caught speeding on moniva road

aido76

On streetview there are 2 60KM/H signs just after Carnmore Cross heading towards the city. If you drive that way today there is 1 sign on the opposite side of the road and is slighty tilted away from you. The 60KM/H limit is fairly clear traveling from the city side. I think I can see (on street view) 2 speed limit signs at the airport just outside the carpark barriers. I could be wrong. Speed limits should be written on the road every couple of hundred metres especially on lower limit roads and that way you can't but know the limit of a particular road. It's very easy to miss a limit sign post.
Every road in Ireland has various exits, residences and some have schools on them and they don't have lower limits. I don't see why this road should be any different. As Galwayrush has said this is a shooting fish in a barrel exercise. The speed camera is much better served at the Carnmore pitch which is a much more dangerous road and most people do speed along it.

Iwannahurl

Here's one set of signs on the Monivea Road, 50 kph on one side, 60 on the other. I can't find corresponding signs at the Carnmore Cross end.

aido76

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Here's one set of signs on the Monivea Road, 50 kph on one side, 60 on the other. I can't find corresponding signs at the Carnmore Cross end.

If you go to Carnmore cross on street view and look in the direction of the city, you will see 2 60KM/H signs just pass the house on the left.

Also if you go to the entrance to the airport you will see the back of 2 signs just before the barriers. Sorry I'm not able to add links.

Iwannahurl

Thanks. Missed the signs earlier -- was going too fast. In StreetView.

Well, that's clear then. The speed limit is 60 kph on the stretch of the Monivea Road between the two sets of 60 kph signs, and 50 kph around the junctions at either end. I suspect Galway Co Co will tell that is sufficient information. However, I have a lot of sympathy for the view that more signage would be helpful at the very least. Certainly signs are needed on the Galway side shortly after the airport entrance. That would help tourists as well as motorists who don't frequent the area.

While the arguments for more signage have merit, IMO it is pointless (after getting a ticket) to argue that the speed limit is too low. If the speed limit ought to be reviewed then there is a legal/bureaucratic process to be followed. Until that happens and a new limit is imposed, I'm staying at or just below 60 kph along that stretch. I can see no merit in driving faster than the posted limit.

Iwannahurl

aido76 wrote: »

On streetview there are 2 60KM/H signs just after Carnmore Cross heading towards the city. If you drive that way today there is 1 sign on the opposite side of the road and is slighty tilted away from you. The 60KM/H limit is fairly clear traveling from the city side. I think I can see (on street view) 2 speed limit signs at the airport just outside the carpark barriers. I could be wrong. Speed limits should be written on the road every couple of hundred metres especially on lower limit roads and that way you can't but know the limit of a particular road. It's very easy to miss a limit sign post.
Every road in Ireland has various exits, residences and some have schools on them and they don't have lower limits. I don't see why this road should be any different. As Galwayrush has said this is a shooting fish in a barrel exercise. The speed camera is much better served at the Carnmore pitch which is a much more dangerous road and most people do speed along it.

There are DoT guidelines on the use of Normal Signs and Repeater Signs for speed limits. See Table 5.9 in Chapter 5 of the Traffic Signs Manual. Note the reference to the dimensions of the signs also.

Anybody who was nabbed on this stretch of the Monivea Road, and who could potentially make a convincing case that they are not familiar with the area, may find the excerpts below of interest. Emphasis added by me.

5.16.10 Where terminal Speed Limit signs are not at a site with good visibility, consideration should be given to -providing a repeater Speed Limit sign soon after the start of the speed limit for the benefit of those who have not seen the first sign. As it is a repeater sign, its position can be chosen to provide good visibility. In such circumstances this repeater sign should be the same size as the sign at the start. It is especially important to provide such a repeater sign where a lower speed is imposed.

