Ryan Giggs

niallo27

jaykay74 wrote: »

Now you mention it he has missed heaps of friendlies for Utd over the years as well. Its odd alright.

From to when he was 17 to 26 did he **** miss friendlies for utd

DOC09UNAM

niallo27 wrote: »

Of course they count friendlies, they are counted as full caps

Giggs made his Wales debut against Germany in Nuremburg in 1991, but didn’t play in a friendly international until a 2-1 defeat to Finland in Cardiff in March 2000, missing 18 matches in the process.

Does that not seem a bit odd to you

No, it doesn't.

He came calling for the big matches when he was needed.

Renn

Nah I'd agree that it is odd that he didn't play any friendly from 1991 - 2000.

Ebbs

Jesus, such squabbling.

Giggs deserves the praise he gets. If you want to bash United "Legends", take your critisism to the Neville thread, atleast he deserves every bad word said against him.

niallo27

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

No, it doesn't.

He came calling for the big matches when he was needed.

If he was in his late 20s 30s I'd understand like Roy keane did, but he was in his late teens, he should be playing every game

#15

Is this still going on?

Giggs didn't play friendlies for Wales - to use that as a criticism is straw-clutching.

Perhaps he just didn't give a shít about playing friendlies. Who cares, really?

bamboozling

I think it is a legitimate enough criticism. At that time Giggs was the leading Welsh player and all other players would have looked up to him immensely what with the fact he was one of the best players of his era.

If Giggs couldn't be arsed why would any young players be bothered their hole playing for Wales.

Also his loyalty is over rated. Its the same with the likes of Maldini. Giggs never had a reason to leave he was playing with consistently the best team in the country. Who was he going to move to? Everton? Sunderland?

Now the like of Matt Le Tissier and Allesandro Del Piero now they are a different story.

DOC09UNAM

bamboozling wrote: »

I think it is a legitimate enough criticism.

Well, you would.

bamboozling

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Well, you would.

Debate the post not the poster.

#15

bamboozling wrote: »

I think it is a legitimate enough criticism

On what grounds?

Your stated reason is not good enough. It's not Giggs, or anyone's, job to make sure that young players care about playing for their country.

bamboozling

Sure if its not explicitly written in the contract why would he bother showing leadership. A young player should have been looking to play as many games as possible. Instead he acted the pansie and fúcked off apart from the qualifiers.

Giggs I think is a tad overrated around these parts. He's not even the best winger from United in the past 20 years let alone the league.

DOC09UNAM

bamboozling wrote: »

Debate the post not the poster.

But they both go hand in hand, your post is going to be bitter and full of shíte because it's from you!

bamboozling

You're hardly the Kofi Annan of the Soccer forum yourself now Doc.

Paul Tergat

Its a sign of this forum that a thread on one of the legends of the modern era is being dragged down with bs. Its happening so much of late.

DOC09UNAM

bamboozling wrote: »

You're hardly the Kofi Annan of the Soccer forum yourself now Doc.

I'm not, but I haven't gone into the wilshere or xavi thread talking shít, i'll leave that to the ABU's.

xw2lj9uspm1eyh

Wow I hadn't looked at this thread for a while and it had 50 new responses,when did the Soccer forum become like the Politics forum where every little detail is "debated" profusely .I use the term debated loosely because posts like you're talking ****e and your posts are retarded which ironically are ****e posts in themselves as they add nothing to the thread as does this actual post :P.Till it ends up with two or three posters debating their points ad infinitum just agree to disagree and move on not everyone is going to agree with you, no matter how much you try if someone feels strongly about an opinion it's not gonna change so don't waste your time and energy don't derail what started as a good thread about a great player.

#15

bamboozling wrote: »

Sure if its not explicitly written in the contract why would he bother showing leadership. A young player should have been looking to play as many games as possible. Instead he acted the pansie and fúcked off apart from the qualifiers.

So, no then, you don't have any valid reasons?

bonerm

mendusa wrote: »

Wow I hadn't looked at this thread for a while and it had 50 new responses,when did the Soccer forum become like the Politics forum where every little detail is "debated" profusely .I use the term debated loosely because posts like you're talking ****e and your posts are retarded which ironically are ****e posts in themselves as they add nothing to the thread as does this actual post :P.Till it ends up with two or three posters debating their points ad infinitum just agree to disagree and move on not everyone is going to agree with you, no matter how much you try if someone feels strongly about an opinion it's not gonna change so don't waste your time and energy don't derail what started as a good thread about a great player.

