vote for Fine Gael is a vote for stag hunting.

RandolphEsq

Violafy wrote: »

True - and I'm not voting for Labour either. I don't trust them on this issue at all - particularly as I believe they said they supported the ban last year before actually voting against it on the day. Sinn Féin voted against the ban too.
I don't care if FG/Labour bring back the Celtic Tiger - I still won't support them if they want to allow such disgusting, outdated cruelty to happen. Bloody eejits! :mad::rolleyes:

But that's just like, your opinion man

telekon

Violafy wrote: »

True - and I'm not voting for Labour either. I don't trust them on this issue at all - particularly as I believe they said they supported the ban last year before actually voting against it on the day. Sinn Féin voted against the ban too.
I don't care if FG/Labour bring back the Celtic Tiger - I still won't support them if they want to allow such disgusting, outdated cruelty to happen. Bloody eejits! :mad::rolleyes:

Personally, I never want to see the Celtic Tiger years repeated in this country again.

Materialism was rampant, disgusting amounts of money were being bandied about while even basic manners went out the window as far as I could tell...it was Bertie's dream society.

I would much rather the sustainable economic growth of the mid 1990s under the rainbow coalition thanks...

Violafy

RandolphEsq wrote: »

But that's just like, your opinion man

Er, it's fact that staghunting is cruel, actually. It's my opinion not to vote for support any Party that endorses it.

Ghost Estate

Violafy wrote: »

Er, it's fact that staghunting is cruel, actually. It's my opinion not to vote for support any Party that endorses it.

there are a lot of things out there more cruel than stag hunting. even if it was brought back we're still a bunch of bleeding hearts when it comes to animal welfare

want a slice of monkey brain or fried dog by any chance? plenty of that (and more) to be got in other countries that we dare not criticise because all our cheap electronic entertainment stuff comes from there so we can stay in our apartments isolated in comfort from the real world.

Tim Robbins

bipedalhumanoid wrote: »

Animals aren't people.

Evolution my friend. We are cousins and sentient creatures..

liveline

I doubt that this policy will have much impact on FG's potential vote, either way. Ultimately people are more likely to vote on issues such as economic policy. Also, I suspect that FG will never actually reverse this ban and a lot of people would suspect the same. Nonetheless, it is disappointing that FG would be prepared to subject animals to needless cruelty in the search of votes from people that get a sick pleasure out of terrorising animals.

TippFan77

Rosahane wrote: »

This debate has been going on and on on Politics.ie. Same arguments by the antis, same limited number of people all the time. All sorts of irrelevent rubbish.

However it seems that they have established that there are a grand total of

...wait for it

61 Antis nationwide that cause all the fuss:P

I'd say FG are seriously worred by this level of drop in their support - 0.005%

Depends on what one means by "anti". Is anyone who opposes a given bloodsport and wants it banned an "anti"? Opinion polls say a big majority of the population hold that view, so that would make millions of antis.

TippFan77

Ghost Estate wrote: »

there are a lot of things out there more cruel than stag hunting. even if it was brought back we're still a bunch of bleeding hearts when it comes to animal welfare

want a slice of monkey brain or fried dog by any chance? plenty of that (and more) to be got in other countries that we dare not criticise because all our cheap electronic entertainment stuff comes from there so we can stay in our apartments isolated in comfort from the real world.

Never persuaded by this type of whataboutery that goes: Oh sure there's worse things happening in such a place...

The fact that massacres occur in Burma doesn't justify even one murder here...

The fact Bear baiting still happens in Pakistan doesn't justify stag hunting happening here.

Deal with the issue.

TippFan77

johngalway wrote: »

1,2,3,4 FG for me

Repeal of the Stag Hunting ban is a bonus.

Labour were to get my 5th preference until Gilmore came out against repealing the ban, they can sod off now :pac:

There are plenty more important FF/Green policies that need reversing, but it's satisfying to see one agitated for mostly by an uninformed urban minority interfering in a rural activity get the spotlight, and for a change start heading in the correct direction!

