General Election 2011

Sparks

Moved to the GE11 sticky...

Sparks

http://irishshootingpolitics.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/labour-policy-on-firearms/

February 15, 2011
Labour policy on firearms

An initial reply was received via Twitter from Labour:

@MarkDennehy Sorry for the delay on this Mark, we should be with you tomorrow.

@MarkDennehy This is our latest statement on Firearms policy. http://labr.ie/e53NtO I’ll forward you a link to the relevant debate shortly.

@MarkDennehy And here, http://labr.ie/glsLZm is the debate where Pat Rabbitte attempted to exempt sporting guns from the legislation.

This seemed promising so I asked if they could answer some more specific questions.

@MarkDennehy Of course. Could you forward your questions to info@labour.ie please? Twitter doesn’t suit detailed answers.

I forwarded on this email:

As discussed on Twitter, I’d like to ask for some further details with respect to your party’s intentions if a Labour TD were appointed as Minister for Justice in the area of the Firearms Act?
For example:

* Would there be plans to increase the current level of regulation or to roll back the current level in order to harmonise our regulations with other EU states?
* Would (s)he be willing to remove centerfire target pistols from the Restricted Firearms list, thus allowing them to be licenced again?
* Would (s)he be willing to deregulate target shooting airguns up to 7.5 Joules of muzzle energy as opposed to the current 1 Joule permitted under the Act in order to promote Olympic target shooting in Ireland?
* Would they address the issues raised by medical associations regarding the application for a firearms licence and its implicit – but deemed insufficient by the GPs – granting of permission to Gardai to access medical records?
* Would they be willing to widen the remit of the Firearms Consultation Panel, to make it a permanent body to facilitate access to technical expertise for the Department and to strengthen communications links between the target shooting sports governing bodies and the Department and the Gardai to ensure the smooth working of the Firearms Act?
* What would they intend to do at a strategic level to alleviate the current problems with licencing which have resulted in nearly 200 cases being taken against Garda Superintendents in the District Courts at great expense to all?

Thank you,

And received this reply today:

Thank you for your message to the Labour Party. Pat Rabbitte our Spokesperson on Justice has asked me to refer you to his Second Stage speech when Bill was going through the Dail.

Whoever is Minister for Justice will have to take professional and Garda advice on the detail of this.

I attach the extract from the Dail Debate on the issue.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/bills28/bills/2009/2909/document1.htm

Yours sincerely,

Dermot Lacey

This was not a very useful answer, and so I responded:

Thank you for your reply Dermot, but I’m afraid that it doesn’t address or answer any of the questions I posed, and Pat Rabbitte’s speech on the Second Stage of the 2009 Act couldn’t address several of the points I was asking about because they didn’t arise at the time.

For example, the current issues with licencing which have led to nearly 200 cases being taken against Garda Superintendents and Chief Superintendents in the District and High Courts, simply were not arising at the time that Pat Rabbitte made that speech.

Also, several of those points require no consultation with professional groups or the Gardai in order to form an opinion on.

For example, making the Firearms Consultation Panel (a panel of representatives from the various shooting governing bodies as well as the Department of Sport, the Department of Justice, the Gardai and other stakeholders such as the IFA) a permanent panel rather than one which would be dissolved following the final commencement of the last parts of the 2006 Act, does not require outside consultation to form a policy on because the decision to extend it or dissolve it is purely a decision made on the basis of how Labour would intend to consult with professional groups and the Gardai should a Labour TD be appointed Minister for Justice, and surely they would already know how they intended to talk to people.

I understand completely that technical proposals in law would entail the seeking of professional and operational advice from various sources; however overall intentions and strategies are not nearly so complex.

I would appreciate it if you could refer the question back to Pat Rabbitte as the current spokesperson for Justice in Labour, and ask him if he could provide a more considered reply. Given that some 200,000 voters hold firearms licences in Ireland at the moment, it would seem to be worth at few more moments of his time, depsite the enormous pressure he’s under with the election campaign at the moment.

I would also like to extend an invitation to the Labour party to discuss the topic on http://shooting.boards.ie with a representative cross-section of the 200,000 licenced firearms holders.

