Parents cant agree on where child sleeps

Retail Hell

whatcanido wrote: »

OP here.
Thanks to those for the constructive opinions.
We do have sex, just wait untill the child is in playschool or go to the spare room if the child is in bed.

The child is a good sleeper once she falls asleep, I would tend to agree with the posters that think its time for the child to move to her own room.

The problem for me is my wife has a different opinion and at this moment in time is determined to continue until the child decides to move. As one previous poster said sometimes children have to be coaxed at different stages, I believe that myself. My gut feeling is there is no sign of the child volunteering herself to move so I don't see anything changing in the near future.

Time for the tail to stop wagging the dog

ArtSmart

The issue here is the difference in opinions as much as the issue itself.

i'm assuming this is the first child, hence the difficulty in separation


it may be true that different approaches work for different families, but here there is clear disagreement between husband and wife.

is it possible to bring another positive voice into the equation to offer perspective to your wife - a sister/ mother/ female friend? and for you other fathers?

the unwillingness of your wife to discuss the matter, as i'm picking up, is really the issue and a trusted peer or person giving their views/ experience may offer the best solution.

re: your concern for the welfare of the child, i'd say you've nothing to worry about on that score - i know of no study which indicates that this situation would have a detrimental effect on a child of that age or a year older.

Re: the child deciding to move themselves - unlikely, as she'll take her cues, both overt and covert, from her mother .

ETA. above all move gently, give yourself a 6 months time frame (which isnt set in stone), be clear and consistent in how you approach this and bare in mind - the current situation will have no major detrimental effect on the child, so you have time to resolve the prob

wolfpawnat

whatcanido wrote: »

OP here again.
Thanks for all your replies, there were some really good suggestions we may be able to use.
In reply, my wife has done a great job with the child. She is a strong believer in benefits of breast feeding and I have to say I agree it is natural and the best start for any child.

One issue I now have is the child is showing signs of trauma from detachment from her parents. One example when were all together the child tends to want to stay close to her mum u=instead of dad and doesn't respond to my questions or comments.

Another example is in a activity group she is part of for about 2 years, she has began to insist on staying in parents arms and not joinging the other children who are content to join in the activites with the instuctors. The child would know the instuctors from seeing them every week, but has cried a couple of times when being left without her parents.

It is a side effect of this method of child rearing, and your wife (though I have no doubt she is doing it with love) is not helping because she makes sure to keep your daughter in her arms because she doesn't want her crying (what good parent wants to have their child crying). May I suggest a close friend/family member who has children to come to a neutral venue with ye and when she starts to cry, do not give in, since it is a friend/family you do not need to feel embarrassed then. She will learn that she cannot always get what she wants and you and mummy can go to these events and she won't stay in your arms

Mothman

I'm flying in the face of most opinion here, but for me goingforward has summed it up nicely in post 26

We as a family have a family bed, daughter breastfed and stayed in the bed till she was well into 7th year. She did have her own room and when she decided to quit BF and move out she went and slept outside for a week!! She had been clingy a lot during her first 6 years but now she is extremely independent and confident. She is also shy, just taking after her dad;) but she is dealing with this way better than I ever did. The breastfeeding in latter years is for comfort rather than for nutrition.

My son of 5 is still in bed. He also has own room and has slept in it a few times, but he's not ready yet to move out full time.

So as a parenting method, I don't see any issue and for me I am seeing the fruits of what we did and it was right for us.

I never believed for a moment, both from what I read or my own common sense that they would stay in bed indefinitely. About the age of 7 was my expectation and this is what has come to pass.

OP, I see an issue of a difference of expectations between yourself and your wife and I feel it is something that you both need to discuss so that you can each try to understand each others thoughts.

CiaranC

Mothman wrote: »

We as a family have a family bed, daughter breastfed and stayed in the bed till she was well into 7th year.

Wow.

goingforward

wolfpawnat wrote: »

And as regards the child being smarter, could you back that up please, I cannot see how that could be and believe that if it was the best for the child the WHO would have it as recommended practise. One doctor every so often can buck a trend but it doesn't make them right.

The WHO recommend breastfeeding (along with other food) until at least 2 years of age and beyond.

http://www.who.int/topics/breastfeeding/en/


The intellectual advantage gained from breastfeeding is greater the longer the baby is breastfed.

