Boston Marathon - new registration procedures

Krusty_Clown

carthaigh wrote: »

Scrap those questions. SNN-BOS flights go through JFK. See ye on the DUB-BOS flight on Friday the 13th.

I'm in row 13, on Friday 13th, on flight 133, which lands at 13:00.
All the omens are there for a great race.

You wouldn't want to be superstitious!

carthaigh

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'm in row 13, on Friday 13th, on flight 133, which lands at 13:00.
All the omens are there for a great race.

You wouldn't want to be superstitious!

As long as it's not a middle seat you'll be fine.
Disappointing news about Fagan.

Peckham

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'm in row 13, on Friday 13th, on flight 133, which lands at 13:00.
All the omens are there for a great race.

You wouldn't want to be superstitious!

Same flight as me. Will make sure to get seats nearby so you can mind Peckham Jnr whilst myself and Mrs Peckham get stuck into the inflight bar service. ;-)

Krusty_Clown

Peckham wrote: »

Same flight as me. Will make sure to get seats nearby so you can mind Peckham Jnr whilst myself and Mrs Peckham get stuck into the inflight bar service. ;-)

Haha. I knew '13' was unlucky.

Peckham

Quiet lunchbreak, so did a bit of research on Garmin Connect into the Newton Hills. Based on two different uploads from last year's race, I've worked out gains/losses in elevation over the four Newton Hills.

Attached is the spreadsheet, which shows:
- Columns B/C: The location in the race of the start/end of the ascent/descent
- Columns D/E: The elevation (in feet) at the start/end of the ascent/descent
- Column F: The net gain/loss in elevation (E minus D)
- Column G: The length of the hill (C minus

Has anyone done/seen similar, and how does this compare?

Strangely enough all of the Garmin Connect records I looked at (probably about a dozen at random) had Elevation Correction disabled, but I compared two in detail and they match each other in terms of the figures in the attached.

Peckham

I've now done a comparison between the Newton Hills and the routes that I'm familiar with around where I live.

If what I've posted above is correct, I'm now more wary of the hills on the course than I was before - particularly Heartbreak Hill showing a 100ft gain over half a mile!

TFBubendorfer

Peckham wrote: »

Strangely enough all of the Garmin Connect records I looked at (probably about a dozen at random) had Elevation Correction disabled

Here's mine from 2009 with elevation correction enabled:

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/13566701

Peckham

Thanks. That seems to match up to what I put in the Excel file.

figs

Peckham wrote: »

I've now done a comparison between the Newton Hills and the routes that I'm familiar with around where I live.

If what I've posted above is correct, I'm now more wary of the hills on the course than I was before - particularly Heartbreak Hill showing a 100ft gain over half a mile!

Thanks for posting this... I'd underestimated it too. The hills I normally run (Swords Road / Mobi Road) don't come close to Heartbreak Hill in terms of gradient. The closest I can find is Carrickbrack Road in Howth, near the car park on the Sutton side of the summit (see points 5.3m to 5.8m on route http://connect.garmin.com/player/141890318). That's steep enough. I can now understand why it's a challenge at 20 miles.

Hill 2 is even steeper. It is shorter, but enough to knock the wind out of you.

TFBubendorfer

None of the hills is particularly steep or particularly long, which is why comparisons with Connemara and Dingle are not really valid.

It's the fact that you have them all in a row and that your quads are most likely to be suffering because of the downhills from the early miles that makes them much tougher than what you would expect by simply looking at the numbers.

At least that's what it felt for me. It was the only marathon I ever did where I seriously contemplated pulling out.

carthaigh

figs wrote: »

Thanks for posting this... I'd underestimated it too. The hills I normally run (Swords Road / Mobi Road) don't come close to Heartbreak Hill in terms of gradient. The closest I can find is Carrickbrack Road in Howth, near the car park on the Sutton side of the summit

I'd agree with the underestimation, did some similiar sort of analysis.

