Are natural footballers 'born'....?

Fittle

Quick question lads.

Are amazing footballers born that way? Like are they just destined to be amazing and earn millions, or do they learn how to be what they are, from childhood??

Himself LOVES football. Eats, sleeps and drinks it. But he's not great at it.
He's great at Art and Dancing and could possibly be the next Einstein or Michael Jackson. But hates both.


He watches YouTube ronaldo tricks night after night (after homework)..practices the tricks..is improving dramatically at Under 8s DDSL etc.

But he's not a natural.

I'm at a point of wondering should I push him into something that he's really, really good at...or encourage him to improve at a sport that he's not a natural at. Please take this post in the mood it's intended...cheers.[HTML][/HTML]

stumpypeeps

Fittle wrote: »

Quick question lads.

Are amazing footballers born that way? Like are they just destined to be amazing and earn millions, or do they learn how to be what they are, from childhood??

Himself LOVES football. Eats, sleeps and drinks it. But he's not great at it.
He's great at Art and Dancing and could possibly be the next Einstein or Michael Jackson. But hates both.


He watches YouTube ronaldo tricks night after night (after homework)..practices the tricks..is improving dramatically at Under 8s DDSL etc.

But he's not a natural.

I'm at a point of wondering should I push him into something that he's really, really good at...or encourage him to improve at a sport that he's not a natural at. Please take this post in the mood it's intended...cheers.[HTML][/HTML]

http://www.bookpage.com/books-10013170-Bounce

Helix

its no coincidence that kids of famous footballers tend to be pretty decent themselves. its not to do with natural talent, though that helps, instead its about learning the right techniques from an early age

let the kid play what he enjoys. 99.99999999999% of people who play the game never do so at a high level, and if youre only concerned with him doing that, then i think you're likely to ruin his love for the game

flahavaj

Helix wrote: »

its no coincidence that kids of famous footballers tend to be pretty decent themselves. its not to do with natural talent, though that helps, instead its about learning the right techniques from an early age

Are they though? The % of footballers who have sons that make it in the game isn't that high is it?

let the kid play what he enjoys. 99.99999999999% of people who play the game never do so at a high level, and if youre only concerned with him doing that, then i think you're likely to ruin his love for the game

Agree with tis totally You shouldn't be worrying about whether an 8 year old is going to make it fulltime in teh game. If he enjoys it encourage him to keep it up and if you want him to broaden his horizons then encourage him in other fields as well. Its not really a case of either or, he can do his football and other hobbies too. Remember, the percentage of kids that make it as pro footballers is tiny. If kids only played to make it it would stop being fun very soon.

Fromvert

He's only 7/8, kids develop differently. Just let him enjoy playing.

sonic85

this is just my opinion but i reckon great sportspeople are born not made. i think a person can work as hard as they like but if they dont have it they dont have it

edit: i agree with the above posters who said just let him enjoy doing what he loves. kids are under far too much pressure these days its only a game after all

Pinturicchio

I don't think they are.

Kids who are naturally athletic (that's definitely something you're born with) and who play a lot of football while their young will mostly end up being good players IMO.

At Under 8 level I would've thought the basics like ball control, passing, tackling, shooting are much more important than learning to copy Cristiano Ronaldo's tricks.

Helix

flahavaj wrote: »

Are they though? The % of footballers who have sons that make it in the game isn't that high is it?

it is yeh, surprisingly high

im not talking about world class players with world class fathers or anything, just guys who played professionally - they tend to have kids who play professioanlly to

stumpypeeps

Its the age old battle nature or nurture. To my mind, the earlier a child starts and the more he practices the greater his chance of becoming successful.

Look at Tiger Woods for example, started at two and was pushed endlessly by his father to practice, practice and practice some more. Its doubtful he inherited any great natural ability from his father but he was conditioned for success from 2 years of age.

Fittle

Ok, so before this thread continues, I have no intention of ruining his love of the game - which is also a love of mine btw.

He will continue to play football...we will continue to drive 20miles on a sunday morning for ddsl football, and follow all the daddies who know where the pitch is at 9am on a sunday morning (even though they never know where the pitch is:rolleyes:).

This isn't really a question about whether he'll continue with football...because he will. He loves it, and I'll do anything and everything that I can to help him along.

But teachers and coaches have also told me that he could be an amazing singer and that I should pursue that for him. I have visions of him clearing my mortgage as the next justin beiber when he's 14:D

But he hates singing (though he sings all the time!!) and has no interest in it.