Thank you,

And the reply was:

The previous reply is the considered reply from Pat Rabbitte and that is the current position.
Dermot

I have repeated my request for further consideration to be made; if I receive a response, I’ll post it here.

Cass

Does "You have your answer now please stop bothering me" come to mind?

Good going so far though, keep up the pressure.

It wasn't me!

Considered reply my hairy hole.

Sparks

There's no easy way to contact every candidate - maybe folks could ask similar questions of their local candidates and post the responses here?

Cass

One of the problems and "benefits" of living in the "middle of nowhere". I have yet to have any candidate knock my door. I did manage to broach a local canvassing the town, but when he handed me the leaflet and i actually asked questions i was met with smiles, polite non-answers, and "we'll look into that".

Sparks

I'm actually rather surprised at the Labour answer. FG are currently saying they'll repeal the carted stag hunting ban to get rural votes (and to wave off Gormley who's now talking about a FG/Green government...); you'd think Labour would be only too happy to get a chance to sway the 200,000 or so shooters who're ticked off at filling out 9-page forms and so on...

Sparks

http://irishshootingpolitics.wordpress.com/2011/02/16/kate-bopp-ind-policy-on-firearms/

February 16, 2011
Kate Bopp (Ind, North Tipperary/South Offaly) policy on firearms

Initially, I wanted to get policy statements from Labour and Fine Gael because it seems most likely that the next Minister for Justice will be from one of those two parties and the Minister is one of the most influential factors in how firearms legislation reform progresses. With that done, I will now try to obtain the personal positions of as many candidates as I can. I began with Kate Bopp after some lobbying from Mr.Bopp

Sent by email:

Hi,
As an Olympic target shooter, I’d like to ask for details on your policies and plans with regards to the Firearms Act, the handgun ban and private firearms ownership in Ireland, and to invite you to engage with the target shooting and hunting community on shooting.boards.ie to discuss these matters. With some 200,000 licenced firearms owners in the state, I think such engagement would be appropriate during the election campaign.
Some specific questions would include:

• Have you plans to increase the current level of regulation or to roll back the current level in order to harmonise our regulations with other EU states?
• Would you be willing to remove centerfire target pistols from the Restricted Firearms list, thus allowing them to be licenced again?
• Would you be willing to deregulate target shooting airguns up to 7.5 Joules of muzzle energy as opposed to the current 1 Joule permitted under the Act in order to promote Olympic target shooting in Ireland?
• Would you address the issues raised by medical associations regarding the application for a firearms licence and its implicit – but deemed insufficient by the GPs – granting of permission to Gardai to access medical records?
• Would you be willing to widen the remit of the Firearms Consultation Panel, to make it a permanent body to facilitate access to technical expertise for the Department and to strengthen communications links between the target shooting sports governing bodies and the Department and the Gardai to ensure the smooth working of the Firearms Act?
• What would you intend to do at a strategic level to alleviate the current problems with licencing which have resulted in nearly 200 cases being taken against Garda Superintendents in the District Courts at great expense to all?

Regards,

Received in reply:

Thank you for your email. I gather that Evert asked you to email these questions.
Let me start by saying that I feel very strongly about the right to firearms ownership and that I disagree with the current legislation.
I will however admit that I am no au fait with every detail of the Wildlife Act, Wildlife Acts and other applicable legislation. But I am aware of the impact it is having and intend to campaign for changes to the legislation.
Let me get to your questions;

• I intend to roll back some of the recent changes to the legislation. However as for harmonising regulations with other EU States I am not certain of your question as there is a significant difference in firearms legislation between for instance the UK, Belgium and the Netherlands. I would very much strive for a system based on the premise that everyone should is allowed to own firearms unless a reason can be found why they shouldn’t. This is in contrast to the current system which starts from the assumption that nobody should be allowed to own any type of firearm unless they can provide an acceptable reason why they should. The system implemented in the Netherlands is a good example of one which I would favour.
• Yes, absolutely.
• Yes.
• I would. Medical records should be considered as confidential information and should only be accessible to Gardai (or other government bodies) under very limited circumstances. The processing of firearms application is not sufficient reason.
• Absolutely. A lot of issues in the current legislation and implementation of such is caused by sheer ignorance of the facts. Making the Firearms Consultation Panel a permanent body would combat this. From my experience and (limited) research it is my impression that a lot of issues are caused by incoherent and impractical legislation and the arbitrary implementation of said legislation. A revision of the current legislation which takes the wishes of the shooting & hunting communities in consideration as well as putting less of an onus on the Garda Superintendents would quite likely prevent the need for such legal action.