You're obviously not a stag then? If you were, I doubt you'd be happy about having to be terrorised for fun...chased until you drop from exhaustion, covered in blood and muck, tongue hanging out. Being on the receiving of the sick joke that is the "sport" of stag hunting aint nice.

Amtmann

johngalway wrote: »

There are plenty more important FF/Green policies that need reversing, but it's satisfying to see one agitated for mostly by an uninformed urban minority interfering in a rural activity get the spotlight, and for a change start heading in the correct direction!

I must disagree with you John. I'm also from a rural background and many members of my immediate and extended family keep greyhounds. I have seen, first hand unfortunately, what goes on with regard to the 'blooding' of dogs, and I have also seen the arrogance, destruction and cruelty wrought by fox-hunters, who also vandalise badger setts (which are protected under law) during their bouts of tally-hoing. This is not an urban-rural thing, but a matter of principle.

I don't think that coursing, fox-hunting or stag-hunting have any place in a modern society whether it be urban or rural, and I was very annoyed to read in FG's manifesto that the party will reverse the recent ban. However, my main concern in this election is the economy. For this and a host of other reasons I will vote FG regardless of their stance on stag-hunting. But I fully intend to lobby for change from within the party.

DWCommuter

Tremelo wrote: »

I must disagree with you John. I'm also from a rural background and many members of my immediate and extended family keep greyhounds. I have seen, first hand unfortunately, what goes on with regard to the 'blooding' of dogs, and I have also seen the arrogance, destruction and cruelty wrought by fox-hunters, who also vandalise badger setts (which are protected under law) during their bouts of tally-hoing. This is not an urban-rural thing, but a matter of principle.

I don't think that coursing, fox-hunting or stag-hunting have any place in a modern society whether it be urban or rural, and I was very annoyed to read in FG's manifesto that the party will reverse the recent ban. However, my main concern in this election is the economy. For this and a host of other reasons I will vote FG regardless of their stance on stag-hunting. But I fully intend to lobby for change from within the party.

Great to see someone vote on the basis of the more important matters and then look to achieve change in the less important matters. It frightens me to think people will vote on the basis of Stag Hunting.

P. Breathnach

DWCommuter wrote: »

... It frightens me to think people will vote on the basis of Stag Hunting.

If people should not vote on the basis of stag hunting, why should FG put a stag-hunting policy in its manifesto?

RandolphEsq

TippFan77 wrote: »

You're obviously not a stag then? If you were, I doubt you'd be happy about having to be terrorised for fun...chased until you drop from exhaustion, covered in blood and muck, tongue hanging out. Being on the receiving of the sick joke that is the "sport" of stag hunting aint nice.

Game, set and match: you just asked the poster to imagine he was a hunted stag, are you alright?

jimmycrackcorm

The only people who give a crap about stag hunting bans or not are statistically nobodies.

Reilly616

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The only people who give a crap about stag hunting bans or not are statistically nobodies.

Source?

johngalway

Tremelo wrote: »

I don't think that coursing, fox-hunting or stag-hunting have any place in a modern society whether it be urban or rural, and I was very annoyed to read in FG's manifesto that the party will reverse the recent ban. However, my main concern in this election is the economy. For this and a host of other reasons I will vote FG regardless of their stance on stag-hunting. But I fully intend to lobby for change from within the party.

You don't think so. I do. If Sinn Fein were supporting the repeal, I wouldn't be voting for them. As I am already voting FG, I am happy to have a bonus like the prospect of a repeal. I, as a person living and working in a rural area, am happy that there is one party at least with the insight to realise that there are more and larger groups of people than the squeaky wheels Tippfan77 supports.

NO ONE, with anything to do with hunting or shooting believes the absolute lies from the "anti" groups which say that no other sport has anything to fear. Those people have agendas, they will not simply vanish once stag hunting is banned. Then it'll be coursing. Then it'll be hunting foxes with hounds. Then it'll be terriers. Then it'll be snaring. Then it'll be fishing. Then it'll be shooting. And so on.