I suppose I should encourage the sport he loves over the stuff he's really good at??

I suppose I'm just wondering that if at 9 (almost) football becomes something you're just good at, as opposed to something that you just love, and continue to struggle to get a pass of the ball at every match??

GLaDOS

Bit of both really, whether you have "it" or not though you still need a huge amount of work. Proper coaching is important too I imagine.

Helix

singing is even harder to make it in than football. you dont need to be a good singer to make millions, you do need to put in hard graft and essentially sell your soul and your privacy though

if he hates it, dont push it on him

tallaghtmick

its all in the genes,but practice does help and if someone's family are particulary sporty that would help as in the same way if someone's parents are smart the child would be too.

Fittle

Having said all I just said in my last post, he has improved dramatically in the past 6 months!! He almost scored today...which is as close as he's ever gotten to scoring..they won 2-0.

I'd also like to say that I will never be like Tiger Woods Dad. He loves what he loves and I'll help him with it as much as I can...but the truth is, I wont give up my own life for it. Unless of course, Man U scout him when he's 12;)

Diabhal Beag

You aren't born a great player. You will probably be talented and be a level ahead of most but you still have to work very hard to make it in football.

stumpypeeps

tallaghtmick wrote: »

its all in the genes,but practice does help and if someone's family are particulary sporty that would help as in the same way if someone's parents are smart the child would be too.

I disagree.

Syed bolsters his premise with examples of the early influence of parents and practice on those we exalt as “naturals.” Beethoven, Picasso, the Williams sisters and others were all handed the tools of their trade in toddlerhood, and all put in well above the threshold of 10,000 hours of concerted practice that research shows is the crossover point to “world-class status” in a complex task (a premise also explored in Malcolm Gladwell’s 2008 bestseller Outliers). Syed, the British number-one table tennis champion in 1995 and an Olympic athlete, provides information from studies and statistics, but also speaks from experience. He’s the first to tell you that his impressive athletic attributes were not granted at birth, but were honed over time.

While his book addresses well-known names in sports, chess and the arts, Syed also connects his premise to occupations such as piloting airplanes and fighting fires, in which years on the job develop “the kind of knowledge built through deep experience . . . encoded in the brain and central nervous system” that beginners do not have: the instinct, for example, that tells a seasoned fire chief to pull his men from a building seconds before it collapses in flames.

Paully D

I think the majority are born with natural talent and the rest have enough work ethic, dedication etc to make it.

There's also a good amount of players who have the ability to make it at a decent level but don't get the luck/opportunity needed to get a shot over in The UK or elsewhere.

Fittle

tallaghtmick wrote: »

its all in the genes,but practice does help and if someone's family are particulary sporty that would help as in the same way if someone's parents are smart the child would be too.

Well, family aren't sporty...so he's doomed:(

MrStuffins

Its simple.

Good players are born with the potential. Practice, motivation and hard work make good players great.

It's bull to say that you can choose a random kid and train him to be a great footballer. It's all to do with genetics. Some kids have great genes, they're strong, fast, flexible, they have quick reactions, they can make complicated decisions very quickly. You must be born with the attributes to be a Ronaldinho, a Cristiano Ronaldo, a Messi.

You can be born with these talents but not put the work in and fade off. I have friends who could've been professional footballers but wanted to smoke, drink, eat sh*te, not practice etc.

A kid can practice all he wants, but if he doesn't already possess the genes, he's not gonna be Lionel Messi. But that's not to say practice and hard work can't make him a Kevin Davies or Joey Barton.

Fittle

MrStuffins wrote: »

Its simple.

Good players are born with the potential. Practice, motivation and hard work make good players great.

It's bull to say that you can choose a random kid and train him to be a great footballer. It's all to do with genetics. Some kids have great genes, they're strong, fast, flexible, they have quick reactions, they can make complicated decisions very quickly. You must be born with the attributes to be a Ronaldinho, a Cristiano Ronaldo, a Messi.

You can be born with these talents but not put the work in and fade off. I have friends who could've been professional footballers but wanted to smoke, drink, eat sh*te, not practice etc.

A kid can practice all he wants, but if he doesn't already possess the genes, he's not gonna be Lionel Messi. But that's not to say practice and hard work can't make him a Kevin Davies or Joey Barton.

Ok...it's McDonalds for him so:(

MrStuffins

Fittle wrote: »

Ok...it's McDonalds for him so:(

So your options for your child are professional footballer or McDonalds worker?

