Alice : Madness returns (EPIC)

Helix

i think its a bit of a strange one

i honestly dont get the lack of love

does not compute

deathrider

The dole did a number on me this week, so it looks like Alice will have to wait till next week to be purchased.

Potential-Monke

I bought a copy off Amazon last saturday, hoping that it would be here waiting for me when i got back home from being in Limerick for the last 3 days. It's not. And i could have bought it in HMV in Limerick today too. I can't wait for this to come!!!

Chairman Meow

Good god. I just did chapter 4, that is honestly the best thing ive played so far this year. Absolutely brilliant.

GIANT ALICE SMASH!!!

Also did the introduction to chapter 5. That is honest to god possibly the most **** up thing played in a videogame since sticking your hand down the vomit filled toilet in Silent Hill 2 Possibly the most deranged thing ive ever seen in gaming. American McGee, my ****ing hat goes off to you

Mr E

Quite enjoying this actually.... camera is a bit crap, but the game is solid - you can tell they put a lot of imagination into it.

CramCycle

Just got Alice one, will start a playthrough after work as its been too long, start on Alice 2 at the weekend, looking forward to it after all the positive reviews here.

AceCard Jones

CramCycle wrote:

Just got Alice one, will start a playthrough after work as its been too long, start on Alice 2 at the weekend, looking forward to it after all the positive reviews here.
Today 23:20

I played the free copy of the first game before starting on Madness returns, while I enjoyed and appreciated the art style and old nostalgic polished N64 Graphics, the platforming/combat mechanics were painful at times. There is no comparison between 1 and 2 so if you find yourself hating the first one don't worry the second one plays completely different.

Also besides one or two "I know what that/he/she is" moments, playing the first one before the second one didn't really give any benefits besides the achievements.

After finishing Alice Madness Returns, it definitely deserved an 8/10 minimum.
Without spoiling I'll leave it at that.

For those who have finished it:

I felt the game ended rather abruptly, having gone through the game expecting 6 chapters, finding out the last one is literally just the boss was a bit of a disappointment. And the ending itself left a bit to be desired after building it up so well over the course of the game. A game with as messed up a theme as Alice, you expect a bit of a convoluted explanation at the end. This in the first game didn't surprise me as it wasn't very story driven and is over a decade old. That's the only reason I'd mark it down to 8/10 really. Game play was fantastic, platforming was fun, combat was polished and had just enough depth to it. Is it wrong I just wanted it to keep going?

calex71

Finished it there at earlier, enjoyed it over all. Didn't feel it dragged out at all.

Rare I finish a game and have some many images of scenery etc still in my mind.

The ending sequence was

pretty dark actually and thats saying something given the over all tone, did I take it correctly? The doc was pimping /fiddling kids?

Headshot

calex71 wrote: »

The ending sequence was

pretty dark actually and thats saying something given the over all tone, did I take it correctly? The doc was pimping /fiddling kids?

Yes

So I just finished this game

It gets my vote for GOTY. I just loved it tbh from the darkness to the great scenery

The imagination which went in to create the game like the weird enemies is terrific

AceCard Jones

@Calex:

I'm not too sure, the thought definitely crossed my mind, but:

Are we to think he did the same to Alice? Or just that he was manipulating her and the other kids to be his vision of perfect? Impressionable and manageable. Plus he and the lawyer made a fair bit of money from Alice and I'm sure other patients too.

You get a memory concerning the lawyer at one point and he seems to be telling Alice any good Woman/Girl would have images of their dead family done in marble, and that he would commission a sculptor for it. I think the ending could be what any individual player perceives it as. Or maybe I'm complicating it and he's just a crazy old pimp.

Headshot

AceCard Jones wrote: »

@Calex:

I'm not too sure, the thought definitely crossed my mind, but:

Are we to think he did the same to Alice? Or just that he was manipulating her and the other kids to be his vision of perfect? Impressionable and manageable. Plus he and the lawyer made a fair bit of money from Alice and I'm sure other patients too.

You get a memory concerning the lawyer at one point and he seems to be telling Alice any good Woman/Girl would have images of their dead family done in marble, and that he would commission a sculptor for it. I think the ending could be what any individual player perceives it as. Or maybe I'm complicating it and he's just a crazy old pimp.

He was fiddling kids imo, that's what he was doing in the Alice's sisters room

AceCard Jones

Headshot wrote: »

He was fiddling kids imo, that's what he was doing in the Alice's sisters room

Very true.

calex71

Yes I took it the same way. Like I said dark in a disturbing not expecting it in a game kind of way.