I hope that this answers your questions but feel free to contact me directly if you have any further questions.

Regards, Kate Bopp.
Independent Candidate for North Tipperary / Offaly South
www.katebopp.com
086/8645099

johngalway

It's a start.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0215/finegaelmanifesto.pdf

5.3 Keeping Communities Vibrant

Rural Activities: Fine Gael will reverse the ban on stag hunting

The only mention I find of "gun" is to do with crime & drugs. See no mention of firearms or a few other search terms, won't have time to read the document until tomorrow evening probably.

Sparks

Started working my way through the FG, Labour and Independent candidates (FF wouldn't be supporters we could count on to lobby anyone, and SF wouldn't exactly be supporters we'd want as doing the opposite of what SF want seems to be a positive thing in Irish politics for the last few decades).

http://irishshootingpolitics.wordpress.com/2011/02/16/john-hyland-ind-policy-on-firearms/

February 16, 2011
John Hyland (Independent, Dublin Central) policy on firearms

Sent by email:

Hi,
As an Olympic target shooter registered to vote in your constituency,
I’d like to ask for details on your policies and plans with regards to
the Firearms Act, the handgun ban and private firearms ownership in Ireland.

Some specific questions on those policies include:

* Have you plans to increase the current level of regulation or to roll back the current level in order to harmonise our regulations with other EU states?
* Would you be willing to remove centerfire target pistols from the Restricted Firearms list, thus allowing them to be licenced again?
* Would you be willing to deregulate target shooting airguns up to 7.5 Joules of muzzle energy as opposed to the current 1 Joule permitted under the Act in order to promote Olympic target shooting in Ireland?
* Would you address the issues raised by medical associations regarding the application for a firearms licence and its implicit – but deemed insufficient by the GPs – granting of permission to Gardai to access medical records?
* Would you be willing to widen the remit of the Firearms Consultation Panel, to make it a permanent body to facilitate access to technical expertise for the Department and to strengthen communications links between the target shooting sports governing bodies and the Department and the Gardai to ensure the smooth working of the Firearms Act?
* What would you intend to do at a strategic level to alleviate the current problems with licencing which have resulted in nearly 200 cases being taken against Garda Superintendents in the District Courts at great expense to all?
* Would you support a restatement of the Firearms Acts in order to address the deep complexity of the law at the present time (with 8 Firearms Acts, several Wildlife and Road Traffic Acts, more then 30 Statutory Instruments and 2 EU directives and their updates all having to be read in conjunction with one another to determine the current laws relating to firearms in Ireland?

I would also like to invite you to engage with the target shooting and
hunting community on http://shooting.boards.ie to discuss these matters.
With some 200,000 licenced firearms owners in the state, I think such
engagement would be appropriate during the election campaign.

Regards,

Received by reply:

Hi Mark,
I have no problem with registered guns.
Its the unregistered guns which cause crime.
“When you take away all the registered guns, only the criminals will have guns”

Sparks

http://irishshootingpolitics.wordpress.com/2011/02/16/paschal-donohoe-fg-dublin-central-policy-on-firearms/

February 16, 2011
Paschal Donohoe (FG, Dublin Central) policy on firearms

Sent by email:

Hi,
As an Olympic target shooter registered to vote in your constituency,
I’d like to ask for details on your policies and plans with regards to
the Firearms Act, the handgun ban and private firearms ownership in Ireland.

