UL student behaviour / Stop Charity Week

brucechan

what's the tripe youre referring to?

who gave praise? (probably the recipients of any profits, but I doubt the residents gave any praise, or got any profits for clean up, repair to damage etc)

Yes, MnMs doing as best they can. Already agreed on that.

€15 for 20 bottles? I'm in! (But I won't smash the glass).

canned_ulkc

It's my opinion that an anti-cahrity week stance is tripe.

Those who were collected for gave praise as did many residents last year. You can take that as something I neglected to add in the FACT section of my previous post.....

brucechan

I'll take your word for it, but the many residents Ive spoken to would love to see the back of Rag / Kollege / Charity Week. In fact I'll bet my number of residents would far exceed yours! In fact # 2, I reckon your statement about the "many residents" is a bigger load of tripe than the original suggestion.
Enjoy your Miller.

canned_ulkc

I would concede that many more would love to see the back of it than would praise.

However, imagine what would happen if charity week were given up.... I gaurantee you a whisper campaign would create even more hassle for residents as students would arrange an unofficial week of it.

Imagine that - there'd be no M&Ms, no Ents crew, no focused areas or events where things can be in some way controlled and the estates are the places that would be in worse shape.

I'm sorry to say it, but if that were the case, I'd actually start siding with those who have unreasonably already say: "fk the residents - what do they expect living right beside a college of over 10,000 randy piss-heads?"

I'm not saying you have no residents have no reason to be cranky - they absolutely do - we're talking about about 3000 people and more every night for 5 or 6 nights...... but cancelling Christmas sorry.... RAG.... oops again.... Charity week will solve nothing.


P.S. It's Fosters for me - and if you think I'm one of the pissheads, you'd be making an assumption.

DesQ2

Maybe the Dalai Lama will stop off at milford grange during his vist to UL and make peace between the students and the residents! then they could all crack open a case of beer and have one of those out of nowhere parties they have at the end of all the movies.............and live happily ever after in a sea of broken bottles encrusted in their own vomit....amen.

Couldn't get the english version but you get the idea!

Brucechan will we be seeing you in a hawaian style necklace sipping on cocktails?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4epoM4kNbM

brucechan

Not only that Des, I'll make shake and serve you your first Sunrise! Dalai is welcome to the House of Bruce in the Temple of Doom An Oir, as long as he respects the neighbours, doesn't get pregnant, and the MnMs get him home safely!
Canned, Fosters it is. Although I reckon you'd do damage to a slab of Miller given the chance?

DesQ2

Ha ha after the sunrise can you make me a woo woo? I love those!!

Jam-Fly

Look, it's all very simple, it's risk vs reward. Students know they are taking a risk in what they are doing, but if they feel the reward is worth taking the risk, they will take the risk. Private estates vs student villages is a prime example of this. Risk=greater in student villages (in the eyes of most students), therefore there seems to be less hassle.

I see zero point in discussing the values or attitude or respect of "students". At the end of the day, there is nothing really the university, residents association, gardai etc. can do about it.
Yes, I agree that in an ideal world everyone would be courteous to each other and litter, broken bottles, upturned wheelie bins etc. would be a non-issue, but needless to say, we are in a far from ideal world.

As far as the university's responsibility goes, they have no more than a moral responsibility with regards to private residential estates. Firstly, they have no real jurisdiction in these estates (like a prior poster mentioned, any citizen is entitled to completely ignore any M+Ms). If employees of a certain company were causing trouble in their private lives, the company is hardly expected to assume responsibility. Sure they have a moral responsibility, but they do inform their students and provide services such a M+Ms, clean ups etc. If you think the university should be expected to do more, you are mistaken.

So who is responsible? Simply put, the individuals (read as 'individual person', not as 'student') are responsible for their actions. Who is responsible for making sure these individuals are held responsible for their actions? Well, I suppose the legal answer surely has to be the gardai. You could also make some sort of an argument that the landlords of the houses are somewhat responsible.

I think the whole 'student' thing is a double edged sword. I don't think there's any real denying that yes, some students (possibly a reasonably high percentage) do cause trouble in the form of littering and noise pollution. However, it also has to be noted that students and the University of Limerick as a whole is both a great asset, huge economic resource and overall, just a huge revenue generator in the local Castletroy economy. It's unfair to say stuff about students without noting the simple fact that if it weren't for them, Castletroy as it is, would not be there.

