UL student behaviour / Stop Charity Week

cson

Ok, surely Milford has a Residents Association? Firstly I'd visit those houses and kindly ask the residents to tidy up the place and if they aren't agreeable to that contact the Landlord - I'm sure he/she wouldn't be too keen on seeing the place in ****e.

Those advocating that the University or the ULSU provide something in the way of cleaning need to acknowledge the reality of that which is outside of volunteer work; it isn't going to happen. Tutorials/Staff/Resources have been cut back in UL as far as I can see this year which means cleaning up off campus estates is likely to be far far down the list of priorities for funding. Same goes for ULSU who I'd imagine are under pressure financially too. That might not be palatable to the residents but it is the reality of the situation.

Your best bet? Stop wasting your efforts complaining here and [1] Set up a Residents Association if there isn't already one [2] Write/Email/Phone Don Barry to advise him of the situation you may get enforced volunteers this way from students who have been naughty and owe the University service [I know in Campus Villages breaches of your tenancy agreement mean you do Community Service or get evicted] [3] Contact ULSU advising them of your situation also [4] I don't condone this method but as a last resort contact Limerick Leader etc - a published story may make the relevant authorities take the issue more seriously.

You might not get anywhere but I can guarantee you have a better chance of it than bitching on an internet forum.

brucechan

cson, I wont be setting up a residents association because Im not a long term resident (probably gone by the summer). Secondly, why contact the SU? What will they do? I wouldn't expect them to go and clean outside someones house. Thats not fair. What is fair, if it happens, is that the SU organise pick ups on the green areas etc (and all credit to them if they do). No, we'll get the county council, or the guards to do one of their super dooper instantaneous clean ups because that's their job according to another contributor. Come on, lets get real. I just find it appalling that students can let this happen outside where they live, with their litter, out of their bins, without regard for anyone else. Says a lot about them.

And the other thing is, by the way, is that Boards is a FORUM! Where people can express opinions. If you want to call it bitching, fine, but if you don't like it, don't contribute. I suppose there's nothing wrong with the "daily bitch about UL" thread, or everyone moaning about the Lodge closing? Its my forum and I'll moan, bitch or WHINGE if I want to!

cson

brucechan wrote: »

cson, I wont be setting up a residents association because Im not a long term resident (probably gone by the summer). Secondly, why contact the SU? What will they do? I wouldn't expect them to go and clean outside someones house. Thats not fair. What is fair, if it happens, is that the SU organise pick ups on the green areas etc (and all credit to them if they do). No, we'll get the county council, or the guards to do one of their super dooper instantaneous clean ups because that's their job according to another contributor. Come on, lets get real. I just find it appalling that students can let this happen outside where they live, with their litter, out of their bins, without regard for anyone else. Says a lot about them.

Thus I am to deduce that your only course of action is to complain about it on boards.ie

And here was I trying to offer a constructive solution. Oh well.

brucechan wrote: »

And the other thing is, by the way, is that Boards is a FORUM! Where people can express opinions. If you want to call it bitching, fine, but if you don't like it, don't contribute. I suppose there's nothing wrong with the "daily bitch about UL" thread, or everyone moaning about the Lodge closing? Its my forum and I'll moan, bitch or WHINGE if I want to!

If you'll kindly have a read of my post again my reference to bitching was clearly in the context of bitching on an internet forum will not solve the problem. Thus I tired to offer possible constructive solutions aside from boards.ie that may help long term and short term residents who wish to become involved take action.

If you want to have a mature discussion about this then I'll gladly take part. Otherwise I've no interest in entertaining childishness like the last piece of your post I've quoted.

brucechan

You started it! Na na naaaaa!
C'mon CSON, no fighting here. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

seen2Bgreen

Its been cleaned up. Looks like the bitching worked. Fair play Brucechan!