Some specific questions on those policies include:

* Have you plans to increase the current level of regulation or to roll back the current level in order to harmonise our regulations with other EU states?
* Would you be willing to remove centerfire target pistols from the Restricted Firearms list, thus allowing them to be licenced again?
* Would you be willing to deregulate target shooting airguns up to 7.5 Joules of muzzle energy as opposed to the current 1 Joule permitted under the Act in order to promote Olympic target shooting in Ireland?
* Would you address the issues raised by medical associations regarding the application for a firearms licence and its implicit – but deemed insufficient by the GPs – granting of permission to Gardai to access medical records?
* Would you be willing to widen the remit of the Firearms Consultation Panel, to make it a permanent body to facilitate access to technical expertise for the Department and to strengthen communications links between the target shooting sports governing bodies and the Department and the Gardai to ensure the smooth working of the Firearms Act?
* What would you intend to do at a strategic level to alleviate the current problems with licencing which have resulted in nearly 200 cases being taken against Garda Superintendents in the District Courts at great expense to all?
* Would you support a restatement of the Firearms Acts in order to address the deep complexity of the law at the present time (with 8 Firearms Acts, several Wildlife and Road Traffic Acts, more then 30 Statutory Instruments and 2 EU directives and their updates all having to be read in conjunction with one another to determine the current laws relating to firearms in Ireland?

I would also like to invite you to engage with the target shooting and
hunting community on http://shooting.boards.ie to discuss these matters.
With some 200,000 licenced firearms owners in the state, I think such
engagement would be appropriate during the election campaign.

Regards,

Initially received by email:

Mark,
Thank you for contacting me about an issue of concern to you. I wanted to drop you a quick message to acknowledge your mail and to say I’ll respond to you in more detail shortly. Kind Regards,
Paschal
——————————-
Paschal Donohoe
Fine Gael Senator – Dublin Central
Phone – 01 6183689
Web – www.paschaldonohoe.ie
Twitter – www.twitter.com/paschald
Facebook – www.facebook.com/paschal.donohoe

Later received by email:

Dear Mark

Thanks for your email.

Fine Gael has not outlined any plans to change the law regarding firearms in its election manifesto and I am not aware that any party has done so. While I appreciate your view that a discussion on this would be worthwhile, I actually think it would be better to take place outside the heat of an election so that all the issues can be considered properly.

I would be happy to meet with you following the election to hear your thoughts.

Regards,
Paschal
——————————-
Paschal Donohoe
Fine Gael Senator – Dublin Central
Phone – 01 6183689
Web – www.paschaldonohoe.ie
Twitter – www.twitter.com/paschald
Facebook – www.facebook.com/paschal.donohoe

Sparks

http://irishshootingpolitics.wordpress.com/2011/02/16/maureen-osullivan-ind-dublin-central-policy-on-firearms/

February 16, 2011
Maureen O’Sullivan (Ind, Dublin Central) policy on firearms

Sent by email:

Hi,
As an Olympic target shooter registered to vote in your constituency, I’d like to ask for details on your policies and plans with regards to the Firearms Act, the handgun ban and private firearms ownership in Ireland.

Some specific questions on those policies include:

* Have you plans to increase the current level of regulation or to roll back the current level in order to harmonise our regulations with other EU states?
* Would you be willing to remove centerfire target pistols from the Restricted Firearms list, thus allowing them to be licenced again?
* Would you be willing to deregulate target shooting airguns up to 7.5 Joules of muzzle energy as opposed to the current 1 Joule permitted under the Act in order to promote Olympic target shooting in Ireland?
* Would you address the issues raised by medical associations regarding the application for a firearms licence and its implicit – but deemed insufficient by the GPs – granting of permission to Gardai to access medical records?
* Would you be willing to widen the remit of the Firearms Consultation Panel, to make it a permanent body to facilitate access to technical expertise for the Department and to strengthen communications links between the target shooting sports governing bodies and the Department and the Gardai to ensure the smooth working of the Firearms Act?
* What would you intend to do at a strategic level to alleviate the current problems with licencing which have resulted in nearly 200 cases being taken against Garda Superintendents in the District Courts at great expense to all?
* Would you support a restatement of the Firearms Acts in order to address the deep complexity of the law at the present time (with 8 Firearms Acts, several Wildlife and Road Traffic Acts, more then 30 Statutory Instruments and 2 EU directives and their updates all having to be read in conjunction with one another to determine the current laws relating to firearms in Ireland?