Ms. Education

Jam-Fly wrote: »

As far as the university's responsibility goes, they have no more than a moral responsibility with regards to private residential estates. Firstly, they have no real jurisdiction in these estates (like a prior poster mentioned, any citizen is entitled to completely ignore any M+Ms). If employees of a certain company were causing trouble in their private lives, the company is hardly expected to assume responsibility. Sure they have a moral responsibility, but they do inform their students and provide services such a M+Ms, clean ups etc. If you think the university should be expected to do more, you are mistaken.

If you're a regular to boards you probably know my policy on posting on threads aside from the one where I give advice but I just want to clarify two things from that post. I'm not getting involved in the argument but giving accurate information.

1) M+Ms and cleanups are not organised by the University. They are run by the Students' Union. The M+Ms are the first body to react to a complaint by residents/a disturbance in the estate, meaning it is informal i.e. not the Gardaí. For the most part advice from the M+Ms is keep the noise down and refrain from drinking in public as it incurrs a fine. If students ignore the M+Ms the Gardaí are usually called.

2) This is more a point of information. The University does have jurisdiction in the estates for the purpose of disciplinary action. If a student is reported to the University for actions committeed in the estates then (s)he can be charged under the Code of Conduct. The volume of students who do not know this is quite high because very few students actually read the code of conduct which binds them during their time as UL students.

brucechan

Agreed Ms. Ed.
SU and MnMs are a great idea, and have been visible all over the place this week. IN fact, the SU should be commended.
Interesting point on UL too. Perhaps students should sign the code of conduct in future?

Jam-Fly, your theory on the "huge" revenue etc for Castletroy is flawed. It is mainly the shops and bars on campus that benefit over the other Spars for example. (Take the Lodge as another case, it has closed due to shag all revenue) Also, rents are paid to landlords most of whom who do not come from Castletroy, and most UL staff live outside the area. So earnings made are not spent within the area (leakages).

And its perfectly fair to say stuff about students if it has been witnessed.

PeakOutput

Ms. Education wrote: »

The volume of students who do not know this is quite high because very few students actually read the code of conduct which binds them during their time as UL students.

I dont know anyone who has ever been brought up for official sanctions in the university and I know some people who did some pretty wreckless stuff, does it happen much?

canned_ulkc

brucechan wrote: »

Jam-Fly, your theory on the "huge" revenue etc for Castletroy is flawed. It is mainly the shops and bars on campus that benefit over the other Spars for example. (Take the Lodge as another case, it has closed due to shag all revenue) Also, rents are paid to landlords most of whom who do not come from Castletroy, and most UL staff live outside the area. So earnings made are not spent within the area (leakages).

With 10,000+ students in the area surely it is an irrelevant point that incomes generated by them "leaks" out of the area?

As regards the lodge - I'm quite certain that one of their lowest costs was the nightclub and it's suffering I'm sure more due to hotels country-wide having problems and not a nightclub.

davidmichael

The lodge hotel is running quite well and the nightclub closed because students didn't spend any money. Anyway, I would to praise the MnMs, they did a great job. I would love to see them every Tues and Thurs!! The rebranding has worked so far so keep up the good work, it was a big challenge for the SU. I think the Galway SU is facing a big challenge now, much like the ULSU had 3 years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH-CtXAkJ5M

We could use that bin in milford grange, the state of the place from last week.

brucechan

Not quite the Economist, eh Canned?!
The SPEND of UL students will go mainly to on campus shops, bars, restaurants. Of course there will be a litle spin off, maybe at Superquinn or the Hurlers etc. But the bulk off campus income, such as rent, does not remain, or is re-spent in the area. So the cash goes elsewhere and is spent in other outlets away from Castletroy. Hence the leakage.
As regards the Lodge, it is quite definitley a lack of income from the nightclub. Charging too little, students arriving late and with drink taken, and more than the odd naggin getting in to! The boys up there will verify that.
Peakoutput makes a good point. I wonder how many students have actually been disciplined by the Uni authorities? Then again it must be difficult for residents (for example) to get id cards from them at all hours off the morning...

Jam-Fly

Ms. Education wrote: »

If you're a regular to boards you probably know my policy on posting on threads aside from the one where I give advice but I just want to clarify two things from that post. I'm not getting involved in the argument but giving accurate information.

