Where would Celtic finish in the EPL?

Melion

ColeTrain wrote: »

Celtic won the European cup In the heat of Lisbon, '67. You already knew that though.

So they havent won the Champions League?

Melion

Mitch Connor wrote: »

yeah, right. I'm sure there isn't a single post on here from you with a 5 times, or 18-5 comment.

Your comment over Celtic winning the EC/CL was churlish imo

Have a look, give yourself something to do instead of trying to pick an argument. Do Forest fans go on about winning the Champions League twice? What about Villa fans?

Mitch Connor

14th - 17th( Relegation Survivors)

Melion wrote: »

Do Forest fans go on about winning the Champions League twice? What about Villa fans?

They go on about winning the EC, and if they won the CL it would be added to the EC victory, the same way Livrpool (as a club, and the fans) have added the CL victory to the the EC victories, the same way Uefa did just that too, the same way Man United add the Division 1 titles one before the premiership to the premiership titles won since. the competitions are considered to be the same, so you knew damn well what the poster was talking about.

ColeTrain

14th - 17th( Relegation Survivors)

Melion wrote: »

So they havent won the Champions League?

You can't come to your own conclusion after I just told you they won the European cup?

You really are acting like a simpleton.

Melion

Mitch Connor wrote: »

They go on about winning the EC, and if they won the CL it would be added to the EC victory, the same way Livrpool (as a club, and the fans) have added the CL victory to the the EC victories, the same way Uefa did just that too

They were European champions, they didnt win the Champions League. You know just as well as i do, they are not the same competition. For a start, there was no league format back then.

Melion

ColeTrain wrote: »

You can't come to your own conclusion after I just told you they won the European cup?

You really are acting like a simpleton.

Im sorry but you're the one who has said you're club won a competition that they have never won.

ColeTrain

14th - 17th( Relegation Survivors)

Melion wrote: »

They were European champions, they didnt win the Champions League. You know just as well as i do, they are not the same competition. For a start, there was no league format back then.

Nope there was no 6 game cushion for the big teams.

There wasn't any fourth placed teams either.

Back then you had the play the top teams in a two leg knockout.

Mitch Connor

14th - 17th( Relegation Survivors)

Melion wrote: »

They were European champions, they didnt win the Champions League. You know just as well as i do, they are not the same competition. For a start, there was no league format back then.

Liverpool, the club, treat them as the same competition. (5 stars on the crest)
Liverpool fans, for the most part, treat them as the same competition. (5 times, 5 finger salute, 18-5)
Uefa treat them as the same competition. (giving Liverpool the trophy on the back of winning it 5 times - recognising Real Madrid as most succesful side with 9 victories etc)

There was a rebranding, and a restructuring, it is still considered to be the same competition - in the same way there is only considered to be one world cup compeition, despite the structure of it changing quite dramatically over time. The new 24 team European Champions Cup won't be considered to be a new competition, despite being structurally different. The Premier League is considered to be the same competition as Division 1 was; despite its restructuring and rebranding.

The EC and the CL are considered to be the same competition, and well you know that. You were just going for some cheap point scoring, and well you know that too.

Melion

ColeTrain wrote: »

Nope there was no 6 game cushion for the big teams.

There wasn't any fourth placed teams either.

Back then you had the play the top teams in a two leg knockout.

Much harder competition to win back then too

Dub13

18th - 20th ( Relagated)

Seaneh wrote: »

Only Utd would have a bigger match day gate, or is Arsenals new stadium bigger than 60,832 seats?
Just googled the above and according to Wikipedia, the emirates holds 60,355.

Thats a very simplistic way to look at it, match day revenue is not just about the amount of fans you pack into the ground you can charge a lot more for tickets and other stuff in London.

Melion

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Liverpool, the club, treat them as the same competition. (5 stars on the crest)
Liverpool fans, for the most part, treat them as the same competition. (5 times, 5 finger salute, 18-5)
Uefa treat them as the same competition. (giving Liverpool the trophy on the back of winning it 5 times - recognising Real Madrid as most succesful side with 9 victories etc)

The EC and the CL are considered to be the same competition, and well you know that. You were just going for some cheap point scoring, and well you know that too.

The 5 stars represent being European champions 5 times, not winning the Champions League 5 times.

eZe^

Melion wrote: »

The 5 stars represent being European champions 5 times, not winning the Champions League 5 times.

So in essence, the entire argument is due to pedantics? :rolleyes:

Mitch Connor

14th - 17th( Relegation Survivors)

Melion wrote: »

Much harder competition to win back then too

Easier to win, harder to qualify for. The amount of rubbish sides in it ment teams rarely played anyone good til the semi-final.

