Dead Island

Sand

He's dissapointed by weapon degradation in a FPS RPG style game? Its been a part of the genre since at least System Shock.

Spunge

grizzly wrote: »

Disappointing impressions from kotaku...

That actually appeals to me. Makes it sound more like an RPG. Id hate if it was just like L4D

grizzly

Sand wrote: »

He's dissapointed by weapon degradation in a FPS RPG style game? Its been a part of the genre since at least System Shock.

No, he's disappointed because a new pipe that he's found can't be used because it's a "level 5 pipe" despite being identical to the weapon he's been using.

DaveDaRave

grizzly wrote: »

No, he's disappointed because a new pipe that he's found can't be used because it's a "level 5 pipe" despite being identical to the weapon he's been using.

But this pipe is level 5 !

YouSavedMyLife

grizzly wrote: »

No, he's disappointed because a new pipe that he's found can't be used because it's a "level 5 pipe" despite being identical to the weapon he's been using.

Identical in stats or looks? If its looks and the stats are actually better than the previous one he had then hes a plonker. Unless hes not ment to be taken seriously.

Ciaran500

YouSavedMyLife wrote: »

Identical in stats or looks? If its looks and the stats are actually better than the previous one he had then hes a plonker. Unless hes not ment to be taken seriously.

It completely and utterly breaks immersion to be told that you can't swing a simple pipe because the excel sheet in the game says you can't. Its a fricken pipe, limit its power if you want to, but to say you're incapable just makes you feel pathetic.

ride-the-spiral

Ciaran500 wrote: »

It completely and utterly breaks immersion to be told that you can't swing a simple pipe because the excel sheet in the game says you can't. Its a fricken pipe, limit its power if you want to, but to say you're incapable just makes you feel pathetic.

That's how RPGs work, brah.

grizzly

A better way to handle this would be to allow the player to use all basic weapons, but get better modifiers with experience.

jaykhunter

GT put a preview up today :

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/preview-hd-dead-island/718756

Zillah

ride-the-spiral wrote: »

That's how RPGs work, brah.

RPGs absolutely do not need to work like this.

If I ever ask "Why are things this way?" the worst response you can give is "Because that's the way things are".

Immersion and empathy are very important in telling a good story, and having arbitrary, unnecessary game mechanics paraded in front of the player is a bad decision. If they wanted the pipe to be used later, then have it show up later. If they wanted a pipe at that stage but didn't want it that effective, then give him a weaker pipe.

"Level limits" or their equivalent make sense if we're talking about flying planes or hacking a computer; that maintains immersion, it makes sense to me that my character can look at that task and go "Doing this is beyond my ability". He picks up a pipe and tells me tells me that he is incapable of swinging this pipe at zombies, even though its his only weapon and the zombies are trying to eat him...no, that's retarded.

johnny_ultimate

It takes a damn good developer to create a game that meshes real-time play with RPG elements without it feeling borked. Deus Ex is the most successful off the top of my head. In others - and yeah, I'd even include Fallout 3 in this - the combat can seriously lack punch until you build up the necessary stats: based on under-the-hood stats rather than player skill. It's a difficult balancing act to pull off. And Dead Island may do it well, who knows? But things such an unmanned work bench that takes cash as payment and wrenches with levels don't seem like moves that create a compelling, believable world.

RPGs tend to work best when they create unrealistic but tightly controlled internal mechanics (grid-based, turn-based, stats-based: whatever). Games that have a bit of identity crisis are only rarely as effective, and shoehorning in RPG-lite mechanics into a game that doesn't need them is far from good design.

humanji

Zillah wrote: »

RPGs absolutely do not need to work like this.

If I ever ask "Why are things this way?" the worst response you can give is "Because that's the way things are".

Immersion and empathy are very important in telling a good story, and having arbitrary, unnecessary game mechanics paraded in front of the player is a bad decision. If they wanted the pipe to be used later, then have it show up later. If they wanted a pipe at that stage but didn't want it that effective, then give him a weaker pipe.

"Level limits" or their equivalent make sense if we're talking about flying planes or hacking a computer; that maintains immersion, it makes sense to me that my character can look at that task and go "Doing this is beyond my ability". He picks up a pipe and tells me tells me that he is incapable of swinging this pipe at zombies, even though its his only weapon and the zombies are trying to eat him...no, that's retarded.

Borderlands had it and Diablo had it. I don't see a problem with it.