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/2/t020200.asp

Children 'should sleep with parents until they're five
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1083020.ece

Penny Dreadful

goingforward wrote: »

The WHO recommend breastfeeding (along with other food) until at least 2 years of age and beyond.

http://www.who.int/topics/breastfeeding/en/


The intellectual advantage gained from breastfeeding is greater the longer the baby is breastfed.

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/2/t020200.asp

Children 'should sleep with parents until they're five
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1083020.ece

Not one of my siblings or myself were breast fed and we are all very intelligent and did excellently at school and university. We are all strong minded individual people who were not at all clingy with my parents and we slept in our own bedrooms from the minute we came home from hospital after birth. I know many many families that did the above too and their children are in no way lacking because they weren't breast fed and slept on their own from the word go.

Different things work for different people and for some it is working out well to have their children with them for a long time. However, as others have said, both parents need to be in agreement as to their parenting techniques and methods and the OP and his wife obviously aren't, that seems to be the problem more so than extended breast feeding and extended co sleeping.

goingforward

whatcanido wrote: »

OP here again.
Thanks for all your replies, there were some really good suggestions we may be able to use.
In reply, my wife has done a great job with the child. She is a strong believer in benefits of breast feeding and I have to say I agree it is natural and the best start for any child.

One issue I now have is the child is showing signs of trauma from detachment from her parents. One example when were all together the child tends to want to stay close to her mum u=instead of dad and doesn't respond to my questions or comments.

Another example is in a activity group she is part of for about 2 years, she has began to insist on staying in parents arms and not joinging the other children who are content to join in the activites with the instuctors. The child would know the instuctors from seeing them every week, but has cried a couple of times when being left without her parents.

OP this sounds perfectly normal to me. Your daughter is still very young and small. The world can seem very big and frightening at this age.

http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/jane_mcconnell.html

Some fear that attachment parenting will create dependent, clingy children. Attachment proponents claim the opposite is true: "Attached children may be dependent longer, but because the dependency phase is completely fulfilled, the child can grow into an independent, secure adult," Aldort says. Further, proponents argue that each developmental stage, such as toilet learning, or weaning from the breast or bed, will be naturally achieved when the child is ready, and not according to an arbitrary, culturally determined timetable.

From my own experience my first son came into our bed every night until he was about 4.5 years and then he just stopped. He still sleeps in the same room as us but will move soon to his own room. I expect he will come back occassionally if he's scared or sick etc. He was also very shy and clingy and refused to go to pre school. We didn't push it and he started school at 5 with very little bother and loves it. His teacher told me he's very enthausiatic about joining in with everything and she thinks he's a great kid. I'm sure our parenting helped him develop his confidence and independance whch is also hugely age related.

There are many books on the subject backed up by numerous studies.

cynder

whatcanido wrote: »

OP here again.
Thanks for all your replies, there were some really good suggestions we may be able to use.
In reply, my wife has done a great job with the child. She is a strong believer in benefits of breast feeding and I have to say I agree it is natural and the best start for any child.

One issue I now have is the child is showing signs of trauma from detachment from her parents. One example when were all together the child tends to want to stay close to her mum u=instead of dad and doesn't respond to my questions or comments.

Another example is in a activity group she is part of for about 2 years, she has began to insist on staying in parents arms and not joinging the other children who are content to join in the activites with the instuctors. The child would know the instuctors from seeing them every week, but has cried a couple of times when being left without her parents.

Is there a bit of jealousy going on, or do do feel resentful of the mother and child bond?

I see the above a normal (in my house anyway). Many children do have a closer bond with their moms and sometimes a dad has to work a little harder at building a their own bond with the child.

I would suggest you try a bit of father and daughter time with out mom being around. Cinema, shopping, indoor or out door play area, walk in the forest ect.

I know all my kids cried every time i left the house without them it was heart breaking, but now i can leave and i get a wave good bye (no tears).

How Strange

There was a thread recently about conforming to the norms in terms of parenting and how parents who ignore the norms are criticised. I think there's a bit of this going on here.

I agree with Das Kitty that the nub of the problem seems to be a lack of communication with op and his wife. They aren't on the same page as regards parenting their child.