In Galway the 'big' hill is Tonabrooky, it measures.
22 meters (72 feet) in .2 miles (Mile 4.93)
But to get there you'd normally run the hill at Kelehan's and run past the Westwood to Kelehan's. Those hills/climbs measure
30 meters (98 feet) in .4 miles (Mile 4)
30 meters (98 feet) in 1 mile (Mile 3)

http://connect.garmin.com/player/32006907

So a simulation of the 4 hills wouldn't be unlike
Kelehan's, Tonabrooky, .7 mile out and back, Tonabrooky, Kelehan's.

That's tough. I'd normally do half that climbing early in a run and I'd be gasping.

KentuckyPete

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

It was the only marathon I ever did where I seriously contemplated pulling out.

Jaysus

loughie

How late for a tune-up race? I am running a 10 Mile on 10th Mar and am contemplating a half-marathon (or 10KM) in Kilkenny on 31st Mar. Is it too close to Boston?
I know it will be tapering time but I do benefit from getting some race pace miles in? Any thoughts?

Krusty_Clown

loughie wrote: »

How late for a tune-up race? I am running a 10 Mile on 10th Mar and am contemplating a half-marathon (or 10KM) in Kilkenny on 31st Mar. Is it too close to Boston?
I know it will be tapering time but I do benefit from getting some race pace miles in? Any thoughts?

Pfizinger and Douglas Advanced marathoning plans usually include a 10k tune-up race two weeks before your goal marathon, so the 10k on the 31st March should be fine. You could do the half marathon, if you're confident enough that you can stick to marathon pace (or slower), without being dragged into an all-out half-marathon race. Even then, 13 miles @marathon pace two weeks before Boston, is cutting it pretty fine (though I plan to do the same thing in Connemara). It really depends on your post race recovery. You definitely don't want to be introducing niggles, that close to Boston. No problems with the 10mile race on the 10th March.

KentuckyPete

+1 on the Krusty post.

I'm going to do the Kinvara Half on March 3rd and might do the Mallow 10 on March 19th. That will be it I think.

Meanwhile, I got good news from our man MacMillan yesterday - my 64:13 at The Dungarvan 10 was my first ever sub-3 equivalent (MacMillan equivalent 2:59:52). Very encouraging as I face into the next ten weeks!

Peckham

Much more important than all this training and race strategy talk, Adidas have release details of the Boston 2012 clothing range - including the marathon jacket, which apparently is the souvenir item if you run Boston.

Full range
Marathon jacket

This development is the cause of much excitement over on the Runners World forum!

KentuckyPete

Bright red? The tracksuit top might be more my style!

wideball

I'm planning to do the Meath Spring Half Marathon on March 4th and Wicklow Way Trail on March 24th.

I plan to race the half but use the trail race as a training run. Enjoyed the race last year so want to do it again and the hill running I guess will help for Boston.

TFBubendorfer

Peckham wrote: »

the marathon jacket, which apparently is the souvenir item if you run Boston.

That's correct. It's almost compulsory.

I found it really funny the next day, the massive number of people walking around Boston wearing the same jacket, many of them clearly in discomfort.

Oh, and the security guard at the airport waved me past all the queues straight through the VIP gate when he saw mine ("You are a hero, sir").

Glad mine is blue, though.

KentuckyPete

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

That's correct. It's almost compulsory.

I found it really funny the next day, the massive number of people walking around Boston wearing the same jacket, many of them clearly in discomfort.

Oh, and the security guard at the airport waved me past all the queues straight through the VIP gate when he saw mine ("You are a hero, sir").

Glad mine is blue, though.

So, do you buy it in advance and bring it to Boston? Or buy it at the expo? Do you have to provide proof of entry to get one? Can't imagine Adidas turing down business from non-entrants...

Krusty_Clown

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Oh, and the security guard at the airport waved me past all the queues straight through the VIP gate when he saw mine ("You are a hero, sir").