I would also like to invite you to engage with the target shooting and hunting community on http://shooting.boards.ie to discuss these matters. With some 200,000 licenced firearms owners in the state, I think such engagement would be appropriate during the election campaign.

Regards,

Received in reply:

Mark;
I do not know enough about the subject so I don’t want to try reply to your questions without any real understanding of the issue. I does sound from your e mail that there are serious aspects to the matter. Obviously if you are training for the Olympics, every support should be provided.
Regards,
Maureen O’Sullivan

paul1972

the state and the main political parties seem to feel that we cannot be trusted with certain types of firearms ect despite their being no evidence to support this stance
but then expect us to trust them without question despite all that has come to light over recent years i used to think this was a republic
of late its begining to look more like a dictatorship

Grizzly 45

Sparks,
Can we use your email or a modifed version,to email other canditates outside the Pale??

Sparks

Sure, go for it. Here's the text file.

Sparks

http://irishshootingpolitics.wordpress.com/2011/02/18/fis-nua-policy-on-firearms/

February 18, 2011
Fis Nua policy on firearms

Sent by email:

Hi,
As an Olympic target shooter registered to vote in your constituency, I’d like to ask for details on your policies and plans with regards to the Firearms Act, the handgun ban and private firearms ownership in Ireland.

Some specific questions on those policies include:

* Have you plans to increase the current level of regulation or to roll back the current level in order to harmonise our regulations with other EU states?
* Would you be willing to remove centerfire target pistols from the Restricted Firearms list, thus allowing them to be licenced again?
* Would you be willing to deregulate target shooting airguns up to 7.5 Joules of muzzle energy as opposed to the current 1 Joule permitted under the Act in order to promote Olympic target shooting in Ireland?
* Would you address the issues raised by medical associations regarding the application for a firearms licence and its implicit – but deemed insufficient by the GPs – granting of permission to Gardai to access medical records?
* Would you be willing to widen the remit of the Firearms Consultation Panel, to make it a permanent body to facilitate access to technical expertise for the Department and to strengthen communications links between the target shooting sports governing bodies and the Department and the Gardai to ensure the smooth working of the Firearms Act?
* What would you intend to do at a strategic level to alleviate the current problems with licencing which have resulted in nearly 200 cases being taken against Garda Superintendents in the District Courts at great expense to all?
* Would you support a restatement of the Firearms Acts in order to address the deep complexity of the law at the present time (with 8 Firearms Acts, several Wildlife and Road Traffic Acts, more then 30 Statutory Instruments and 2 EU directives and their updates all having to be read in conjunction with one another to determine the current laws relating to firearms in Ireland?

I would also like to invite you to engage with the target shooting and hunting community on http://shooting.boards.ie to discuss these matters. With some 200,000 licenced firearms owners in the state, I think such engagement would be appropriate during the election campaign.

Regards,

Received in reply:

Thank you for your email and interest in the policies of Fís Nua.

As you can appreciate, our party candidates (having overcome the restrictions imposed upon us in entering this election) are concentrating on the main economic and political reforms that are essential to be implemented in order to secure a future for this nation.

While matters such as yours require proper attention and debate, part of Fís Nua’s political reform is to implement community councils at which such policy can be discussed by all concerned, subsequently then directing councils and politicans on how to vote on the matter, without having to wait every election to have your voice heard.

We trust that you will continue to support us in implementing these necessary reforms in order for us to create a proper democratic society and to assist us to this end by getting our message of reform out there.

Thank you for your time in bringing this matter to our attention.

Regards,

Rosahane

In response to a question on the Pat Kenny show Gilmore has just stated, clearly, without waffle or hedging the answer that Labour will NOT reverse the Stag Hunting ban in Government :eek:

I expect that this reflects general Labour policy towards Fieldsports and shooting :mad:

Hondata92

Sparks wrote: »

http://irishshootingpolitics.wordpress.com/2011/02/16/maureen-osullivan-ind-dublin-central-policy-on-firearms/

Maureen O’Sullivan TD/President of ICABS

johngalway

Rosahane wrote: »

In response to a question on the Pat Kenny show Gilmore has just stated, clearly, without waffle or hedging the answer that Labour will NOT reverse the Stag Hunting ban in Government :eek:

I expect that this reflects general Labour policy towards Fieldsports and shooting :mad:

Just saw the very same reported elsewhere on Boards, didn't hear the programme myself. I had planned to give Labour my 4th preference to try to keep Catherine Connolly out in GW, they're not getting it now.