I don't think co sleeping at 4 or breastfeeding will have any adverse effects on the child. She will stop both when she decides and that will probably coincide with starting school. I've seen kids of very protective and nervous parents who cried if you said boo to them and they all turned out to be fantastic older kids/adults.

I was ferociously clingly to my mam as a child. If she went anywhere I'd cry til she came home even if that was the next day. I think most of my family would consider me very independent and self reliant now as an adult.

The op clearly resents his wifes parenting style which is understandable as she's going solo on it and not involving him. That's what they need to thrash out but I personally don't believe what she's will have long term effects emotionally or otherwise on the child.

amiable

Hi OP, I'd imagine your partner doesn't seem to have a timeframe to move your child out
of the room which in itself seems to be a problem.
What is your hunch on her feelings OP as to why she won't move your child out of the room?
Sometimes deep down we know ourselves why our partner does things imo.
I can't offer any brilliant radical advice only i do think you need to talk to your partner somehow.
You do need to engage her someway.
Good Luck OP

Penny Dreadful

grindelwald wrote: »

Is there a bit of jealousy going on, or do do feel resentful of the mother and child bond?

I see the above a normal (in my house anyway). Many children do have a closer bond with their moms and sometimes a dad has to work a little harder at building a their own bond with the child.

I would suggest you try a bit of father and daughter time with out mom being around. Cinema, shopping, indoor or out door play area, walk in the forest ect.

I know all my kids cried every time i left the house without them it was heart breaking, but now i can leave and i get a wave good bye (no tears).

Really? See I think that (and I am not being judgemental about you as a parent so please don't get the wrong end of the stick here) kind of behaviour from children would be worrying. It would tell me that they hadn't learned to deal with their separation anxiety and understood that you will be coming back. Its one thing for a young child (i.e. a young toddler/wobbler) to fear that when you go you won't be back but that should end pretty quickly I would have though.
To me, if co sleeping created and fueled such a fear it would be reason enough to stop it. It would also seem to contradict the supposed confidence boot of co sleeping past infanthood.

goingforward

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

Really? See I think that (and I am not being judgemental about you as a parent so please don't get the wrong end of the stick here) kind of behaviour from children would be worrying. It would tell me that they hadn't learned to deal with their separation anxiety and understood that you will be coming back. Its one thing for a young child (i.e. a young toddler/wobbler) to fear that when you go you won't be back but that should end pretty quickly I would have though.
To me, if co sleeping created and fueled such a fear it would be reason enough to stop it. It would also seem to contradict the supposed confidence boot of co sleeping past infanthood.

I'm sorry but I completely disagree.

Co-sleeping does not create fear it reassures children that they are safe and loved during the night which is a naturally scary time for all children. If you force a child to be "independant" before they are ready they will just shut down, most likely become depressed and insecure.

Also your experience of not being breastfed does not outweigh all of the scientific evidence that is now available. It's a bit like a smoker telling us we should feel free to light up because there's nothing wrong with them.

OP, I am not suggesting that you are trying to force your daughter into moving from your room, there are some very good gentle suggestions of helping your child move if you are all happy for her to do so. I am trying to show that if you all decide you're happy to co-sleep that it is not so unusual these days and can have benefits.

denballs

If i was you id be more concerned about why you are so afraid of the childs mother.....<SNIP> put your foot down, she obviously is by refusing to even discuss it.If i was you id buy the child a new bed or even move her current bed into a different room and make the room as nice as you can, put lots of toys and a tv etc in the room while the mother is out and when she gets home just Tell {not ask or state and wait for a response i literally mean tell} her you have sorted her out a nice room so she,ll be sleeping there tonight.....if the mother says anything like, no the child is sleeping in your room, then you ask why woud the chid sleep in your room when the child has her own room, this means she either has to debate the matter or agree with you.

P.S.......i would suggest getting somthing like this as the child should really like it and can play in it and get used to it even during the day

cynder

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

Really? See I think that (and I am not being judgemental about you as a parent so please don't get the wrong end of the stick here) kind of behaviour from children would be worrying. It would tell me that they hadn't learned to deal with their separation anxiety and understood that you will be coming back. Its one thing for a young child (i.e. a young toddler/wobbler) to fear that when you go you won't be back but that should end pretty quickly I would have though.
To me, if co sleeping created and fueled such a fear it would be reason enough to stop it. It would also seem to contradict the supposed confidence boot of co sleeping past infanthood.

