Fine Gael pledge to reverse the ban on stag hunting

steddyeddy

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

from their website wanting a ban on the hunting of deer.

Well I have no problem with people hunting for food or culling but hunting for the sake of killing should be banned. As far as i know culling is allowed under the ban.

kildare.17hmr

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well I have no problem with people hunting for food or culling but hunting for the sake of killing should be banned. As far as i know culling is allowed under the ban.

your talking about 2 different things, the ban is for the horse mounted hunt with hounds not shooting deer, there is no ban for shooting deer for food/sport.

steddyeddy

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

your talking about 2 different things, the ban is for the horse mounted hunt with hounds not shooting deer, there is no ban for shooting deer for food/sport.

Well I agree with the ban I dont have a problem with hunting for food but I have a problem with hunting for sport, thats what im saying.

magicbastarder

the gas thing is, i'd be considered a loony green by some colleagues, yet i'm one of the only ones to have expressed an interest in hunting - rabbits and the like.

recedite

johngalway wrote: »

By the by, as far as I know badger baiting had been outlawed for many years.

Yes, badger baiting, cockfighting and bearbaiting were banned in the 19th century. Yet there still does not seem to be any campaign against shooting or fishing? Perhaps this indicates a flaw in your theory that when one country sport is banned, the anti's will immediately transfer their campaigns to the next one.

dynamick wrote: »

A nice summary of the story behind the RISE/stag hunt ban is here:
http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/jul/04/the-achilles-heel-of-the-hunt/

Indeed, especially this bit regarding the relative unimportance of the staghunt in these times of crippling debt and economic meltdown;

"The only group affected by the ban is the Ward Union Hunt. One of its prominent members is Michael Bailey, who was deemed corrupt by a tribunal and who, with his brother, settled with the Revenue for €25m in 2006. In developed countries, Bailey may well have been the subject of a criminal prosecution, but we don't do that kind of stuff here.

The hunt also includes one of Nama's finest, Johnny Ronan, who, like the late George Best, enjoys the company of Miss Worlds, one of whom he flew to Morocco on a whim earlier this year, at a time when his debts were being socialised into Nama......

In January, a "pro-hunting" group, Rural Ireland Says Enough! (Rise!) emerged. With an office in Ashbourne – in the heart of Ward Union territory – and fronted by top PR man Liam Cahill, it was obviously well funded. Cahill had previously worked as PR man for Intel, with Fianna Fáil's David Andrews and with the Labour Party. He doesn't come cheap.

Over the last six months, he brilliantly purported to represent the interests of rural Ireland with a campaign to "mobilise public and political opinion in support of traditional field sports and rural pastimes".

The Nama boys and their fellow hunters were thus transmogrified into saviours of rural Ireland, the last bulwark against the rampaging instincts of the Green party."

A good PR man understands how to manipulate justifiable public anger, by redirecting behaviour towards some displacement activity.

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

http://www.banbloodsports.com/ ongoing campagin against all things hunting

Nothing there against shooting or fishing. I see from that website they have a new sport now to replace otter hunting; mink hunting. I hope the hounds can tell the difference.

kildare.17hmr

that piece i put up from their website is about hunting deer, with guns

kildare.17hmr

recedite wrote: »

Nothing there against shooting or fishing. I see from that website they have a new sport now to replace otter hunting; mink hunting. I hope the hounds can tell the difference.

mink are very distructive and vicious hunters, also a non native species.

ppink

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

mink are very distructive and vicious hunters, also a non native species.

yes most people know this and it is all very well to control species based on solid information but to rip them to shreds is a different ballgame altogether.
from the post you made above about the banbloodsports website the way I read it is they are looking to ban hunters and hounds not shooting? maybe I am wrong there?

i feel similar to Eddy in that killing for the sake of it is crazy. where does that end? not an animal left on the planet as we have shot the lot or ripped them apart with dogs.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Back on topic:

There are many more dreadfully ignored wildlife issues in this country than a single stag hunt. The previous government failed on so many counts to protect our endangered flora and fauna.

kildare.17hmr

yes most people know this and it is all very well to control species based on solid information but to rip them to shreds is a different ballgame altogether.
from the post you made above about the banbloodsports website the way I read it is they are looking to ban hunters and hounds not shooting? maybe I am wrong there?

yeah your reading it how they want you to read it, you cant hunt deer with dogs anywhere in ireland, the licences givin out are for hunting deer with rifles on coilte land.