Sparks

Making the rounds by email:

LABOUR PARTY IS NO FRIEND OF HUNTING!

The Labour Party has set itself unambiguously against hunting and will act against the interests of fieldsports if in government. As all fieldsports enthusiasts will know already, Fine Gael has agreed to support all countrysports and to repeal the legislation brought in by the Green Party to ban the Ward Union Hunt. On the Pat Kenny radio show on RTE today, February 18th, Eamon Gilmore was asked "Fine Gael have given a commitment in their manifesto to repeal the ban on stag hunting. Mr. Gilmore this was hard won and I want to know if in government with Fine Gael will you repeal it?” His reply was “NO I will not”.

He also accepted the animal rights terminology of calling the release and recapture of the stag unharmed by the Ward Union as a bloodsport.

To a query from another hunting supporter regarding the Labour Party’s position on fieldsports the following reply came back: “Further to your query to Kathleen Lynch's office, The Labour Party supports the maintenance of the current strict licensing system for hunting and field sports.

Yours sincerely

Michael Mc Loughlin
Labour Queries Team”

Labour party candidates around the country have started to go the way of the Green Party position on hunting and animal rights generally. It is now becoming abundantly clear that a vote for Labour will be tantamount to putting a party in government which is no friend of fieldsports and country pursuits. The only way hunting, shooting and other countrysports people can secure their way of life is to give Fine Gael an overall majority. We urge all 300,000 fieldsports people to get in touch with their Fine Gael candidates and let them know how much we appreciate their support and get in touch with Labour candidates and let them know that they are now alienating rural people and will pay the price on polling day. There is no better opportunity than now to determine the future of your chosen sport.

Other news on this front:
The Greens have published their intentions as regards animal rights and fieldsports in their Election Manifesto. They include:

1. Pass into law the Animal Health and Welfare Bill, which outlaws fur farming and the culling of badgers.
2. Examine the possibilities of alternatives to live animal exports from Ireland.
3. Make it a requirement for all retail outlets to label animal derived material such as fur and/or leather, regardless of the percentage of fur and/or leather in the items.
4. Prohibit the trade in animal fur products.
5. Implement legislation to end the importation of and trade in exotic species.
6. Introduce legislation to ban hare coursing.
7. Make the hunting of animals with hounds an offence under law.
8. Replace the culling of badgers with more effective and humane methods of control.
9. End the use of exotic animals in circuses in the long term. In the short term issue a Ministerial Directive to all Local Authorities prohibiting them from providing land to circuses that use exotic animals in their acts.

There can be no doubt but that the Green Party wishes to destroy everything we hold dear as fieldsports enthusiasts.

Des Crofton
National Director
NARGC
18/2/2011

TippFan77

Rosahane wrote: »

In response to a question on the Pat Kenny show Gilmore has just stated, clearly, without waffle or hedging the answer that Labour will NOT reverse the Stag Hunting ban in Government :eek:

I expect that this reflects general Labour policy towards Fieldsports and shooting :mad:

Guys...there's no threat to shooting or fishing, and I say this as someone who takes a different view of carted stag hunting and hare coursing. Labour is no more against shooting or fishing than the Greens have been.

I'm open to correction on this, but I don't think any country has ever banned either shooting or fishing on animal welfare grounds...but hare coursing has gone in lots of places. NI banned the carted stag hunt a few years ago and has more recently banned hare coursing.

I know people who shoot, and I wouldn't insult them by bracketing them in with coursing or staghunt followers.

TippFan77

Sparks wrote: »

Making the rounds by email:

NARGC does great work with gun clubs, conservation etc but it really ought to stay well clear of stag hunting and hare coursing. These are not legitimate sports and are earmarked for banning...sooner or later. NARGC's image could suffer if it gets too close to activities that reflect badly on the Association's work and ethos.

It's important to distinguish between shooting and fishing and "sports" such badger baiting, otter hunting, staghunting and hare coursing.

