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Specific question for left wingers...

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Comments

  • #52
    nesf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    kev9100 wrote: »
    I mean that workers should always have the option of joining a Union. If they choose not to thats fine but no company should stop any worker from joining one.

    Should not the freedom work both ways? i.e. a company says we don't want to work with a union and makes it clear to people and those people can decide whether they want to work in a non-unionised workplace or not.


  • #53
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,942 ✭✭✭20Cent


    nesf wrote: »
    Should not the freedom work both ways? i.e. a company says we don't want to work with a union and makes it clear to people and those people can decide whether they want to work in a non-unionised workplace or not.

    Dangerous territory if you take away the right to collective bargaining.

    Whenever I hear these "libertarian" types (not saying you are one, I don't know) talking about freedom etc they are invariably talking about freedom for companies to screw workers.


  • #54
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    nesf wrote: »
    Perhaps it would be better worded as:

    Regulation's impact on business should minimised as much as possible while still achieving the necessary goals it was created for. i.e. cut down on red tape and expensive time consuming regulatory requirements without actually removing the teeth of the regulation.

    Absolutely!

    Why should it be otherwise, it's hard enough for small businesses to get on their feet as it is, they should be encouraged. After all it's private business that creates the vast majority of jobs in Ireland.


  • #55
    nesf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    20Cent wrote: »
    Dangerous territory if you take away the right to collective bargaining.

    Whenever I hear these "libertarian" types (not saying you are one, I don't know) talking about freedom etc they are invariably talking about freedom for companies to screw workers.

    Am not a libertarian, or at least not a US style one. See, I'd question the right to collective bargaining when we have things like the Government stepping in to mandate fair work practices and similar. Minimum wage, health and safety regulations etc. If we didn't have such measures by Government I'd completely agree with collective bargaining to safeguard workers but in the current environment I'm not so sure.


  • #56
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    20Cent wrote: »
    Dangerous territory if you take away the right to collective bargaining.

    Whenever I hear these "libertarian" types (not saying you are one, I don't know) talking about freedom etc they are invariably talking about freedom for companies to screw workers.

    You could have social libertarianism.


  • #57
    kev9100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭kev9100


    nesf wrote: »
    Should not the freedom work both ways? i.e. a company says we don't want to work with a union and makes it clear to people and those people can decide whether they want to work in a non-unionised workplace or not.

    No, it shouldn't imho. I believe the ultimate decision whether one should join a union must be left to the worker. It is against the company's interest to allow workers to unionise and they shouldn't have any say in the matter.


  • #58
    nesf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    kev9100 wrote: »
    No, it shouldn't imho. I believe the ultimate decision whether one should join a union must be left to the worker. It is against the company's interest to allow workers to unionise and they shouldn't have any say in the matter.

    Why should it only be about what the workers want though?


  • #59
    paul71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,317 ✭✭✭paul71


    nesf wrote: »
    I don't think we need to interfere much really. Credit Unions are doing superbly at the moment and building up life long customers because of the current banking problems, ditto with people moving away from the big two banks and giving the likes of Ulster Bank a go.




    Forgive me from being scarred by years of hard left rhetoric about the need for "fairness." :)


    I know it slightly off topic nesf, but the point you raised on credit unions is interesting. I recently attended the AGM of my local credit union because I was outraged at the Bad Debt figure, €700,000 for the last 2 years. I repeatly tried to raise the issue and asked to be elected to the credit control committee, and asked for Bi-monthly EGMs to be held so the credit committee could report directly to the members on the ongoing effort to recover what is my money and that of my neighbours.

    I was blocked from raising the questions by the board after their first feable reply, so I announced to the room that I was withdrawing all my shares on the following Monday. I know quite a few who did the same. I am of the opinion that the credit unions are a ticking time bomb as they don't have the expertise or the will to deal with bad debt.


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