i feel similar to Eddy in that killing for the sake of it is crazy. where does that end? not an animal left on the planet as we have shot the lot or ripped them apart with dogs.

i would have similar thoughts and hate seein stuff waisted but its not every animal ya no. we go through alot to get ours firearms and the vast majority of us follow the rules to a t to ensure we keep them.

steddyeddy

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

mink are very distructive and vicious hunters, also a non native species.

like a lot af human hunters, we can ban one and control the other.

steddyeddy

Jasmine Prehistoric Washtub wrote: »

Back on topic:

There are many more dreadfully ignored wildlife issues in this country than a single stag hunt. The previous government failed on so many counts to protect our endangered flora and fauna.

true but the next government wants us to go backwards on this issue and with this attitude I suspect be regressive on all other flora and fauna issues.

Stags sometimes need to be controlled and I have no problem with them eaten but I have a problem with some people taking pleasure in killing them for the sake of killing, im glad their are licensed hunters but some of these (and I know some hunters agree with me) should never be given a gun, often the fail to eradicate the creature in one shot. Its these types of yahoos which make the most noise with regards to their "right" to barbarity being repealed.

recedite

Jasmine Prehistoric Washtub wrote: »

Back on topic:

There are many more dreadfully ignored wildlife issues in this country than a single stag hunt. The previous government failed on so many counts to protect our endangered flora and fauna.

Give some examples of your gripes please.

On the other hand, apart from banning the Nama Boy's schoolyard staghunt;

Ireland has gone from planting 6,648 hectares of new grant-supported forestry land in 2009 up to planting 7,000 hectares in 2010, much of it broadleaf.....

New legislation banning the random laying of poisoned meat throughout the countryside was introduced last year.....

steddyeddy

Give some examples of your gripes please.

On the other hand, apart from banning the Nama Boy's schoolyard staghunt;

Ireland has gone from planting 6,648 hectares of new grant-supported forestry land in 2009 up to planting 7,000 hectares in 2010, much of it broadleaf.....

Which could be sold off

New legislation banning the random laying of poisoned meat throughout the countryside was introduced last year.....

Which has done sweet f a

dynamick

Quad bikes and jet skis were banned from SPAs last year.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/si/0293.html
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gormley-bans-offroad-bikes-to-protect-land-2282779.html

steddyeddy

dynamick wrote: »

Quad bikes and jet skis were banned from SPAs last year.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/si/0293.html
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gormley-bans-offroad-bikes-to-protect-land-2282779.html

In the past few years several animals endagered to ireland have been killed with the strongest reaction being "this is unacceptable" there is even norweigien embassadors begging us not to kill anymore of their creatures. we have farmers in kerry protesting against the arrival of chicks. Now one of the first things a new government wants to do in an economic crisis is over turn a vote to ban the torure of an animal, were going backwards so no im not happy with a country that allows endangered species to be killed and progress repealed.

dynamick

New environment minister will probably be Phil Hogan. I don't know how he will compare to the previous guys

magicbastarder

if you thought it was bad before, and that people will have learned lessons from the celtic tiger, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

standing in the way of 'economic progress' will be portrayed as nothing short of treason. if FG could deliver 10,000 jobs at the cost of extermination of several species of wildlife, they'd do it in a shot. expect very few laws which protect wildlife which would have even the slightest impact on roadbuilding or job creation.

recedite

steddyeddy wrote: »

Which has done sweet f a

steddyeddy wrote: »

In the past few years several animals endagered to ireland have been killed with the strongest reaction being "this is unacceptable" there is even norweigien embassadors begging us not to kill anymore of their creatures. we have farmers in kerry protesting against the arrival of chicks.

Steady on eddy Gormley's new poisoning law has only been in place since last October. I'm not aware of any eagles being poisoned in this State since then. Its early days yet, but this time last year, Eagles, Red Kites and Peregrines were dropping out of the skies all around the country.

So give credit where credit is due.

Also the sheep farmers in Donegal have got used to the situation now;

The attitude and support of the local sheep men has been exemplary and the Golden Eagle Trust would again like to highlight this example of the co-operation between hill farming and wildlife interests. The farmers themselves have actually noted a decline in the number of attacks on newborn lambs, lambed outdoors, by nearby Hooded (Grey) Crows. And they acknowledge that the arrival of Golden Eagles into their glen has impacted on the previously unnaturally high number of Hooded Crows locally.

from; http://www.goldeneagle.ie/portal.php

snowstreams

recedite wrote: »

Steady on eddy Gormley's new poisoning law has only been in place since last October. I'm not aware of any eagles being poisoned in this State since then.

