First Jack O'Connor, now David Begg - are the unions scared of FG

henryporter

Just listened to David Begg giving out about FGs election material which promises to deal with the vested interests of unions among other such luminaries of Irish society (banks etc.). His incendiary language (largest group of workers, FG trying to gain favour with the 'leafy' surburbanites of D4) indicates what I feel is his genuine fear that change is on the horizon - not a bad thing IMO - what do ye think?

telekon

henryporter wrote: »

Just listened to David Begg giving out about FGs election material which promises to deal with the vested interests of unions among other such luminaries of Irish society (banks etc.). His incendiary language (largest group of workers, FG trying to gain favour with the 'leafy' surburbanites of D4) indicates what I feel is his genuine fear that change is on the horizon - not a bad thing IMO - what do ye think?

I will always vote the opposite to what chapagne socialist David Begg says.

The Unions can't say they weren't some bit culpable for this economic mess...

His interview this morning sounded like he was slightly reluctantly coming out with this having been put under pressure to make this statement from labour hq.
It's barrel scraping.

Monty Burnz

I can't understand Labour's attacks on FG on tax - by their own admission, they plan to increase taxes by twice what FG do, so surely they are attacking themselves?

bamboozle

its very simple, public sector wages & conditions are far higher than they majority of other EU countries, we are on the verge of bankruptcy so these costs need to be cut by the incoming govt, FG have said they will tackle these, labour would be less inclined to cut the wages of those financing their election campaign.

as a guest on newstalk this morning said, how can we justify having higher public sector salaries than Germany, the country which is bailing us out?

danbohan

bamboozle wrote: »

its very simple, public sector wages & conditions are far higher than they majority of other EU countries, we are on the verge of bankruptcy so these costs need to be cut by the incoming govt, FG have said they will tackle these, labour would be less inclined to cut the wages of those financing their election campaign.

as a guest on newstalk this morning said, how can we justify having higher public sector salaries than Germany, the country which is bailing us out?

how can we justify having higher public sector salaries than Germany, the country which is bailing us out

reading posts on the boards from public sector workers they do try and justify their excessive salarys , cost of living here ,dont you know , hopefully a very strong fine gael govt will bring some reality to their pampered lives

Pete_Cavan

henryporter wrote: »

Just listened to David Begg giving out about FGs election material which promises to deal with the vested interests of unions among other such luminaries of Irish society (banks etc.). His incendiary language (largest group of workers, FG trying to gain favour with the 'leafy' surburbanites of D4) indicates what I feel is his genuine fear that change is on the horizon - not a bad thing IMO - what do ye think?

He sat on the Board of Directors and Management of the Central Bank and Financial Services Authority of Ireland for most of the last decade so I think it is fair to disregard everything he says. If a man who was on the Audit Committee of The Central Bank during the most damaging years of the Credit bubble says something is black, I will automatically assume that it is white. If he says FG would be bad for the country, that only reinforces my opinion that they would actually be good for the country.

alfa beta

I spent the past few weeks listening to all the arguments put forward by all the parties and I still hadn't made up my mind which way to vote

Now, for me voting is all about putting into government a party with policies that I think will be good for the country at a certain point in time - it's not about local candidates or long term family type allegiances - I am open to new persuasion come each and every election.

The thing is, until this morning I hadn't in truth found any particular party persuasive enough in their proposals to convince me to vote for them.

Then I listened to David Begg and he made up my mind for me with his heartfelt and strongly worded arguments.

So now I'm definitely voting FG.

Thanks David. Appreciate your help in making up my mind.

Killer Pigeon

henryporter wrote: »

Just listened to David Begg giving out about FGs election material which promises to deal with the vested interests of unions among other such luminaries of Irish society (banks etc.). His incendiary language (largest group of workers, FG trying to gain favour with the 'leafy' surburbanites of D4) indicates what I feel is his genuine fear that change is on the horizon - not a bad thing IMO - what do ye think?

Ugh!!

TO UNION OFFICIALS!!

It you want Labour elected, just shut up! Silence will be your greatest friend over the next week.

telekon

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Ugh!!

TO UNION OFFICIALS!!

It you want Labour elected, just shut up! Silence will be your greatest friend over the next week.

Very true. When I think of Jack O'Connor I think of the time he was loudly booed by fellow workers while going on off on one of his Big Jim Larkin-esque speechs at one of the rallys and unfairly attacking Pat Kenny on his 'trophy house'.

Oh Jack, you and your €124,000 salary make me laugh...

