UL student behaviour / Stop Charity Week

ninty9er

brucechan wrote: »

The statement about the county council is blatantly wrong. I know this because I contacted them twice, and my neighbour did also. I think its a fair bit that we weren't the only ones.

The point about the Gardai is also wrong, because they said it was as bad as they've seen it and even said that the good weather didn't help, as it meant more drinking outdoors for prolonged periods.

Well I can only take the area officer at the word that was given to our Receptionist.

There was more drinking outdoors, but the Gardaí were satisfied that this wasn't causing anyone an inconvenience in the majority of cases as it was limited to and between neighbouring gardens.

Where there were problems littering fines were issued. There was one incident of an open fire barbeque in a back garden in College Court which was resolved by the Gardaí.

brucechan wrote: »

Ninety9er, tell me more about the text service please. How many incidents were reported, what's categorised as "out of the ordinary" etc. Cheers.

If you live in Milford, Elm, college Court or Briarfield you got a leaflet through your door explaining the text service. Out of the ordinary is wanton criminal damage or shouting matches at 2am.

Pick holes all you like but I was in the estates until 3am on Sunday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday and they were cleaner at 3am every morning this week than they are most Saturday afternoons throughout the year.

PeakOutput

woodchopper wrote: »

Yes because getting drunk during the middle of the week is of equal importance to the birth of our lord Jesus Christ. Christmas is not all about presents and drink you know. I guess you wont be going to mass tomorrow morning sunshine!

:rolleyes:

its great that you have religious beliefs but the majority of people use christmas as a time to celebrate friends and family and it has nothing to do with your lord jesus christ, so get off the high horse it was pretty clear what he meant

brucechan

Ahhh, Hulk Hands has solved the mystery. Its the residents fault for purchasing properties near the Uni. Pesky residents. (Ps, house prices are actually more expensive near UL due to rental value and immediate walking access to amenities). (Pps, are you out of your mind trying to compare Munster victories with Charity Week?? I mean, are you serious ffs?)

99er, the MnM info either didn't come through my door in Dun an Oir or if it did, was stolen by my housemates. That's why I asked the simple question, don't hang me for that. I don't want to make this personal, but you seem to be trying to soften the reality. Where there was littering fines were issued? There must be fortunes owed so! I think you and I know that's not the case.
How come you get to decide what's "out of the ordinary"? If I owned a house in a residential area I would expect a normal quality of life, and not shouting and roaring at any hour of the night, bins being kicked over, parties next door, bottles being smashed etc. In fact, that applies to anyone living in the area or paying rent. Wanton criminal damage? Is that what you limit it to? Get real.

Thanks for your permission to pick holes, I'll take you up on that. Your defence of Charity Week is so weak its deplorable. MnMs, as I've stated many times, did a great job. But while Charity Week is well intentioned by most, it actually promotes excessive drinking and therefore disruptive behaviour, littering and your "wanton" criminal damage. (Unfortunately).

canned_ulkc

And there we have it.... I think you might be high bruce...

"I didn't get a leaflet" Boo-fkn-hoo

I think at this stage you're just pushing for the sake of it.

In terms of the SU "deciding" what's out of the ordinary and what gives them the right to.... um, they set up the service! THAT gives them the right to!

HOWEVER, Derek and the SU DIDN'T decide to define out of the ordinary - Derek gave EXAMPLES OF.

I think the point he tried to make but you so conveniently decided to add your own blinkered spin (again) was that there was a genuine attempt to set up a service which could compliment the M&M service but which appears to have been mis-used, completely devaluing that service. As regards defining what's out of the ordinary - I think that should be fairly obvious to people who are capable of an above amoeba level of critical thinking.
"There's someone bouncing on the roof of my car"
"A student dropped a bottle outside and said the F word and my daughter overheard it"
It doesn't take a locally-living professor to figure that one out now does it?

I look forward to your next reply which will surely ignore at least 50% of whatever point of view you next fail to disect.



P.S. Vote Canning

davidmichael

I'll vote Canning if you get rid of rag week!

ninty9er

Dempsey already did

Ms. Education

Jam-Fly wrote: »

Yeah sorry, I didn't quite clarify the difference between the SU and the University itself in my post.

Really? I wasn't aware of this. I know I could probably find it myself, but if you know off hand, does the Code of Conduct specify what estates in Castletroy? Or is it a "surrounding areas" kinda wording?

I've pasted the link to the Student Handbook below, a copy of the code of conduct is an appendix to it;

http://www2.ul.ie/pdf/201553623.pdf

In Section 1 it explains that the code applies to UL student whether on or off campus.

