Is this mad?

Hermy

Would it be completely insane to take a feed from the switch for the immersion heater to power an electric shower?
The immersion is not used as water is heated by gas.
Shower is heat but no pump.
Immersion fuse is 20amp and trips regularly.

From searching through this forum the past hour I think I know the answer but the owner/ occupier of the house may need some convincing.
If ye could educate me then I might be able to get him to get it sorted to RECI standard.

M cebee

if you mean an instantaneous shower -your 2.5 won't be suitable

Hermy

I'm not an electrician - is 2.5 a cable spec?

aujopimur

Judging by your present electrical knowledge I suggest getting a qualified electrician.

Hermy

aujopimur wrote: »

Judging by your present electrical knowledge I suggest getting a qualified electrician.

You're missing the point. I know the job needs a qualified sparks but the owner of the property will need more convincing.

Solair

The 2.5 mm2 is the cross sectional area of the cable i.e. how thick it is.

Your immersion heater is using at most 3000 watts. An electric shower uses a lot more than that and could be something like 9500 watts.

The circuit breaker or fuse protecting that circuit is rated to trip or blow if the maximum amount of power that is safe for that cable to carry is exceeded.

The higher the wattage, the bigger the cable needed to carry all that power.

Basically, if you connected an electric shower to your immersion heater wiring it would at best constantly trip the circuit breaker or, at worst burn your house down as the cable would catch fire.

I would strongly suggest calling an electrician if you want an electric shower installed. It's not something you should tackle on your own. There are just too many risks of fire and potential electric shock / death if it is not done correctly.

Bruthal

Hermy wrote: »

Would it be completely insane to take a feed from the switch for the immersion heater to power an electric shower?
The immersion is not used as water is heated by gas.
Shower is heat but no pump.
Immersion fuse is 20amp and trips regularly.

From searching through this forum the past hour I think I know the answer but the owner/ occupier of the house may need some convincing.
If ye could educate me then I might be able to get him to get it sorted to RECI standard.

It might work if you want to use the immersion feed cable as underfloor heating as a side effect of running the shower:D

But in reality, no you cant do that. The immersion will use 2.5 square cable. A shower will likely require 10 square.

If the immersion MCB/fuse is tripping/blowing regularly, does this mean it has already been done?

M cebee

probably -by the sound of it

Hermy

robbie7730 wrote: »

If the immersion MCB/fuse is tripping/blowing regularly, does this mean it has already been done?

Yes it has already been done and I'm trying to get it undone.

Bruthal

What size is the MCB, a 20 amp one would be expected to trip fairly quickly with an 8 or 9kw load on it. It needs to be undone really. It is definitely an instant electric shower here? Only this circuit is tripping?

Hermy

The MCB is 20amp.

Pason

trying to ring cant get through

Sparkpea

Its not only mad its completely INSANE! Seen it myself before in an old cottage (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056181754&page=3) when I went to replace the shower that didn't work very well (go figure). It works in the short term but is highly dangerous and will trip often. Whoever done that needs jailed. Like you I suggested it done properly and get a new cable in by the sparks, landlord didn't seem to keen either.

Bruthal

Sparkpea wrote: »

Its not only mad its completely INSANE! Seen it myself before in an old cottage (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056181754&page=3) when I went to replace the shower that didn't work very well (go figure). It works in the short term but is highly dangerous and will trip often. Whoever done that needs jailed. Like you I suggested it done properly and get a new cable in by the sparks, landlord didn't seem to keen either.

Not sure if highly dangerous is how i`d describe it, as it does have the proper breaker for a 2.5 cable and its doing its job. But Certainly not to be recommended. It could of been worse and had a 32 or 40 amp MCB, then it would of been a bit of a hazzard, but might of worked for a long time un-noticed then.

M cebee

people have been killed with leads connected to showers

dunno if it's rcd'd

would've been a lot worse if cable wasn't fused correctly

Hermy

Well the good news is my research has convinced the guilty party to get it sorted and I've spoken to someone who can do the proper job that the shower requires.
In the meantime I've learned that there's a lot more to domestic electrics then I had ever imagined. Food for thought to be sure!