If I wasn't so convinced you were joking there, i'd be pretty angry!

EDIT: Also, as I said, hard work could still make him a Davies or Barton, both of these players have represented their country.

Fittle

Ok thanks.

I have a brother who was scouted for Liverpool at 16 (he's now 45) but he got very homesick, and came home. So I guess that technically, it could be in the genes. Although he doesn't see much of that brother.

He is at an age where he completely believes that he will play at Old Trafford when he's older. And he wonders if Trap will pick him for Under 16s or if he might just play for Scotland (my dad was born there). Do you remember that age where you just believe stuff....before it's knocked out of you???

So I go along with it...and we talk about when he lives in Manchester and what I might do for a job, while he's playing football every day (well, he talks about this!!!)...and that we might just live in an apartment because it's just the two of us, and he'll only be training about one hour a week etc etc.

I am under no illusion that as he gets older, this belief will be knocked out of him.....but he's in front of me now, placing his cones around the living room to mark out his pitch (it's mid-term) and I continue to wonder about him and football,and what I can do, if anything, to help him in his dream.

Kold

Um, encourage him in whatever he wants to do. Except for art, I'm f*cking brilliant at it and will probably never make a penny.

Just don't let him slack when things get hard. Everything gets hard.

Pauleta

Im a firm believer that as long as you have decent coordination then the rest is all in the head. You need to have the aptitude to become really good at something. Anybody with good fitness can do what Xavi or Paul Scholes does but nobody has the mental capability to do it bar them. I would say the majority of pro footballers would of been able to play any other sport if they wanted to. Some people just have an amazing level of concentration and composure.

irish_man

I know he isn't a world beater but just in my own experience. I remember being in Cavan watching my cousins play and a young Cillian Sheridan was also playing. He was good but not for a minute did i think he would go on to play for Celtic and CSKA Sofia.

I think if you are lucky enough to be deemed "good enough" by a big club scout, and are picked up by the big club, you can then grow better as a player (better training etc.) The major development happens after being picked up.

stumpypeeps

Fittle wrote: »

Ok...it's McDonalds for him so:(

If you have the time, read through this introduction to Matthew Syed's book "Bounce".


http://www.waterstones.com/wat/images/special/pdf/9780007350520.pdf


Greatness has nothing to do with being born with natural talent. Its all about the amount of time and practice that a child has done in its formative years.

Fittle

MrStuffins wrote: »

So your options for your child are professional footballer or McDonalds worker?

If I wasn't so convinced you were joking there, i'd be pretty angry!

EDIT: Also, as I said, hard work could still make him a Davies or Barton, both of these players have represented their country.

Obviously NOT.

I hope he's happy, whatever he chooses to do with his life. If you had read my first post you would see that I asked that this post was taken in the vein that it was meant. I only posted on the soccer forum to ask the lads about the soccer aspect of things.

Paul Tergat

Let the kid do what he wants and live his childhood. If he doesnt want to sing then dont try push him into it. Let him do the things he enjoys and he will find his own way in life.

The most important thing is for your kid to be happy.

Fittle

Pauleta wrote: »

Im a firm believer that as long as you have decent coordination then the rest is all in the head. You need to have the aptitude to become really good at something. Anybody with good fitness can do what Xavi or Paul Scholes does but nobody has the mental capability to do it bar them. I would say the majority of pro footballers would of been able to play any other sport if they wanted to. Some people just have an amazing level of concentration and composure.

And therein lies the problem.

The poor child has no coordination whatsoever!!!

Pinturicchio

Also, these days clubs tend to want their young players to be physically big. 14 year olds that are 6ft 2. That kind of thing. Leo Messi was turned down by Como before he joined Barca because he was too small!

Fittle

Pinturicchio wrote: »

Also, these days clubs tend to want their young players to be physically big. 14 year olds that are 6ft 2. That kind of thing. Leo Messi was turned down by Como before he joined Barca because he was too small!

Oh we know every operation that Messi has ever had:D

stumpypeeps

But what about child prodigies – kids who reach world class
while still in adolescence? Have they not learned at a super-fast
rate? Well, no. As we shall see in the next chapter, child prod -
igies may look as if they have reached the top in double-quick
time, but the reality is that they have compressed astronomical
quantities of practice into the short period between birth and
adolescence.

Push him ,push him hard then sit back and watch the cash roll in.

davyjose

Fittle wrote: »

Ok, so before this thread continues, I have no intention of ruining his love of the game - which is also a love of mine btw.