Far harder to qualify for it, as only the champs got in, but due to that the amount (and quality) of the sides on show was poorer imo.

Again, you can use the fact that it was harder to qualify for to mean it is then ultimately harder to win and thus means more (and I would see your point) but then you would have to accept that United winning the World Clup Cup thing in Jan 09 as the biggest achievement it is possible for a side to win - as you have to win the Champions League to qualify for it, but the standard of the opposition was fairly weak so it was an easy trophy to win and not one given much credit (understandably given the quality of the teams involved, imo).

Mitch Connor

14th - 17th( Relegation Survivors)

Melion wrote: »

The 5 stars represent being European champions 5 times, not winning the Champions League 5 times.

Ar the stars different colours to signify that they represent different trophies.

EC and CL are the same competition, the winner is/was the champion of europe. simple as that, and you know that.

everdead.ie

10-14th (Mid Table safety)

Dub13 wrote: »

Thats a very simplistic way to look at it, match day revenue is not just about the amount of fans you pack into the ground you can charge a lot more for tickets and other stuff in London.

Ya don't Arsenal double there match day take on the corporate side of things crazy money, and Don't Ipswich(maybe it was QPR?) have the fourth most expensive season ticket in the country?

Melion

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Easier to win, harder to qualify for. The amount of rubbish sides in it ment teams rarely played anyone good til the semi-final.

Far harder to qualify for it, as only the champs got in, but due to that the amount (and quality) of the sides on show was poorer imo.

Teams nowadays can afford to lose 2 games and draw 1 and still qualify for the last 16. Thats my problem with the competition. One poor performance back then, or a poor refereeing decision and you were in trouble.

Dub13

18th - 20th ( Relagated)

Lads this thread is about Celtic in the PL not how hard it is/is not to win the Champions League.We have done that before and if you want to carry that on I suggest you use this thread What is/was harder to win the Old European Cup or the Champions League is see the poll is very close.

Dub13

18th - 20th ( Relagated)

everdead.ie wrote: »

Ya don't Arsenal double there match day take on the corporate side of things crazy money, and Don't Ipswich(maybe it was QPR?) have the fourth most expensive season ticket in the country?

I think its QPR,I know alot of away fans are boycotting because the tickets are so expensive.I would have a guess and say the Arsenal season ticket is twice what you would pay for one in Celtic.

Mitch Connor

14th - 17th( Relegation Survivors)

Melion wrote: »

Teams nowadays can afford to lose 2 games and draw 1 and still qualify for the last 16. Thats my problem with the competition. One poor performance back then, or a poor refereeing decision and you were in trouble.

True, but back in the day (for example) teams this season would only have had to worry about Barcelona from Spain - while it is arguable that Real Madrid are the second best side in the world at the moment. the fact that both Real and Barca (and other sides, and similar situations in other leagues) are in the competition makes it harder to win it - as there are more credible threats to everyone

Just look at the 67 EC - LINFIELD were in the quarters!

Sure, one bad performance could see you out before the quaters back then, but you'd have to have been unlucky to get a side of real quality in the first or second round. I would say the standard of competition from the first knock out round now (equivilent of second round back in the day in terms of number of rounds from the final) is far higher - so it is harder to get to the quarters now than it was, imo.

gosplan

Melion wrote: »

Much harder competition to win back then too

I think it's harder nowadays to be honest.


And especially harder for smaller teams like Celtic. It's basically stacked now so one of the European powerhouses has the best chance of winning.

Melion

gosplan wrote: »

I think it's harder nowadays to be honest.


And especially harder for smaller teams like Celtic. It's basically stacked now so one of the European powerhouses has the best chance of winning.

Welcome to the argument

OhNoYouDidn't

10-14th (Mid Table safety)

gosplan wrote: »

I think it's harder nowadays to be honest.


And especially harder for smaller teams like Celtic. It's basically stacked now so one of the European powerhouses has the best chance of winning.

Exactly. Which is why only two English clubs have won it in the last 30 years

v3ttel

14th - 17th( Relegation Survivors)

At the moment, mid - lower table. When they get the benefits of the TV revenue, etc, given they already have the fanbase and the stadium, they could be pushing for the European spots pretty quickly.

This is a club that not so long ago were taking on some of the best teams in Europe at Celtic Park and beating them, on a shoe-string budget. The potential is there.

seafood dunleavy

10-14th (Mid Table safety)

Melion wrote: »

Really? Celtic won the Champions League? When?

Jesus I thought it was only United fans that claimed that a competition with a different name is entirely different.

