Coming to Australia? Don't leave your manners at home

sophia123

Reply to Hussey:
Yes, all backpackers share bedrooms ( roll eyes back ).
I repeat: this is a business concept utilised in backpacker hostels: not a residential concept!
Other nationalities have done the same thing in our complex too. However, only the Irish backpackers have caused the utmost disruption. I question any backpacker employing a business concept in a residential area. However, it is the Irish backpackers that have taken the concept to another level and act as though they're still in a hostel.

Mellor

sophia123 wrote: »

Irish backpackers do stand out from the rest of the backpackers. I do not agree that they are just like any other young crowd away from home. They are stangely anachronistic in their behaviour. They act like wizened old alcoholics in the way they approach their alcohol. Getting totally drunk and screaming out Irish songs all night and every night & wallowing in their "Irishness". They do not appear to have a concept of modern youth in the way that other nationalities have.
Irish backpackers ( bunk bed boys ) rent out apartments in our complex. They're not travellers as such they're just on an international pub crawl. Words can barely describe them!! They're parochial, have a mob mentality and are basically just escaping life. No respect for anyone who has a life and has to have a good nights sleep in order to go to work. They drink, herd, urinate off balconies and to top it all off share bedrooms to save money and call it freedom! How can anyone be taken seriously when they haven't even grown up enough to be able to afford to have their own bedroom? Sharing bedrooms ( a purely business concept) in a hostel is one thing; in a residential area is another thing.

To be honest to sound a little bitter.
Just because somebody has a different lifestyle does not make you better than them.
You don't have to 9 to 5 it everyday to have a life, frankly, some would consider than not having a life.

I imagine if most people were boring and never left the house outside of work they could afford their own room.

hussey

sophia123 wrote: »

Reply to Hussey:
Yes, all backpackers share bedrooms ( roll eyes back ).
I repeat: this is a business concept utilised in backpacker hostels: not a residential concept!
Other nationalities have done the same thing in our complex too. However, only the Irish backpackers have caused the utmost disruption. I question any backpacker employing a business concept in a residential area. However, it is the Irish backpackers that have taken the concept to another level and act as though they're still in a hostel.

Who are you to dictate how other people live? When I first came over I had little money and couldn't afford to shell out $150+ a week, so I shared a bedroom,
Also does your rule also apply to the thousands of uni students who share rooms?

so when people share a room it is not a "residential concept" but a "business concept" ... Get off your high horse, where do you suggest people sleep?

Also only it is only the "Irish in your building" not all Irish backpackers, please don't tar us with the same brush - I'm sure you can find plenty of Australians in London/Dublin who have the same behaviour

sophia123

"Just because somebody has a different lifestyle does not make you better than them."

If their lifestyle disrupts other people then there is cause for concern. I do not have a lifestyle which would disrupt other people! I certainly have respect for people who have to rest in order to go to work the next day. The Irish backpackers think they have the freedom to do what ever they want; when they want & where they want.

You seem to be responding with rhetorical abstract reasoning to what are essentially concrete experiences. One would say trying to defend the non defensible.

mandrake04

I am not a backpacker but I think there is nothing wrong with sharing a bedroom, in fact I myself share a bedroom ..........and dare I say it even a bed with my wife.

I highly recomend it.

hussey

sophia123 wrote: »

If their lifestyle disrupts other people then there is cause for concern.
I do not have a lifestyle which would disrupt other people! I certainly have respect for people who have to rest in order to go to work the next day. The Irish backpackers think they have the freedom to do what ever they want; when they want & where they want.

This isn't because they all share a bedroom, or are Irish, it's because they are pr*cks ...
You are implying all Irish backpackers are like this, and that is what we are offended about, and some rant about how people shouldn't share a room

You seem to be responding with rhetorical abstract reasoning to what are essentially concrete experiences. One would say trying to defend the non defensible.

Nobody is defending them we are defending backpackers who share a room and are Irish, who don't do these things.

You are tarring us all with the same brush .... Capish?

Mellor

Nobody defended them. They are probably louts. You are using "concrete experiences" relating to one group of people to form your opinion of a whole country.

It's ridiculous.

mandrake04

Well I dont understand how its a "backpacker employing a business concept", surely its the landlord or body corp thats employing the business concept?