5.16.11 Speed limits often change at road junctions and similar locations where the driver is required to take in a lot of information – traffic signs, road markings, traffic signals, conflicting traffic movements, pedestrians, etc. Even where the recommended visibility to a Speed Limit sign has been provided, drivers may not notice the sign due to other calls on their concentration. Therefore, consideration should be given to providing a repeater Speed Limit sign soon after the start of the speed limit as described above.

5.16.12 In general, the provision of repeater Speed Limit signs at regular intervals is important where a Special Speed Limit of 60, 80 or 100km/h is applied to a road in order to lower the speed limit on that road, or where the speed limit is less than a motorist might normally expect to apply on such a road.

I'm not sure how useful the above info might be in court. My understanding is that the stakes are considerably higher, as I understand the penalty increases if you fight the case and then lose.

aido76

Just past through the Carnmore cross junction and the 2 60KM/H limit signs are up.

That excerpt from the traffic signs manual is quite interesting. Pity councils don't read these manuals and follow there advice!!

Dan_Solo

aido76 wrote: »

Do alot of people hit the brakes just as they are about to pass a speed van even when thay are within the speed limit? You are well intrully caught before this point. I understand people slowing a bit before they get to the van.

Reminds me of the old method the cops used to use at music festivals: pull up in a van beside a big crowd and chase anybody thick enough to start running...:D

cats.life

ive started to go another way into briarhill , going left at cross roads (grealish,s pub) go in the new road at 100km not 120 as some people do. . as the speed limit is 60 at airport and centra ,it takes me the same amount of time to get to my gym.i timed it the first day and i wont be going 60 or 50 km anymore, the motor way is there to use it . i wont be giving anymore cash for doing 81 in 80limit,

Caliden

cats.life wrote: »

ive started to go another way into briarhill , going left at cross roads (grealish,s pub) go in the new road at 100km not 120 as some people do. . as the speed limit is 60 at airport and centra ,it takes me the same amount of time to get to my gym.i timed it the first day and i wont be going 60 or 50 km anymore, the motor way is there to use it . i wont be giving anymore cash for doing 81 in 80limit,

Ive a friend who does similar but I've yet to time it myself.
I'm sure the journey is longer though so more expensive with regards fuel but then again I've a 2 litre car and it isnt at its most fuel efficient going 60/50 kmh.

Also with regards that motorway stretch Ive seen several people pulled up for doing 120 kmh on the stretch between the roundabout exit near oranmore and where it joins up the road towards Galway clinic.
Another easy money location.


Also I dont see the limit being increased at a time when road safety has never been more discussed.
It's far more likely the adjoining roads would have their limits decreased to 50 kmh

Iwannahurl

cats.life wrote: »

ive started to go another way into briarhill , going left at cross roads (grealish,s pub) go in the new road at 100km not 120 as some people do. . as the speed limit is 60 at airport and centra ,it takes me the same amount of time to get to my gym.i timed it the first day and i wont be going 60 or 50 km anymore, the motor way is there to use it . i wont be giving anymore cash for doing 81 in 80limit,

I'm not sure I follow your line of argument there. If it takes the same amount of time, what's the advantage/attraction of going via another route?

cats.life

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'm not sure I follow your line of argument there. If it takes the same amount of time, what's the advantage/attraction of going via another route?

i find it a bit crap going 60 and 50 km,s and fed up with cars up close behind me.so is that ok with you;)

Iwannahurl

cats.life wrote: »

i find it a bit crap going 60 and 50 km,s and fed up with cars up close behind me.so is that ok with you;)

I suspect that's a common reason for some people's dislike of certain speed limits, not to mention their hatred of speed/safety cameras. Tailgating motorists are probably the same, only more so.

Caliden

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I suspect that's a common reason for some people's dislike of certain speed limits, not to mention their hatred of speed/safety cameras. Tailgating motorists are probably the same, only more so.

Not sure if you're driven the road yourself but if you have you would understand the point they're trying to make.

