cars without power steering

mondeo

Are there any new cars on the road today without powersteering?

Is there anyone here driving a car on a daily basis which does not have the aid of power steering?

A friend of mine says a proper driving enthusiast will prefer not to have any driving aids whatsoever so he can feel every cornor and imperfection on the road through the steering/Chassis.

JerCotter7

mondeo wrote: »

Are there any new cars on the road today without powersteering?

Is there anyone here driving a car on a daily basis which does not have the aid of power steering?

A friend of mine says a proper driving enthusiast will prefer not to have any driving aids whatsoever so he can feel every cornor and imperfection on the road through the steering/Chassis.

Only someone with a track car would prefer not to have power steering. Same as ABS. Give slight benefits on a track but not worth it on the road.

That's my opinion on it anyway. Hate not having power steering. Gave me so many cramps in my arm.

Senna

Sounds like something only a person who cant afford (but wants) a new car would say

squod

Tata Nano.

Nissan doctor

Your friends opinion is based on his second hand knowledge of how cars work IMO. In the early days of power steering they often numbed the steering and better feel could be had from not having power steering.

However modern systems with various speed sensitivity etc can enhance steering feel.
F1, rally, touring cars etc etc all have power steering.

colm_mcm

odhuill

Do any of you know what is the average price to get a second key for my car

Guy:Incognito

odhuill wrote: »

Do any of you know what is the average price to get a second key for my car

€63.37

Nissan doctor

odhuill wrote: »

Do any of you know what is the average price to get a second key for my car

Someone is new to forums:D

redsteveireland

odhuill wrote: »

Do any of you know what is the average price to get a second key for my car

You might want to start a new thread on that. Give plenty of info. car, type of key etc. and most people will be more than willing to help out.

BostonB

Depends. You can have a car without power steering that is terrible, and a car with power steering thats great. Its how everything is set up and designed rather than simply does it have power steering.

That said its a car was set up correctly, then you should get more "feel" without power steering. I think I preferred it. Hard to remember now. Most cars didn't have power steering in the 80's and early 90's.

But for everyday driving you won't notice it. Cars without power steering, were often very heavy at low speeds and parking. Also cars these days are bigger and heavier, with bigger wheels. All of which adds weight to the steering. Impossible to drive them without power steering I'd imagine.

Anan1

mondeo wrote: »

Is there anyone here driving a car on a daily basis which does not have the aid of power steering?

I drove a car without PS regularly until last summer.

mondeo wrote: »

A friend of mine says a proper driving enthusiast will prefer not to have any driving aids whatsoever so he can feel every cornor and imperfection on the road through the steering/Chassis.

Ish. You do get a bit more feel, but also more weight and less resistance to kickback. Much like some people here will tell you that real drivers prefer manual transmission, it's IMO sometimes true.

Green Hornet

I find the electric steering in the newer cars poor in relation to feedback. Could never get used to it but I suppose it will improve.

Barr

I had to drive a Seat Arosa without p/s for a day last year. A painful experience with heavy steering.

Pyridine

Drive a 1997 Seat Ibiza 998 cc with no power steering, no electric windows, no ABS etc. The only time that I would wish for power steering is when I'm doing a turnabout (3-point turn in old money) on a tight narrow road. Jesus the sweat!

Other than that the only other time I noticed a difference in the steering was during icy conditions. When the steering felt particularly light I knew to take it EXTRA handy as there was bad ice on the roads. There's certainly a marked change in ease compared to a car with power steering anyway. It's a handy guide to road conditions.

Esel

Pyridine wrote: »

The only time that I would wish for power steering is when I'm doing a turnabout (3-point turn in old money) on a tight narrow road. Jesus the sweat!

The trick is to only turn the wheels when the vehicle is moving (even barely moving). Makes a major difference!

PaulKK

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

€63.37

Post of the week!

-Corkie-

PaulKK wrote: »

Post of the week!

I know wasnt there a thread the other week taking the pixs out of random posts like that!!!. Great reply though!!!:D

Recon

I have a 96 VW polo, no power steering, great little car.

ianobrien

Esel wrote: »

The trick is to only turn the wheels when the vehicle is moving (even barely moving). Makes a major difference!