Are you sure it wasn't 'the limp'? He might have thought you were returning from a tour in Afghanistan.

Peckham

Anyone can buy them, and according to the thread on Runners World it's worth buying them in advance (not sure if adidas website ships to Ireland?), or from a downtown retailer in Boston rather than at the Expo (which is understandably very busy with long queues).

TFBubendorfer

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Are you sure it wasn't 'the limp'? He might have thought you were returning from a tour in Afghanistan.

Ha ha, very funny. :rolleyes:

Of course it's on open sale, but it is extremely bad karma to wear a Boston jacket if you haven't done the race. You know, a curse, a bit like the one with the crown jewels.

carthaigh

Jacket isn't too bad but could do without half the back of it being emblazoned with a unicorn. Up until that it was reasonably suttle. Probably worth the price for a bit of airport queue skipping. Would ye wear it back at home though?

On the 1/2 marathon 2 weeks before Boston. I ran two 10 milers within 2 weeks last year. I really struggled in the second one, definitley too close to race twice at those distances. Don't know about ye but I find it very hard to hold back in a race no matter what I've promised myself before. It might be too risky if you have the same trait.

Murta

Peckham wrote: »

Anyone can buy them, and according to the thread on Runners World it's worth buying them in advance (not sure if adidas website ships to Ireland?), or from a downtown retailer in Boston rather than at the Expo (which is understandably very busy with long queues).

shopadidas.com will only ship to a US address. I wasn't interested in one initially as have too many running jackets as it but "red" is my favorate colour and I love the Uniconr on the back. Now, I can't wait to get my hands on one.

loughie

Will definitely run the 10 mile on Mar 10. Have not made decision on whether I run the half-mara or the 10K at end of Mar. I recover quickly enough from races so I'm in two minds. I will at least run the 10K.

As for the Boston jacket, I hope the small is a small

Peckham

loughie wrote: »

As for the Boston jacket, I hope the small is a small

Agree - hopefully it's not an American "small"

KentuckyPete

Meanwhile, away from the jackets, am still obsessing about the course profile

I printed off the profile pieces from the BAA website, pasted them together and hung them on the wall. The longer horizontal definitely helps!

I reckon the planning at this stage is
Mile 1 to 5 - Serious downhill. Target marathon pace minus 15 secs
Mile 5 to 15 - Ups and downs but generally a "normal" profile. Target marathon pace
Mile 15 to 21 - Serious descent followed by the four Newton hills. Target marathon pace plus 13 secs
Mile 21 to 26 - Steady downhill. Target marathon pace

The big danger is losing everything in that first five miles. Still, even if I don't make these times I'll probably still use those course divisions. Something tells me this ain't gonna be my last post on this

Speedy44

KentuckyPete wrote: »

Meanwhile, away from the jackets, am still obsessing about the course profile

I printed off the profile pieces from the BAA website, pasted them together and hung them on the wall. The longer horizontal definitely helps!

I reckon the planning at this stage is
Mile 1 to 5 - Serious downhill. Target marathon pace minus 15 secs
Mile 5 to 15 - Ups and downs but generally a "normal" profile. Target marathon pace
Mile 15 to 21 - Serious descent followed by the four Newton hills. Target marathon pace plus 13 secs
Mile 21 to 26 - Steady downhill. Target marathon pace

The big danger is losing everything in that first five miles. Still, even if I don't make these times I'll probably still use those course divisions. Something tells me this ain't gonna be my last post on this

Its very easy to get carried away in the first 5mls, ditto for halfway when you feel like a movie star running past all the screaming girls at Wellsley College :rolleyes:
I would be careful not to go to fast on that section. I think that is the mistake a lot of people make, which is why they find the Newton Hills so hard. They are not too bad really, as long as you have paced yourself ok;)

TFBubendorfer

KentuckyPete wrote: »

Mile 1 to 5 - Serious downhill. Target marathon pace minus 15 secs

Speaking from personal experience, I think this is too fast.