It's extremely naive of those who support the squeaky wheels to think that those interested in hunting, shooting and other country side activities will stand idly by and be walked on.

bipedalhumanoid

wildswan wrote: »

There's more chance of animals having all the feelings we do then there is of god existing.

Wow how incredibly insightful. Can we have a round of applaus for captain obvious?

What other amazing insights do you have for us? Perhaps you can point out the sarcasm in this post?

bipedalhumanoid

Violafy wrote: »

The only idiotic thing I see about this thread/policy is you.

Awwww. I'm sure the greens will form a strong and influential part of the next Dail. Just like FFs last coalition partner.

bipedalhumanoid

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Evolution my friend. We are cousins and sentient creatures..

Yep Evolution. The cruel, uncaring force of nature that has resulted in the extinction of 99.9% of all species that have ever existed on this planet.

I'll give it some thought tonight over my juicy and tender veal steak. mmmm.

RandolphEsq

bipedalhumanoid wrote: »

Yep Evolution. The cruel, uncaring force of nature that has resulted in the extinction of 99.9% of all species that have ever existed on this planet.

I'll give it some thought tonight over my juicy and tender veal steak. mmmm.

Evolution is an unfeeling beast, I hope there is a party hoping to ban it

Amtmann

johngalway wrote: »

NO ONE, with anything to do with hunting or shooting believes the absolute lies from the "anti" groups which say that no other sport has anything to fear. Those people have agendas, they will not simply vanish once stag hunting is banned. Then it'll be coursing. Then it'll be hunting foxes with hounds. Then it'll be terriers. Then it'll be snaring. Then it'll be fishing. Then it'll be shooting. And so on.

Personally I would be quite happy if fox-hunting were banned. I'm no fan of coursing either, but I see a difference between it and fox-hunting in the sense that the purpose of hare coursing is not the killing of the hare. Fox-hunters want to kill the fox, however, and pursue it to that end. Only even if the fox outwits the hunters and manages to go to ground, they'll still dig him out. Hardly very sportsmanlike. They'll dig a fox out even if it is in a badger sett - and it is illegal to damage one of those.

At the end of the day, what exactly is there to "understand" about the culture of fox-hunting? It's pretty easy to understand as I see it. Some people get a thrill from riding around the fields on horses with a pack of dogs chasing a fox. That's essentially it.

I have no problem with shooting or fishing (provided they are done legitimately) and I do not think that these activities will ever be outlawed. There are fundamental differences between shooting and fishing on the one hand and activities like fox-hunting and stag-hunting on the other relating to pursuit and the manner of killing.

Retail Hell

considering the current state of the country, a law about banning or legalizing a sport the only matters to a very small group of people, dose not make it an important enough issue to question my choice of vote.

Right now Jobs, Emigration, tax, and the future of Ireland in the next 4 years, and the budgets, and austerity measures that the (current) government have signed us up to are the most important issues.

bipedalhumanoid

Retail Hell wrote: »

considering the current state of the country, a law about banning or legalizing a sport the only matters to a very small group of people, dose not make it an important enough issue to question my choice of vote.

Right now Jobs, Emigration, tax, and the future of Ireland in the next 4 years, and the budgets, and austerity measures that the (current) government have signed us up to are the most important issues.

+1

DWCommuter

P. Breathnach wrote: »

If people should not vote on the basis of stag hunting, why should FG put a stag-hunting policy in its manifesto?

Well that says more about the Irish electorate than FG.

Souljacker_

This is such a none issue! I'm no fan of stag hunting but it's going to be the last thing on my mind when choosing who to vote for.

there are far more imoartant moralist things to take a stance on, abortion for example.

Amtmann

Retail Hell wrote: »

considering the current state of the country, a law about banning or legalizing a sport the only matters to a very small group of people, dose not make it an important enough issue to question my choice of vote.