Ms. Education

brucechan wrote: »

Agreed Ms. Ed.
SU and MnMs are a great idea, and have been visible all over the place this week. IN fact, the SU should be commended.
Interesting point on UL too. Perhaps students should sign the code of conduct in future?

Students do sign the code of conduct on entry to UL i.e. enrolment. It is an appendix to the Student Handbook.

Ms. Education

PeakOutput wrote: »

I dont know anyone who has ever been brought up for official sanctions in the university and I know some people who did some pretty wreckless stuff, does it happen much?

I'm actually not sure if I'm allowed answer that question. There is a lot of confidentiality around the discipline process, so I'll have to err on the side of caution and not answer. However, I've pasted the link to the UL Advocate's page. That explains the complaints procedure and if people are not identifiable or an official complaint is not made to the University, then the issue cannot be followed up for the purposes of disciplinary action.

http://www2.ul.ie/web/WWW/Administration/UL_Advocate/Complaints

Eire-Dearg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alWvIiVIrwE

freyners

I was walking through elm park Wednesday morning and got talking to a resident who remarked that the estate were cleaner than any other time of the year, fair play to the MnMs

Hulk Hands

Judging from the general reaction I think the "cancel Charity week" motion might have failed this year.

Hard luck chaps, better luck next year

brucechan

spoke to a member of the SU and residents association. turns out that several calls were made to the gardai, the environmental office and the county council office in anacotty. the street sweeper truck was called twice due to the amount of broken glass on the avilla road in particular. the gardai were notified due to excessive litter in eldorado, compostella and avignon.
he also said that that the mnms idea was very well received and this had been conveyed to individuals on duty and to the su. but the underlying misbehaviour and lack of respect was evident, as examples were given of house parties next to an elderly lady in avilla, a single mother being called a whore in dun an oir, a car being parked in front of a family driveway in avignon, a computer being dropped from an upstairs window in dun an oir, and this is all added to the noise and litter etc.
charity week, in reality isn't going to be cancelled. but that doesn't mean that vandalism and upset should be accepted, not only by residents but by decent students also.

Canned, Derek said "out of the ordinary IS..." thats a definition. You can say what you "think" he meant, but in all fairness your posts are nothing short of childish. You might think that my views are blinkered, but at least I've done the homework having spoken to SU and Residents both on the association and not. Not one resident praised Charity Week, not one. I also think your Nazi references reflect that of the amoeba intellect you've spoken about.

Hulk's comments about Elm Park being cleaner at 3am ... are absolutely true, because there was someone i.e MnMs picking up the litter! That doesnt happen normally, and rubbish is left gather from midweek. Yes, in comparison to Galway, the estate got off lightly, as did the residents, students and Uni. But look at what happens when its left get out of control... its students reputations who suffer.

I've enjoyed previous Rag / Kollege / Charity Weeks, but I'm beginning to think that the cons outweigh the pros. I now believe that while some charities benefit, the local community suffers. That's just my humble little non-nazi, not high, and measured opinion.

ninty9er

brucechan wrote: »

spoke to a member of the SU and residents association. turns out that several calls were made to the gardai, the environmental office and the county council office in anacotty. the street sweeper truck was called twice due to the amount of broken glass on the avilla road in particular. the gardai were notified due to excessive litter in eldorado, compostella and avignon.

I am a member of the SU, the Deputy President in fact, and the entirety of my awareness from the County Council Area Officer as sent from our Receptionist at 15:13 last Friday is:

Again guys, Triona from Limerick County Council has been on the phone to thank the S.U. She has had no complaints in relation to any of the Estates.

From residents

Hi All,

Just had x, a member of Staff and Milford resident on the phone. She just wanted to thank the Students' Union and in particular the MnM’s for the excellent way that Charity Week was handled.

She was very happy with the way everything was handled and mentioned that Milford Grange looked perfect this morning.

I'm sure I can dig up more for you if you wish to continue, but yes, you are blinkered. There has been positive feedback and to suggest otherwise would be untrue. The only negative feedback put in writing was Joseph O'Shea's comment to the Limerick Post. THE ONLY one.

If I do not hear otherwise from an official source that is my read of the situation.

Sure we received complaints, but in reality, some of the expectations were unrealistic. I mean what is a green area for if not for playing football on?

The Accommodation Office received one call to complain the Gardaí weren't taking the action the resident wanted. It isn't the job of the Gardaí to do what resident's want, it is their duty to uphold the law.