Aren't you just describing every thread on this forum?

bamboozling

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

I'm not, but I haven't gone into the wilshere or xavi thread talking shít, i'll leave that to the ABU's.

I haven't a clue what your on about. I made one post in the Wilshere thread praising the lad. And with regards the Xavi thread I haven't a notion what you're on about.

The fact of the matter is Giggs should have been there for his country and he wasn't.

And another Giggs, while a legend, is over rated. He was never the stand out member of United and has always been inconsistent. He scored 1 amazing goal which was the turning point in the treble and for that I feel he gets very good press. He was never the player to lead from the front, I think he was more than happy to let Scholes, Keane and Neville show leadership.

But look t everyone has their faults. He hasn't many and will go down as a great player. More for what he has won rather than what he did himself.

DOC09UNAM

bamboozling wrote: »

I haven't a clue what your on about. I made one post in the Wilshere thread praising the lad. And with regards the Xavi thread I haven't a notion what you're on about.

The fact of the matter is Giggs should have been there for his country and he wasn't.

And another Giggs, while a legend, is over rated. He was never the stand out member of United and has always been inconsistent. He scored 1 amazing goal which was the turning point in the treble and for that I feel he gets very good press. He was never the player to lead from the front, I think he was more than happy to let Scholes, Keane and Neville show leadership.

But look t everyone has their faults. He hasn't many and will go down as a great player. More for what he has won rather than what he did himself.

lol

Mars Bar

bamboozling wrote: »

I haven't a clue what your on about. I made one post in the Wilshere thread praising the lad. And with regards the Xavi thread I haven't a notion what you're on about.

The fact of the matter is Giggs should have been there for his country and he wasn't.

And another Giggs, while a legend, is over rated. He was never the stand out member of United and has always been inconsistent. He scored 1 amazing goal which was the turning point in the treble and for that I feel he gets very good press. He was never the player to lead from the front, I think he was more than happy to let Scholes, Keane and Neville show leadership.

But look t everyone has their faults. He hasn't many and will go down as a great player. More for what he has won rather than what he did himself.

A female knows more about football than you do.

IvySlayer

bamboozling wrote: »

Sure if its not explicitly written in the contract why would he bother showing leadership. A young player should have been looking to play as many games as possible. Instead he acted the pansie and fúcked off apart from the qualifiers.

Giggs I think is a tad overrated around these parts. He's not even the best winger from United in the past 20 years let alone the league.

Ryan Giggs was never the best winger in the world, but what he does have is class. It's the way he composes himself. There's more to football than being technically gifted. Never sent off in his entire United career. At 37 years old he is still running rings around premier league fullbacks.

DOC09UNAM

mars bar wrote: »

A female knows more about football than you do.

That's not fair, you know more than most on here :P

Mars Bar

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

That's not fair, you know more than most on here :P

Aw shucks!

#15

bamboozling wrote: »

The fact of the matter is Giggs should have been there for his country

Why?

It's ridiculous that people treat international matches like going to war.

'been there for his country' - honestly, could you appeal to a lower denominator?

UnitedIrishman

niallo27 wrote: »

**** that, that's horse****, 17 years 64 games, he started this whole pulling out of international duty due to being injured, he couldn't give a **** about wales and he probaly would have walked from utd if things went bad, so don't give me this loyalty ****

STFU. Seriously.

IvySlayer

bamboozling wrote: »

I haven't a clue what your on about. I made one post in the Wilshere thread praising the lad. And with regards the Xavi thread I haven't a notion what you're on about.

The fact of the matter is Giggs should have been there for his country and he wasn't.

And another Giggs, while a legend, is over rated. He was never the stand out member of United and has always been inconsistent. He scored 1 amazing goal which was the turning point in the treble and for that I feel he gets very good press. He was never the player to lead from the front, I think he was more than happy to let Scholes, Keane and Neville show leadership.

But look t everyone has their faults. He hasn't many and will go down as a great player. More for what he has won rather than what he did himself.

It's down to Ferguson. He done it to Scholes, he done it to Giggs.

bamboozling

IvySlayer wrote: »

It's down to Ferguson. He done it to Scholes, he done it to Giggs.