PHB

18th - 20th ( Relagated)

I think they'd finish in the bottom half, probably relegation survivors in the first season. However over time, due to their attendances, I think they'd move to become Europe challengers. Then it would depend on management.

bamboozling

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Exactly. Which is why only two English clubs have won it in the last 30 years

3 English clubs have won it in the last 30 years, Liverpool, Manchester United and Aston Villa.

KaiserGunner

18th - 20th ( Relagated)

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Exactly. Which is why only two English clubs have won it in the last 30 years

Only two spanish clubs have won it in the last 30 years. So whats your point?

Peyton Manning

14th - 17th( Relegation Survivors)

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Exactly. Which is why only two English clubs have won it in the last 30 years

Ah you're back.

Care to address this post please?

Dempsey

5th -10th (Europa League/Upper mid Table)

Celtic would win the EPL but EPL clubs would never vote them into their league pyramid because they are afraid of being pushed down the ladder.

Paully D

18th - 20th ( Relagated)

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Celtic would scare united,arsenal and the kellski.the top 4 pact would be interrupted.The Epl is ****e anyway.Who wants to watch bolton v wolves for example. I cant emphasise enough how overrated that league is.Rooney shinned an overhead kick against city for example.Suddenly, the fact that he hadnt scored in 2 centuries beforehand didnt matter.He was now a better player than maradona ever was, again.Keep that EPL shoite away from me. Im happy following Celtic.A proper club with a proper support.

Well, in contrast to Hamilton V St Mirren etc it's a cracking game. There's what, probably 2 decent sets of fixtures in the SPL (Glasgow and Edinburgh derbies) and the fact the play each other 867 times a season takes away from it too.

For a club who's fans hate the Premier League so much, why the big clamour to join it?

major bill

Dempsey wrote: »

Celtic would win the EPL but EPL clubs would never vote them into their league pyramid because they are afraid of being pushed down the ladder.

bit over the top dont ye think??


as stated numberous times the current squad would struggle in the epl but given a few years with the television money and sponsorship money they would be a top 6/7 side. until some big arab oil company came in they wouldnt knock man united,arsenal,chelsea,spurs,city or even liverpool off the top part of the table.

SPL as a whole is still a ''poor'' standard league compared to other leagues in europe!!.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

18th - 20th ( Relagated)

bamboozling wrote: »

3 English clubs have won it in the last 30 years, Liverpool, Manchester United and Aston Villa.

And yeh could almost add a fourth in Nottingham Forest.


I think we should start giving infractions for acting the gobshíte. Discretion in the people's hands.

Dempsey

5th -10th (Europa League/Upper mid Table)

major bill wrote: »

bit over the top dont ye think??


as stated numberous times the current squad would struggle in the epl but given a few years with the television money and sponsorship money they would be a top 6/7 side. until some big arab oil company came in they wouldnt knock man united,arsenal,chelsea,spurs,city or even liverpool off the top part of the table.

SPL as a whole is still a ''poor'' standard league compared to other leagues in europe!!.

Completely, but alot of people are spouting ignorant shíte in this thread so I decided to join in.

Last season, Celtic had a left back that couldnt make it at Bayern Munich, he got loaned to Celtic and he couldnt make the grade in the SPL either. In fact, most people that watched him thought he was rubbish for Celtic and he cost us points. Yet that player went to the 2010 World Cup and played in a World Cup Final. SPL isnt a top 5 league but its alot better than most leagues in Europe.

PARKHEAD67

10-14th (Mid Table safety)

Paully D wrote: »

Well, in contrast to Hamilton V St Mirren etc it's a cracking game. There's what, probably 2 decent sets of fixtures in the SPL (Glasgow and Edinburgh derbies) and the fact the play each other 867 times a season takes away from it too.

For a club who's fans hate the Premier League so much, why the big clamour to join it?

Because of the absolutely ridiculous money that sky pumps into it.Before sky destroyed modern day football the likes of dundee united, Hearts,Hibs Aberdeen(who won a European trophy in the 80's) would have been a match for any top team in England.Nowadays, you have a situation where the likes of Robbie Savage is a multi-millionaire.Jesus wept.

partyndbs

Helix wrote: »

initially theyd be in the relegation battle, but so would any team coming straight in from another country

yeah could just imagine barca struggling for points down at the foot of the table

BERBA

18th - 20th ( Relagated)

Dempsey wrote: »

SPL isnt a top 5 league but its alot better than most leagues in Europe.

SPL is on a par with the league of ireland imo

partyndbs

nah not anymore, 4 years ago they were so close in terms of quality. spl is good relative to the size of the country

Dempsey

5th -10th (Europa League/Upper mid Table)

BERBA wrote: »

SPL is on a par with the league of ireland imo

Far more international footballer ply their trade in the SPL than the LOI, also the average wage for footballers is considerably higher, average attendances to matches is considerably higher, SPL clubs go further in European competitions.