In fairness Sofia I understand that you are annoyed by the behavior of some of my fellow countrymen, myself and a few other friends used to live in Randwick many years ago and moved to the innerwest to get away from the whole 'Bondi Trap' mentality. But to be honest not every Irish backpacker that lands at Sydney airport is a drunken fool, many bring plenty of money, skills and culture to our country.

Anytme I have rented a place we were instructed by the agent/landlord as to the max limit of adults allowed to reside there and it was respected, may I suggest if you have a problem with the noise/behavior you contact the Body Corp and make a complaint. I am sure this would be more productive than taking a cheap shot at an entire nation.

Zambia

Where is this place and what suburb?

sophia123

"You are using "concrete experiences" relating to one group of people to form your opinion of a whole country."

I am recording my observations. There have been many Irish backpackers in our complex & have caused many problems. In forming an opinion of a "whole country" I would not be relating to the backpackers in our complex.

It may or not be a coincidence that the backpackers who cause problems here have been Irish. Yes, they're louts. However, it still does not explain to me why it's the Irish backpackers that cause the problems. We have had many nationalities here - it is the Irish that have caused the problems. Urinating off balconies is the one that shocks the whole street!

I am simply trying to identify what is going on. Burying ones head in the sand and just saying "they're louts" or "you're having a cheap shot"etc does not explain in a satisfactory manner what is going on. Why do they wallow in their "Irishness" and drink more than anyone we have ever seen?

hussey

sophia123 wrote: »

I am simply trying to identify what is going on. Burying ones head in the sand and just saying "they're louts" or "you're having a cheap shot"etc does not explain in a satisfactory manner what is going on. Why do they wallow in their "Irishness" and drink more than anyone we have ever seen?

No you're trolling .... coming on to an Irish forum and tarring us all with the same brush ... No more please, how can we explain actions of people we never meet?

ArphaRima

I blame cheap air travel.

A pet hate of mine is those bloody jerseys. Wearing one abroad is akin to an Englishman donning the St George's Cross flag.
I spotted someone in Prague wearing a county jersey, with the irish flag wrapped around him, a football pattern shaved into his hair dancing in a nightclub with 2 beers in his hands.

As for the Aussies I have never met a people so keen on fighting and so low on morals. My experience of the expat Aussies I've met in particular (quite a few of them btw) is that they never pay their bill and would stab their brother to get a girl.

Back to the Irish abroad;
Cheap air travel is letting the worst of us out. A 400% travel tax should do nicely.

There are a few generalizations to play with.

endabob1

Go to any major city that's on the backpacker trail and you'll find the same situation, go to London and you'll find Australians, Kiwis, South Africans sleeping 2,3,4 to a room in flats & houses to save money for later travels; Go to the Redback in Acton on a Sunday morning and tell me it's "normal"? Dozens of Antipodeans getting pi$$ed an looking for a small slice of home. The average age of most backpackers is very early 20's far away from home letting loose, it gets out of hand sometimes, fact of life whatever the nationality.

mandrake04

You should record it on video and then post it on here so we can all get the picture, that would be more useful than making generalisations that all Irish are the same. Really you are starting to lose credibilty by tarring everyone with the same brush.

What suburb/area is this complex in and what is your estimation as to how many of these people live there?

hussey

Mod I asked people to stop this tarring with same brush, Yellows handed out - next one will be red, it's pure trolling

Munster_Gal

Jaysus! Reading all this would nearly make me afraid to wear my Munster/Ireland jersey when I get to Melbourne..........

I can't understand why people are tarring all Irish with the same brush! Yes there's obviously a percentage of them that get hammered and act the maggot over there..... but sure other nationalities do it too... the same as on a regular sun holiday in Spain/Portugal/Greece....

I could just as easily start mouthing off about the British just because they've been loud when I've been on hols etc abroad!

Unfortunately, this happens everywhere you go and it's not just the Irish!

spunkymunky

Sorry Sophie, i dont see what your problem is.
Its Irish tradition and a right of passage!! They are now considered men and will be respected by all who meet them! And here's you complaining about this. How dare you insult this important Irish, sorry OIRISH tradition that we all undertake throughout life!:mad::p:p

On a lighter note, this is a few people in probably a party complex literally taking the piss. I was an Irish backpacker, as im sure a lot of people on this forum are, and i was respectful of my surrounding but still let the hair down for a bit of craic. Maybe you should join them and lighten up.
Munky

And what does trolling mean?

jank

Munster_Gal wrote: »

Jaysus! Reading all this would nearly make me afraid to wear my Munster/Ireland jersey when I get to Melbourne..........