Contender for best named enemy ever goes to

B!tch Baby

Headshot

calex71 wrote: »

Yes I took it the same way. Like I said dark in a disturbing not expecting it in a game kind of way.


Contender for best named enemy ever goes to

B!tch Baby

I lol that big time

Loving this game, you could just go round looking at the scenery all day

GOTY for me so far :pac:

ShadowHearth

I will repeat myself, but I still can't get over it. How the he'll all reviewers hate it and gamers love it?!

I only got a bit more in to chapter 2, and I usually hate such scenery in video games, but in Alice it is very well done.

Fair play to creatures for all that imagination.

Lers say this: I loved the way ship was "packed" in chapter 2 . I so want screenshot!!!

Chairman Meow

The neogaf thread for this is brilliant. There isnt a single complaint in it and its gone from initial pessimism at the bad reviews to the entire thread being filled with nothing but praise for the game

Still cant get over that opening to chapter 5. I woke up thinking about it! Ive never seen something so disturbing in a game. It actually takes an absolute dump all over other 'mature' games like heavy rain. This is how you do genuinely ****ing creepy, disturbing scenes. God this game is absolutely ****ing brilliant.

Genghiz Cohen

Alright fine!
I'll buy it, ffs....

Chairman Meow

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Alright fine!
I'll buy it, ffs....

you wont regret it...hopefully

I re-read the EG 5/10 joke review earlier...and it actually made me angry. So i wrote another rant where i review their review

http://thefacepalmedgamer.wordpress.com/2011/06/22/reviewing-the-review-eurogamers-alice-madness-returns-review/

warning: contains copious use of the C-bomb and spoiler for what happens at the beginning of chapter 5

Mr E

Its a decent critique, but would be just as convincing without the personal attacks against the reviewer (IMHO, etc.)

Chairman Meow

Mr E wrote: »

Its a decent critique, but would be just as convincing without the personal attacks against the reviewer (IMHO, etc.)

Thanks...but thats just how i roll

nevaeh-2die-4

Just put an hour into it

Amazed so far, the art work and characters are amazing, the originality .

it’s a crime this game is getting slated, with bad reviews.
This game is virtually unknown, due to lack of advertising and videos, which is bad marketing decision,
with the reviews its getting people are just going to pass it by and pick up games like la noire which in no way deserves the hype and love its getting,

don’t get me wrongs it’s a good game but gets extremely boring with little or no change to the game play and mission from start to finish

I can see that its money that pays for positive reviews these days,

Seem like the Alice devs, didn’t give any handouts, thus the ****ty reviews on an excellent game

Helix

nevaeh-2die-4 wrote: »

I can see that its money that pays for positive reviews these days,

Seem like the Alice devs, didn’t give any handouts, thus the ****ty reviews on an excellent game

thats absolute nonsense

Headshot

Helix wrote: »

thats absolute nonsense

your to quick to defend yourself Helix

Helix

Headshot wrote: »

your to quick to defend yourself Helix

the whole idea of companies buying scores is farcical though. it doesnt happen, the only way anything resembling it happens is via advertising, which is still very rare

for a start promotion is NOTHING to do with the developers, and its EA behind alice on the publishing front, so it's not like it's a mickey mouse company with no money to spend

Headshot

Helix wrote: »

the whole idea of companies buying scores is farcical though. it doesnt happen, the only way anything resembling it happens is via advertising, which is still very rare

for a start promotion is NOTHING to do with the developers, and its EA behind alice on the publishing front, so it's not like it's a mickey mouse company with no money to spend

i was only joking...

But arent ign dodgy that way

CramCycle

Helix wrote: »

the whole idea of companies buying scores is farcical though. it doesnt happen, the only way anything resembling it happens is via advertising, which is still very rare

Did someone mention GameSpot :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Helix

no idea, dont read any game sites apart from kotaku the odd time to be honest. but the whole idea that publishers give reviewers a big sack of cash to say they like the game is ridiculous in the extreme

stuff goes on, but its subtle, and its nothing like people think. as i mentioned there have been cases where someone has threatened to pull advertising, or the more common thing where the publishers' pr company put on a load of events and treat the journos like gods in order to get favourable coverage, but that's not really the same thing. theres never anything implied by it

Genghiz Cohen

Since you have to pay to get a review anyway, I'm sure 'friends' can be made in the process.

Genghiz Cohen

Helix wrote: »

stuff goes on, but its subtle, and its nothing like people think.

Except Edios: Give us a the full of your front cover and at least an 8/10 and you get an early copy to review.