But you see my 1st slept in bed with me every night till she was almost 6, and had separation issues until she as almost 5 (she is 11 now)

My 2nd was in his own room at 6 months he spent time in my bed before that but only here and there. Used to cry every time i left up until he was about 3 - 3 3/4

My 3rd (well we will call him the bed hopper) he sometimes needs me to sleep with him now (turned 4 in December) and sometimes he doesn't. His referred to as a bed hopper because sometimes he ends up in bed with the 11 year old and sometimes his in bed with his brother (age 5) and sometimes he comes into my room and i leave and sleep in his bed as its crowded with the 3 of us ( i leave him in bed with his dad) and sometimes i go into his bed and sleep with him, and sometimes he sleeps on his own which is getting more and more often and for the last 18 months he hasn't cried when Ive left the house, he has only cried a couple of times when i have left him at preschool because his not in form to go that day (he has issues possible asd/adhd).


3 very different children.

cynder

denballs wrote: »

If i was you id be more concerned about why you are so afraid of the childs mother.....<SNIP> put your foot down, she obviously is by refusing to even discuss it.If i was you id buy the child a new bed or even move her current bed into a different room and make the room as nice as you can, put lots of toys and a tv etc in the room while the mother is out and when she gets home just Tell {not ask or state and wait for a response i literally mean tell} her you have sorted her out a nice room so she,ll be sleeping there tonight.....if the mother says anything like, no the child is sleeping in your room, then you ask why woud the chid sleep in your room when the child has her own room, this means she either has to debate the matter or agree with you.

P.S.......i would suggest getting somthing like this as the child should really like it and can play in it and get used to it even during the day

Easier said then done, you try listening to a child crying for its mom for hours on end. It would break the mothers heart.

She has at least got the child its own bed in the bedroom so she has made the first step ( the child is not in the bed anymore). The next step is to move that bed into her own room. When should she do that? well that's the million dollar question. Each family is different one size dose not fit all.
The woman obviously loves her daughter and the daughter obviously loves her mother.

The daughter needs a little help to spread her wings criticising the mother wont help, support, encouragement and baby steps.

Das Kitty

This is a reminder to all posters to maintain a civil tone when posting in the Parenting forum and sub-forums.

No one style of parenting is the correct one, different things work for different families, please keep this in mind when posting.

/mod

Penny Dreadful

goingforward wrote: »

I'm sorry but I completely disagree.

Co-sleeping does not create fear it reassures children that they are safe and loved during the night which is a naturally scary time for all children. If you force a child to be "independant" before they are ready they will just shut down, most likely become depressed and insecure.

Also your experience of not being breastfed does not outweigh all of the scientific evidence that is now available. It's a bit like a smoker telling us we should feel free to light up because there's nothing wrong with them.

OP, I am not suggesting that you are trying to force your daughter into moving from your room, there are some very good gentle suggestions of helping your child move if you are all happy for her to do so. I am trying to show that if you all decide you're happy to co-sleep that it is not so unusual these days and can have benefits.

There is clear cut scientific evidence that tells us all that not smoking is beneficial where as smoking may well kill you and will lessen your quality of life in many ways not only through illness. Not breastfeeding your child has not been scientifically proven to make them more prone to ill health, lacking in intelligence etc. My sisters breastfed each of their 6 children and 6 of the 6 have asthma (one very badly), eczema and various other allergies. So it worked half and half in that way, intellect wise, well time will tell but that have all hit their markers etc on a par with all other children breast fed or not.
This thread is not about whether to breast feed or not so I don't want to hijack it in that way but I had to speak up against the idea that by not breast feeding your child strictly according to the guidelines issued by the WHO does not make you a bad parent...............in much the same way that giving your child their own bedroom to sleep in and expecting them to do so does not make you a bad parent.
Whatever works for a family works for them and its no concern of mine whether they co sleep into the teens and breast feed forever or not at all but in this case the OP is not in agreement about what is happening and he should have a say in that. The child has two parents not just their mother and the father should get an equal say in how that child is brought up. This doesn't make him a jealous person or anything like, it makes him a man who wants to sleep on his own with his wife, wants their child to be a little more independent, etc etc.