Peckham

Registration for the BAA 5k which is one the day before the marathon opens today at 3pm Irish time. Runs along part of the marathon course and finishes on the marathon finish line. Might be of interest for anyone travelling with a partner who also runs.

More detail here.

loughie

Peckham wrote: »

Registration for the BAA 5k which is one the day before the marathon opens today at 3pm Irish time. Runs along part of the marathon course and finishes on the marathon finish line. Might be of interest for anyone travelling with a partner who also runs.

More detail here.

Signed up the OH, she was quite happy until I told her the race started at 8am

Peckham

loughie wrote: »

Peckham wrote: »

Registration for the BAA 5k which is one the day before the marathon opens today at 3pm Irish time. Runs along part of the marathon course and finishes on the marathon finish line. Might be of interest for anyone travelling with a partner who also runs.

More detail here.

Signed up the OH, she was quite happy until I told her the race started at 8am

Jet lag will have her up early anyway!

TheRoadRunner

KentuckyPete wrote: »

Meanwhile, away from the jackets, am still obsessing about the course profile

I printed off the profile pieces from the BAA website, pasted them together and hung them on the wall. The longer horizontal definitely helps!

I reckon the planning at this stage is
Mile 1 to 5 - Serious downhill. Target marathon pace minus 15 secs
Mile 5 to 15 - Ups and downs but generally a "normal" profile. Target marathon pace
Mile 15 to 21 - Serious descent followed by the four Newton hills. Target marathon pace plus 13 secs
Mile 21 to 26 - Steady downhill. Target marathon pace

The big danger is losing everything in that first five miles. Still, even if I don't make these times I'll probably still use those course divisions. Something tells me this ain't gonna be my last post on this

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Speaking from personal experience, I think this is too fast.

This is something I stressed about as well but our good friends at Nike helped me out in 2007. I was suposed to post this a while back.

In the expo they were giving out pace bands that take course profile into consideration. I was targeting 2.50 which is 6.29 pace. As you can see from the pace band the first 4 miles are fast so with even running/effort (i.e 6.29 effort) I was expected to run 6.16, 6.24, 6.22 & 6.17. Mile 21 is a toughie so pace drops out to 6.52. These pace bands were free and you could get one tailored for your time. Have never seen them in other marathons but would definitely scout around expo looking for them if you can.

KentuckyPete

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

This is something I stressed about as well but our good friends at Nike helped me out in 2007. I was suposed to post this a while back.

In the expo they were giving out pace bands that take course profile into consideration. I was targeting 2.50 which is 6.29 pace. As you can see from the pace band the first 4 miles are fast so with even running/effort (i.e 6.29 effort) I was expected to run 6.16, 6.24, 6.22 & 6.17. Mile 21 is a toughie so pace drops out to 6.52. These pace bands were free and you could get one tailored for your time. Have never seen them in other marathons but would definitely scout around expo looking for them if you can.

Wow, that's a detailed pace-band for sure. Did you keep to the times RR? Did you find that putting the same effort in each for each mile gave you the outcome you needed?

Great to get this though - while it's a bit better adjusted than my suggestion above it trends roughly the same way.

TheRoadRunner

KentuckyPete wrote: »

Wow, that's a detailed pace-band for sure. Did you keep to the times RR? Did you find that putting the same effort in each for each mile gave you the outcome you needed?

Great to get this though - while it's a bit better adjusted than my suggestion above it trends roughly the same way.

Yeah kept the pace for the majority of miles. Was reassuring to know that when you run a slow mile it may be expected. I think my mile 21 was even slower than 6.51.

By the way the jackets rock lads. What ever about getting it beforehand don't wear it until you've ran the marathon. The auld lads will rip the piss out of you, I'm talking from experience I was in a bar getting some food on the Saturday and the majority of patrons had their jackets on. Some dating back to the late 1980s. They were like a badge of honour.