I never intimated that the Gardaí received no calls, in some cases we called them due to unacceptable behaviour, that is not to say that where it occurred it wasn't dealt with.

brucechan

And is it wise to limit "the entirety of your awareness" on that information? Because with my information, you should now be even wiser!
As per plenty of other posts, again, the MnMs were higly commended, especially by residents that I spoke to.

I saw the letter Mr. O'Shea wrote and it was in his capacity as the Chairman of the local Residents Association. Therefore that ONE letter is representing the many residents (unless you'd like them to write individual ones?)

The fact you are deputy President has very little to do with the argument. Have you gone out and asked residents what they think of Charity Week? If you did I think your "read" of the situation will differ greatly.

Anyway, again I ask the question, "Do the positives outweigh the benefits for the local community?" Forget all this stuff about Rag Weeks all over the country, etc, just think of an honest answer to that question. And by the way, I enjoyed Charity Week too, I'm only taking a different look at it.

99er, you are a bit insulting to say my views are blinkered. I've gone out and spoken to people, students, staff and residents alike. I spoke to some of the committee of the Res. Assoc. and I spoke with a University staff member who has lived in Milford for decades. Its more than what you've done.
In your position, naturally you'll take a biased view, I don't blame you for that. I don't doubt that you and the SU are very well intentioned, and of course you'll defend Charity Week as its on your watch. But don't say my views are blinkered when they are based on what I have seen, experienced and listened to from those concerned, and they included MnMs and a member of your SU. (And I would say that the green area was probably being used for football in the early hours as some of the streets were.)

Come on now. Take off the SU Dep. Pres. hat and the rose tinted glasses. Would you honestly expect your parents or grandparents (or kids) to put up with that behaviour (by students or anyone else) in their estate?

Like yourself, I'll be out of here before long, and what happens in Castletroy after that won't matter a jot to me. But I think we should be mature and see the situation for what it really is.

PeakOutput

brucechan wrote: »

And is it wise to limit "the entirety of your awareness" on that information? Because with my information, you should now be even wiser!
As per plenty of other posts, again, the MnMs were higly commended, especially by residents that I spoke to.

I saw the letter Mr. O'Shea wrote and it was in his capacity as the Chairman of the local Residents Association. Therefore that ONE letter is representing the many residents (unless you'd like them to write individual ones?)

The fact you are deputy President has very little to do with the argument. Have you gone out and asked residents what they think of Charity Week? If you did I think your "read" of the situation will differ greatly.

Anyway, again I ask the question, "Do the positives outweigh the benefits for the local community?" Forget all this stuff about Rag Weeks all over the country, etc, just think of an honest answer to that question. And by the way, I enjoyed Charity Week too, I'm only taking a different look at it.

99er, you are a bit insulting to say my views are blinkered. I've gone out and spoken to people, students, staff and residents alike. I spoke to some of the committee of the Res. Assoc. and I spoke with a University staff member who has lived in Milford for decades. Its more than what you've done.
In your position, naturally you'll take a biased view, I don't blame you for that. I don't doubt that you and the SU are very well intentioned, and of course you'll defend Charity Week as its on your watch. But don't say my views are blinkered when they are based on what I have seen, experienced and listened to from those concerned, and they included MnMs and a member of your SU. (And I would say that the green area was probably being used for football in the early hours as some of the streets were.)

Come on now. Take off the SU Dep. Pres. hat and the rose tinted glasses. Would you honestly expect your parents or grandparents (or kids) to put up with that behaviour (by students or anyone else) in their estate?

Like yourself, I'll be out of here before long, and what happens in Castletroy after that won't matter a jot to me. But I think we should be mature and see the situation for what it really is.

again weather or not rag/charity week is run or not wont make a single bit of difference to the estates around the college and its not just off campus that suffers either on campus accomodation gets a thrashing that must cost the university thousands every year.

they will have just as much filth and bad behaviour as before.

it isnt the event that is the problem its the attitudes of students. There isn't much that will change that accept for proper enforcement of the law

crazykidd

lads i dont know why everyone is complaining about the students bad behaviour in limerick....just look at how well behaved they are when you compare them to other places like Galway for example....Limerick students are very well behaved in comparison to these...

sce88

PeakOutput wrote: »

its not just off campus that suffers either on campus accomodation gets a thrashing that must cost the university thousands every year.