Helix

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Since you have to pay to get a review anyway

erm

no you dont?

where on earth did you hear such nonsense

Helix

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Except Edios: Give us a the full of your front cover and at least an 8/10 and you get an early copy to review.

early reviews are different

i could tell you at least 5 BIG companies who offer embargo breaks in exchange for minimum score thresholds, but that's not buying scores

i usually post up here when anyone is operating a policy like that for a certain game

CramCycle

Helix wrote: »

early reviews are different

i could tell you at least 5 BIG companies who offer embargo breaks in exchange for minimum score thresholds, but that's not openly buying scores but its not far from it because a games company wouldn't need to do it if their games were good enough

i usually post up here when anyone is operating a policy like that for a certain game

FYP :pac:

To be fair it is kind of like buying scores if a website want to seem that they are the first to get out a review ie exclusivity is more important than dignity.

Also since you occasionally read Kotaku I included their brief coverage of the EIDOS incident:

http://kotaku.com/328244/gamespot-editor-fired-over-kane--lynch-review

Helix

i mentioned the eidos thing earlier. thats not buying scores, thats a company pulling advertising, or threatening to do so

its slightly different, and it does VERY OCCASIONALLY happen, but it's not quite what many people think

there seems to be this idea that companies send a game to reviewers along with a big pile of cash for good reviews. it doesnt happen. reviewers, for the most part, have nothing to do with ad sales, so something like the kane and lynch thing is rarely a factor

re the good enough thing, Mass Effect 2 came with the offer of breaking embargo if you gave it a certain score, and that's certainly rated quite highly by many (not by me)

ShadowHearth

Helix wrote: »

no idea, dont read any game sites apart from kotaku the odd time to be honest. but the whole idea that publishers give reviewers a big sack of cash to say they like the game is ridiculous in the extreme

stuff goes on, but its subtle, and its nothing like people think. as i mentioned there have been cases where someone has threatened to pull advertising, or the more common thing where the publishers' pr company put on a load of events and treat the journos like gods in order to get favourable coverage, but that's not really the same thing. theres never anything implied by it

No offence m8, but I would not call you a traditional reviewer these days. You are a gamer in the first place and then reviewer, which very very good in my eyes. I get a feeling that game reviewers became some cynical critics ( love you yatzee ) and forgot theyr roots of gamers. Very similar to cocky movies critics.

You know more about it, but I still think alot of reviews are bought In major websites. It would not be like this: here is 5 quid, now give us 9! The way I see it: reviewer can't be a total dick to a game which is advertised everywhere on it's website!!! It will look bad if someone destroys game which is advertised on theyr own website. The company wont buy advertisements in website if they give them hugely bad reviews. Perfect example is duke and gearbox. They announced that they will be more selective with who they will give to review theyr future games.

This is a reason u don't trust review much these days. Duke was a good example, game was not that good, but it did not deserved 3/10. Alice is a perfect example, where gamers just love it, and reviewers just destroy it.

Btw our little forum is not the only place, who love this game!

Helix

ShadowHearth wrote: »

No offence m8, but I would not call you a traditional reviewer these days. You are a gamer in the first place and then reviewer

unfortunately its a long time since i played a game for any reason other than it was work

ShadowHearth

Helix wrote: »

unfortunately its a long time since i played a game for any reason other than it was work

Yes, but s far I could trust your reviews 100%. I bought 2 games on your review alone. Bouth games were spot on. Thing is you still look at the game as gamer and you keep in mind one important part that most modern reviewers forget: fun factor.

I really hope you will get some more time with games m8.I dot of know the feeling. I cook for living and I haven't cooked at home in years . Specially when I am pastry chef, misses disappointed .

CramCycle

Helix wrote: »

unfortunately its a long time since i played a game for any reason other than it was work

Part of me wants to give you a hug

Think we should leave the paying reviewers bit aside though now as it is kind of derailling the thread. We have different views on what constitutes paying for a bumped score and I'm happy to leave it at that.

Still replaying original Alice on work breaks, liking it but time hasn't done its visuals any favours (IMO) but still a decent romp so far and probably was stunning in its day (I can't remember very well). Hope to get it done on the weekend. Waiting on Alice 2 to arrive by post 28euro brand new from Amazon compared to 40 in local shop and 50 on steam.

Potential-Monke

CramCycle wrote: »

Hope to get it done on the weekend. Waiting on Alice 2 to arrive by post 28euro brand new from Amazon compared to 40 in local shop and 50 on steam.