I can't understand why people are tarring all Irish with the same brush! Yes there's obviously a percentage of them that get hammered and act the maggot over there..... but sure other nationalities do it too... the same as on a regular sun holiday in Spain/Portugal/Greece....

I could just as easily start mouthing off about the British just because they've been loud when I've been on hols etc abroad!

Unfortunately, this happens everywhere you go and it's not just the Irish!

Irish backpackers have a bad reputation abroad some of it un-deserved but alot of it is deserved unfortunately. You dont see germans, swiss, french, spanish etc do what the Irish do in places like Bondi. Of course not all are like that but there is a sizable minority that do.

Wearing GAA and rugby jerseys abroad? To me it is just a sign of insecurity. The only times it would be acceptable is Paddys day or when going to an actual match with Ireland in it! Otherwise what are trying to prove?

The Sweeper

I can understand some of what Sophia123 is saying.

When I travel, it's to immerse myself in other cultures. I don't go to Irish bars and I don't settle in Irish-inhabited locations. My Irishness is simply a part of who I am. It's not something I wear like a suit of armour to protect me in all interactions abroad.

I have never referred to myself as 'a paddy'. I don't own a GAA jersey (was never a fan when I lived in Ireland), but I find the culture of wearing sporting jerseys anywhere expect to sporting events to be a little odd regardless of what nationality is doing it.

As for singing the rebel songs loudly while getting drunk seven nights a week, sleeping 20 to a room and pissing off balconies, part of that behaviour is because some young Irish people seem to be more concerned with perpetuating the concept of the drunk Irish than they are with anything else. The other part of it is the amount of alcohol consumed - very few nationalities behave well when plastered. If you're going to be plastered seven nights a week, you're probably going to behave quite badly on a more regular basis than if you were sober.

However when it comes to the behaviour Sophia123 is describing, I don't those people are behaving that way because they're Irish.

I think it's because they're fuckin eejits.

Xavi6

The snobbery towards people who wear jerseys as a casual item of clothing is bloody annoying. I'm no Eire 32 head but I'll wear my Dublin jersey on a Saturday afternoon while out shopping or my Shelbourne jacket when it's pissing down with rain. They're, imo, nice and comfortable.

Granted there are **** who wear it as some sort of uniform but they're also the type who don't see anything but the inside of an Irish bar so aren't all that significant anyway in the grand scheme of things.

Is someone who wears a U2 t-shirt (god forbid) seen in the same light? Of course not.

The Sweeper

Xavi6 wrote: »

The snobbery towards people who wear jerseys as a casual item of clothing is bloody annoying.

And accusations of being a snob because you don't understand why someone would wear a sporting jersey socially are equally bloody annoying.

To me, a sporting jersey is a statement. It's a statement of support for a team, a nationality, a side, and all of the incumbent implications that go with that. Hence I find it peculiar when people wear those jerseys socially because I feel like it makes the above statements in a social setting. (It never occurs to me that either people wear them because they have nothing else clean, or because they're comfortable.) Then I wonder why people feel the need to make those statements in a social setting.

I have a t-shirt with a slogan that says 'If I have to find Jesus, does that mean he's hiding?' and a picture of a bearded character in a long white robe peeking out from behind a bush. I don't wear it unless I'm prepared for people to comment on it.

hussey

I don't think that was aimed directly at you sweeper.

but Xavi is right, people instantly judge people on GAA jerseys, but not Man Utd jerseys etc
I myself have done it several times, but we are in Australia, it can get bloody hot and sports jerseys can be ideal (they seem to be sweat resistant)

I wear my white Utd jersey a lot in the summer, as I can go for walks without looking ridiculous with huge sweat marks on my back and underarms.

The Sweeper

FWIW I feel the same way about GAA and soccer jerseys.

So it doesn't matter what sporting top you have on, I'm judging you.

/sulks

joe9joe9

I never wear a GAA or soccer jersey in a social setting, but it doesn’t bother me if someone does. I would be more inclined to wear a rugby jersey – but only because I think they look better (I’m more of a GAA fan too).

To be honest, I think the whole ‘Bondi backpackers’ thing is blown out of proportion. I drink there regularly and have yet to see any real trouble. Sure, the Irish there drink too much – but I have yet to see any violence - not one punch thrown, in nearly the year I have been there. I don’t believe any of the Irish there purposely bother any locals (think back to that A Current Affair piece - saying the Irish stand out on the street and dont let him pass... bull***t).

It looks a lot worse because it is in a shopping area – so if someone is being removed from a pub or there are any arguments/shouting/singing outside, it looks a lot worse than if it were in Kings Cross or somewhere.

I am not embarrassed to be Irish in any way, but its disappointing to see that we are being seen in this light. Pity something can’t be done to show that we add to the area in some way and offset some of the negative publicity.

I understand $000’s were raised for the Queensland floods in the Tea Gardens (and possibly CnBull) a few months ago – I’d imagine 90% of this would have been from the Irish backpackers/residents but wonder if anyone even noticed.

old_aussie

hussey wrote: »

I but Xavi is right, people instantly judge people on GAA jerseys, but not Man Utd jerseys etc
I myself have done it several times, but we are in Australia, it can get bloody hot and sports jerseys can be ideal (they seem to be sweat resistant)

What would fairdinkum Aussies know about GAA jerseys?

It's only another Irishman whou would recognise that it's an Irishman running around being "Irish" in a GAA jersey.

It's not like Aussies would stay up all night to watch a GAA match, like they might to watch a match involving world renown teams like Man United and Barcelona.

Xavi6

The Sweeper wrote: »

And accusations of being a snob because you don't understand why someone would wear a sporting jersey socially are equally bloody annoying.

How difficult is it to understand that some people treat a football shirt in the same way they treat a t-shirt or a shirt for Target? It's an item of clothing that's comfortable so I wear it.

As in my previous example, do you frown upon someone wearing a U2 Elevation Tour t-shirt?

Mellor

The Sweeper wrote: »

FWIW I feel the same way about GAA and soccer jerseys.

So it doesn't matter what sporting top you have on, I'm judging you.

/sulks

I'm from Dublin. I support their GAA teams. I also own a Dublin jersey. I'll wear it out next Sunday when i watch the leinster final. I think thats reasonable.
This would be making a statement, as you suggest above.

But I've also wore it to the gym, or out for a run. As mentioned its sweat resistant. Or if i was popping up to the shop i might throw it on. In this case its just a piece of Casual clothing. It might not be suited to your taste, Which is fine. But i think that judging me for wearing it is silly. As for the other poster, who suggested I'm insecure, I assure you that your assumption is ridiculous. I'd never judge somebody on their clothing, i think its sorta prejudiced.

Zambia

On the clothing front we all Judge on clothing.

If we did not judge on clothing why would we bother personnally selecting items to wear.

We expect to be judged on what we wear.

Ellis Dee

MyKeyG wrote: »

GAA jerseys my $%&£. I don't think I've ever met a Kiwi not wearing an All Black shirt capable of swearing like a sailor, falling about the place drunk.

Yes, almost every shop that sells T-shirts in New Zealand has one that says: "I support two teams: New Zealand and whoever is playing Australia." I really liked the Kiwis when I was there, and their heavish drinking didn't make them obnoxious.

MyKeyG wrote: »

If the author wasn't so overly dramatic I might have believed it but alas this article to anybody with more than two brain cells in their head reflects a chip on his shoulder that goes far beyond his lies.

I agree. he sounds like one of those Irish immigrants in Australia who is forever ranting on about the evils of immigration. Basically, the message that twerps like that want to convey is: look at me and all the slobs where I came from, and which I'm not. Pathetic.:rolleyes:

The Sweeper

Mellor wrote: »

I'm from Dublin. I support their GAA teams. I also own a Dublin jersey. I'll wear it out next Sunday when i watch the leinster final. I think thats reasonable.
This would be making a statement, as you suggest above.

But I've also wore it to the gym, or out for a run. As mentioned its sweat resistant. Or if i was popping up to the shop i might throw it on. In this case its just a piece of Casual clothing. It might not be suited to your taste, Which is fine. But i think that judging me for wearing it is silly. As for the other poster, who suggested I'm insecure, I assure you that your assumption is ridiculous. I'd never judge somebody on their clothing, i think its sorta prejudiced.

To continue to dig my wardrobe-racism hole, while I don't think it's weird for you to don your jersey to watch a match on TV or in the pub (because that's donning the colours to support the team, which is what those jerseys are for, and I'd even accept you wearing your item of sports apparel while going to the gym or going running, given that it's an item of sports apparel - if I see you and your mates out wearing matching sporting jerseys and you're not either watching a sport or exercising, then yes, I think you look like a big statement-making bunch of muppets.

If I see a bunch of Man-U shirt wearing englishmen while I'm in Amsterdam, I assume it's a stag party; if I see a bunch of GAA-wearing Irishmen in St Kilda, I assume it's a bunch of drunken backpackers.

If they're GAA-wearing St Kilda-going rebel singers, it makes me cringe and yes, I do assume they're a bunch of morons.

jank

*Double post*

jank

Xavi6 wrote: »

The snobbery towards people who wear jerseys as a casual item of clothing is bloody annoying. I'm no Eire 32 head but I'll wear my Dublin jersey on a Saturday afternoon while out shopping or my Shelbourne jacket when it's pissing down with rain. They're, imo, nice and comfortable.

Granted there are **** who wear it as some sort of uniform but they're also the type who don't see anything but the inside of an Irish bar so aren't all that significant anyway in the grand scheme of things.

Is someone who wears a U2 t-shirt (god forbid) seen in the same light? Of course not.

You have hit your own nail on the head there. **** wear GAA jerseys abroad. U2 are a band so it is apples and oranges.

jank

Zambia wrote: »

On the clothing front we all Judge on clothing.

If we did not judge on clothing why would we bother personnally selecting items to wear.

We expect to be judged on what we wear.

Exactly. I would have the same attitude to someone who wore this..



To the poster who thinks one is prejudiced because of the clothes they wear I say grow up and be a man.

JustinDee

Funny thread and boy, does it go way off on a tangent.

Young Paddies abroad are the same in most western countries. Anyone who doesn't recognise what they do in themselves must have had quite a special childhood.

Zambia

Ellis Dee

jank wrote: »

Exactly. I would have the same attitude to someone who wore this..



To the poster who thinks one is prejudiced because of the clothes they wear I say grow up and be a man.

That's an interesting point you make about that "There is probably no God" T-shirt.

This is the one I'm wearing now. Just out of curiosity, what conclusion about me does it prompt in you?

My own feeling is that people look at T-shirts, but rarely give them a second thought.

Mellor

The Sweeper wrote: »

To continue to dig my wardrobe-racism hole, while I don't think it's weird for you to don your jersey to watch a match on TV or in the pub (because that's donning the colours to support the team, which is what those jerseys are for, and I'd even accept you wearing your item of sports apparel while going to the gym or going running, given that it's an item of sports apparel - if I see you and your mates out wearing matching sporting jerseys and you're not either watching a sport or exercising, then yes, I think you look like a big statement-making bunch of muppets.

If I see a bunch of Man-U shirt wearing englishmen while I'm in Amsterdam, I assume it's a stag party; if I see a bunch of GAA-wearing Irishmen in St Kilda, I assume it's a bunch of drunken backpackers.

If they're GAA-wearing St Kilda-going rebel singers, it makes me cringe and yes, I do assume they're a bunch of morons.

But's that's different. If there's a whole group of people in matching jerseys, without an obvious reason, then they've made a consciences effort to look the same. I agree they look like muppets. but this would apply if they wore matching tops from Ed Hardy. And i don't see how it applies if I'm alone in Coles

Me and a mate both own the same Henley top, i cringe if we both show up wearing it.

The Sweeper

Mellor wrote: »

And i don't see how it applies if I'm alone in Coles

Ah now in fairness, all bets are off if you're alone in Coles. I live in a town where at least 25% of the shoppers in Coles are in their pyjamas and a further 25% are in their bare feet. You'd be positively posh in your Dublin jersey.

Zambia

Ellis Dee wrote: »

That's an interesting point you make about that "There is probably no God" T-shirt.

This is the one I'm wearing now. Just out of curiosity, what conclusion about me does it prompt in you?

My own feeling is that people look at T-shirts, but rarely give them a second thought.

I think you have something against lesbians ? But I dont know why...

Mellor

jank wrote: »

To the poster who thinks one is prejudiced because of the clothes they wear I say grow up and be a man.

LOL i never said i felt prejudiced against. I was talking about how you sound. Bigoted or narrow minded might have been better. I found you statement that only **** wear sports tops rather pathetic.
If you had of said people who wear only sports tops then I'd agree. Its pretty sad. But i find it baffling that I'm labeled a wanker if i throw it on to grab milk and bread in the morning.
I'm not offended or anything. I wear it only a few times a year. I'm not too concerned about your opinion of me on those days.

Ellis Dee

Zambia wrote: »

I think you have something against lesbians ? But I dont know why...

Interesting reply, but I'm curious as to what you exactly mean by it. In fact, I have nothing against lesbians, probably because I have met only a few of them in my life and never had to suffer the pangs of regret that must result when a guy fancies a lesbian, but she is unattainable for him.

BTW, I think the text says: "Eat a beaver - save a tree". Isn't that something that also a heterosexual male could conceivably do?:);)

Munster_Gal

jank wrote: »

Wearing GAA and rugby jerseys abroad? To me it is just a sign of insecurity. The only times it would be acceptable is Paddys day or when going to an actual match with Ireland in it! Otherwise what are trying to prove?

I wear my Munster jersey quite a lot at home in Ireland... I'm a proud Munster supporter! Equally I wear my Ireland Rugby shirt.
So..... if this is the way I dress regularly at home, and I feel comfortable in this attire, why is it so suddenly unacceptable for me to dress like this in another country?

moomooman

I agree with the article.

I was shocked travelling around Sydney on the lovely sunny evenings that every patch of green space wasnt decorated with a cider party, or a gang of youths screaming abuse at passersby, as is normal for my area.

Australian society, and the Police do not tolerate (ignore?) lawlessness the way Irish society and the Gardai do.

Zambia

Munster_Gal wrote: »

I wear my Munster jersey quite a lot at home in Ireland... I'm a proud Munster supporter! Equally I wear my Ireland Rugby shirt.
So..... if this is the way I dress regularly at home, and I feel comfortable in this attire, why is it so suddenly unacceptable for me to dress like this in another country?

When you get to Melbourne you wear that Jersey whenever you like Munster Girl.

jank

Ellis Dee wrote: »

That's an interesting point you make about that "There is probably no God" T-shirt.

This is the one I'm wearing now. Just out of curiosity, what conclusion about me does it prompt in you?

My own feeling is that people look at T-shirts, but rarely give them a second thought.

Well as it is Russian I have no idea what it says but the Anti-Beaver sign is either some witty thing about vaginas or a statement about Beaver hunting.

Why wear such a t-shirt if one is not going to look at it again!?

One may look at it and think "liberal greenpeace hippy douchbag", someone else may think "Fair play dude!"
All depends on your outlook on the world of course.

Edit: didnt see the post above.

Zambia

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Interesting reply, but I'm curious as to what you exactly mean by it. In fact, I have nothing against lesbians, probably because I have met only a few of them in my life and never had to suffer the pangs of regret that must result when a guy fancies a lesbian, but she is unattainable for him.

BTW, I think the text says: "Eat a beaver - save a tree". Isn't that something that also a heterosexual male could conceivably do?:);)

I just see the no beavers sign.

jank

Mellor wrote: »

LOL i never said i felt prejudiced against. I was talking about how you sound. Bigoted or narrow minded might have been better. I found you statement that only **** wear sports tops rather pathetic.
If you had of said people who wear only sports tops then I'd agree. Its pretty sad. But i find it baffling that I'm labeled a wanker if i throw it on to grab milk and bread in the morning.
I'm not offended or anything. I wear it only a few times a year. I'm not too concerned about your opinion of me on those days.

So your conclusion is that I am a bigot because I dont like people wearing GAA jerseys abroad as if its some statement about their irishness! Wow, and you call me narrow minded? lol

R P McMurphy

Why are people so preoccupied with what someone else is wearing? you are all gonna grow up to be curtain twitchers

Ellis Dee

Zambia wrote: »

I just see the no beavers sign.

It was the same with me until I spent a long time translating it. My wife bought it in Russia and the salesperson told her it was something to do with beavers destroying the forests there. Full marks for salesmanship!:)

BTW, I just saw a young man wearing a Lawndsowne rugby shirt here in the centre of Tallinn. He was behaving impeccably and had two really fine-looking women with him - Irish I think.;)

Ellis Dee

To get away from T-shirts, one thing that never registered with me until fairly recently - because I spend as little time as possible in Dublin - is the number of women who go shopping in their pyjamas. It was only when I was visiting my daughter in Dublin and she commented disgustedly on it, that I began to notice it. Now I see it's spread to Tullamore, Portlaoise and places like that. I still don't get worked up about it, although I find it singularly unappealing, but my daughter and wife - both not Irish - think it is the height of slobbery.:)