1) M+Ms and cleanups are not organised by the University. They are run by the Students' Union. The M+Ms are the first body to react to a complaint by residents/a disturbance in the estate, meaning it is informal i.e. not the Gardaí. For the most part advice from the M+Ms is keep the noise down and refrain from drinking in public as it incurrs a fine. If students ignore the M+Ms the Gardaí are usually called.

2) This is more a point of information. The University does have jurisdiction in the estates for the purpose of disciplinary action. If a student is reported to the University for actions committeed in the estates then (s)he can be charged under the Code of Conduct. The volume of students who do not know this is quite high because very few students actually read the code of conduct which binds them during their time as UL students.

Yeah sorry, I didn't quite clarify the difference between the SU and the University itself in my post.

Really? I wasn't aware of this. I know I could probably find it myself, but if you know off hand, does the Code of Conduct specify what estates in Castletroy? Or is it a "surrounding areas" kinda wording?

brucechan wrote: »

Agreed Ms. Ed.
SU and MnMs are a great idea, and have been visible all over the place this week. IN fact, the SU should be commended.
Interesting point on UL too. Perhaps students should sign the code of conduct in future?

Jam-Fly, your theory on the "huge" revenue etc for Castletroy is flawed. It is mainly the shops and bars on campus that benefit over the other Spars for example. (Take the Lodge as another case, it has closed due to shag all revenue) Also, rents are paid to landlords most of whom who do not come from Castletroy, and most UL staff live outside the area. So earnings made are not spent within the area (leakages).

And its perfectly fair to say stuff about students if it has been witnessed.

lol, so you're saying that UL works in some sort of a bubble? That Castletroy and UL effectively function as separate entities? What about the off licenses, petrol stations, night club(s), pubs, cinemas, supermarkets, hairdressers, take aways, taxis, pharmacies? What about the staff employed in/by UL? You're telling me that the employees of the arena, the sports bar, the stables, the SU shop, the lecturers, the tutors, the cleaning staff, the security staff do not come from Castletroy and live outside the area?

And also, I do not understand the point of your last sentence. I never said it is unfair to say stuff about students if it has been witnessed. If you read my post I actually say that it's pretty tough to deny that a lot of students (but not all obviously) do cause trouble. I do believe it's unfair to tar everyone with the same brush, but I also am realistic and know that 'reputations' (for the want of a better word) are there for a reason, and I'm not going to deny the reputation students have with regard to littering and noise pollution.

canned_ulkc

Certainly not an economist - and not the point I was trying to make anyways.
The point I was trying to make was that you seem to have an independant candidate style castletroy economy only attitude. My view is that such a view is short sighted. It's as if to say that money earned in an area should only be spent there - completely unrealistic....

Here's another suggestion... let the students ruin the place, have the residents provide their own private security and "after-party" cleanup and maybe the bigger the mess the more people are employed to clean up & security. This would surely also result in many claims against security personell creating further employment of solicitors in claims by students. Then of course students would spend the money in the Pagoda and Champers....
Seems to me like a score all around.....

brucechan

The offies make a few quid alright. The disco is closed. The Hurlers does shag all business unless its €2 a pint or half an hour to closing time after the students have arrived after drinking at home (the bar staff will tell you that). The cinema doesnt see too many students.
The amenities that are MAINLY used are on campus.
The staff, other than student staff, actually DO live outside the Castletroy area. They certainly live outside the Milford Grange, Elm Park, and College Court areas anyway. Ask them.

canned_ulkc

Yeah - just like I said - short sighted.

What about all those employed in the MANY MANY MANY other local businesses. To name a few I've been into over the last week..... Superquinn, Spar, Pagoda, Champers, Maxol, other Spar, 4 seasons pizza, Aldi, Chawkes, butchers at Chawkes. And that's all off campus.

It amazes me that you seem to be "me fein" in terms of this money spent in Castletroy requiring some kind of ring fencing within the community. I don't understand this. Money moves both ways, if it's generated by the existance of a University then surely those around should be greatfull for the revenue that existance brings in as opposed to having some deluded imagination that taking on the extremities of Charity Week entitiles them to a minimum percentage.

brucechan

No Canned, its not to say that all. No-one said that money "should" be spent there. I'm simply saying that a chunk of it "isn't" spent there.