Lockstep

telekon wrote: »

Very true. When I think of Jack O'Connor I think of the time he was loudly booed by fellow workers while going on off on one of his Big Jim Larkin-esque speechs at one of the rallys and unfairly attacking Pat Kenny on his 'trophy house'.

Oh Jack, you and your €124,000 salary make me laugh...

I remember that.
Those were members of the SWP/SP/ULA/Éirigi groups IIRC. Not very representative of trade unions.

telekon

Lockstep wrote: »

I remember that.
Those were members of the SWP/SP/ULA/Éirigi groups IIRC. Not very representative of trade unions.

Why does that matter, I dont quite get your point. Are their views not valid?

Lockstep

telekon wrote: »

Why does that matter, I dont quite get your point. Are their views not valid?

As these are hard-left groups would protest over anything; I've seen them boo FF, FG and economists. Assuming they represent trade unions (who are largely centre-left) is like assuming that they represent the Irish electorate.

telekon

Lockstep wrote: »

As these are hard-left groups would protest over anything; I've seen them boo FF, FG and economists. Assuming they represent trade unions (who are largely centre-left) is like assuming that they represent the Irish electorate.

The way the unions have represented the public sector the past 10 years, I would assume these booing lefties were also representing the views of the entire private sector.

Spotted on p.ie. Sums up my feelings about what I now think of Begg and labour.

jank

Dont the unions not get it? Coming out like this will only re-enforce people to vote for FG. Good job!:D

Permabear

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dsmythy

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Basically they are looking to be told the truth on what cuts are coming and be prepared for it. Fine Gael are getting flak for being the most outright of the parties with regards measures that will have to be taken. The other parties just won't be upfront about it.

doonara

Jack O'Connor should stick to what he's good at. Training all Ireland winning teams.Putting on that false beard when he wants to look like a "leftie" has none of us fooled

trippyrez

henryporter wrote: »

Just listened to David Begg giving out about FGs election material which promises to deal with the vested interests of unions among other such luminaries of Irish society (banks etc.). His incendiary language (largest group of workers, FG trying to gain favour with the 'leafy' surburbanites of D4) indicates what I feel is his genuine fear that change is on the horizon - not a bad thing IMO - what do ye think?

I once, quite recently, heard Mr. Begg welcome a group of protesters to the "leafy suburbs of Dublin 4!" The problem was he was in Dublin 2 and Baggot Street could hardly be called a suburb.

The fact that he has now said that he'll tell his members not to vote FG in the election represents exactly the problem with Irish society that FG are trying to highlight and promising to eradicate. Whether or not they can actually do it we'll find out in about four years.

David Begg has a personal chip on his shoulder and has been using his position for years to pontificate on his own opinions whilst using the members of unions as his mandate to do so.

Rookster

FG will get their majority if the unions keep attacking them. You see the vast majority of the pop live in the real world and can aapreciate what FG are saying. Begg is a fool. What about the leafy work conditions of the Public Service.

P. Breathnach

SIPTU and ICTU have a legitimate role in representing the interests of their members. If it is their judgement that voting for a particular party is the best thing to advance those interests, they are entitled to say so. They are doing nothing different from many individuals here, who are quite willing to advocate that we vote for whatever party they favour.

Anybody, member or non-member, is entitled to disagree with them.

[How any organisation organises itself internally, including setting the pay rates for those who work for them, is purely the business of that organisation. We, as members of the public, are not paying them.]

Tora Bora

Did the followers of Larkin, ever give back that bit of taxpayers money, which was resting in one of SIPTU's many bank accounts:cool:
It was in a SIPTU account,............ but Jacko figured it was a SIPTU account which was not actually controlled by SIPTU .......... but as I recall he managed to freeze the SIPTU account which was not under SIPTU control, however he managed that ............ whilst the internal SIPTU KGB . I mean comrades, carried out a detailed inquiry, ........ which as I recall went on and on and on .............

alejandro1977

P. Breathnach wrote: »

[How any organisation organises itself internally, including setting the pay rates for those who work for them, is purely the business of that organisation. We, as members of the public, are not paying them.]

What about the slush training funds?

Tim Robbins

David Begg, General Secretary, Ictu, Salary: €137,400
Jack O'Connor, President of Siptu, Salary: €124,000
Tom Geraghty, Gen Sec, Public Service Executive Union. Salary: Would not reveal
Blair Horan, Civil & Public Services Union, Salary: €120,000
John Carr, General Secretary, Into, Salary: €172,000
Peter McLoone, General Secretary, Impact, Salary: €171,000

Source: http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/nov/08/trade-unions-whos-who/

Solidarity me hole. At least Joe Higgins tries to live off average industrial wage. Gives him credibility even if you disagree with him.