Driving at that speed on that road (I dont mind the 50kmh near the school, but it still feels like 60kmh would still be possible there without affecting safety) you spend more time ensuring you're going 60 than actually looking at the road and it's quite frustrating as the road is wide enough with enough clear visibility to handle a higher speed.

Iwannahurl

Caliden wrote: »

Not sure if you're driven the road yourself but if you have you would understand the point they're trying to make.

Driving at that speed on that road (I dont mind the 50kmh near the school, but it still feels like 60kmh would still be possible there without affecting safety) you spend more time ensuring you're going 60 than actually looking at the road and it's quite frustrating as the road is wide enough with enough clear visibility to handle a higher speed.

1. I have, and I don't.

2. With regard to the speed limit around the school, if I had my way I'd reduce it to 30 kph or even less (with the aid of appropriate traffic calming measures).

The European Transport Safety Council has this to say on the topic of speed and the risk to pedestrians in general:

For pedestrians, 5 per cent of those struck by a vehicle travelling at 20 miles/h (32 km/h) die, whereas at 30 miles/h (48 km/h) 45 per cent die, and at 40 miles/h (64 km/h), 85 per cent die.

Those percentages are probably much higher for child pedestrians. The risk data alone justify the setting of lower speed limits where there are vulnerable road users. It is this kind of information that should influence the setting of speed limits and the implementation of compliance/enforcement measures, not the feelings of motorists.

Caliden

did you have to get that horse specially made?

aido76

Iwannahurl wrote: »

2. With regard to the speed limit around the school, if I had my way I'd reduce it to 30 kph or even less (with the aid of appropriate traffic calming measures).

The European Transport Safety Council has this to say on the topic of speed and the risk to pedestrians in general:

For pedestrians, 5 per cent of those struck by a vehicle travelling at 20 miles/h (32 km/h) die, whereas at 30 miles/h (48 km/h) 45 per cent die, and at 40 miles/h (64 km/h), 85 per cent die.

Those percentages are probably much higher for child pedestrians. The risk data alone justify the setting of lower speed limits where there are vulnerable road users. It is this kind of information that should influence the setting of speed limits and the implementation of compliance/enforcement measures, not the feelings of motorists.

Why should this school be any different to any other school? There are loads of other schools throughout the country that don't have lower speed limits applying to them. You should change this to read ALL schools.

I agree that roads around schools should be set at a lower speed level for the reasons outlined above, but to have it as a blanket limit would be crazy. A special speed limit to an area around a school should only apply at school times possibly at school start and school finish where there is a a lot of traffic and children running around. To have a blanket limit of say 30KM/H around a school on a Saturday or Sunday or during holidays would be just madness.
There are flashing amber lights on aproach to a lot of schools and maybe a special limit of say 30KM/H could apply when these lights are flashing. These lights could be controlled from the school by the Principal. They could be turned on when there is a risk to child safety.

To get back to the speed van side of things, There are a lot of roads around the country where people have died but you won't see a speed van on them because they are back roads or side roads that have very little traffic, the speed limit is too high for these type of roads and there would not be enough people caught to justify having the van in such a location.

The Monivea/airport road is an easy target as the speed limit is set very low. AFAIK one person has gotten killed on this road in the last few years and this was down to driver error and not speed. Don't get me wrong, one person dying is one too many but when the cause was not speed then I don't see the justification for a low speed limit and the speed van to be in this location.

Iwannahurl

I agree that a lower speed (ideally 30 kph or less) should apply around all schools. I am not familiar with measures used in other jurisdictions to impose different speed limits at different times, depending on whether the school is open or not. If you know of any best practice examples from Ireland or other countries, please let me know as I would be genuinely interested in pursuing the idea.

In the meantime, I am not really bothered about having to comply with a low-speed zone in the vicinity of a school.

Do you have any source for the claim that "there are a lot of roads around the country where people have died but you won't see a speed van on them because they are back roads or side roads that have very little traffic"? What are the actual fatality statistics by road type and location?