To muddy the waters and five the impression that NARGC somehow backs something like hare coursing is ill-advised in the extreme...

paul1972

TippFan77 wrote: »

NARGC does great work with gun clubs, conservation etc but it really ought to stay well clear of stag hunting and hare coursing. These are not legitimate sports and are earmarked for banning...sooner or later. NARGC's image could suffer if it gets too close to activities that reflect badly on the Association's work and ethos.

It's important to distinguish between shooting and fishing and "sports" such badger baiting, otter hunting, staghunting and hare coursing.

To muddy the waters and five the impression that NARGC somehow backs something like hare coursing is ill-advised in the extreme...

and next i imagine it will be important to distinguish between target shooting and hunting game ect
and how did badger baiting come into this i dont ever remember the NARGC supporting it
i belive the NARGC have taken this stance because they realise that if all branches of field and shooting sports do not stand together they will all be destroyed one by one
and to be honest i wonder how you would react if something you practised all your life and were deeply intrested in were banned by a bunch of apes who know nothing of the country side and its workings
while i dont take part in any of the activities you mentioned or even like them i dont feel i have the right to tell others how to live their lives
why dont they address some real issues affecting wild animals like the setting free of none native species like mink by your green friends
the loss of habitat ect ect
hunters care more for and understand the anmials they hunt far better than the greens and labour ever will

Rosahane

TippFan77 wrote: »

NARGC does great work with gun clubs, conservation etc but it really ought to stay well clear of stag hunting and hare coursing. These are not legitimate sports and are earmarked for banning...sooner or later. NARGC's image could suffer if it gets too close to activities that reflect badly on the Association's work and ethos.

It's important to distinguish between shooting and fishing and "sports" such badger baiting, otter hunting, staghunting and hare coursing.

To muddy the waters and five the impression that NARGC somehow backs something like hare coursing is ill-advised in the extreme...

A quick scan of your previous posts show you are primarily actively opposed to Hare Coursing and are absolutely anti Fieldsports. Indeed you have supported ICABS activists Aideen Yourell, John Tierney, and John Fitzgerald.

So, thank you for your contribution, we are well aware of the Anti's arguements and I at least have no wish to engage in a pointless trolling debate. Goodbye!

bunny shooter

TippFan77 wrote: »

NARGC does great work with gun clubs, conservation etc but it really ought to stay well clear of stag hunting and hare coursing. These are not legitimate sports and are earmarked for banning...sooner or later. NARGC's image could suffer if it gets too close to activities that reflect badly on the Association's work and ethos.

It's important to distinguish between shooting and fishing and "sports" such badger baiting, otter hunting, staghunting and hare coursing.

To muddy the waters and five the impression that NARGC somehow backs something like hare coursing is ill-advised in the extreme...

Badger baiting & otter hunting are illegal and there are sufficient punishments in the legislation for those prosecuted and convicted

Most Greenies/anti's think we hunters/country people are all mindless thugs and moronic killers BUT that is your first mistake. Your second was the recent stag hunting ban. That legislation has done more to unite all the various LEGAL country sports than we could ever have done on our own

I will be strongly voting FG. Labour as a result of the revelations here have cost themselves any vote from me.

Sparks

http://irishshootingpolitics.wordpress.com/2011/02/19/more-information-on-labours-policies-on-firearms/

February 19, 2011
More information on Labour’s policies on firearms

After the initial dialogue with them, subsequent (and frankly, very disappointing) dialogue with Labour:



Thank you Demot. I’m sorry to say that I consider it a disappointing answer; a speech given two years ago in relation to a specific piece of legislation and a statement that no policy would be commented on without seeking professional advice is not the statement of the basic principles Labour would use when deciding on policy that I was hoping for.

I know that at present, none of the 200,000 licenced firearms holders in the state is likely to vote for a Green Party or Fianna Fail candidate; however, the choice between Fine Gael, Labour and Independent candidates, especially in rural constituencies, is one that clear support for sensible legislation in this area could swing in Labour’s favour – many of the 200,000 licenced firearms holders are farmers living in rural areas, and many of those who are not farmers also live in rural areas. Fine Gael’s stated policy on this is to leave the current legislation in place (a policy which few in the community would feel was fair or just or even effective) – surely this would be an opportunity for Labour to convince more undecided voters in rural constituencies to vote Labour?