To be honest, I won't be around long enough anyway,(my time at UL is almost up, and I'm off to Canada for 12 months working), so whether students continue wrecking the place or not won't cost me any sleep. I've been observing the behaviour and think its wrong, that's all. I also hold the opinion that the Uni Authorities are negligent in their social responsibilities, especially at pre-planned piss ups such as Charity Week and Christmas Days etc. That's my opinion.

I would hate to think that in time my kids would be able to get pissed and enjoy their Rag Weeks, but not cause criminal damage or upset to families / residents.

Why can't that element of students behave away from home, as they would at their own homes? Whatever about anyone else, my eyes have been opened (maybe its age!), and I regret that the people who have to be up for work or take their kids to school in the mornings, or the elderly, or any other resident has to put up with behaviour that some people find intimidating. It just isnt right.

Jam-Fly

canned_ulkc wrote: »

Certainly not an economist - and not the point I was trying to make anyways.
The point I was trying to make was that you seem to have an independant candidate style castletroy economy only attitude. My view is that such a view is short sighted. It's as if to say that money earned in an area should only be spent there - completely unrealistic....

Here's another suggestion... let the students ruin the place, have the residents provide their own private security and "after-party" cleanup and maybe the bigger the mess the more people are employed to clean up & security. This would surely also result in many claims against security personell creating further employment of solicitors in claims by students. Then of course students would spend the money in the Pagoda and Champers....
Seems to me like a score all around.....

Glad to see you can have a grown up conversation about the topic. As I said already, the hardest thing to change is an individual's attitude, and that is the core of the problem we are discussing. If students and individuals attitudes were different, the problem wouldn't be nearly as big. But changing someone's attitude is effectively impossible, so any other suggested solutions will not solve the problem 100%.

brucechan wrote: »

The offies make a few quid alright. The disco is closed. The Hurlers does shag all business unless its €2 a pint or half an hour to closing time after the students have arrived after drinking at home (the bar staff will tell you that). The cinema doesnt see too many students.
The amenities that are MAINLY used are on campus.
The staff, other than student staff, actually DO live outside the Castletroy area. They certainly live outside the Milford Grange, Elm Park, and College Court areas anyway. Ask them.

I never said they live in Milford Grange, Elm Park or College Court, but they DO live in Castletroy and the surrounding areas. I'm not going to get into a 'who knows more people' argument, but I know staff in the lodge, the hurlers, the cinema, the off licenses and staff in all different areas of the university and I stand by my comments.

Saying money isn't generated by students is absolutely ridiculous. Maybe you're not really sure how the economics of the situation works, but take my word for it, students and the university generate ALOT of revenue for the Castletroy area.

canned_ulkc

Amazingly that single post has spoken more sense than you have in 5 pages. That's not an insult - it's a compliment.

Jam - as regards my facetious remarks, take them as intended - a bit of an extreme example in order to highlight what I saw as a narrow view. Taking theings to their most extreme conclusion often does shine a light on whether a potential path is worth pursuing.

I'm going to bow out of this now - unless someone manages something aggrivatingly ignorant enough to draw me back. In order to try to seal that, I'll go for the Godwin's Law method of trying to end (at least my part of) the thread.

People who express an opinion about Charity Week in any way are Nazis.

ninty9er

brucechan wrote: »

The staff, other than student staff, actually DO live outside the Castletroy area. They certainly live outside the Milford Grange, Elm Park, and College Court areas anyway. Ask them.

I know of at least 3 directors in the University that live in the named estates and numerous other staff and faculty as well as in Woodhaven, Golf Links, Monaleen, etc... are those not Castletroy??

We know because we have been receiving emails and drop ins from staff expressing major satisfaction with the improvement on last year.

There was one resident on a national radio station who made claims that when investigated did not stand up to scrutiny. This resident also had the Code of Conduct emailed to them and an explanation of how to use it, yet would rather moan loudly and publicly than take any corrective action.

For the record:
It is not, nor has it ever been ULSUs role to resolve resident's issues with students. The University has an Accommodation Office and a Disciplinary Procedure in place for this.

Any phone calls I receive to my office will be directed to these areas as I am not paid to listen to residents complain about something over which I have no control or influence.

We arranged a text service for residents which was used to abuse anyone seen as causing a little trouble (nothing different to what would be seen on the average Thursday in the Market Quarter) as a "student thug". This was not the purpose of the service, it was for reporting serious incidents which were out of the ordinary.