Your opinion is wrong and well wrong at that but it wouldnt be the first time either.

OhNoYouDidn't

10-14th (Mid Table safety)

Paully D wrote: »

For a club who's fans hate the Premier League so much, why the big clamour to join it?

Celtic fans don't 'hate' the EPL. They just have their heads wrecked by some of the 'fans' of that leage and their patronising tone. I won't speak for the other mob, but I doubt that they are any different. As are the LoI fans and fans of continental football on here. We can't all be wrong.

As for a clamour, not from the fans there isn't. Desmond has spoken about it and was definitly pulling strings in the EPL 1 & 2 idea of a couple of years back. Makes sense from his POV, but most fans are very edgy about folding 140 years of tradition for a few quid, especially since Scottish clubs have been cyclically stronger than English ones in the recent past.

partyndbs

yeah but bohs 2 years ago were as good as any team outside old firm.

OhNoYouDidn't

10-14th (Mid Table safety)

BERBA wrote: »

SPL is on a par with the league of ireland imo

Top LoI clubs would compete in the SPL, that is true.

But top SPL clubs would compete in the EPL.

So using YOUR logic, the LoI is on a Par with the EPL. And thats clearly daft.

major bill

Dempsey wrote: »

Far more international footballer ply their trade in the SPL than the LOI, also the average wage for footballers is considerably higher, average attendances to matches is considerably higher, SPL clubs go further in European competitions.

Your opinion is wrong and well wrong at that but it wouldnt be the first time either.

im not going to argue about LOI v SPL but only celtic and rangers do well in europe bar the odd aberdeen run.if you wanna pick results in europe scottish teams are relatively poor for the standard you think they are at.

OhNoYouDidn't

10-14th (Mid Table safety)

partyndbs wrote: »

yeah but bohs 2 years ago were as good as any team outside old firm.

As are Rovers of today. But thats not really relevent here. Celtic and Rangers are so far ahead of the rest of the SPL the entire argument is moot. Two LoI clubs don't win 95% of Irish silverwards and get 10 times the rests average crowds.

BERBA

18th - 20th ( Relagated)

Dempsey wrote: »

Your opinion is wrong and well wrong at that but it wouldnt be the first time either.

dont think im wrong , outside of the old firm ,any LOI premier team would give SPL teams a game and thats even when you take in to account whats happened to the LOI over the past 5 years

the SPL is in the bin , same as the LOI , thats just a fact.:rolleyes:

Paully D

18th - 20th ( Relagated)

BERBA wrote: »

SPL is on a par with the league of ireland imo

It's really not. Even if you're against SPL sides joining the Premier League, it's impossible not to admit that The SPL is of a much higher standard than the League of Ireland.

Many League of Ireland players jump across to Scotland at the first opportunity and that says everything.

Dempsey

5th -10th (Europa League/Upper mid Table)

major bill wrote: »

im not going to argue about LOI v SPL but only celtic and rangers do well in europe bar the odd aberdeen run.if you wanna pick results in europe scottish teams are relatively poor for the standard you think they are at.

What standard did I say that the SPL was at??

Aberdeen have more european trophies than Rangers btw

OhNoYouDidn't

10-14th (Mid Table safety)

BERBA wrote: »

dont think im wrong , outside of the old firm ,any LOI premier team would give SPL teams a game and thats even when you take in to account whats happened to the LOI over the past 5 years

And the old firm would give EPL teams a game. So what?

BERBA wrote: »

the SPL is in the bin , same as the LOI , thats just a fact.:rolleyes:

Are you seriously going to try and argue that the EPL is the same standard it was 5 years ago? That the top teams aren't all weaker? Honestly? :eek:

PARKHEAD67

10-14th (Mid Table safety)

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Only two spanish clubs have won it in the last 30 years. So whats your point?

The mighty Arsenal and Chelsea combined have the grand total of zero European Cups.Keep trying though.

stovelid

18th - 20th ( Relagated)

Haven't read the whole thread so I'm sure my point has been made already. I think Celtic would be a lower-half of the EPL team, possibly relegation maerial AS IS but if they stayed in the EPL, their fanbase, gates, and tradition coupled with TV money and the ability to then attract bigger players would see them quickly become a big force.

As for the LOI, the top clubs of the last decade or so years could easily survive in the SPL imo because it's a majorly disjointed and weak league. Saying that we could compete with the old firm though. is ridiculous.

PARKHEAD67

10-14th (Mid Table safety)

partyndbs wrote: »

yeah but bohs 2 years ago were as good as any team outside old firm.

Probably as good as the likes of bolton,wolves and all the other absolute shoite that makes up the bottom half of the EPL too!