There was a golden eagle poisoned in Tyrone during the cold spell in late november.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1208/1224285028963.html

But the real test for the ban will be in the next month or two.

magicbastarder

our laws don't apply in tyrone.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

recedite wrote: »

Give some examples of your gripes please.

Ireland has gone from planting 6,648 hectares of new grant-supported forestry land in 2009 up to planting 7,000 hectares in 2010, much of it broadleaf.....

.....

3 here for a start:
http://enviroireland.com/?tag=european-court-of-justice

And this is still valid:
http://www.birdwatchireland.ie/News/ECJupholdsEUcomplaintsagainstIrishGovernment/tabid/490/Default.aspx

Broadleaf woodland yes, it's an improvemment but it is grown for subsidies and to be cropped. No long term benefit there.

johngalway

ppink wrote: »

to outlaw shooting would surely mean that slaughter for all animals for food would also have to stop....it is hard to justify one and not the other. They are mostly shot aren't they?

Badger baiting is still ongoing according to ISPCA. not legal I know but still happening apparently....back to the torture thing again

Shot no, captive bolt gun yes, AFAIK. It's not hard to justify either, except online.

Again, with the badger baiting, it's illegal. The law doesn't stop people doing anything necessarily, it just means there are penalties if caught.

magicbastarder wrote: »

so you're getting worked up over a hypothetical situation.
there is no serious campaign, and i doubt there ever has been, of people who are seeking to ban hunting animals with guns for food. as i mentioned, there are plenty of 'greens' who see shooting of some animals as a necessity. i think you're jumping at shadows.

I see what ya did there :pac: I've got work and other commitments, I don't get worked up on forums.

I have to repeat myself again, as people either haven't read or refuse to accept the logic. There may be no campaigns presently, that does not discount future campaigns on the momentum of successful past campaigns. If ya can't see the pattern there, I just can't help ya.

steddyeddy wrote: »

Theres no campaign against hunting for food or necessity, i dont think there will be one either.

Who said, "failure to prepare, is preparation for failure"? I forget, doesn't matter anyway. The objective is to not give ground, as those involved in the aforementioned activities know there are anti groups who know anti politicians.

Agree or disagree, the logic is sound.

recedite

johngalway wrote: »

I have to repeat myself again, as people either haven't read or refuse to accept the logic. There may be no campaigns presently, that does not discount future campaigns on the momentum of successful past campaigns.

Have you ever heard of a fellow Galway man Humanity Dick ?; He was active back in 19th century, one of the founders of the RSPCA and pushed for the first animal welfare legislation. There were campaigns to ban cock fighting, bear baiting and dogfighting at the time.
Its quite possible that shooting enthusiasts became worried then, and started planning for the time the antis would try to take away their muskets.

And maybe that campaign you are preparing for will happen someday, but I think we will all be long gone, so please don't worry too much about it.

Birdnuts

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Those Fine Gael lads don't care about wildlife. A Fine Gael boyo came to the door. I remember some Fine Gael yoke saying last year that 200,000 euros spent on the national frog survey was an obscene waste of money. Also that money spent on Hen Harrier/natterjack toad protection was a waste. I questioned yer man on this. He said Fine Gael will not be wasting money like that:eek:.
"

I share your concerns - they appear to be totally ignorant of the fact that our tourism and much of our food industry is based on protecting biodiversity and thereby proving our "green image" isn't just a marketing gimic!!

johngalway

recedite wrote: »

And maybe that campaign you are preparing for will happen someday, but I think we will all be long gone, so please don't worry too much about it.

Same old, same old there Recedite. You can't see the logic of the threat as you're not threatened.

doctor evil

steddyeddy wrote: »

Nama Boy's schoolyard staghunt

Plenty of jockeys in the wardhunt, didn't know they were responsible for NAMA...;)

steddyeddy

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

your talking about 2 different things, the ban is for the horse mounted hunt with hounds not shooting deer, there is no ban for shooting deer for food/sport.

You hit the nail on the head I am talking about two different things, as in I see a difference between different forms of blood sport.

steddyeddy

Sonovagun wrote: »

This is good news for rural folk who have seen the Greens ruin their weekly and local sporting/social event.

Fine Gael have obviously made their decision on the mood the electorate.