Regardless of whether it is warranted or not, the speed limit on the Monivea Road is what it is. If it there is a good case to be made for raising the speed limit, then there is a process to be followed to achieve that. Breaking the existing speed limit, and risking a fine, is not the answer.

Meanwhile, I can't see that a 60 kph limit imposes any hardship. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the distance involved is about 4 km. At an average speed of 60 kph that takes about 4 minutes. At 80 kph you save 60 seconds. A life-changing difference?

johnnyk66

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Meanwhile, I can't see that a 60 kph limit imposes any hardship. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the distance involved is about 4 km. At an average speed of 60 kph that takes about 4 minutes. At 80 kph you save 60 seconds. A life-changing difference?

The distance over which the 60km limit applies is approx 2.5km, increasing the limit to 80 would only save about 37 seconds. Not a lot to ask to save a life or serious injury.

996tt

Caliden wrote: »

did you have to get that horse specially made?

Hes had it a while, he trots over and back between the galway and motors forum spreading his gospel according to iwannahurl, which is a affiliated with greenpeace aiming to banish the country of cars

996tt

johnnyk66 wrote: »

The distance over which the 60km limit applies is approx 2.5km, increasing the limit to 80 would only save about 37 seconds. Not a lot to ask to save a life or serious injury.

Apply that then to every 2.5km stretch of road in the county that has a house entrance at the side of the road, sure it'll only take and extra 37seconds per 2.5km.

cats.life

does any one remember what happend down at cregmore school??truck lost control when nissan was way out on road from grange side, truck was not going fast cos it showed up on the tachograph when gardai went to check it.why isnt the camera there then? i see cars flying by while im waiting for my lad to get out from school, its only 50km there .

996tt

cats.life wrote: »

does any one remember what happend down at cregmore school??truck lost control when nissan was way out on road from grange side, truck was not going fast cos it showed up on the tachograph when gardai went to check it.why isnt the camera there then? i see cars flying by while im waiting for my lad to get out from school, its only 50km there .

Its all about the money, they claim different but at the end of the day it is. The road being disucssed here is one of the safest in galway(only death I remember is when a girl was killed at 4am a few years ago but the cause of that death was more complicated that just speeding).

There is very rarely any crashes on the road due the fact that its a very well constructed road that is very wide and straight with very good visibility and the surface is also very good.

biko

Caliden wrote: »

did you have to get that horse specially made?

996tt wrote: »

Hes had it a while, he trots over and back between the galway and motors forum spreading his gospel according to iwannahurl, which is a affiliated with greenpeace aiming to banish the country of cars

Discuss the issue at hand and please don't get personal.

Iwannahurl

Caliden wrote: »

did you have to get that horse specially made?

996tt wrote: »

Hes had it a while, he trots over and back between the galway and motors forum spreading his gospel according to iwannahurl, which is a affiliated with greenpeace aiming to banish the country of cars

In my experience of Boards discussions about speed and related matters, metaphorical references to equine stature tend to start appearing when speed doubters and speed/safety camera opponents start to run out of anything even vaguely resembling a valid, logical or reasoned argument against legal measures aimed at controlling speed. Ultimately the objectors' stance seems to be based on little more than an unwillingness to be made drive slower than they'd like to.

996tt wrote: »

Apply that then to every 2.5km stretch of road in the county that has a house entrance at the side of the road, sure it'll only take and extra 37seconds per 2.5km.

Why?

cats.life wrote: »

does any one remember what happend down at cregmore school??truck lost control when nissan was way out on road from grange side, truck was not going fast cos it showed up on the tachograph when gardai went to check it.why isnt the camera there then? i see cars flying by while im waiting for my lad to get out from school, its only 50km there .

If the truck had been going faster then the consequences could have been worse.

Speed limits are too high around schools, and enforcement too infrequent and ineffective, in my opinion. That is an argument for more speed control, not less. If you're worried about speeding in the vicinity of your child's school then you should put pressure on the County Council and AGS to do something about it. You could also organise a community effort to raise awareness about the speed problem.