Sand

Meh - the Kotaku article is an odd one. Halway through he announces hes going to introduce some points that might be considered "nitpicking". My reaction was to laugh given the serious dissapointments included encountering an underwhelming world boundary...George Costanza lives.

Regarding the Level 5 pipe...its almost certainly for balancing purposes. Dead Island very clearly has RPG influences - Im playing a Dragon Age currently where I have a suit of armour that none of my characters can equip because they lack the stats to do so - still, Im lumping it around. Similarly, only some classes can wear certain robes - is there some magical skill to wearing a robe? An extreme diet regime that only Mages can handle? Nope - its there for game balance. If youre used to RPGs, youre used to arbitrary restrictions on who can equip what.

If the Level 5 pipe thing is a problem, then to save serious dissapointment people should investigate Rage, which is very much a shooter first with very, very, very light RPG elements. I plan on playing both - I wont get bent out of shape that Rage isnt Fallout 3, and people shouldnt get bent out of shape that Dead Island has levelled weapons.

If you think about any game too hard flaws apppear - theyre just games. The most surreal, immersion breaking thing in Dead Island is going to be dead people trying to eat your brains. If you can adjust and accept that as part of the game then you'll cope fine with using money at workbenches.

Zillah

humanji wrote: »

Borderlands had it and Diablo had it. I don't see a problem with it.

Sand wrote: »

Nope - its there for game balance. If youre used to RPGs, youre used to arbitrary restrictions on who can equip what.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it ruins the whole experience or anything, and I'm more arguing in general rather than about Dead Island, but I think it is both regrettable and unnecessary - an unfortunate combination.

Getting game balance right is very tricky; there are crude solutions and there are elegant solutions. A level 5 pipe is one of the former. You could make the powerful pipe very heavy and therefore not having the requisite strength means your attacks are very slow. There's lots of ways to do it, ones that don't involve a character hold a pipe but being incapable of swinging it at someone.

The most surreal, immersion breaking thing in Dead Island is going to be dead people trying to eat your brains. If you can adjust and accept that as part of the game then you'll cope fine with using money at workbenches.

I've often heard this argument used in a number of different contexts, and I never really buy it. There's a difference between having a bizarre or supernatural premise and having numerous independent elements within the game that make no sense. Just because Star Trek is a sci-fi doesn't mean that all expectations about reality go out the window.

(On a side note, I was trying to remember why your name was so familiar Sand. Did we once have an debate on this forum where we were arguing about different gaming styles, where you go for learning mechanics and the rules and beating the system, whereas I tend to go for story and immersion? If I'm remembering that right I can see why we disagree on this issue.)

Helix

played it today

i was right 4 months ago

game sucks balls

DARK-KNIGHT

Helix wrote: »

played it today

i was right 4 months ago

game sucks balls

REALLY???

Bollix I was looking forward to this game

Raze_them_all

Helix wrote: »

played it today

i was right 4 months ago

game sucks balls

well want to give us a run down why it did?

Zero-Cool

Ya and a good few people here looking forward to it

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056182459&page=11

Helix

Raze_them_all wrote: »

well want to give us a run down why it did?

on my phone at the mo but its clunky, jerky, unresponsice combat and iffy all round controls

in a nutshell it fails at the basics

richymcdermott

Made by techland....nuff said

djkeogh

Disappointing but at least it'll free up the time to be spent on other games.

DaveDaRave

What has come out to indicate it's actually bad ?

I thought it looked alright from the vids and i especially liked the RPG elements

Helix

DaveDaRave wrote: »

What has come out to indicate it's actually bad ?

I thought it looked alright from the vids and i especially liked the RPG elements

ive played it

it plays badly

ergo it is bad

Spunge

Helix wrote: »

ive played it

it plays badly

ergo it is bad

Ah, were you in the beta or something ?

penev10

Helix wrote: »

on my phone at the mo but its clunky, jerky, unresponsice combat and iffy all round controls

Not exactly issues you can tidy-up just before release. If it's that bad maybe it'll get pushed back.

Helix

Spunge wrote: »

Ah, were you in the beta or something ?

no, im a games journo

Helix

penev10 wrote: »

Not exactly issues you can tidy-up just before release. If it's that bad maybe it'll get pushed back.

the game is finished

Raze_them_all

Helix wrote: »

no, im a games journo

I think I'll speak for the group here.



Bastard!!




so jealous

Helix

its not really as much fun as youd think to be honest

Sarky

The game footage a couple of months back looked pretty dodgy, so I'm not entirely surprised. I'm still disappointed though. I do love me some zombies.