I presume damage to on-campus accommodation is paid for by 'Campus Life Services' and they are funded by students through accommodation fees. And internal damage in Thomond would be taken from our deposits

ninty9er

sce88 wrote: »

I presume damage to on-campus accommodation is paid for by 'Campus Life Services' and they are funded by students through accommodation fees. And internal damage in Thomond would be taken from our deposits

Deposits are fairly light compared to anywhere else. Sometimes the damage can run into thousands, whether on or off campus.

scruffystack

Just to comment on my own experience of Charity Week. I don't think I've ever enjoyed a week of college more, or ever will again. Stables monday and followed by town, BIG house party at my place tuesday night, probably 40+ plus there, Went to house parties in Elm Park wed and thurs night. And to be honest I didn't see any of this unsociable behaviour being spoken about here, where I live I saw no broken glasses, even through Elm park I dont think I ever saw it cleaner for Charity Week. I heard of no complaints from any of my neighbours for the party ( where there was a fire extinguisher let off and a lot of glass broken :P) or the neighbours of the parties in Elm Park for the other house parties. I really think people are concentrating on small incidents and making out that it happens to all 10,000+ residents in Castletroy. Maybe it was just the circle of friends I spent the week with or somethin, but I think we can all hold our heads up and defend ourselves as students in UL. Most are well behaved individuals in my opinion..

seen2Bgreen

glad to see the topic generated some interesting debate. its a pity that some contributors talk complete ****e (clue, "nazis") but it seemd to be a healthy debate otherwise.
I'm of the opinion that Charity Week shouldnt necessarily be cancelled, but that UL / SU should continue with the MnMs idea and to enforce an "Enjoy with Respect" type of thing.
Is there a UL Environmental club or anything that could help push the issue of just not littering??

canned_ulkc

I think you may have missed the point there with the Nazi thing but sure that's grand....

Seems to me that opinions here just are not accepted as valid unless those expressing one have done a house to house survey. Regardless, it's my own opinion that looking to a situation where charity week is dropped is flawed as the benefits drop further and the cons increase given that there would definitely be some kind of whisper or facebook campaign to have a week of the same kind of drunken messiness with no MnM's, no gardai and no opportunity to coordinate some kind of effort by the SU.

I will agree that I find it quite hard to see the true benefit of charity week. Basically, we have a week where people get pissed and a few make a true effort for charity. The general student population appear to me to be more concerned with having enough for a good night out than sacrificing the cost of one pint and give that to charity. I think that's an awful shame.

Skyrim

I beg to differ. I enjoyed a few pints alright but when i did an activity or anything i always remembered to give something to charity.

canned_ulkc

Yep and without people like yourself there would be very little point in charity week at all.

What I mean by that comment is thank God for the people who do make the effort in participating, organising and contributing given that the likely total this year is about €10K.... I mean for a college of this size, that's less than a euro per person (of course, that's net so individual contributions are more than the implied €1)

I just think it's an awful shame that the majority appear to take the week as a major piss up and nothing more.

sinaydk

I was thinking about Charity week the other day and the mess it causes and the drinking etc etc...and I thought to put forward a suggestion on next year...

What about breaking up Charity Week into four separate Charity days during the semester? The reasons I thought of this was thus:

a) Separate days will mean that students who would have had assignments due/ on work placement etc would be able to participate in at least one Charity 'day'.

b) Students would give more to charity (maybe) because the days are spread apart..

c) Students wont be broke (and wrecked!) after a whole week of drinking

d) The four days could correspond to the four charities, therefore putting more emphasis and more awareness on each charity, therefore more raised...

e) Students can pick and choose what days they want to attend, depending on assingments due, what gigs they want to see etc..

f) Possibility of a wider and better variety of bands, djs, shows etc? UL would have more chance of booking bigger bands in 'off-peak' charity week season..


Obviously Im no expert, but these are my thoughts, there are disadvantages I know, and I know people like the idea of the week long event, but I just thought if it was split up people would be less broke, less tired, less mess would be caused (hopefully!) and have more fun?

Has this been done in any other college? Has it worked? Id love to know if it could actually work..

What do peeps think?

AlwaysRight

sinaydk wrote: »

I was thinking about Charity week the other day and the mess it causes and the drinking etc etc...and I thought to put forward a suggestion on next year...

What about breaking up Charity Week into four separate Charity days during the semester? The reasons I thought of this was thus:

a) Separate days will mean that students who would have had assignments due/ on work placement etc would be able to participate in at least one Charity 'day'.

b) Students would give more to charity (maybe) because the days are spread apart..

c) Students wont be broke (and wrecked!) after a whole week of drinking

d) The four days could correspond to the four charities, therefore putting more emphasis and more awareness on each charity, therefore more raised...

e) Students can pick and choose what days they want to attend, depending on assingments due, what gigs they want to see etc..

f) Possibility of a wider and better variety of bands, djs, shows etc? UL would have more chance of booking bigger bands in 'off-peak' charity week season..