Right now Jobs, Emigration, tax, and the future of Ireland in the next 4 years, and the budgets, and austerity measures that the (current) government have signed us up to are the most important issues.

Souljacker_ wrote: »

This is such a none issue! I'm no fan of stag hunting but it's going to be the last thing on my mind when choosing who to vote for.

there are far more imoartant moralist things to take a stance on, abortion for example.

Like I said, stag-hunting won't affect who I vote for (i.e. Fine Gael) but this is a thread for discussing it nonetheless. There are hundreds of other threads for other issues after all.

Souljacker_

Tremelo wrote: »

Like I said, stag-hunting won't affect who I vote for (i.e. Fine Gael) but this is a thread for discussing it nonetheless. There are hundreds of other threads for other issues after all.

Sorry didn't mean to deride the thread, but just thought it was noteworthy to post my surprise at how this matter could infunce anyone in how they'd vote given the dire economic situation but I take your point on board

johngalway

Tremelo wrote: »

They'll dig a fox out even if it is in a badger sett - and it is illegal to damage one of those.

Yes, and? Report them if they're doing so, illegal stuff is illegal. Or are you saying they all do it?

Tremelo wrote: »

I have no problem with shooting or fishing (provided they are done legitimately) and I do not think that these activities will ever be outlawed. There are fundamental differences between shooting and fishing on the one hand and activities like fox-hunting and stag-hunting on the other relating to pursuit and the manner of killing.

You don't, fair enough. But realize that others do and will use/hijack any vehicle possible, and it's supporters, to further their own aims.

Divide and conquer is one of the oldest tools of war. What certain groups, and political parties, are doing is just that. Don't worry lads! We're not after ye, just those other neanderthals! Those are the kind of people who'll piss down your back and tell you it's raining.

Yeah, right. Until they do come for us. People engaged in hunting and fieldsports are already wise to this tactic.

Same as yourself, I'm a lot more concerned by the economic and political issues. But, I'm not that slow as to let those distract me from allowing other policies to be snuck in by the back door.

Amtmann

johngalway wrote: »

Yes, and? Report them if they're doing so, illegal stuff is illegal. Or are you saying they all do it?

You know perfectly well John that the authorities will only prosecute if they catch someone damaging a sett in the act. Reporting vandalism after the event is something I've often done, but to no avail whatsoever. I cannot say that they *all* do it, but given the attitude held by fox-hunters towards foxes, it's hardly a leap to hazard that *most* *probably* don't care much for badgers either. The hunts that gallop across the fields in my area always damage setts either by fully blocking all holes with earth (illegal) or by digging.

You don't, fair enough. But realize that others do and will use/hijack any vehicle possible, and it's supporters, to further their own aims.

I fully realise that there are fanatics who would like to ban everything. I really think you are overestimating the danger they present to people who like to shoot and fish, but I appreciate the reasons for your concern.

Divide and conquer is one of the oldest tools of war. What certain groups, and political parties, are doing is just that. Don't worry lads! We're not after ye, just those other neanderthals! Those are the kind of people who'll piss down your back and tell you it's raining.

Yeah, right. Until they do come for us. People engaged in hunting and fieldsports are already wise to this tactic.

So, straight question: hypothetically, would you be against a proposed ban on badger baiting and cock-fighting if these were still legal here? The rationale seems the same to me.

Same as yourself, I'm a lot more concerned by the economic and political issues. But, I'm not that slow as to let those distract me from allowing other policies to be snuck in by the back door.

Yes, these are the MAJOR issues to me. I also like FG's attitude to defence, foreign affairs, Irish, and several other things. There are a few things in the party's manifesto that don't appeal to me, but on the whole, it's the best on offer in my opinion.

vaalea

Retail Hell wrote: »

Right now Jobs, Emigration, tax, and the future of Ireland in the next 4 years, and the budgets, and austerity measures that the (current) government have signed us up to are the most important issues.

4 years.. very ambitious! http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/02/05/us-climate-arctic-idUSTRE6145M520100205