Ginge Young

Again would simply like to point out that clean ups usually take place weekly (and will be taking place daily during Charity Week). Problem is that there are only so many volunteers and I doubt it was the bitching that got it cleaned, probably just the good nature that is in some students that people fail to recognize among the wider student body.

brucechan

Yeah, that must be it. The good nature of students.

Meanwhile, back on planet EARTH...

Mossin

brucechan wrote: »

Yeah, that must be it. The good nature of students.

Meanwhile, back on planet EARTH...

Cos students arent capable of doing good? Thats right, all students just go aroung littering, drinking, tossing rubbish on the ground and overturing bins :rolleyes:

Its amazing that even though the University has been around for over 20 years now, that a minority of students continue to tarnish the majority of students' reputation by littering, and the general public tend to generalise and believe that students are one and the same regardless.....its time to get real here, and deal with the real issue which in my opinion is the serious lack of punishment attached to littering.
I'm in the USA right now, and have been for the past 10 days, and there is NO sign of littering on the streets, because the police patrol regularly, and there are serious fines associated with littering. If the same was to be rigourously introduced in Ireland, I'd wonder id students would still be blamed for it?

AlwaysRight

brucechan wrote: »

Yeah, that must be it. The good nature of students.

Meanwhile, back on planet EARTH...

If there is one thing that makes me want to flip its this sickening "youth of today" attitude which paints every young person with the same brush. We are not all like that and I despise being shoved into that category because I am a student. What does someone have to do to break free from that sh**. Clearly, in your opinion, volunteering isn't enough to prove some students have "good nature". What must they do? Go and physically restrain every drunken nob walking around?? A lot of students do an awful lot of good, and not because they have to, but because they are decent people. I would bet money on it that the students who go out picking up litter are not the ones who put it there, so why do they do it?? - if not because they are decent people with a good nature, why do they do it!!??

brucechan

Don't forget I live in Dun an Oir and have studied at UL. I'm know only too well of the stigma, and know for sure that not all students are bad. I hated the fact that I was branded as one of the ignorant ones, but I'm realistic to know that the minority (which is a bigger number than "minority" suggests) do cause damage to the locals and their quality of life. That's a fact, and there's no getting away from it, just take a walk through the estates this week for example. And the SU are doing their best with MnMs, which is a great idea, going back to this gesture that we posted about earlier. But there is, unfortunately, a huge lack of respect for Elm Park, Milford Grange and the families that live there, I'm sorry to say.

And I'll bet you anything that it wasn't good natured students who picked up the litter in Elderado

brucechan

Any one in any doubt about the damage that a "minority" can do, take a stroll around elm park and milford grange. all credit to the SU and MnMs they are visibly doing their best, but the disregard for property is obvious. Avignon, dun an oir, compostella and anywhere in between is a junk yard of broken bottles and cans. I met a lady from the Residents assoc. today along with a a lady from another house who was sweeping up glass because her kids play there, and she was crying. FFS. You can forget about telling me its the Guards job or the council or whoever. Its up to the individuals, and these individuals who represent the University are disgraceful. At this moment I'm embarrassed to say I'm a graduate of UL.

PeakOutput

brucechan wrote: »

Any one in any doubt about the damage that a "minority" can do, take a stroll around elm park and milford grange. all credit to the SU and MnMs they are visibly doing their best, but the disregard for property is obvious. Avignon, dun an oir, compostella and anywhere in between is a junk yard of broken bottles and cans. I met a lady from the Residents assoc. today along with a a lady from another house who was sweeping up glass because her kids play there, and she was crying. FFS. You can forget about telling me its the Guards job or the council or whoever. Its up to the individuals, and these individuals who represent the University are disgraceful. At this moment I'm embarrassed to say I'm a graduate of UL.

its common knowledge that each rag week causes the congregation of the minority who do damage from every other college in the country in one place for that week. They tried to arrange the rag weeks on the same week this year so that people would stay in their own college but it didnt work

brucechan

So now its a few littering "minorities" that have got together? A little Association of litterbugs? A League of Litter Offenders at an annual convention?! Anything but the simple reality of thousands of UL students - drunk / high in many cases - having their parties and not caring a jot.
Can you please stop making childish excuses and accept the facts. Just because youre probably a decent guy doesn't mean you need to wear rose tinted glasses. The place is in ****. The reason is UL students. As much as I hate it, at least I can admit it!