One other thing, if you are hanging on for a day or two they sell off unsold expo gear in some downtown sports shops. A friend of mine has gone twice so I'll find out the name of the shops.

KentuckyPete

So... I used RR's paceband to build a similar one for 2:59:59 pace by multiplying each mile time by the ratio of 2:59:59 to 2:50:00.

Target pace for 2:59:59 is 6:52. On the pace band, blue miles are run faster than target pace, orange miles are slower and green miles are bang on. Third column shows the cumulative times if running at a steady 6;52.



A race between two lads running these splits would be a TV spectacular.

"Uneven Runner races off and leaves 6:52 Runner in the dust. Uneven Runner never quite gets clear though - 6:52 vitally maintains visual contact and almost catches him on a number of occasions before finally moving ahead in mile 20. Heartbreak Hill looks decisive as 6:52 steams on, widening the gap with every stride. Uneven Runner isn't finished yet though - he's trained hard and done extensive calculations ahead of the big day - he fairly flies down the other side of Heartbreak Hill and closes the gap steadily - almost drawing level at mile 25. However, 6:52 grits his teeth and just stays in front through mile 26. Then in an unfortunate Excel rounding error 6:52 gains two seconds on the run-in and breasts the tape ahead of a tired but gallant Uneven Runner."

I reckon this pace band (minus the third column ) would be a good aid on the day - as RR says, it lets you know where the bad miles are and also gives you a good idea of your target cumulative time along the way. Interestingly halfway is also scheduled for around 1:29:34 - no major shift from a "flat" race target split

TheRoadRunner

I just realised miles 20-21 takes in heartbreak hill (the slowest one according to the pace band). As you can see you shouldn't loose too much time on it. It may catch some people out who don't throw a few hills into their runs every now and then though

Itziger

KentuckyPete wrote: »

So... I used RR's paceband to build a similar one for 2:59:59 pace by multiplying each mile time by the ratio of 2:59:59 to 2:50:00.

Target pace for 2:59:59 is 6:52. On the pace band, blue miles are run faster than target pace, orange miles are slower and green miles are bang on. Third column shows the cumulative times if running at a steady 6;52.



A race between two lads running these splits would be a TV spectacular.

"Uneven Runner races off and leaves 6:52 Runner in the dust. Uneven Runner never quite gets clear though - 6:52 vitally maintains visual contact and almost catches him on a number of occasions before finally moving ahead in mile 20. Heartbreak Hill looks decisive as 6:52 steams on, widening the gap with every stride. Uneven Runner isn't finished yet though - he's trained hard and done extensive calculations ahead of the big day - he fairly flies down the other side of Heartbreak Hill and closes the gap steadily - almost drawing level at mile 25. However, 6:52 grits his teeth and just stays in front through mile 26. Then in an unfortunate Excel rounding error 6:52 gains two seconds on the run-in and breasts the tape ahead of a tired but gallant Uneven Runner."

I reckon this pace band (minus the third column ) would be a good aid on the day - as RR says, it lets you know where the bad miles are and also gives you a good idea of your target cumulative time along the way. Interestingly halfway is also scheduled for around 1:29:34 - no major shift from a "flat" race target split

Good to see you're not taking this Boston malarkey too seriously Pete. Nice and chilled - just give it your best, see how it goes like.

Krusty_Clown

KentuckyPete wrote: »

I reckon this pace band (minus the third column ) would be a good aid on the day - as RR says, it lets you know where the bad miles are and also gives you a good idea of your target cumulative time along the way. Interestingly halfway is also scheduled for around 1:29:34 - no major shift from a "flat" race target split

Would you not aim for a more aggressive time like 2:58 and train for it too? Too many people (myself and Peckham included) have run 3:00:xx in a race. It's so difficult to get it spot on, when the margins are so tight.