I welcome the news

Most people arent into cruelty, they havent based there decision on the mood of the electorate but a minority who get enjoyment from the torture of animals.

steddyeddy

johngalway wrote: »

Untrue. RISE were quite correct in their analysis of the situation. I'm constantly amused that some people seem to think these anti groups will simply fold up and go away at the banning of stag hunting. Groups out there want the lot gone, and people are more clued in than to swallow the BS lines that were put forward with a look to conquering and dividing the hunting/shooting community.

Not. Going. To. Happen.

Thats ridiculous, several people here have stated there not anti fishing or hunting for food and your connecting the initial intention of banning a barbarous event " Im not calling it sport" with the intention to ban the hunting of foxs for protection of land and the hunting and fishing of animals for meat.

Surely the hunting communtity are divided as are the animal welfare community. I have meet people who are anti hunting with hounds as they think its cruel but pro hunting stag for meat. Surely you must find some form of hunting cruel like badger baiting for instance. Were you concerned when badger baiting was banned that these "anti groups were going after hunting next"?

You cant tell me all types of hunters enjoy all types of blood sport! I know for a fact that some hunters shrink at the sight of a fox getting torn to bits by foxs. Animal welfare groups in ireland anyway are more concerned with people who have the desire to cause the animal suffering or seek pleasure from the death pf the animal. I know hunters are divided in that respect. Shooting will always be safe but supporting these barbaric uncivilised groups and using the fear of a ban spreading through out blood sports wont work in the long term.

steddyeddy

Jasmine Prehistoric Washtub wrote: »

Back on topic:

There are many more dreadfully ignored wildlife issues in this country than a single stag hunt. The previous government failed on so many counts to protect our endangered flora and fauna.

but yet bringing back cruelty is supposed to fill us with confidence.

johngalway

If you'd take the time to read my posts you'll find I've addressed all of that above already. Goodnight

Birdnuts

johngalway wrote: »

LMAO and so true:D

steddyeddy

johngalway wrote: »

If you'd take the time to read my posts you'll find I've addressed all of that above already. Goodnight

well you havent but goodnight

steddyeddy

Cock fighting, dog fighting and badger baiting were banned and not a whimper I suggest the ward union hunt supporters look up cognitive dissonance because their talking in the langauge of double standard.

TippFan77

The "RISE" groups wasn't remotely concerned about life in rural Ireland...It was just a cover for a campaign to preserve stag hunting

Eamon Gilmore was quite emphatic when stated that his party won't support any attempt to reverse the ban on stag hunting.

The Greens may be gone from Dail Eireann, but there are thankfuly many new opponents of bloodsports heading for the 31st Dail...some will be government and others, such as the United Left Alliance, will be on the opposition side.

I'd like to see some action on hare coursing, which despite muzzling continues to be a cruel "pastime".

Is this SPORT?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D58qbzC-GI4

Discodog

Exactly. There is an interesting theory doing the rounds. The Sunday Times were pretty adamant that FG had agreed to repeal the ban in return for "favours". But did Enda pull a flanker in that Gilmore has already stated twice, on live radio, that a repeal would not be accepted ?. Did he take the goodies knowing full well that the Hunt would stay banned ?.

FG must be aware that any repeal would be a huge story. Very rarely in history do governments introduce pro cruelty legislation. The Tories, in the UK, said that they would give a free vote on repealing hunting - they don't seem so keen now.

What happened to RISE - have they sunk ?.

Discodog

Jasmine Prehistoric Washtub wrote: »

Back on topic:

There are many more dreadfully ignored wildlife issues in this country than a single stag hunt. The previous government failed on so many counts to protect our endangered flora and fauna.

Yes & they failed to introduce any animal welfare law to replace our 100 year old legislation. Instead of ineffectual Dog Breeding & Stag Hunting Bills the Greens could of produced an all encompassing Animal Welfare Bill to protect domestic animals & wildlife.

Birdnuts

The most important question now is who will get the Minister for Environment job?? - the thought of the likes of Phil Hogan in it fills me with dread:(

magicbastarder

Discodog wrote: »

Yes & they failed to introduce any animal welfare law to replace our 100 year old legislation. Instead of ineffectual Dog Breeding & Stag Hunting Bills the Greens could of produced an all encompassing Animal Welfare Bill to protect domestic animals & wildlife.

the green party were very much junior coalition partners in a government where the senior partner had lots and lots of links to developers and businessmen. they were largely hobbled from the start.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Having regular contact with departments concerned, I can't agree with that statement at all. But is this the place for a political debate?

Mothman

Considering this was a pre election thread and considering the nature of the last few posts which have been deleted, I conclude the thread has run its course and I've closed it.