Regards,

This was not responded to. Following some parallel discussions, the following was sent:

Some of us target shooters spoke with Charlie Flanagan of Fine Gael on the topic of firearms legislation in more detail yesterday. He was completely against alot of the policies enacted by Dermot Ahern. He committed to meet with us and discuss the finer points at length, and on specific details said he would like to see the issues around the muzzle energy limit for air rifles and other similar minor issues changed to encourage and expand the international and Olympic end of the sport. He also said that he met a few times with the Firearms Consultation Panel, representatives from clubs such as Hilltop and the MNSCI, and would like to see the Firearms Consultation Panel made a permanent feature in any future legislation drafting. He said in relation to the centerfire handgun ban that while he is fully aware that no legally held firearms have been used and admits that Minister Ahern targeted respectable shooters and not criminals in his efforts, that he would for the immediate future revert to the Garda Commissioner on certain matters, but agreed to a full review.

In light of this, could you please ask Pat Rabbitte to review his position on this matter?

Thank you,

In response:

I really do not have any more to add to what we have already sent.

Pondering whether or not it was understood how large the demographic involved was, this was sent:

Dermot, there are 200,000 licenced firearms holders in the state. We worked before with Labour (both Brendan Howlin in 2006 and Pat Rabbitte in 2009) to good effect, now we’re looking for a committment from Labour to continue that work and fix broken legislation and you basicly haven’t given it — but Fine Gael have. Who would you advise us to vote for?

And this was received:

There is a commitment to work with stakeholders on the issues. I just cannot confirm an outcome at this stage.

At this point I thought there might have been a miscommunication earlier, so I sought to clarify:

Dermot, I didn’t see any commitment in our email exchange – all you sent was that whomever the Minister was would have to take professional advice and Garda advice and you referred me to a two-year-old speech that didn’t cover (and couldn’t cover) recent issues. There was no commitment and you didn’t lay out what Labour’s principles were on firearms policy.

Look, right now what we’ve been given a commitment on by Fine Gael is:

• to meet with the shooting community (via the Firearms Consultation Panel) and discuss the finer points at length
• to see the Firearms Consultation Panel made a permanent feature in any future legislation drafting.
• to fully review the centerfire handgun ban.

And we had a statement that in principle, they would like to see the minor changes we sought to expand Olympic air rifle shooting.

Can Labour give the same committment and can Labour agree to that same statement?

No response was received to this prior to the release of this document from the NARGC, so this was sent to obtain a response on that document:

Dermot, reminding you first of all that there are some 200,000 licenced firearms holders in Ireland and some 600,000 involved in fieldsports in Ireland, could you please respond to the email below and to the attached document (which was released today by the National Association of Regional Game Councils) please?

The responses will go up on http://guns.ie and http://shooting.boards.ie (which is the discussion forum used by target shooters and hunters in Ireland).

Thank you,

And this was the sole response:

We have responded to this before.

Based on this, it seems that on target shooting issues at least, Labour cannot be recommended as a first choice for shooters, and Fine Gael would seem the more logical choice; at least based on election manifestos.

cavan shooter

I note that labour have came out and stated their position on hunting and shooting, They wont revoke the ban on the Ward that they agree with the ICABS that its a bloodsport. The also believe in more licensing regarding Firearms and tighter control regarding field sports, see below

http://www.greyhound-data.com/knowledge.php?b=9&note=689198

It wasn't me!

Sparks has been in direct contact regarding their policies on firearms licensing (A lot of it is target-shooting stuff, but it's still broadly significant). The details are in the GE 2011 thread on the main forum. It makes for stark reading.

cavan shooter

I note that labour have came out and stated their position on hunting and shooting, They wont ban revoke the ban on the Ward that they agree with the ICABS that its a bloodsport. The also believe in more licensing regarding Firearms and tighter control regarding field sports

http://www.greyhound-data.com/knowledge.php?b=9&note=689198

vixdname

Thanks or that post cavan shooter - its made up my mind finally for polling day