All the Unions big wigs do is come up with scams to keep members paying. They do this so they get paid their fat cat salaries.

The brilliant thing about the internet is you can find out information and make it harder for hypocrites.

I'd have much more time for trade unions that were genuinely interested in justice, not making themselves rich by pretending they were.

Zubeneschamali

P. Breathnach wrote: »

If it is their judgement that voting for a particular party is the best thing to advance those interests, they are entitled to say so.

I agree that it is in their members interests to vote Labour. I also think it is strongly against Labour's interests for Begg and O'Connor to say so publicly.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Killer Pigeon

P. Breathnach wrote: »

SIPTU and ICTU have a legitimate role in representing the interests of their members. If it is their judgement that voting for a particular party is the best thing to advance those interests, they are entitled to say so. They are doing nothing different from many individuals here, who are quite willing to advocate that we vote for whatever party they favour.

Anybody, member or non-member, is entitled to disagree with them.

[How any organisation organises itself internally, including setting the pay rates for those who work for them, is purely the business of that organisation. We, as members of the public, are not paying them.]

Sounds like something Bertie might say.

Rookster

P. Breathnach wrote: »

SIPTU and ICTU have a legitimate role in representing the interests of their members. If it is their judgement that voting for a particular party is the best thing to advance those interests, they are entitled to say so. They are doing nothing different from many individuals here, who are quite willing to advocate that we vote for whatever party they favour.

Anybody, member or non-member, is entitled to disagree with them.

[How any organisation organises itself internally, including setting the pay rates for those who work for them, is purely the business of that organisation. We, as members of the public, are not paying them.]

Yes! And we the taxpayer have the right to say No to ridiculously high numbers and waste in the Public service.

th3 s1aught3r

I dont support any political party but I would like to see a FG OM if it would mean that something was done about the public sector reform that the country desperately needs
Labour will just pander to their friends in the unions :mad:

almighty1

Just a quick note boys and girls.

ICTU represent more than public sector :rolleyes:.

Monty Burnz

almighty1 wrote: »

Just a quick note boys and girls.

ICTU represent more than public sector :rolleyes:.

Perhaps someone should tell them that?

almighty1

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Perhaps someone should tell them that?

Maybe their union members?

almighty1

Rookster wrote: »

FG will get their majority if the unions keep attacking them. You see the vast majority of the pop live in the real world and can aapreciate what FG are saying. Begg is a fool. What about the leafy work conditions of the Public Service.

Do you even understand the concept of a trade union? Power in numbers, solidarity etc etc. FG would be best advised not to irk the trade unions. 34% of employees are members of a trade union, Im sure they wouldnt be happy with FG saying they are part culpable for the economic crisis.

Leafy work conditions? Try being a prison office in mountjoy, a nurse in St James on Saturday night or a fireman at a fatal road crash. :rolleyes:

telekon

almighty1 wrote: »

Do you even understand the concept of a trade union? 34% of employees are members of a trade union, Im sure they wouldnt be happy with FG saying they are part culpable for the economic crisis.

That's only 66% of the electorate voting for FG so...

Monty Burnz

almighty1 wrote: »

Leafy work conditions? Try being a prison office in mountjoy, a nurse in St James on Saturday night or a fireman at a fatal road crash. :rolleyes:

Yes, all public sector jobs are horrific, and all private sector jobs involve leaning back in a comfortable armchair, throwing wads of money in the air and laughing like a hyena. :rolleyes:

almighty1

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Yes, all public sector jobs are horrific, and all private sector jobs involve leaning back in a comfortable armchair, throwing wads of money in the air and laughing like a hyena. :rolleyes:

I never did claim anything about private sector jobs. My response was directly attributed to that particular post and the whole anti public service chest beating around here.

almighty1

telekon wrote: »

That's only 66% of the electorate voting for FG so...

Haha you wish it were as simple as that. Fact of the matter is at the end of the day, ICTU members will still vote whoever they like. They are not going to listen to David Begg or Jack O'Connor.

BUT FG are not doing themselves any favours by apportioning blame on the working class families of Ireland, irrespective of what sector they work in. And that really is the bottom line

Lockstep

telekon wrote: »

The way the unions have represented the public sector the past 10 years, I would assume these booing lefties were also representing the views of the entire private sector.

Private sector workers in the ULA?
SUrely not!

COmplaining about unions is all well and dandy but not when it involves backing the extreme left.

ballsymchugh

doonara wrote: »

Jack O'Connor should stick to what he's good at. Training all Ireland winning teams.Putting on that false beard when he wants to look like a "leftie" has none of us fooled

there i was reading a very interesting and serious thread, and then i saw this and burst myself laughing. quality first post!

astrofool

The wage levels of the public sector are not "working class" wages.