The Gardaí are extremely satisfied with how the week went off and no damage has been caused as a direct result of Charity Week. Limerick County Council has not received ANY complaints about litter, so any comments made by residents on the radio regarding clean up costs are fanciful, false and do nothing to make the SU, or the University take them seriously.

davidmichael

who deals with student behaviour? we have established that its not the students union. fair enough. what is the disciplinary procedure if a student is found vandalising property around milford grange? I have 2 lads' ids that I took off them after one jumped on my car and the other smashed bottles outside my house.

I just want to follow university protocol, and get these guys punished.

Zeouterlimits

davidmichael wrote: »

who deals with student behaviour? we have established that its not the students union. fair enough. what is the disciplinary procedure if a student is found vandalising property around milford grange

ninty9er wrote: »

For the record:
It is not, nor has it ever been ULSUs role to resolve resident's issues with students. The University has an Accommodation Office and a Disciplinary Procedure in place for this.

.

So contact the University.

brucechan

We're going off topic slightly with the economic stuff. I think it would be an interesting study though, how much is spent in the area and how much is taken out. Perhaps that's for a different thread.

The statement about the county council is blatantly wrong. I know this because I contacted them twice, and my neighbour did also. I think its a fair bit that we weren't the only ones.
The point about the Gardai is also wrong, because they said it was as bad as they've seen it and even said that the good weather didn't help, as it meant more drinking outdoors for prolonged periods.

Ninety9er, tell me more about the text service please. How many incidents were reported, what's categorised as "out of the ordinary" etc. Cheers.

Davidmichael, contact UL and see what happens. I'll bet you won't get any sympathy from them.

woodchopper

People who express an opinion about Charity Week in any way are Nazis.[/QUOTE]

Boards has been infiltrated by the Student Union!

PeakOutput

brucechan wrote: »

We're going off topic slightly with the economic stuff. I think it would be an interesting study though, how much is spent in the area and how much is taken out. Perhaps that's for a different thread.

The statement about the county council is blatantly wrong. I know this because I contacted them twice, and my neighbour did also. I think its a fair bit that we weren't the only ones.
The point about the Gardai is also wrong, because they said it was as bad as they've seen it and even said that the good weather didn't help, as it meant more drinking outdoors for prolonged periods.

Ninety9er, tell me more about the text service please. How many incidents were reported, what's categorised as "out of the ordinary" etc. Cheers.

Davidmichael, contact UL and see what happens. I'll bet you won't get any sympathy from them.

garda in tell the person what they want to hear shocker

this charity week was seriously tame compared to the rag weeks of 2 and 3 years ago, last year was tame as well

i understand that locals will never be happy as long as it exists at all but there is a middle ground somewhere it just has to be found

Hulk Hands

As someone who spent half his week up at the Galway equivilant, the residents of Castletroy got off fairly lightly.

To be honest, and this might seem totally unreasonable, but any couple etc that bought/rented houses in smack bang across from the college must surely realise that they acquired the place cheaper because they would be neighbors with, and subjected to the actions of students.

There's plenty of places in Limerick that have similar rent rates etc, yet are in far more dangerous areas. At the end of the day, you're making the choice to live in an area that's population is made up of a majority of students. If you lived in a caravan park, do you think you would get the same sympathy when complaining about anti-social behavior?

These charity weeks go on in every college in the country, and the damage and mayhem caused at the UL ecquivilant pales in comparison to most others, largely due to the location of the college, being out from the city. If you want to cancel this fairly tame event then you might aswell cancel Christmas, New Years and Paddy's day while your at it.

woodchopper

These charity weeks go on in every college in the country, and the damage and mayhem caused at the UL ecquivilant pales in comparison to most others, largely due to the location of the college, being out from the city. If you want to cancel this fairly tame event then you might aswell cancel Christmas, New Years and Paddy's day while your at it.[/QUOTE]

Yes because getting drunk during the middle of the week is of equal importance to the birth of our lord Jesus Christ. Christmas is not all about presents and drink you know. I guess you wont be going to mass tomorrow morning sunshine!

Hulk Hands

Sorry, possibly I worded that wrong

Ban the Stephens day festivities and general holiday time socialising might be better.

Quick question for Limerick locals as well....where was there more combined damage and vandalism done, the street party when Munster were in the Heineken cup final, or any of the UL rag weeks?

But one was conveyed as a celebrated tribute and compliment to the city, while one is consistently conveyed as a disgrace.

Anything to do with students.....good for nothing students (old woman's voice)