M cebee

in the meantime don't use the shower:)

Bruthal

Hermy wrote: »

Well the good news is my research has convinced the guilty party to get it sorted and I've spoken to someone who can do the proper job that the shower requires.
In the meantime I've learned that there's a lot more to domestic electrics then I had ever imagined. Food for thought to be sure!

Plenty think it is just a couple of wires to the back of a socket etc. Its a very wide ranging field the electrics.

Hermy

Is there a good source of info ye would recommend for the DIY electrician or is this frowned upon cause a little knowledge can be a bad thing? I'm not thinking of a career change or anything but a little bit more knowledge could help me get the basics right and also know when to leave it to the experts.

Bruthal

There are a few qualified that only know the basics i`d say. Just the basics alone would be very involved.

SparKing

robbie7730 wrote: »

Just the basics alone would be very involved.

Can't say I agree with this, speaking as a spark.

Bruthal

SparKing wrote: »

Can't say I agree with this, speaking as a spark.

Well speaking as a sparks is probably why you think the basics are easy. How long would it take to teach a fella with no clue about electrical the basics would you say? And what would the basics be, wiring a plug? Changing a socket? Wiring a few sockets? Have you ever fixed work done by someone who knew the basics?

SparKing

I reckon I could explain the basics of house mains wiring in fifteen minutes.
Teaching somebody good practice in a trade takes longer obviously. There's a bit too much of mysticism surrounding the trade in my opinion. There's a lot of reference to qualifications on this forum, far more important is competence.
I wonder if the guy who wired up the shower from an immersion circuit was "qualified".

Sparkpea

SparKing wrote: »

I reckon I could explain the basics of house mains wiring in fifteen minutes.
Teaching somebody good practice in a trade takes longer obviously. There's a bit too much of mysticism surrounding the trade in my opinion. There's a lot of reference to qualifications on this forum, far more important is competence.
I wonder if the guy who wired up the shower from an immersion circuit was "qualified".

fairpoints sparking, thought probably the key thing in electrics is to make sure power is isolated and I know many DIY men just cut the power to the house because they don't know much about fuses, mcbs etc. if things are not labelled. If they cut the power to the house to wire a socket then they dont need to worry about checking if its live etc (tho I always wood just to be 110% lol).

I hold my hands up to anyone and say I've no qualifications for plumbing, I have anxiety issues when it comes to a classroom type environment or in general being around too many people which is why self employed suits me to the ground. I learnt on the job with my father for 8 years or so and easily know tonnes of information that tech/college wouldn't teach you. Yes theres probably some basic technical figures things etc that I don't know but the reality is if I don't know/need to know it by now then I probably never will. I know I'm never going to make a packet working on sites or being a gas installer but thats now what I'm here for. Anyone can install a bathroom, boiler, shower, radiator etc. so long as they have know how, good skills, capable of working with tools etc. only thing you can't do is sign things off and commission boilers which is why I bright in someone else for that. Infact I personally only know 1 OFTEC registered engineer out of all the service engineers I know.

Bruthal

SparKing wrote: »

I reckon I could explain the basics of house mains wiring in fifteen minutes.
Teaching somebody good practice in a trade takes longer obviously. There's a bit too much of mysticism surrounding the trade in my opinion. There's a lot of reference to qualifications on this forum, far more important is competence.
I wonder if the guy who wired up the shower from an immersion circuit was "qualified".

I agree with you about "qualified" versus competent, but to explain the basics of wiring a house in 15 minutes? Its very easy to explain the basics of something when you yourself understand what your saying, but explaining it to someone who has not a clue, and after 15 minutes they now have a grasp of what you said? Come back to them a month later and ask them to now explain it back to you, even if you spend a day explaining it.

Explaining the basics is far different from teaching the basics.

In my opinion, the basics is all most sparks ever do on sites, and after a few years, quite a few could not manage even that properly.

Bruthal

SparKing wrote: »

I wonder if the guy who wired up the shower from an immersion circuit was "qualified".

Probably not, but he might have known the basics, the shower sounds like it worked for brief times until the 20amp MCB triped each time:D