KentuckyPete

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Would you not aim for a more aggressive time like 2:58 and train for it too? Too many people (myself and Peckham included) have run 3:00:xx in a race. It's so difficult to get it spot on, when the margins are so tight.

For sure Krusty. The aim will definitely be to be ahead of those splits - but not until the second half of the race.

TFBubendorfer

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Would you not aim for a more aggressive time like 2:58 and train for it too? Too many people (myself and Peckham included) have run 3:00:xx in a race. It's so difficult to get it spot on, when the margins are so tight.

Dead right, of course. I reckoned I was in 2:55 shape for my sub-3 but did not have the best of days. However, that little bit of margin allowed me to sneak home in 2:59.

carthaigh

From http://www.marathonguide.com/fitnesscalcs/PaceBandCreator.cfm

To make the wristband stronger (and waterproof), cover the band lengthwise with strips of clear tape: front, back and side edges.
Trim tape with scissors.

In case any of ye are prone to sweating a little during a marathon.

I have seen pacing charts at other expos but nothign as fancy (or useful as the wristband) The Two Oceans pacing chart takes the hills into account.

Krusty_Clown

Not sure that my OH is going to be bothered to get out of bed, but for those of you who know the area, are there any recommendations for somewhere mid-way along the route, that is easily accessible by public transport (from the city), where one could spectate and hand out a drink etc?

TFBubendorfer

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Not sure that my OH is going to be bothered to get out of bed, but for those of you who know the area, are there any recommendations for somewhere mid-way along the route, that is easily accessible by public transport (from the city), where one could spectate and hand out a drink etc?

If she takes one of the green T lines she could easily get to either Newton (mile 19), Boston College (mile 21) or Cleveland Circle (mile 22.5) if that's not too late. The lines are very busy on marathon day, though.

Other lines go further out, but might not run as often.

There are official drinks stations every mile. Not sure why you'd need any more than that ...

Krusty_Clown

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

There are official drinks stations every mile. Not sure why you'd need any more than that ...

Perhaps I fancy a beer?

KentuckyPete

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

If she takes one of the green T lines she could easily get to either Newton (mile 19), Boston College (mile 21) or Cleveland Circle (mile 22.5) if that's not too late. The lines are very busy on marathon day, though.

Other lines go further out, but might not run as often.

There are official drinks stations every mile. Not sure why you'd need any more than that ...

Yeah from all reports the course is very well served by trains - albeit crowded trains on race day. There are a few sections where the train even runs along the route.

Assuming you'll want that drink / unique support in the "difficult" second part then the MBTA Boston College stop is ideal for a short walk to Heartbreak Hill. Alternatively OH can get the train out to Woodland and cheer you around the big bend at Mile 17.8 as you kick into the first of the three Newton Hills.

She'll still have to get moving well ahead of time though...

Speedy44

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Perhaps I fancy a beer?

They'll be loads of Boston College students having bbq's on Comm Ave who would be happy to accomodate that request Krusty !

I always used to love running over the newton hills as the frat boys were shouting at you that 'you can do it', with a beer in one hand and a hot dog in the other. The fumes coming off some of them was enough to get you tipsy

Krusty_Clown

Speedy44 wrote: »

They'll be loads of Boston College students having bbq's on Comm Ave who would be happy to accomodate that request Krusty !

I always used to love running over the newton hills as the frat boys were shouting at you that 'you can do it', with a beer in one hand and a hot dog in the other. The fumes coming off some of them was enough to get you tipsy

That's good to know. Should we get a strong head-wind, I'll make myself cosy outside one of the frat houses, and she can come pick me up.

TFBubendorfer

Speedy44 wrote: »

I always used to love running over the newton hills as the frat boys were shouting at you that 'you can do it', with a beer in one hand and a hot dog in the other. The fumes coming off some of them was enough to get you tipsy

Yes, from what I remember Boston College was just as loud as the Wellesley scream tunnel, but the B.C. screamers were significantly less good looking! :rolleyes: