How would you want to be "knocked back"?

cocoa

Kimia wrote: »

What about when you don't know if someone is chatting you up or not, you are then damned if you do and damned if you don't. Let's consider both positions:

a) a nice young man (but not my type) starts talking to me in a bar, I talk back and then after a while I say 'I'm sorry but I'm not interested'. He then says 'Jaysus get over yourself'

or

b) a nice young man (but not my type) starts talking to me in a bar, I talk back and say nothing until he asks me out. I say 'I'm sorry but I'm not interested'. He then says 'Jaysus why did you lead me on so?'

I've had both those happen to me. What is the answer!! When specifically do you say no without causing offence? I think the best answer I've heard so far is to casually drop a boyfriend into the conversation but I've done that too and been slagged for being 'too obvious' about it.

Simple answer : these young men really ain't so nice As long as you're polite (a simple 'sorry but I'm not interested' seems reasonable to me), overreacting like that is basically being a prick to shield his ego. These guys are part of the problem, not your responses...

If you want to look at it in another, slightly more benevolent way, this guy has just had a knock to his confidence, no matter how you put it, finding out someone you plucked up the courage to approach has no interest can be difficult, and you can help with this. How? By being the villain of course! If you become the villain, the mean nasty woman who takes obscene pleasure in knocking back 'nice guys' like him.

Personally, I'd lean toward the first paragraph's point of view...

Scanlas The 2nd

Kimia wrote: »

What about when you don't know if someone is chatting you up or not, you are then damned if you do and damned if you don't. Let's consider both positions:

a) a nice young man (but not my type) starts talking to me in a bar, I talk back and then after a while I say 'I'm sorry but I'm not interested'. He then says 'Jaysus get over yourself'

or

b) a nice young man (but not my type) starts talking to me in a bar, I talk back and say nothing until he asks me out. I say 'I'm sorry but I'm not interested'. He then says 'Jaysus why did you lead me on so?'

I've had both those happen to me. What is the answer!! When specifically do you say no without causing offence? I think the best answer I've heard so far is to casually drop a boyfriend into the conversation but I've done that too and been slagged for being 'too obvious' about it.

I think you should stop caring what people think, you are stressing over strangers perceptions of you. It's a waste of your time and energy.

You could go down the honest route and say a summarized version of what you said above.

Say something like " I'm not sure if you're chatting me up or not, if you are I'm not interested. We can keep chatting if you want though" or if you don't want to talk to him say bye and walk off.

Either way some people just don't take rejection well no matter what so don't stress over it, it's their problem not yours.

cantdecide

Maguined wrote: »

....If you are a genuinely nice guy and you approach a woman in a friendly and polite manner and she tells you to "go fcuk yourself!" your rights have not been violated....

cocoa wrote: »

Simple answer : these young men really ain't so nice As long as you're polite (a simple 'sorry but I'm not interested' seems reasonable to me), overreacting like that is basically being a prick to shield his ego. These guys are part of the problem, not your responses...

If you want to look at it in another, slightly more benevolent way, this guy has just had a knock to his confidence, no matter how you put it, finding out someone you plucked up the courage to approach has no interest can be difficult, and you can help with this. How? By being the villain of course! If you become the villain, the mean nasty women who takes obscene pleasure in knocking back 'nice guys' like him.

Personally, I'd lean toward the first paragraph's point of view...

You're rights are not the point of the thread though. The point is that the particular dating scene we have in this country is difficult and frought with danger of heartbreak and disrespect.

I do agree that the dating scene here is far from evolved. Protecting yourself, no matter where you stand is important. I think attack as a form of defense is cynical and a big step backwards in all cases.

Maguined

cocoa wrote: »

Simple answer : these young men really ain't so nice As long as you're polite (a simple 'sorry but I'm not interested' seems reasonable to me), overreacting like that is basically being a prick to shield his ego. These guys are part of the problem, not your responses...

If you want to look at it in another, slightly more benevolent way, this guy has just had a knock to his confidence, no matter how you put it, finding out someone you plucked up the courage to approach has no interest can be difficult, and you can help with this. How? By being the villain of course! If you become the villain, the mean nasty women who takes obscene pleasure in knocking back 'nice guys' like him.

Personally, I'd lean toward the first paragraph's point of view...

Agree totally with cocoa, a genuine nice guy gets told "I'm sorry but I'm not interested" and they either accept it and respond politely and move on as their intention for the night is to look for someone interested, or else they respond politely asking is it okay if they continue chatting as they are not interesting in trying to hook up but merely chat away.

Neither of the previous two examples were polite responses so I would not classify either guy as a genuinely nice guy.

As long as a woman (or man) politely tells someone they are not interested then they cannot be held responsible for the other persons reactions, they have done nothing wrong and it shows immaturity on the man's (or woman's) behalf if they cannot accept a polite response and have to respond with nasty comments.

Maguined

cantdecide wrote: »

You're rights are not the point of the thread though. The point is that the particular dating scene we have in this country is difficult and frought with danger of heartbreak and disrespect.

I do agree that the dating scene here is far from evolved. Protecting yourself, no matter where you stand is important. I think attack as a form of defense is cynical and a big step backwards in all cases.

People are posting saying getting rejected is a horrible thing and that the women that do it are being unfair, the point is there is no fairness. Getting rejected is not a big deal and warrants no more than 3 seconds of your life to laugh it off and walk away but it is being built up into a big deal and complaints that women should have to approach guys more often which is nonsense.

If I approach a woman in a pub/club and she rejects me rudely there is no heartbreak, I don't even know the girl, there is disrespect sure, but you get that everywhere in life, a woman stood on my foot as she skipped past me in the queue to get onto the bus ahead of me this morning, that was disrespectful and rude but its not a big deal, and it is not worthy of lamenting over any more than if a woman rejects you in bar.

It's simply not a big deal.

cantdecide

Personally, I'm VERY thick-skinned. Call me an idealist but my point is that it's a shame that I have to be so.

As a t-totaller, I suppose I don't 'amend' my behaviour in pub/ club environments. In the 'real world', I'll try to chat and strike up with conversation with people. I like chatting with people.

I was in a situation where I began chatting with a 'nice' girl recently in a pub. I didn't approach her, she was just kind of there and I said hello. She was a little rude and dismissive and I got over it and moved on. She turned out to my housemate's best mate from college. Poor her, she was embarassed and I wasn't.

Basics, kids! Always be mannerly and you'll never be too far off the mark.

Maguined

cantdecide wrote: »

Personally, I'm VERY thick-skinned. Call me an idealist but my point is that it's a shame that I have to be so.

As a t-totaller, I suppose I don't 'amend' my behaviour in pub/ club environments. In the 'real world', I'll try to chat and strike up with conversation with people. I like chatting with people.

I was in a situation where I began chatting with a 'nice' girl recently in a pub. I didn't approach her, she was just kind of there and I said hello. She was a little rude and dismissive and I got over it and moved on. She turned out to my housemate's best mate from college. Poor her, she was embarassed and I wasn't.

Basics, kids! Always be mannerly and you'll never be too far off the mark.

I agree it's a shame not everyone is a nice as they could be in the world, but it really comes down to the maturity of people dealing with not nice people.

You acted maturely, even if you just said hello to her, this is still technically approaching her even if only for a chat, she acted dismissive and rude but you got over it and moved on which was the mature thing to do. It's the people that don't get over it that are immature, they either last out with a nasty comment back, or some just walk away but let it gnaw at them all night and some let it affect their chances of approaching anyone else that night. All of which shows they are not maturely dealing with a situation they should be able to handle.

If a waiter is rude to you in a restaurant you might not want to go back to that restaurant but you don't let it stop you from going to any other restaurant!

Elle Collins

milli milli wrote: »

You directly responded to my question by saying "There's no onus on me to chat to men I don't know."

That's right. There isn't.

milli milli wrote: »

You say you will be polite if he's polite but you first said there was no onus on you to chat to men you don't know. It's either one thing or the other?

It's both. It is perfectly possible to be polite without being drawn into a protracted conversation you know!

Scanlas The 2nd

milli milli wrote: »

You directly responded to my question by saying "There's no onus on me to chat to men I don't know."
You say you will be polite if he's polite but you first said there was no onus on you to chat to men you don't know. It's either one thing or the other?

The whole point of manners and politeness is for mutual benefit of the group. If manners allow you to force your way into a conversation with someone who doesn't want to talk to you it's not mutually beneficial. One person must suffer to allow another a conversation. So refusing to enter into a conversation does not make you impolite.

cantdecide

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

...So refusing to enter into a conversation does not make you impolite...

Politeness is gently exiting a conversation you do not wish to participate in, IMO.

Scanlas The 2nd

cantdecide wrote: »

Politeness is gently exiting a conversation you do not wish to participate in, IMO.

Agreed. Telling someone to F%^k off would be impolite, refusing to enter a conversation in a respectful manner is polite.

DeVore

One of the main reasons I dont date is the incredibly childish and toecurlingly embarrassing approach most adults, male and female, take to dating. Its like being back at school.

DeV.

TouchingVirus

DeVore wrote: »

One of the main reasons I dont date is the incredibly childish and toecurlingly embarrassing approach most adults, male and female, take to dating. Its like being back at school.

DeV.

Would you care to elaborate on that DeV, not sure I get what you're at. Also don't get the alternative to dating, maybe I'm just having an off day.

PK2008

If you take a look at any of the threads about approaching the opposite sex you'll see most women will say they wont approach men but also encourage men to approach women.

It puts men in a tricky position because they know its really up to them to take that chance- no risk no reward. Its not right or wrong its just the way it is.

Regardless of whatever way you get shot down at least you gave it a shot- life is short, brush it off and move on

Eve_Dublin

Just a thought and speaking for myself...I've approached men in the past for definite and I've always found it easy to do in Ireland or at least in the pubs I frequented when I lived there but perhaps there's a lack of women approaching men because women aren't attracted just to looks as men at the initial stage. Speaking from a personal opinion, I'd never target the good-looking guy standing at the bar, for example. I´d look at him but not much more. I suppose it takes a little bit more to get our attention at the initial stages. Women have to LOOK physically attractive at that stage but men need a bit more. Perhaps a man doing the approaching and showing a little bit of his personality is what draws our attention initially. It shows he´s confident and depending on what he says, that he has some personality. Men would be more inclined to go up and talk to the good-looking girl at the bar because that´s what does it for you at that stage. This is all backed up by science as we know. I just don´t think we see each other the same way in a bar setting. I´d be more inclined to talk to the guy who was carrying a guitar (I predictably love musicians) or making his friends laugh or something...in fact that´s the only kind of men I´d go for. Men standing around showing nothing of themselves or giving no clue about what their like more than likely won´t get any attention from the ladies. It´s worth thinking about...

Logical Fallacy

DeVore wrote: »

One of the main reasons I dont date is the incredibly childish and toecurlingly embarrassing approach most adults, male and female, take to dating. Its like being back at school.

DeV.

Plus, you ugly.

cantdecide

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

...I´d be more inclined to talk to the guy who was carrying a guitar or making his friends laugh or something...Men standing around showing nothing of themselves or giving no clue about what their like more than likely won´t get any attention from the ladies...

Peacocking, you mean!! So those of us who might be just quietly excellent are screwed!

Malari

cantdecide wrote: »

Peacocking, you mean!! So those of us who might be just quietly excellent are screwed!

Only screwed if you go for girls like Eve Dublin I would think.

Any guys I have approached in the past was more likely to be that I caught his eye when something subtle or funny happened. Example: Girl telling story in a pub with big elaborate movements of her arms, not realising someone was trying to pass behind her. I was silently amused at this and noticed a guy on the other side of the room smirking too and not really talking to his friends. That's the guy I'd be interested in talking to.

cantdecide

Well, my dear, I was that guy... the guy trying to get past, that is Her story wasn't as much good as long.

Malari

cantdecide wrote: »

Well, my dear, I was that guy... the guy trying to get past, that is Her story wasn't as much good as long.

Were you knocked back? Physically that is

cantdecide

It was a new experience to be knocked back by a girl by way of an elbow in the ribs. I always thought that emotional pain was the worst. I was wrong

Eve_Dublin

cantdecide wrote: »

Peacocking, you mean!! So those of us who might be just quietly excellent are screwed!

Carrying a guitar or having a laugh with your buds can hardly be put down to peacocking! I personally don´t like show-offs but I do like funny men who play instruments. The point I´m making is I don´t just go up and talk to the really, really, REALLY good looking guy at the bar. I probably wouldn´t fancy him. Men are more visually turned on than women. That´s a fact.

This is just my theory anyway...

Eve_Dublin

Malari wrote: »

Any guys I have approached in the past was more likely to be that I caught his eye when something subtle or funny happened. Example: Girl telling story in a pub with big elaborate movements of her arms, not realising someone was trying to pass behind her. I was silently amused at this and noticed a guy on the other side of the room smirking too and not really talking to his friends. That's the guy I'd be interested in talking to.

The guy has given a bit of his personality away (our imagination fills in the rest in fairness). It shows he´s probably laid back and has a sense of humour about a situation that some people might be annoyed by...or probably not. Were more likely to take a gamble because we know SOMETHING. This would attract me as well, even if the guy was nothing much to look at. He´s not peacocking.

Eve_Dublin

cantdecide wrote: »

Peacocking, you mean!! So those of us who might be just quietly excellent are screwed!

You don´t think women who get dressed up to go out at weekends are peacocking? They´d get more attention than me dressed in jeans and a jumper...just being my quietly excellent self. We peacock in different ways and men need to realise what it is that attracts us instead of classing themselves as the quiet, nice guy who every woman ignores.

cantdecide

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

...I do like funny men who play instruments...

You're spoiled for choice

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

You don´t think women who get dressed up to go out at weekends are peacocking? They´d get more attention than me dressed in jeans and a jumper...just being my quietly excellent self. We peacock in different ways and men need to realise what it is that attracts us instead of classing themselves as the quiet, nice guy who every woman ignores.

Of course they're peacocking. Outrageous girls in tiny skirts don't appeal to me, personally and the jeansy girls are usually nowhere to be found.

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

...We peacock in different ways and men need to realise what it is that attracts us instead of classing themselves as the quiet, nice guy who every woman ignores...

The problem is trying to balance who you are with the guy the girls want you to be. To my detriment, I'll never try to misrepresent myself as the life and sould of the party. When everyone wants to dance, I just want to talk :rolleyes:

Raekwon

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Men would be more inclined to go up and talk to the good-looking girl at the bar because that´s what does it for you at that stage.

I think alot of men would be fairly hesitant at approaching a really good-looking girl who was standing alone at a bar because 99% of the time they would be instantly shot down. Of course there are always those guys that enjoy a challenge and would try chatting to them regardless of the consequences but in most cases blokes wouldn't just throw caution to the wind when there is a massive chance they will be totally blown out (unless alcohol was involved of course).

I compare Ireland to other counties alot because I have lived abroad and have been in relationships pretty much exclusively with foreign women since my early twenties. But when I was single, in my late teens and early twenties, I learnt very quickly that approaching women in Ireland was an often daunting and sometimes humiliating experience and not something I really enjoyed. When I moved abroad I still held this belief until I actually approached a few women and was surprised at the positive reactions. It almost felt like I was on the same wavelength as these women, which might sound ridiculous to some people but it was a breath of fresh air to me and it actually changed my whole out-look on dating.

I've been back in Ireland a good while now and in a long term relationship but I can see still the frustration of some of my single mates trying to approach women and I really don't envy them. In all honestly if my relationship ended tomorrow I would seriously consider emigrating. That might sound drastic but I'm at the age now where I would hate to be single in Ireland as it all seems like such hard work with very little reward. I know everybody is different and people have different tastes and opinions but I find that alot of single Irish males around my age group (30) share the same views as me. I even know guys that are in unhappy relationships but are too scared to breakup because they hate the Irish dating scene so much. IMO there is something fundamentally flawed in our society when it comes to interacting with the opposite sex and it really needs to change.

Red Hand

Raekwon wrote: »

I compare Ireland to other counties alot because I have lived abroad and have been in relationships pretty much exclusively with foreign women since my early twenties. But when I was single, in my late teens and early twenties, I learnt very quickly that approaching women in Ireland was an often daunting and sometimes humiliating experience and not something I really enjoyed. When I moved abroad I still held this belief until I actually approached a few women and was surprised at the positive reactions. It almost felt like I was on the same wavelength as these women, which might sound ridiculous to some people but it was a breath of fresh air to me and it actually changed my whole out-look on dating.

You don't think that rather it might have something to do with you being a foreigner in their country, that they find you interesting, that you are have a story to tell? Cause that is the thing I see on boards...lots of males saying that foreign women are more approachable when in fact a foreign fellow over here might say the same of Irish women? Why? Because the foreign fellow over here is exotic, has a story to tell and would be seen as something out of the ordinary.

Tldr: people hear a foreign accent from a stranger and strike up a conversation with them. It's happened to me, but I didn't put it down to people being more approachable or anything.

I've been back in Ireland a good while now and in a long term relationship but I can see still the frustration of some of my single mates trying to approach women and I really don't envy them. In all honestly if my relationship ended tomorrow I would seriously consider emigrating. That might sound drastic but I'm at the age now where I would hate to be single in Ireland as it all seems like such hard work with very little reward.

It does sound drastic. But I guess if people emigrate to find work in their field, then why not a suitable girlfriend.:pac:

I know everybody is different and people have different tastes and opinions but I find that alot of single Irish males around my age group (30) share the same views as me. I even know guys that are in unhappy relationships but are too scared to breakup because they hate the Irish dating scene so much. IMO there is something fundamentally flawed in our society when it comes to interacting with the opposite sex and it really needs to change.

I agree that many people stay in relationships because they are scared of being alone, but I would think that was a universal thing...men, women, foreigners, Irish...

Eve_Dublin

cantdecide wrote: »

You're spoiled for choice







Of course they're peacocking. Outrageous girls in tiny skirts don't appeal to me, personally and the jeansy girls are usually nowhere to be found.



The problem is trying to balance who you are with the guy the girls want you to be. To my detriment, I'll never try to misrepresent myself as the life and sould of the party. When everyone wants to dance, I just want to talk :rolleyes:

I fancy Bill Bailey. Funny and plays guitar and fairly hairy and older than me. My cup of tea.

Eve_Dublin

Raekwon wrote: »

I compare Ireland to other counties alot because I have lived abroad and have been in relationships pretty much exclusively with foreign women since my early twenties. But when I was single, in my late teens and early twenties, I learnt very quickly that approaching women in Ireland was an often daunting and sometimes humiliating experience and not something I really enjoyed. When I moved abroad I still held this belief until I actually approached a few women and was surprised at the positive reactions. It almost felt like I was on the same wavelength as these women, which might sound ridiculous to some people but it was a breath of fresh air to me and it actually changed my whole out-look on dating.

I´m sorry that was your experience. What can I say...I´m a polite and reasonably sound Irish woman who has no problems talking to anyone. I never saw myself as the exception back home.

The one thing I don´t miss here in Spain is everyone being absolutely baloobas. The point in the night when everyone is incomprehensible. I realised fairly early on after my move here to Spain how unattractive in both sexes it is. That much drink suits nobody...if any nationality drank as much as we do, they´d probably react the same way (men acting like drunken pissheads and women being snooty cows). I still miss the banter with randomers though (both men and women). Usually when I go out I´m not necessarily on the pull (I´m 30 too by the way) but when I talk to a guy here, they presume that´s my intention. I think Ireland is the only country where platonic banter takes place, at least out of the countries I´ve lived in and at least in the pubs I went to.