Absolutely right.

Moving the car slightly (even below walking pace) makes a major difference in maneuvering a car that doesn;t have power steering.

However, the amount of people that have forgotten that trick when driving cars without power steering is amazing

unkel

Pyridine wrote: »

Drive a 1997 Seat Ibiza 998 cc with no power steering, no electric windows, no ABS etc. The only time that I would wish for power steering is when I'm doing a turnabout (3-point turn in old money) on a tight narrow road. Jesus the sweat!

And imagine that only a bit more than 10 years ago many people (including small girls and fragile old ladies ) were driving cars without power steering. In my 25 years of driving, the first half of that was mainly car without power steering and the second half mainly cars with.

Victor Meldrew

unkel wrote: »

And imagine that only a bit more than 10 years ago many people (including small girls and fragile old ladies ) were driving cars without power steering. In my 25 years of driving, the first half of that was mainly car without power steering and the second half mainly cars with.

I remember parking my then GF's (now Wife) 11 year old '87 micra and being shocked how she even drove it anywhere. Was not helped by her not having checked the air pressures since she had bought it 2 years previously. 13 years on, and all car maintenance is still done by me.

I can also remember people saying "oh, PS requires real sensitivity as you'll over steer and put it in a wall"

different decades, different BS

mantaraver

Most of my driving career has been spent in various opel manta's, none of which had power steering. I found the feedback from the road surface through the wheel to be excellent and when cornering hard I can even feel the front tyres start to understeer ( easily corrected, more wellie:D) Never really had any problems with heavy steering either, despite wide wheels and a small steering wheel. As was mentioned previously, easy when the car was moving slightly.

Now as a complete contrast to this, I recently bought missus mantaraver a wee 99 corsa to learn to drive in. It had powersteering. Bloody sensitive too and I almost went into the ditch a few times,lol. It was very un-nerving to drive as there was very little feel for what the wheels were doing and it all happened too quick as I was constantly over correcting the steering. Felt horrible....

.....now recently bought an r32 skyline and the power steering in it is fappin' amazing. Light but with great control, you would hardly know it was there. That said, the skylines are well known for their handling :cool:;)

Max_Damage

All of my cars have no power steering.

Good for the arm muscles!

Crasp

I think, like all driving aids, people should learn how to drive without them. Things like how to drive without ABS are essential to being a good driver.

I think PS is the same, but not crucial. Everyone should spend a few weeks driving a car without PS to see what it's like. Like the poster above who thought the turnabout was difficult, and those with experience advised to keep the car rolling. I'm sure the poster knew this, but many people don't!


The thing I don't like about PS is when you lose it, the steering goes so light it can be very hard to regain control. The steering wheel gets a mind of its own.



Also, I find that modern cars are so much heavier and wouldn't work without it. Anyone who has killed the ignition 50m before the driveway while sneaking home late at night will know how hard it is to muscle a modern car into the driverway without PS :pac:

peasant

Crasp wrote: »

Also, I find that modern cars are so much heavier and wouldn't work without it. Anyone who has killed the ignition 50m before the driveway while sneaking home late at night will know how hard it is to muscle a modern car into the driverway without PS :pac:

That's because non-working power steering is much heavier to turn than no power steering at all.

My ancient van doesn't have power steering, and like others said, the feedback from the steering while while driving is excellent, it really tells you about the road and your road holding.


Some cars have great, responsive PS, but I have driven cars (Hyundai i30 springs to mind) where the power steering was atrocious. No feedback whatsoever ...you could have replaced the steering wheel with a joystick and not noticed a difference ..totally remote driving, terrible.

Crasp

peasant wrote: »

That's because non-working power steering is much heavier to turn than no power steering at all.

My ancient van doesn't have power steering, and like others said, the feedback from the steering while while driving is excellent, it really tells you about the road and your road holding.


Some cars have great, responsive PS, but I have driven cars (Hyundai i30 springs to mind) where the power steering was atrocious. No feedback whatsoever ...you could have replaced the steering wheel with a joystick and not noticed a difference ..totally remote driving, terrible.