In what way do you mean?

bonerm

IvySlayer wrote: »

It's down to Ferguson. He done it to Scholes, he done it to Giggs.

Let's not forget Sir Royston of Keaneshire among this group of likely lads. It's funny that Giggs frequently gets mentioned as the archtypical cap-dodger when you look at Keanes stats.

Here's the numbers for anyone who's interested.

Giggs :
Number of Wales games held between debut and retirement : 115
Number of caps won : 64
Appearance % = 56%

Keane :
Number of Ireland games held between debut and retirement : 146
Number of caps won : 67
Appearance % = 46%

So Keane is even worse than Giggs in this regard. You could excuse Keanes absence in the 98-99 season due to his longterm injury but either way the numbers don't lie. The fella missed nearly 80 Ireland games over the course of his career give or take, a number Giggs didn't even come close to.

bamboozling

Lets not forget Keane's 3 years of exile and his season long knee injury. That would count for at least 30 maybe 40 caps I would think.

Giggs has no excuse.

bonerm

bamboozling wrote: »

Lets not forget Keane's 3 years of exile and his season long knee injury. That would count for at least 30 maybe 40 caps I would think.

Giggs has no excuse.

That was Keanes choice. McCarthy was gone within 6 games of Saipan.

(It was a 21 game 'exile' btw. So you're still looking at another 55-60 that need consideration.)

bamboozling

bonerm wrote: »

That was Keanes choice. McCarthy was gone with 6 games of Saipan.

Was it not retirement. So Scholes is allowed call time on his career whenever yet Keane isn't. It was Scholes choice to retire too. Why not include those 60 odd caps since he retired?

I think you are doing a little bit of statistical gerrymandering to suit your arguement.

bonerm

bamboozling wrote: »

Was it not retirement. So Scholes is allowed call time on his career whenever yet Keane isn't. It was Scholes choice to retire too. Why not include those 60 odd caps since he retired?

I think you are doing a little bit of statistical gerrymandering to suit your arguement.

Keane can do whatever he wants (as he demonstrated spectacularly). Plus he could retire at 30 too if he liked and the country would have thanked him for his efforts.

As to adding 60 to Scholes numbers : If it makes you feel any better Keane was on 59 at Saipan (out of 105 games played to that point), so he was still only on the same percentage as Giggs (56%). Hardly impressive.

bamboozling

bonerm wrote: »

Keane can do whatever he wants (as he demonstrated spectacularly). Plus he could retire at 30 too if he liked and the country would have thanked him for his efforts.

As to adding 60 to Scholes numbers : If it makes you feel any better Keane was on 59 at Saipan (out of 105 games played to that point), so he was still only on the same percentage as Giggs (56%). Hardly impressive.

So you are telling me that between 1991 and 2002 Ireland played 105 games yet Wales between 1991 and 2007 played 115. That is scarcely believable. Where exactly are you getting these stats from or are you pulling them out of your arse?

thebaz

bonerm wrote: »

L

So Keane is even worse than Giggs in this regard. You could excuse Keanes absence in the 98-99 season due to his longterm injury but either way the numbers don't lie. The fella missed nearly 80 Ireland games over the course of his career give or take, a number Giggs didn't even come close to.

its quality over quantity - Keane nearly single-handedly got us to that World Cup finals - and was also our best player at the 1994 tournament - after Paul McGrath he was the best player i saw in a green shirt ... now back to giggs

bonerm

bamboozling wrote: »

So you are telling me that between 1991 and 2002 Ireland played 105 games yet Wales between 1991 and 2007 played 115. That is scarcely believable. Where exactly are you getting these stats from or are you pulling them out of your arse?

I'm getting them from rsssf. I'll leave the talking out of the arse to you.

bonerm

thebaz wrote: »

its quality over quantity - Keane nearly single-handedly got us to that World Cup finals - and was also our best player at the 1994 tournament - after Paul McGrath he was the best player i saw in a green shirt ... now back to giggs

No he didn't. It's funny how our performances/results in the finals without him more or less matched those of the qualifiers (if not bettered). It was a great TEAM of which Keane was a valuable part.

Now back to Giggs.