Obviously Im no expert, but these are my thoughts, there are disadvantages I know, and I know people like the idea of the week long event, but I just thought if it was split up people would be less broke, less tired, less mess would be caused (hopefully!) and have more fun?

Has this been done in any other college? Has it worked? Id love to know if it could actually work..

What do peeps think?

So glad that someone is thinking of solutions, or possibilities at least. That's what we need more of, not the specific case by case complaints. I like the brainstorming.

Anyway for what its worth I think its a decent idea. It probably would ruin the "Charity Week" atmosphere. But if its well done you could create enough hype about each day that it might work. Its advantages certainly make sense, and would reduce the travelling students problem too as they wouldn't all be coming together in one week.

Could it be worth a go? Dunno! I'm probably not knowledgeable in the world of Rag/Charity weeks to know.

Hulk Hands

sinaydk wrote: »

I was thinking about Charity week the other day and the mess it causes and the drinking etc etc...and I thought to put forward a suggestion on next year...

What about breaking up Charity Week into four separate Charity days during the semester?

Wont work. Rag week is the best week of the year for many students, whether there's other events on or not, they will still want a full week of all out madness. If other colleges are doing it our students will want one too.

Even if there was no college involvement in the week, it would still take place. If facebook can organise all out riots in Egypt, an unofficial rag week will be a doddle.

It would be good to find ways to increase the charity taking, but to be honest, Rag week has never been about charity. At best, it's an important factor in the week, at worst it's just an excuse.

AlwaysRight

Hulk Hands wrote: »

but to be honest, Rag week has never been about charity. At best, it's an important factor in the week, at worst it's just an excuse.

I think this might be the attitude which is actually the problem. Like Raising and Giving week/charity week is supposed to be about charity. The fact that most people don't want to see it that way is different. The fact that people do use it as an excuse to get hammered(plastered, titfaced, carparked, lampshaded or whatever else you want to call it) is the flaw.

Hulk Hands

AlwaysRight wrote: »

I think this might be the attitude which is actually the problem. Like Raising and Giving week/charity week is supposed to be about charity. The fact that most people don't want to see it that way is different. The fact that people do use it as an excuse to get hammered(plastered, titfaced, carparked, lampshaded or whatever else you want to call it) is the flaw.

Yeah, I don't think it's the right attitude to have, but thats just the way it is.

I see nothing wrong with students using it as an excuse to enjoy themselves though. People say that if the students aren't interested in charity then theres no reason to have it. Yet people use Paddy's day, Stephens day as excuses for the same reason.

Rag week is held so that we can relax, celebrate and enjoy being a young student. If a few charities benefit then all the better

mahamageehad

PeakOutput wrote: »

cancelling rag week wont change peoples behaviour. people will just choose their own week to have their party and invite their friends up anyway and the same thing will happen accept it will be spread out over the semester as people do i on different weeks

another likely outcome would be a massive backlash from the students and they would use the likes of facebook to organise their own thing and it will be just as big but with none of the infrastructure the SU organises

the gardai enforcing the law would stop all the problems

Hi all

i came across this thread randomly. I'm not a UL student but I think every third level institute in the country has the problems mentioned in this thread.

So here's my tale of caution for the "Cancel RAG week" (or charity week if that's what ye're calling it now) brigade.

2 years ago in CIT they canceled Christmas day. This was mainly due to the residents in Bishopstown (the surrounding areas) complaining about the noise, the mess, the anti-social behavior, the drunkenness etc. Of course every person who was a student in CIT was responsible, (:rolleyes:) so they decided to cancel it.

Massive mistake.

Every year up to that there was activities taking place in the college all day including "Christmas dinner"- this kept a great number of students occupied in controlled conditions for the day. However when it was canceled, the students rebelled. Unofficial Xmas day was set up by the students for the students via the likes of Facebook etc. Local bars especially the student ones made sure to offer cheap alcohol and early opening hours on the day. People organized house parties starting at 12 and 1pm.

The result was absolute chaos. There were far more arrests (as far as I know, however I have no numbers to back this up and am open to correction) than another other year for public order offenses; people were puking in the streets and into gardens at 4 and 5pm, molesting each other on the street, people were urinating against walls in broad day light (this area is along a primary school run)... and CIT got absolutely slated for it, as the bad name went to the college, not the students. "Visiting" students were a massive problem as well.

This year is the second year it's been canceled and I can't imagine that it was any different (but I wasn't there so I can't be sure). So canceling an iconic college event like RAG week isn't a decision that should be taken lightly.