Rabidlamb

300,000 Public Servants used to hold a huge sway over governments.
Unfortunately for them the 450,000 unemployed form a bigger lobby.

No coincidence that FG's bounce coincided with their announcement to strictly enforce the CPA.
We all know that unionised PS workers will take 5 years & 10 government concessions to give up their shoe leather allowance.
We all know FG will trap them with the first stumbling block & then pay is back on the agenda.

I've 2 sister who are teachers & both expect to be cut next December.

almighty1

astrofool wrote: »

The wage levels of the public sector are not "working class" wages.

Fantastic post. Great addition to this thread. Please reread my post to see if you understand what point I am trying to get across. If you still don't get it, I will explain it to you.

Rookster

almighty1 wrote: »

Do you even understand the concept of a trade union? Power in numbers, solidarity etc etc. FG would be best advised not to irk the trade unions. 34% of employees are members of a trade union, Im sure they wouldnt be happy with FG saying they are part culpable for the economic crisis.

Leafy work conditions? Try being a prison office in mountjoy, a nurse in St James on Saturday night or a fireman at a fatal road crash

. :rolleyes:

Cop on! Prison officers are screwing the system big time. With overtime (which they all seem to be on) their earnings are well over 100k per annum.A nurse ( best paid in the world) working in St James's on a saturday night will get a week off in return for working a week of nights. The firemen who are also cleaning up (as was reported recently) should not be in the job if he is affected by fatal road crashes. Plenty of other guys will do it.
Yes, poor public service!

almighty1

Rookster wrote: »

Cop on! Prison officers are screwing the system big time. With overtime (which they all seem to be on) their earnings are well over 100k per annum.A nurse ( best paid in the world) working in St James's on a saturday night will get a week off in return for working a week of nights.

100k per annum. If thats an average I would love to see you prove that.
Nurses? Can you provide a link to prove.
Unless you can actually prove any of your points above then I'll place in the the babble category.

Rookster wrote:

The firemen who are also cleaning up (as was reported recently) should not be in the job if he is affected by fatal road crashes. Plenty of other guys will do it.

You really need to take into context what I was referring to. Its the very basic concept of debating really. To clarify, it was in relation to the poster saying that PS work in "leafy" work conditions. I wouldnt class the scene of a fatal car crash, mountjoy jail or A&E on a Saturday night as "leafy" (irrespective of the individual who is working there)

telekon

Anyone catch JOC on Liveline?

A caller was on earlier saying he had to join SIPTU or be forced out of his job.

When quizzed about this, Jack said it does happen...and then backtracked later, as far as I could tell.

Can you seriously lose your job over not being a union member. Smells a bit fishy to me...

alejandro1977

Rookster wrote: »

Cop on! Prison officers are screwing the system big time. With overtime (which they all seem to be on) their earnings are well over 100k per annum.A nurse ( best paid in the world) working in St James's on a saturday night will get a week off in return for working a week of nights.

Yes POs are over paid;

for the sake of accuracy I believe nurses get a week off after a week of nights as they work 12 hour shifts for a week - (7 nights possibly..)

mikemac

telekon wrote: »

Anyone catch JOC on Liveline?

A caller was on earlier saying he had to join SIPTU or be forced out of his job.

When quizzed about this, Jack said it does happen...and then backtracked later, as far as I could tell.

Can you seriously lose your job over not being a union member. Smells a bit fishy to me...

Was a SIPTU member in a multinational before

It's not that you'd lose your job.
Just that people can be difficult and they might object to working with you. In a warehouse for example and if you can't work on a team it's a lonely experience.

It should never happen in a perfect world but it does unfortunately.

Dyr

telekon wrote: »

The Unions can't say they weren't some bit culpable for this economic mess...

They did'nt go lending ridiculous amounts of money to developers or cooking the books so actually they can.

telekon

Bambi wrote: »

They did'nt go lending ridiculous amounts of money to developers or cooking the books so actually they can.

Yes. We can all agree with that.

I said the unions were "some bit culpable"...which they were.

Whats the problem??

DrumSteve

almighty1 wrote: »

Haha you wish it were as simple as that. Fact of the matter is at the end of the day, ICTU members will still vote whoever they like. They are not going to listen to David Begg or Jack O'Connor.

BUT FG are not doing themselves any favours by apportioning blame on the working class families of Ireland, irrespective of what sector they work in. And that really is the bottom line

Kind of disappointed, I thought there was a link there.