DOC09UNAM

bamboozling wrote: »

So you are telling me that between 1991 and 2002 Ireland played 105 games yet Wales between 1991 and 2007 played 115. That is scarcely believable. Where exactly are you getting these stats from or are you pulling them out of your arse?

How many competetive competetions did Ireland make it to that Wales didn't?

Use your brain buddy.

ShamoBuc

I'm really bamboozled by what is going on here!

thebaz

bonerm wrote: »

No he didn't. It's funny how our performances/results in the finals without him more or less matched those of the qualifiers (if not bettered). It was a great TEAM of which Keane was a valuable part.

Now back to Giggs.

he was our best plater in those qualifiers , I'm not excusing what he did afterwards, or doubting the teams performance in that WC after he left - but his contribution to Irish football to that point and for that period was only equalled, if not bettered than P. Mc Grath

bamboozling

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

How many competetive competetions did Ireland make it to that Wales didn't?

Use your brain buddy.

We'll say World Cups 1994 and 2002 which accounts for 8 games. Still a bit of a hole would you not say?

parker kent

bamboozling wrote: »

Lets not forget Keane's 3 years of exile and his season long knee injury. That would count for at least 30 maybe 40 caps I would think.

Giggs has no excuse.

Giggs has had chronic hamstring issues for the majority of his career. He has regularly missed games through injury. He hasn't even been able to sprint since 2002. Of course he was not unable to play when Wales had a friendly, but the guys hamstrings are in a woeful state. He needed to rest them whenever possible. Friendlies were a great chance to do so.

Rhodri Giggs
Brother of the long-serving Manchester United winger

I don't think many people know that from about 2002-03, because he was having problems with his hamstrings, Ryan stopped going flat out. He's not even been flat out for the last seven or eight years. Which is unbelievable really, because he was sprinting and his hamstrings were starting to go so he tried a lot of things to stop that, food-wise and sleeping-wise. Then he started to stride instead of sprint. Which slowed him down a bit, but not that much.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/dec/12/bbc-sports-personality-friends-family

Xavi6

Not sure how, of all the United players that you could hate, Giggs is coming in for criticism. The fact that he's still an important cog in a top team at his age says it all. He's adapted his game with his pace gone and is much more of a passing midfielder than a flying winger. You have to respect that.

I do agree that he should have bothered for more Welsh friendlies and led by example. It's pretty well known that he pulled out of squads all the time only to show up for United the following weekend. However if it's played a part in prolonging his career than United fans aren't really going to give a shit.

Btw, great and all a player he was/is, that goal against Arsenal is seriously overrated.

Pro. F

bamboozling wrote: »

And another Giggs, while a legend, is over rated. He was never the stand out member of United and has always been inconsistent. He scored 1 amazing goal which was the turning point in the treble and for that I feel he gets very good press. He was never the player to lead from the front, I think he was more than happy to let Scholes, Keane and Neville show leadership.

But look t everyone has their faults. He hasn't many and will go down as a great player. More for what he has won rather than what he did himself.

You are wrong.

He was a stand out attacking player for United on countless occasions during his prime. He was a winger who scored goals, provided assists, frightened the bejesus out of defenders and did good work tracking back. Trying to deny those qualities by saying that he didn't ''lead from the front'' is nonsense.

thebaz

Xavi6 wrote: »

Btw, great and all a player he was/is, that goal against Arsenal is seriously overrated.

watching it now, 10 years later on youtube, possibly - but live back then , the importance of the goal and timing , makes it a stand out for me , bit like maradonna's goal against england - not comparing giggs to maradonna - whos career upped another ante again

grames_bond

Xavi6 wrote: »

Btw, great and all a player he was/is, that goal against Arsenal is seriously overrated.

:eek: Blasphemy!!! you are just afraid of the hairy chest!!

partyndbs

Xavi6 wrote: »

Btw, great and all a player he was/is, that goal against Arsenal is seriously overrated.

how?

Xavi6

partyndbs wrote: »

how?

Not one player even attempts a tackle and Seaman went down easier than a Thai hooker. A keeper of his calibre should've stood up and saved it.

Dempsey

Xavi6 wrote: »

Not one player even attempts a tackle and Seaman went down easier than a Thai hooker. A keeper of his calibre should've stood up and saved it.

Could say that about Maradona goal against England too

recylingbin

Giggs, Keane, Scholes, Berbatov...what is it that makes these players so loyal?