Yup i agree with this, driven the family clio a few times and I thought the PS was ****ed in it, turns out that's just what it drives like


I too like driving without PS like I said, it's just when you're swapping ends and trying to get some opposite lock on, the steering wheel has a mind of it's own!

Big Nasty

peasant wrote: »

That's because non-working power steering is much heavier to turn than no power steering at all.

Was going to a show last year and one of the lads wanted to bring both of his cars so my missus drove his 'Vette. She got out of the car bitching and moaning and said she couldn't park it so I had to take over - turns out the belt had jumped and the p/s was non existant. Tore the arms out of myself trying to park it!

biko

This car doesn't need power steering either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTEmsA2HJME

BostonB

I think cars without PS have the steering and suspension designed specifically to reduce the weight of the steering. Cars with PS don't bother with this.

So you can't compare a car with broken steering with one thats designed not to have it.

dougie-lampkin

mondeo wrote: »

A friend of mine says a proper driving enthusiast will prefer not to have any driving aids whatsoever so he can feel every cornor and imperfection on the road through the steering/Chassis.

This. I drive a '94 Mini as a daily. No power steering, no ABS, no airbags, etc., just two basic seatbelts. The only touch of modern motoring is the servo assisted brakes, which might as well not be there for all the good they do it. I can feel everything down to the pattern of the road through the wheel, and the slightest minute turn of the wheel is relayed to the front wheels directly through solid gears.

Yea it's a pain when it comes to parallel parking around town, but I trust it far more than a car with power steering when it comes to twisty back roads. It gives perfect feedback of the road, especially if I want to drive spirited. Aside from power steering, I can feel exactly what the car is doing through the body, with the old style simple suspension (although I have changed to coilovers on the front, which give even more feedback).

I don't think it any coincidence one of the world's most renowned handling cars comes with no driving aids. Sure ESP, TCS, ECS, etc. are nice, but where's the fun in having a computer drive for you? I find having the car try and swap ends is far more entertaining with no assists or crumple zones or any of that health and safety lark, especially with FWD and a featherweight back end in a 600kg car

The same can be said for having a car with a carb or EFI. The throttle on my car is directly linked to how much fuel goes in, by a mechanical connection to the carb. Far more fun than having an ECU decide how much throttle to apply based on 54398 parameters

JerCotter7 wrote: »

Only someone with a track car would prefer not to have power steering. Same as ABS. Give slight benefits on a track but not worth it on the road.

While ABS is definitely a benefit on the road, PAS is a hindrance IMO. For safety purposes, having the steering wheel directly linked to the front wheels with simple mechanical joints is always going to be safer than having electronics in between. I can feel with a tiny flick of the wheel to either side what the grip level of the road surface is like, should I need to avoid an obstacle or perform an emergency stop. I can then better adjust my speed, distance to car in front, road position, etc. based on the feedback. Whether you're on ice or rubber a car with PAS would have the same feel to the steering.

BostonB

Some people how ever are completely numb to how a car responds. They wouldn't notice if it had 4 flat tires. Its not going to make ant difference to those people.

Joe 90

ianobrien wrote: »

Absolutely right.

Moving the car slightly (even below walking pace) makes a major difference in maneuvering a car that doesn;t have power steering.

However, the amount of people that have forgotten that trick when driving cars without power steering is amazing

And i bet that the ones with power steering who turn the wheel while the car is stationery will complain about bills for ball joints etc.

woody33

My little Polo has no PS which is fine most of the time, but it seems to take an awful lot of steering wheel turning to make it go around a corner. I magine the steering is much lower geared than the PS models.

johnos1984

Joe 90 wrote: »

And i bet that the ones with power steering who turn the wheel while the car is stationery will complain about bills for ball joints etc.

Add to that owners of heavy diesel cars who just seem to eat through front tyre

ianobrien

johnos1984 wrote: »

Add to that owners of heavy diesel cars who just seem to eat through front tyre

And Power Steering pumps as well.....

dougie-lampkin

woody33 wrote: »

My little Polo has no PS which is fine most of the time, but it seems to take an awful lot of steering wheel turning to make it go around a corner. I magine the steering is much lower geared than the PS models.