Penny Dreadful

grindelwald wrote: »

But you see my 1st slept in bed with me every night till she was almost 6, and had separation issues until she as almost 5

My 2nd was in his own room at 6 months he spent time in my bed before that but only here and there. Used to cry every time i left up until he was about 3 - 3 3/4

My 3rd (well we will call him the bed hopper) he sometimes needs me to sleep with him now (turned 4 in December) and sometimes he doesn't. His referred to as a bed hopper because sometimes he ends up in bed with the 11 year old and sometimes his in bed with his brother (age 5) and sometimes he comes into my room and i leave and sleep in his bed as its crowded with the 3 of us (so i leave him in bed with his dad) and sometimes i go into his bed and sleep with him, and sometimes he sleeps on his own which is getting more and more often and for the last 18 months he hasn't cried when Ive left the house, he has only cried a copuple of times when i have left him at preschool because his not in form to go that day (he has issues possible asd/adhd).


3 very different children.

Thats cool, whatever works for you and I'm glad your chldren are happy.

Ayla

denballs wrote: »

If i was you id be more concerned about why you are so afraid of the childs mother.....<SNIP> put your foot down, she obviously is by refusing to even discuss it....when she gets home just Tell {not ask or state and wait for a response i literally mean tell} her you have sorted her out a nice room so she,ll be sleeping there tonight.....if the mother says anything like, no the child is sleeping in your room, then you ask why woud the chid sleep in your room when the child has her own room, this means she either has to debate the matter or agree with you.

Wow, I don't think I'd want to be in a relationship with you if that's how you "deal" with issues that arise. What an insensitive, one-sided and dominating way to work through a situation! If my husband *ever* told me how things were going to be and did not even attempt a discussion then there would be some serious problems!

wolfpawnat

Ayla wrote: »

Wow, I don't think I'd want to be in a relationship with you if that's how you "deal" with issues that arise. What an insensitive, one-sided and dominating way to work through a situation! If my husband *ever* told me how things were going to be and did not even attempt a discussion then there would be some serious problems!

But it would seem the OP is in a situation like that. He is not being consulted in the raising of his daughter and the routine of his home, he is being told what is happening and is pretty much in a like it or lump it attitude.

LegacyUser

Mothman wrote: »

I'm flying in the face of most opinion here, but for me goingforward has summed it up nicely in post 26


OP, I see an issue of a difference of expectations between yourself and your wife and I feel it is something that you both need to discuss so that you can each try to understand each others thoughts.

OP here.
Thanks to all for your comments.
On one hand I feel a bit better hearing other people who had kids over 2/3 in the bed with them, and the fact that it is prob not doing too much harm for the child.

On other hand I am a little resentful to my wife. We managed to have a discusion without either one getting too angry. We still dont agree, at the end i suggested that we set the room up for the child,posters/duvet etc and let the child decide herself when she wants to use it. My wife does not agree with this(excuse is we need the room for storage/drying clothes). She wants to wait untill the child starts school. Also I suggested she read this thread and she refused.

Morag

Going to school is a big change and bring challenges to kids.
I would suggest that the changing to her own room and own bed be done 6 months before hand to establish a good routine before having to set up the school routine on top of that.
Other wise it could be too much change all lumped in together on a child.

Dades

whatcanido wrote: »

We still dont agree, at the end i suggested that we set the room up for the child,posters/duvet etc and let the child decide herself when she wants to use it. My wife does not agree with this(excuse is we need the room for storage/drying clothes). She wants to wait untill the child starts school. Also I suggested she read this thread and she refused.

That suggests to me she's not overly interested in what anyone - including your child - have to say or think on the matter. The fact that she's put an arbitrary future date two years away is just a tactical limit on sharing a room so it appears like there is a purpose to to it. The reality is more likely that she's focusing purely on her needs and not you or your daughters (who might like her own room - my daughter is two-and-a-bit and loves her own pink room with all her bits!)

I'm afraid with this mindset you have your work cut out for you, OP.

ktod

I agree with Sharrow - imagine starting school and moving into your own room all at the same time?