Caliden

cats.life wrote: »

does any one remember what happend down at cregmore school??truck lost control when nissan was way out on road from grange side, truck was not going fast cos it showed up on the tachograph when gardai went to check it.why isnt the camera there then? i see cars flying by while im waiting for my lad to get out from school, its only 50km there .

There used to be signs saying it was 50kmh but they have since disappeared.
If it's 50kmh there then they need proper signage because I regularly drive in and out of galway via the lydacan road/cregmore cross and as far as I know (recalling signs from memory) its 80kmh.

Even the back road outside my house is 80kmh and it isnt wide enough for 2 cars.


In relation to the cregmore school incident, the surrounding area is crazy come finishing time.
Cars park up where they like and block half the road.
Its impeeds driver's visibility when pulling out of that cross and I still cant believe that its allowed to continue.
I wouldve thought the truck crashing would be a wake up call but passed there last week when school was finishing and it was still the same.

Caliden

Iwannahurl wrote: »

In my experience of Boards discussions about speed and related matters, metaphorical references to equine stature tend to start appearing when speed doubters and speed/safety camera opponents start to run out of anything even vaguely resembling a valid, logical or reasoned argument against legal measures aimed at controlling speed. Ultimately the objectors' stance seems to be based on little more than an unwillingness to be made drive slower than they'd like to.

In all seriousness can you rewrite that in something thats more legible to those of us without a thesaurus beside our computer.

apoeiguq3094y

Speed limits are limits, not targets.

If you're on a road that isn't good enough for the stated limit then you shouldn't drive at the speed.

We need to move away from spoon feeding drivers information with a sign for something every 10 feet. Drivers should be able to think and make decisons about road speed and conditions. To match that, we need to concentrate on prosecuting people who drive dangerously - i.e. tailgating or speeding past a school. I think speed cameras would be easier to endure if there was better policing of the roads for other offenses.

Iwannahurl

Caliden wrote: »

In all seriousness can you rewrite that in something thats more legible to those of us without a thesaurus beside our computer.

Twas tongue in cheek. You don't need a thesaurus.

Iwannahurl

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

Speed limits are limits, not targets.

If you're on a road that isn't good enough for the stated limit then you shouldn't drive at the speed.

We need to move away from spoon feeding drivers information with a sign for something every 10 feet. Drivers should be able to think and make decisons about road speed and conditions. To match that, we need to concentrate on prosecuting people who drive dangerously - i.e. tailgating or speeding past a school. I think speed cameras would be easier to endure if there was better policing of the roads for other offenses.

Generally agreed. There must be cues to action though. As for 'enduring' speed cameras, that is a matter of attitude and choice. All drivers are by definition adults, assuming that children are not allowed to drive.

ciotog

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

Speed limits are limits, not targets.

If you're on a road that isn't good enough for the stated limit then you shouldn't drive at the speed.

We need to move away from spoon feeding drivers information with a sign for something every 10 feet. Drivers should be able to think and make decisons about road speed and conditions. To match that, we need to concentrate on prosecuting people who drive dangerously - i.e. tailgating or speeding past a school. I think speed cameras would be easier to endure if there was better policing of the roads for other offenses.

Agree with point on spoon-feeding, I was rather concerned by a previous post where the driver claimed to spend more time looking at speedometer than the road. While I'll assume that's an exaggeration for effect there is probably some truth in there and points to a lack of speed and vehicle awareness.

I'm a committed cyclist and would really, really welcome proper policing for all traffic offences. To shortcut the inevitable whiny cyclists break red lights discussion, traffic includes bicycles. So, I'm all for cyclists who don't obey the rules of the road getting prosecuted for breaking red lights, failing to stop or yield where mandated, cycling on the pavement, not having lights and other offences covered in the RoTR.