Checked your front tyre pressures? If either of mine go below ~25 psi the steering has no response, having no PAS should make your steering more responsive, not less.

dr.fuzzenstein

Not many today, but remember a 1973 Ford Cortina I once had.
Don't think it even had a brake servo, you'd have to stand on the pedal and it would go from not slowing down at all to locking up and nearly killing you.
Live rear axle and RWD combined with skinny, little tires made for entertaining handling, there was not motor to squirt water onto the windscreen, you had to pump a little bubble on the floor with your foot.
Manual windows (naturally), no central locking, no seat belts in the back, no clock, might have had a radio (fitted later of course), no front or rear fogs, fusebox had about 5 fuses in it, no fuel injection, no ABS, no electric mirrors, other than that it had everything:D.
Except power steering of course.
And because the fan did not have a temperature operated switch it would overheat in traffic.
Ah, the joys of classic motoring...

Leonard Hofstadter

I think it depends on what kind of power steering you're on about.

It is very possible to make hydraulic power steering give plenty of feedback and at the same time be light enough to make parking a lot easier.

Thus far, no-one seems to have made an electric setup that offers good feedback - even the systems that make the steering weigh up as speed increases don't have the seem feeling that a proper hydraulic setup has.

woody33

Dougie, yep, I keep the tyre pressures a little above the recommended to aid steering and hopefully economy. Anything more than 3 or 4 psi and the ride becomes too hard. The lack of PS is fine, but less wheel-twirling on corners might be nice. And dr.fuzz, what, your Cortina had wind down windows? Luxury. My mini had those little windows half of which slid sideways to open. Ah the good old days.

Daegerty

I think the Dacia Sandero is available without power steering.

The Ariel Atom and most kit cars wouldn't have power steering either

Joe 90

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Not many today, but remember a 1973 Ford Cortina I once had.
Don't think it even had a brake servo, you'd have to stand on the pedal and it would go from not slowing down at all to locking up and nearly killing you.
Live rear axle and RWD combined with skinny, little tires made for entertaining handling, there was not motor to squirt water onto the windscreen, you had to pump a little bubble on the floor with your foot.
Manual windows (naturally), no central locking, no seat belts in the back, no clock, might have had a radio (fitted later of course), no front or rear fogs, fusebox had about 5 fuses in it, no fuel injection, no ABS, no electric mirrors, other than that it had everything:D.
Except power steering of course.
And because the fan did not have a temperature operated switch it would overheat in traffic.
Ah, the joys of classic motoring...

Well the S1 Exige has none of the following:
Power steering
Brake servo
ABS
Central locking
Clock
It does have:
Fuel injection
Wind up windows
Probably the best road behaviour ever in a production road car.
Air bags
Electric mirrors
Sun visors
Ash tray

kincaid

my friend has a 2002 peugeot 106 that has not got power steering..
he has it 4 years now ... good little car but he will probably drive it till it done as get nothing now for it as no one now would ever buy one without the PS..

Tea 1000

peasant wrote: »

Some cars have great, responsive PS, but I have driven cars (Hyundai i30 springs to mind) where the power steering was atrocious. No feedback whatsoever ...you could have replaced the steering wheel with a joystick and not noticed a difference ..totally remote driving, terrible.

Audi's suffer from similar lack of feedback.
Not everything with no powersteering will give excellent feedback either, in the same way that not everything with power steering gives no feedback.

no1beemerfan

My brother-in-law's '05 Elise has no power steering. Makes for a lot more fun driving.

dr.fuzzenstein

Joe 90 wrote: »

Well the S1 Exige has none of the following:
Power steering
Brake servo
ABS
Central locking
Clock
It does have:
Fuel injection
Wind up windows
Probably the best road behaviour ever in a production road car.
Air bags
Electric mirrors
Sun visors
Ash tray

I well believe it.
I dare say it might handle rather better than my 30 year old Ford, at 70 mp/h you needed nappies in it, it was that scary.