He will continue to play football...we will continue to drive 20miles on a sunday morning for ddsl football, and follow all the daddies who know where the pitch is at 9am on a sunday morning (even though they never know where the pitch is:rolleyes:).

This isn't really a question about whether he'll continue with football...because he will. He loves it, and I'll do anything and everything that I can to help him along.

But teachers and coaches have also told me that he could be an amazing singer and that I should pursue that for him. I have visions of him clearing my mortgage as the next justin beiber when he's 14:D

But he hates singing (though he sings all the time!!) and has no interest in it.

I suppose I should encourage the sport he loves over the stuff he's really good at??

I suppose I'm just wondering that if at 9 (almost) football becomes something you're just good at, as opposed to something that you just love, and continue to struggle to get a pass of the ball at every match??

Hmm... be a good parent, or be a **** parent. Chances of him being a proffesional footballer, or a famous singer are almost zero.

Let him do what he enjoys, and support his education -- the one thing guaranteed to allow him a happy and free future (mortgage or not).

Fittle

p_larkin99 wrote: »

Let the kid do what he wants and live his childhood. If he doesnt want to sing then dont try push him into it. Let him do the things he enjoys and he will find his own way in life.

The most important thing is for your kid to be happy.

I completely agree.

I don't care if he becomes the third leg of Jedward...once that makes him happy:eek:

But I have never seen a kid to have such love for football. Having said that, he didn't kick a ball till last summer and had little interest...or love...in anything before that...so perhaps it's just because he has found something he loves.

flahavaj

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Push him ,push him hard then sit back and watch the cash roll in.

I bet stumpy peeps is one of those Asian women that dedicate their lives to raising high achieving kids.:pac:

stumpypeeps

flahavaj wrote: »

I bet stumpy peeps is one of those Asian women that dedicate their lives to raising high achieving kids.:pac:

I make them continue playing till they get it right.

Mars Bar

It's a bit of both I think.

You see David Beckham and Gary Neville, not brilliantly gifted but worked damn hard and it paid off for them.

Then you see young Ben Greenhalgh who won Football's Next Star and got a contract with Inter Milan because of it and he didn't play football until in his teens. He had natural ability (and does double work for Ronaldo!!) that he was born with.

Just let your fella enjoy it while he is.

Fromvert

Fittle wrote: »

I completely agree.

I don't care if he becomes the third leg of Jedward...once that makes him happy:eek:

But I have never seen a kid to have such love for football. Having said that, he didn't kick a ball till last summer and had little interest...or love...in anything before that...so perhaps it's just because he has found something he loves.

So he only kicked a ball about 10 months ago. What do you expect him to have achieved in that time?

davyjose

Fittle wrote: »

Obviously NOT.

I hope he's happy, whatever he chooses to do with his life. If you had read my first post you would see that I asked that this post was taken in the vein that it was meant. I only posted on the soccer forum to ask the lads about the soccer aspect of things.

What vein was it meant in? You seem like one of the most delusional parents I've ever come across, as your OP intimates. You have a big frown telling us youR child is destined for a future in McD's if he can't be the next Bieber or Ronaldo!

Terrible!

stumpypeeps

To be honest, at 8 and having only kicked a ball 10 months ago, I'd say he's too late to ever become a great football player.

keane2097

The best players in every sport are the ones that work the hardest.

There are very few exceptions to this.

"Natural talent" is something lazy people talk about to make themselves feel better about their lack of achievements.

Fittle

davyjose wrote: »

What vein was it meant in? You seem like one of the most delusional parents I've ever come across, as your OP intimates. You have a big frown telling us youR child is destined for a future in McD's if he can't be the next Bieber or Ronaldo!

Terrible!

I am far from delusional.

I just want him to be happy. I love the soccer forum on boards and thought it might be a good place to ask if professional soccer players are 'born' or 'can be made'.

I am not a pushy mother at all - far from it. I will continue to help him pursue his football 'career' even though his footballing skills could be those of the Renford Rejects. I think he could be the next Justin Beiber but he won't listen to me ...but hey, what do I know;)

MrStuffins

keane2097 wrote: »

The best players in every sport are the ones that work the hardest.

There are very few exceptions to this.

"Natural talent" is something lazy people talk about to make themselves feel better about their lack of achievements.

Ridiculous post!

The best players are not the best JUST because they work hard. They have a hell of a lot of natural talent too.

