Dealing with Zealot Rush (TvP)

Orizio

Just laddered two games and lost to this strat both times. I always lose to it when my toss opponents does it.

I understand I ****ed up my build in one of the games, but I would have lost to the zealot rush regardless.

Ramza

You. Never. Scouted :O

Scouting is, just, critical! In the first game on Shakuras , I understand it was hidden, very clever too cause you never spawn on cross position on Shakuras so he knew your scout would not pass there. When I scout vs Toss on Shakuras I always check around my base first, natural, around the front, and then as usual. Stalker wont be out until later and your SCV will still get in in time

On delta quadrant, you didn't scout. Standard opening for toss is 12 gateway then c.core after. Had you scouted and seen two gateway that early, pull back, make bunker(s), insta gg. Learn to scout man, you kinda lost the game yourself with that =/

neil_

Scout You're guaranteed to lose to everything that's even slightly unusual if you don't scout.

You can beat proxy gates by just putting a bunker down in or near your mineral line and continuing to build units.

Orizio

I mean, my problem with scouting is that I just don't know what I'm looking for. TvT and TvZ tend to be predictable anyway in silver, but I could have a scout in the toss base for ages and I wouldn't know what I was looking at. How would I know a zealot rush was incoming if he did proxies, or even if he didn't? What is the tell-tale sign, other then zealots running through my scvs obviously. No/late gas or something?

I invariably bunker up in TvP and TvT but later then the zealot rush came, usually when I have a few marines out. Is there a rough timing for a zealot rush?

My TvP generally is horrible - can't deal with toss cheese, can't deal with collosus. I don't think I've won any of my last twenty TvPs.

Ramza

In TvP, you want to see gateway, and c.core (warping in). You can keep your SCV there until a stalker gets on the board. After C.Core he'll make his first tech path, I usually see 3 gate robo in all of my matches.

If you see really really early double gas, he's teching up to void rays or DTs, be wary

To spot zealot rush, there will be two gateway (one made and one warping in). The one gas is usually just to allow him to transition after but 2 gateways is the big tell tale sign he's going for zealot rush

Proxy you will see no tech in his base at all, and not a lot of workers either. It might be too late by then, but try and get a bunker up near minerals and hold it if you can.

I'll play you in some 1v1 and zealot rush you if you want some practice?

Orizio

Ramza wrote: »

In TvP, you want to see gateway, and c.core (warping in). You can keep your SCV there until a stalker gets on the board. After C.Core he'll make his first tech path, I usually see 3 gate robo in all of my matches.

If you see really really early double gas, he's teching up to void rays or DTs, be wary

To spot zealot rush, there will be two gateway (one made and one warping in). The one gas is usually just to allow him to transition after but 2 gateways is the big tell tale sign he's going for zealot rush

Proxy you will see no tech in his base at all, and not a lot of workers either. It might be too late by then, but try and get a bunker up near minerals and hold it if you can.

I'll play you in some 1v1 and zealot rush you if you want some practice?

And he gets nothing else after, just two gateways?

Ramza

Yep

You don't need to stay in his base, as soon as you see two gateway turn around, I like to get xelnaga tower so i can see it coming, just to prepare

Bunker up back home when you see the 2 gateways

NeoSlicerZ

phisku

from bronze to low gold keep wall in yourself because you will be exposed to a lot of cheese.
then in high gold and above wall in only against Z, by this time your scouting ability will have increased.

Pimp Ninja

How does one defend against the proxy zealot rush as Toss?

I came across this today when I scouted his base and saw nothing. I was expecting a cannon rush so sent out 3 probes to check around my base and I then came up against a gate built outside my base.

I tried to kill the pylons powering it but didnt get any of them down in time.

Any other suggestions?

NeoSlicerZ

I had a long post written, then accidentally hit the back button. To summarize. 9 scout obvious proxy locations then beeline to his base. Then scout for the proxy, not with your scout probe, pull another to check location. You see a forge, throw down a forge of your own. You see 1 gate, proceed with a standard protoss build, delay core in lieu of chronoed zealots. Do not get supply capped, you will die. You see 2 proxy gates, forge + cannon to cover buildings and mineral line, 2 if necessary. If you can wall a cannon in with buildings that you're going to make anyway. You MUST transition to core + stalkers once the initial rush is held off, chrono UNITS not WG since he gets to transition before you do. The key to surviving cheese is cutting probes.

Grimebox

I think you should just wall-in, I can't see what you can lose by doing so other than some slight lost mining from the travel distance

NeoSlicerZ

Grimebox wrote: »

I think you should just wall-in, I can't see what you can lose by doing so other than some slight lost mining from the travel distance

There're good reasons not to wall TvP and PvP.

seraphimvc

i'd still say wall off in TvP is not a good practice but it is actually the easiest way to hold off cheese like this(just make sure he cant warp into your base and pull scvs mass repair, a few marines can hold infinite zealots).

good practice is you response by building bunker to counter. if you scouted early (you wasnt planning to block the choke), you can lift your rex+make bunker to block the choke(then mass repair+marines behind wall as usual). or if you think you wont block the choke in time, strategically build bunkers in different positions will counter it well too(at the choke, close to CC/mineral line etc). just assemble a small number of marines/MM asap and kill the zealots in your base. actually, with micro+bunker, zealots can never kill your marine, theorically :pac:

F69Baal

In silver you should totally wall in in TvP. Build marines, I wont say micro em because i assume you cannot micro while producing (not yet,but you will, in time). Abuse your range and repair your wall. That should hold. If you can spare ressources(and time) for a reaper, send it straight to his main, that ll be an instant gg

For PvP you NEVER want to put your 1st pylon/gate by the ramp because it can be easily sniped when he gets observers.

GL!

And for you orizio, as it was said before : do scout more! May be play some game vs the computer as P, just to get an idea of their build order (i play random and therefore i always know what my scout is looking for and when to attack)