It's tricky to comment on this like this as there are, for example, many differing opinions on breastfeeding. Latest medical advice is that there is no nutritional value in breastmilk after the first six months - which is why so many women feed, or try to feed, their babies up until that age. And why so many mothers go back to work then.

I have to ask, do you get any sleep with your daughter in the room with you? Both my sons were in a moses basket in our room until six months old and then moved into their own room - just across the hallway from us, doors open. Call me selfish, but I was really glad to get a bit more sleep, as having them in our room was keeping me awake more than necessary.

Again, a purely personal opinion, is there a compromise that you could reach with your wife? Like, I'll agree to our daughter staying in our room for the time being, but really feel for her sake that she should move into her own room before she starts school?

Good luck

wolfpawnat

So storage and drying clothes is her excuse, will it still be her excuse when your daughter is 10 years old. I have to agree with other posters. If you are allowing her to stay for now, then at least get her out to her own room before it starts!


Sorry ye are not able to agree on this OP, I know the annoyance of being stuck in a less than desirable sleeping situation with your child!

xalot

Ok dont have kids so might not be qualified but from this is how it went in my house:

I shared a room with my brother and on my first day of school I came home to find the playroom had been converted to my own bedroom. It was painted and carpeted and I was so excited. I hadn't wanted my own room but my parents told me that I was a big girl now and they were so proud of me for going to big school that they got me my own room. If I didn't want to sleep in it they wouldn't have minded, but it was full of all my toys and so pretty that there was no way I was leaving it.

I think the idea of decorating a room is a great one.

Another thing that hasn't been stressed enough is that you have equal say in the raising of your child and your wife and you have to meet a compromise that you're both willing to live with.

I hope it works out for you all.

Mothman

whatcanido wrote: »

OP
On other hand I am a little resentful to my wife. We managed to have a discusion without either one getting too angry. We still dont agree, at the end i suggested that we set the room up for the child,posters/duvet etc and let the child decide herself when she wants to use it. My wife does not agree with this(excuse is we need the room for storage/drying clothes). She wants to wait untill the child starts school. Also I suggested she read this thread and she refused.

Waiting till school may well be a delay tactic and near the time it'll be something a little later. I've used this tactic with my extended family regarding rearing issues
The need for a room for storage/drying clothes is surely not going to change and that need will still be there in x number of years to me not a reasonable argument.

Feelings of resentment is not healthy either for yourself or the child. if my own kids are anything to go by, they are very sensitive to parents moods and if your child has a sense that you may be trying to separate your child from your wife this may have the opposite effect.

Is there influence from wider family regarding either of your positions? Your wife does not seem to understand your depth of feeling and it may be that your wife resents you for not supporting her in what she may believe is best.
I can't help feeling that you and your wife may need outside help, as in marriage type counseling before the resentment deepens further.

denballs

Ayla wrote: »

Wow, I don't think I'd want to be in a relationship with you if that's how you "deal" with issues that arise. What an insensitive, one-sided and dominating way to work through a situation! If my husband *ever* told me how things were going to be and did not even attempt a discussion then there would be some serious problems!

dont view what i write in a different way than how i obviously meant it to fulfill the requirements to create a stupid response............i was saying that she is being dominant and refusing to discuss it........so if he wants to get his way....or even comprimise he is going to need to do the same instead of just lying down and letting her get her way with everything when she,s obviously doing harm to her child and herself..........

Citygirl1

I'm also not a parent, or even married. However, I do recall that when my brother and I were aged around 2&3 or 3&4 years we spent a few months sleeping in our parents room in a single bed next to theirs (we had a three bedroomed house ). I think it arose because we kept coming into their bed, so they decided to set up the single bed there for a bit more room. Not sure how it stopped either. I must ask my Mum. I have to say it's not something I'd admit freely, so I guess lots of families probably do have odd arrangements, that they don't discuss with the world.

Looking back I don't know how my Dad in particular tolerated that set up, as it wasn't a particularly large room, and in later life he would always have been very exact about his personal space.

As has been noted though, the difference with this situation is that it is the Mum who seems to be unwilling to let the child go.
OP, I'm just wondering if she is Irish or of Asian origin? I recently was talking to a Chinese friend, and learned that in China babies and young children always share the bed with their parents. When she took her baby back for a visit, she had to buy a cot, as none of her family or friends owned one.