You obviously have no clue how the human body works. Some people are born for sport and some people are not!

You trying to tell me that Usain Bolt is the fastest man alive because he practiced running in a straight line over and over? No, it's because he was born witht he natural attributes. He then harnessed those attributes by working hard. But he had to have the attributes first.

tallaghtmick

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I disagree.

you didnt really disagree you copied someone elses quote from a book

and i also said lots of practice helps but you do need sporty genes

examples from football

harry and jamie redknapp
frank lampard snr and jnr
alex ferguson and darren ferguson
steve bruce alex bruce
peter and kasper schmeichel
even the neville bro's sister is a good netball player
rafael nadals uncle was captain of barcelona for years
niko kranjar off spurs his father was a player for the former yugoslavia
javier hernandez's father and grandfather both played club football and international football.

sonic85

keane2097 wrote: »

The best players in every sport are the ones that work the hardest.

There are very few exceptions to this.

"Natural talent" is something lazy people talk about to make themselves feel better about their lack of achievements.

thats very harsh. id imagine theres plenty of people out there who have played football from an early age worked hard at it but got nowhere. the best players may have worked extremely hard but id say they also had exceptional ability. a lot more ability than an ordinary joe soap

Fittle

MrStuffins wrote: »

Ridiculous post!

The best players are not the best JUST because they work hard. They have a hell of a lot of natural talent too.

You obviously have no clue how the human body works. Some people are born for sport and some people are not!

You trying to tell me that Usain Bolt is the fastest man alive because he practiced running in a straight line over and over? No, it's because he was born witht he natural attributes. He then harnessed those attributes by working hard. But he had to have the attributes first.

Have to say, in the context of my original post, my lad is not a natural at all. He loves football though, and long may that continue:D

MrStuffins

Fittle wrote: »

He is at an age where he completely believes that he will play at Old Trafford when he's older. And he wonders if Trap will pick him for Under 16s or if he might just play for Scotland (my dad was born there). Do you remember that age where you just believe stuff....before it's knocked out of you???

So I go along with it...and we talk about when he lives in Manchester and what I might do for a job, while he's playing football every day (well, he talks about this!!!)...and that we might just live in an apartment because it's just the two of us, and he'll only be training about one hour a week etc etc

We've all been at this age. When i was young, I was a half decent footballer. Nowhere near the best on my team, but I still thought i'd be captaining a team in an FA Cup Final when i got older.

but in my opinion, these things aren't "Knocked out" of you, you just begin to see realism as you mature and get older.

If your lil man hasnt got what it takes to be a pro footballer, it doesn't matter! He'll realise it in his own time and by the time he does he probably wont have any interest in being a pro footballer anyway. He'll have matured.

sonic85

Fittle wrote: »

I am far from delusional.

I just want him to be happy. I love the soccer forum on boards and thought it might be a good place to ask if professional soccer players are 'born' or 'can be made'.

I am not a pushy mother at all - far from it. I will continue to help him pursue his football 'career' even though his footballing skills could be those of the Renford Rejects. I think he could be the next Justin Beiber but he won't listen to me ...but hey, what do I know;)

jesus id love to have been a Renford Reject! unfortunately i wasnt good enough

Fittle

tallaghtmick wrote: »

you didnt really disagree you copied someone elses quote from a book

and i also said lots of practice helps but you do need sporty genes

examples from football

harry and jamie redknapp
frank lampard snr and jnr
alex ferguson and darren ferguson
steve bruce alex bruce
peter and kasper schmeichel
even the neville bro's sister is a good netball player
rafael nadals uncle was captain of barcelona for years
niko kranjar off spurs his father was a player for the former yugoslavia
javier hernandez's father and grandfather both played club football and international football.

Well I'm not going to go through every example you just gave there...but for example...

Harry Redknapp.

I'd say Jamie was kicking a ball around the house from the day he could walk becoz his dad loved football.

But what about Luiz Suarez?

Single mother with no dad in the mix?

stumpypeeps

tallaghtmick wrote: »

you didnt really disagree you copied someone elses quote from a book

I formed my opinion based on that book and the work done by the author in backing up his book with research and science. You formed your opinion from common misconceptions and a lack of research.

tallaghtmick

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I formed my opinion based on that book and the work done by the author in backing up his book with research and science. You formed your opinion from common misconceptions and a lack of research.

so we should all follow what 1 person has written???how many scientists have argued back and forth over the years with different opinions yet YOU and that author are correct and the rest of us are fools???