My copy arrived today, and because of internet peoples i am going to play the original first (5 or 6 hours i believe) and then get stuck into Madness Returns. Can't wait, first game is at 45% installed!!! And i'm off work tomorrow night so marathon gaming session of Alice to be had until 6am Saturday! Yurt!

seraphimvc

absolutely love the artwork and the darkish goth theme. reminded me of the violence alice comic which i love.

the battle tho, is really average. the control scheme is defo made for consoles, i am playing on pc so i feel really awkward:( it is average like many critics said, nothing oustanding but it is fine. i am saying this as a huge action games fan so the battle system is a let down to me. the ridiculous dodge and jump-glide are game breaking and i dont like that they try to maintain the difficulty by swarming you with alot enemies at the same time - it just feels cheap. and then the repetitiveness grows really quick too.

overall i think that the graphics is the main selling point and followed by a mildly interesting story. most western action games suffer in the battle system anyway but they are always backed up by huge budget graphics and more polished gameplay. i kinda understand why most critics keep saying that Alice2 is average. i really feel like the team could have spent more time on polishing this game. Recommend it only when the price gets cheap. or unless you really like this artwork :P

Chairman Meow

seraphimvc wrote: »

absolutely love the artwork and the darkish goth theme. reminded me of the violence alice comic which i love.

the battle tho, is really average. the control scheme is defo made for consoles, i am playing on pc so i feel really awkward:( it is average like many critics said, nothing oustanding but it is fine. i am saying this as a huge action games fan so the battle system is a let down to me. the ridiculous dodge and jump-glide are game breaking and i dont like that they try to maintain the difficulty by swarming you with alot enemies at the same time - it just feels cheap. and then the repetitiveness grows really quick too.

overall i think that the graphics is the main selling point and followed by a mildly interesting story. most western action games suffer in the battle system anyway but they are always backed up by huge budget graphics and more polished gameplay. i kinda understand why most critics keep saying that Alice2 is average. i really feel like the team could have spent more time on polishing this game. Recommend it only when the price gets cheap. or unless you really like this artwork :P

Each to his own, but i dont know how anyone couldnt enjoy the combat in the game. Maybe its worse on a kb&m, i used a pad on my pc and found it fine. If anything i enjoy its combat more than i did god of war 3/bayonetta.
I like how theres a right weapon for almost every enemy, and when it makes you fight multiple enemies i didnt find it cheap, i thought it was an excuse to get you to mix up the action with each of the weapons.

Genghiz Cohen

Helix wrote: »

erm

no you dont?

where on earth did you hear such nonsense

GF released an iPhone game, no mainstream site would do a review without being paid.

Helix wrote: »

early reviews are different

i could tell you at least 5 BIG companies who offer embargo breaks in exchange for minimum score thresholds, but that's not buying scores

i usually post up here when anyone is operating a policy like that for a certain game

I think it is.
You don't have to use money to buy something.

Helix

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

GF released an iPhone game, no mainstream site would do a review without being paid.

was the game absolutely woeful?

Genghiz Cohen

Helix wrote: »

was the game absolutely woeful?

Anyone that did review it gave a good one.
Except one guy, but that flaw was fixed

(Would it be considered shilling to post a link? )

CramCycle

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

GF released an iPhone game, no mainstream site would do a review without being paid.

You lost me here?!? are these two unrelated statements, poor me is confused

Genghiz Cohen

CramCycle wrote: »

You lost me here?!? are these two unrelated statements, poor me is confused

I think I see what you did there...

CramCycle

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

(Would it be considered shilling to post a link? )

It may be considered advertising, I'd appreciate a link. Living with an iphone game developer for a couple of years and he just got shipped out to San Fran to be a project lead

CramCycle

Unless of course you are the most elaborate sock puppet since the internet began :eek: and your 3000+ posts have led to this one piece of misdirection:P, the mind of me is intrigued regardless :pac:

Helix

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Anyone that did review it gave a good one.
Except one guy, but that flaw was fixed

(Would it be considered shilling to post a link? )

what happened there is very uncommon, but i suspect it was a case that they simply werent bothered reviewing a no mark game (which i mean without any disrespect) when they had plenty of games from proper developers to review

what time of year was the game released? i suspect youd have more luck with something like that between july and september

Genghiz Cohen

CramCycle wrote: »

Not if you tell us how you are shilling in which case it ceases to be shilling although may be considered advertising, either way, I'd appreciate a link.

Ahem...

Helix wrote: »

what happened there is very uncommon, but i suspect it was a case that they simply werent bothered reviewing a no mark game (which i mean without any disrespect) when they had plenty of games from proper developers to review

Maybe it's different for big name publishers, but any site with half a name for itself wanted money.
I was very surprised when she said Edge (Praised be it's glorious name) were the same.

Helix wrote: »

what time of year was the game released? i suspect youd have more luck with something like that between july and september

Went live like 3 months ago.