AlwaysRight

brucechan wrote: »

So now its a few littering "minorities" that have got together? A little Association of litterbugs? A League of Litter Offenders at an annual convention?! Anything but the simple reality of thousands of UL students - drunk / high in many cases - having their parties and not caring a jot.
Can you please stop making childish excuses and accept the facts. Just because youre probably a decent guy doesn't mean you need to wear rose tinted glasses. The place is in ****. The reason is UL students. As much as I hate it, at least I can admit it!

Out of curiosity - what do you think is the solution? I would genuinely like to know, and possibly how you think that solution will have its effect. There is always plenty to complain about, but its ways to actually fix it is what people should focus on. I think the SU are very proactive and I feel the MnMs work absolutely brilliantly. Students will listen to students far quicker than they will take advice from Guard, security or residents, and the cleaning up they do makes a big difference in the estates. But if there is still problems, what can be done?

As far as I can see the task is changing the attitudes, and I don't think thats an easy thing to do. It will take time, and I think the change of name to Charity Week might go towards changing the view of what the week is actually about. I think that majority of the students are truly decent people. But with the alcohol traditions which Ireland has many students are very accustomed to alcohol and obviously get drunk and while even at that stage they are still nice people it is just when groups of drunk people are together things just happen in the name of fun without much forethought.

This is not by any means a simple problem with an easy solution. Obviously things need to be done, with kids, elderly and families living in these estates who need to be able to live their lives peacefully and coexist with students. However, decent well thought out solutions need to be brought to the table, in my opinion. The discussion really shouldn't be constantly about what's happening but what can be done to help.

PeakOutput

brucechan wrote: »

So now its a few littering "minorities" that have got together? A little Association of litterbugs? A League of Litter Offenders at an annual convention?! Anything but the simple reality of thousands of UL students - drunk / high in many cases - having their parties and not caring a jot.
Can you please stop making childish excuses and accept the facts. Just because youre probably a decent guy doesn't mean you need to wear rose tinted glasses. The place is in ****. The reason is UL students. As much as I hate it, at least I can admit it!

no matter what you choose to believe these are the facts, no doubt there is litter all year round from ul students, but the reason its going to be extra bad this week is because of visiting students

brucechan

After talking to MnMs, residents young and old, the cops, and seeing first hand the damage that has been wreaked, it seems to me that "Charity Week" has to be cancelled. The criminal damage being caused is only giving a bad name to every one of us associated with UL, and its easy to see why.
In another post I mentioned the lady who was crying cleaning up the glass so her kids wouldn't cut themselves, sick of the devastation. The MnMs have been disgusted by what they've witnessed. Landlords have found their houses egged. Wing mirrors of cars snapped off. Bins kicked over. Cans and bottles thrown every where. Parties next door to families. Students pissing in old folks gardens. Fireworks set off driving pet dogs wild. Cars driving across the greens.

This isn't funny, its a shame.

I'm 28 now so a bit older than most, and the last few days have made me realise that Charity Week isn't really about Charity. Its about destruction and a total lack of respect.

Its time to get a grip or forget the whole bloody thing. Anyone with an ounce of self respect will agree. We wouldn't behave this way at home.

PeakOutput

cancelling rag week wont change peoples behaviour. people will just choose their own week to have their party and invite their friends up anyway and the same thing will happen accept it will be spread out over the semester as people do i on different weeks

another likely outcome would be a massive backlash from the students and they would use the likes of facebook to organise their own thing and it will be just as big but with none of the infrastructure the SU organises

the gardai enforcing the law would stop all the problems

danlen

PeakOutput wrote: »

cancelling rag week wont change peoples behaviour. people will just choose their own week to have their party and invite their friends up anyway and the same thing will happen accept it will be spread out over the semester as people do i on different weeks

another likely outcome would be a massive backlash from the students and they would use the likes of facebook to organise their own thing and it will be just as big but with none of the infrastructure the SU organises

the gardai enforcing the law would stop all the problems

+1

meg3178

PeakOutput wrote: »

cancelling rag week wont change peoples behaviour. people will just choose their own week to have their party and invite their friends up anyway and the same thing will happen accept it will be spread out over the semester as people do i on different weeks

another likely outcome would be a massive backlash from the students and they would use the likes of facebook to organise their own thing and it will be just as big but with none of the infrastructure the SU organises

the gardai enforcing the law would stop all the problems

The students are not babies, they are supposed to be adults at college for a reason...to learn, not to willfully destroy other people's property. Why should the Gardai have to babysit students who should know better? I think the minority of the student body are causing so many problems for the decent ones, which is a shame. Most students during charity week are fine. The public are not objecting to students drinking and having the craic, but not when property not belonging to the students is being destroyed and people are in fear. People living on their own and the elderly feel they cannot walk in safety, are clearing up after students are vandalising their property etc.

Perhaps if students thought it was their granny being in fear or their parents homes vandalised, how would they feel??
If it was a handful of kids from a poor area, there would be outrage and they would be hauled before the courts, why should the students be exempt?

I'm sorry, but there is no excuse for this type of behaviour :mad::mad:

cson

Sure stop University and relocate UL to a green field site miles from any residential area. It would appear to be the only way to solve your repeated gripes OP.

PeakOutput

meg3178 wrote: »

The students are not babies, they are supposed to be adults at college for a reason...to learn, not to willfully destroy other people's property. Why should the Gardai have to babysit students who should know better? I think the minority of the student body are causing so many problems for the decent ones, which is a shame. Most students during charity week are fine. The public are not objecting to students drinking and having the craic, but not when property not belonging to the students is being destroyed and people are in fear. People living on their own and the elderly feel they cannot walk in safety, are clearing up after students are vandalising their property etc.

you are right they are adults and they should suffer adult consequences for their actions which only the gardai can enforce, they are after all breaking the law so its actually what the gardai are paid to do.

again you are right it is a minority so the majority need to be protected from the minority and this is also the job of the gardai

If it was a handful of kids from a poor area, there would be outrage and they would be hauled before the courts, why should the students be exempt?

so you agree with me that this is a job for the gardai and the courts? excellent. I guarantee you that one year of harsh and public court enforced penalties on trouble makers would seriously reduce the problem. If it was a coordinated effort by the gardai in every area that has a rag week it would work even better.

The university can only do so much and are limited to their campus most of this trouble happens off campus which like it or not has nothing to do with the university or students union.

the students union go out of their way to try and help off campus with the likes of m+m's but lets face it they have ZERO actual power if an m+m was chastising me for something or tried to get my details or whatever i would just tell them to **** off and what can they do about it? nothing and they shouldnt have to do anything about it thats what the gardai are employed, trained and paid for

brucechan

Well CSON, your post says a lot about you.

Peak Output makes sense, and I agree to a point. But the Gardai have plenty of other stuff to be doing, such as patrolling areas where gangland crime exists. They will obviously prioritise such things over Charity Week, although I understand they have been quite visible during the last few days.
The University actually does have a responsibility though. Just because the hassle happens a few metres away from the border of the college, doesn't mean it is right to turn a blind eye. I would imagine that they have a duty of care to those within a certain radius of Uni (Law students might advise better). But it is too simplistic to paint a picture that basically students or others can drink in public (illegal), throw their ****e around (illegal), vandalise and caus e criminal damage (illegal) and then to have the Gardai wait around the corner and pounce.
The MnMs, who I have great respect for, by virtue of their patrols, show that the SU is taking a bit of responsibility. The real disappointing thing though, is that the students themselves don't take any responsibility. It boils down to a lack of respect really. The University likewise, imho, also displays that lack of respect to its neighbours.
PS: I would hope, PeakOutput, that you wouldn't give MnMs a reason to chastise you, and that you would be mature enough to assist rather than telling them where to go! Hope youre enjoying "Charity" Week sensibly!

hoorsmelt

Brucechan

The college and SU has a duty of care to students on their premises or undertaking activities with societies who are affiliated to the SU. Realistically speaking, there's little they can do beside trying to get students along to events on campus or issuing appeals to students not to drink to excess. Imo, there should be restrictions placed on off-licences around Castletroy for the week- perhaps a spending restriction, or a limit to the amount of units they can sell to customers at one time, with returning customers being refused sale. There were young lads obviously smashed buying booze in Aldi yesterday evening who should have been refused, but the local businesses seem more concerned with making an easy buck out of students than acting responsibly.

PeakOutput

restrictions wont work people only respond to incentives,


there is no incentive for them to change their behaviour, the people who will be reached by anti drunkiness campaigns etc are not the people we are having problems with. the incentive to behave on campus should be if you dont you get suspended or expelled or whatever punishment the university wishes to dish out and if it is serious enough the gardai get involved. this works because there is a constant visible presence of security so you know that the chances of getting caught are high.

the incentive to behave off campus should be you will be punished by the legal system but because of there not being that many gardai around the chances of getting caught are much lower

these people are generally completely normal law abiding citizens when they are at home hanging around with their regular mates. the castletroy area during rag week has a kinda of wild west anything goes vibe for it so peoples behaviour changes as the apparent chances of consequences to their actions occuring reduces.

sceptre

I've merged the "UL student behaviour" and "Stop Charity Week" threads as the latter thread is discussing a specific time-related (heightened) series of instances of the same behaviour as the former. The actual discussion matter as posted is essentially the same in both threads.

Kindly remember when posting that personalising the discussion towards fellow thread contributors on either "side" of the discussion isn't particularly useful or constructive. Post usefully and constructively.

/mod

brucechan

Spot on Peaky, although its a terrible pity that people need incentives to behave respectfully.

JamesBond2010

Scumbag Students are after setting a Fire now on the Green in Elm Park saw it passing!!

Ginge Young

JamesBond2010 wrote: »

Scumbag Students are after setting a Fire now on the Green in Elm Park saw it passing!!

I'm assuming you did contact the Gardaí before posting up here yes?

JamesBond2010

ya did do

canned_ulkc

Boards.ie is sooooooo entertaining.....

A few FACTS:
Students can be absolute assbags
Students can be great
Not all great students are great
Not all great students are assbags

Confused? I am - especially after reading some of the above absolute tripe!

Cut charity week? Result - Facebook campaign for "bring back RAG week" which will in truth translate to "let's get wrecked and do the kind of stuff that got Charity week cut in the first place"

The reality is that whatever the format, Charity week is a SERIOUS challenge for which the SU have received varying degrees of criticism and praise... YES! PRAISE! That's how things went last year anyway.... Actual praise for the efforts.

So is there MORE hassle this year or did I just miss the 20 page long discussion last year?

To be fair to the SU, how much would anyone expect from them? The M&M set up is as close to holding the hands of the immature drunks as can be! Serious effort is being made.

It amazes me how many people I've heard of being fined for public drinking yet you couldn't step out the door around Castletroy at the moment without seeing a bunch of people who seem to have unlimited money for fines.... Which is strange with a recession on and all.

Maybe that's a bit of the reasoning. €15 for 20 bottles of Miller in Dunnes and people staying home more (as is the recession trend)

Why bother heading to the Stables or Java's where you know one of your buddies are going to forget their ID, get hassle versus 20 bottles and a houseparty where you've some chance of finally getting that dirty looking ride from across the road one step closer to the double bed in the garage room...

Well..... the nights are a bit colder this week....