Setting up as a gun dealer

defib

Hi Guys,

Afew of us in business are looking at setting up as a gun dealer.

Anyone here done this?

Cass

I haven't done it, but often wondered if i could. When i asked around and got some feedback i decided that it was a hell of alot of trouble and more to the point very expensive.

• If you intend to sell anything other than shotgun cartridges or .22lr ammo (i think all rimfire) then you need a restricted firearms dealers license. This is alot more to purchase than the ordinary ammo license.
• You then need a secure facility/shop. It has to comply with higher standards than any private residence, have CCTV, monitored alarm, panic button, etc.
• You need market research to evaluate your client base and see if there is enough of a market to survive.
• You then need to establish a chain of suppliers. These will not immediately give you credit so you need to buy/pay for goods upfront until a line of credit can be established. Even holding a small amount of gear/ ammo / guns, etc will set you back somewhere around €35,000 min to €75,000 or above.
• Then you need customers. Word of mouth is a deal breaker for any new shop. One bad review will do more than 100 good ones.
• Website is essential in these times.
• Then there is the main obstacle. Irish gun dealers are probably unique in that they must wait months to make a sale or least complete the sale due to the nature of our licensing system here. As when the new system started in 2009 i spoke to a few dealers, one of which had over €20,000 worth of "sold" stock in his store room. It took him 7 months to finally get the last sale done, however in the meantime people are still coming and going trading, selling, buying. I'm no business man or financial expert, but it would appear that at any one time (depending on sales) a firearms dealer may have up to or over 20%+ of his stock "in limbo". All the time staff need wages, bills need paying and suppliers need paying.
• There are other issues such as registering for VAT, your business itself, getting an accountant, etc, but they are the more basic needs.

I would love to get into the trade, but especially in todays climate you would need alot of disposable income or have the lotto to finance you in order to make it work. I could be off with my figures, but i would doubt its an easy thing to get into.

Hopefully some of the other lads that are involved in or actually have gone through the process will be along and might clear up some issues.

rugerman

theres guys at it with 20years+and there getting out of it that serves enough warning if i was thinking about it

4gun

rugerman wrote: »

theres guys at it with 20years+and there getting out of it that serves enough warning if i was thinking about it

I would suspect that the close because they are unable/unwilling to adapt to the fact that we now have access to the internet and can research the best prices for the items we wish to purchase..I would bet that dealers that publish their prices on the net are doing a good trade considering the state of the economy

J.R.

I've no experience of such an enterprise but aside from selling guns & ammo I'm guessing a large proportion of sales would be in shooting / fishing / doggy / clothing accessories.

I'd imagine it would be difficult to compete with guys selling accessories on line who can work from a premises / shed at the back of their house, or rented cheaply in a remote spot, perhaps with the assistance of family members, who don't have the same degree of outgoing expenses, rent, rates, salaries, etc. and adequate heat / light to keep premises comfortable for customers browsing.

Also they would not have the same level of security expenses - setting up costs to meet stringent standards - secure gun room - cctv - monitored alarms etc, plus monthly monitoring expenses, call out charges, servicing security equipment annually, upgrading equipment over a number of years etc.

Also in such a scenario the on-line seller could keep down a day job / part -time job and deal with on-line sales in their spare time.

In such a case it would be very easy for the on-line seller to undercut the prices of a gun shop on a busy street in any town in Ireland.

on a side note:

besides purchasing ammo many shooters I know do not buy much regularily.....they have most of the gear/accessories/clothing they need and only replace when worn out which with good gear could be quite a number of years. Besides ammo they often buy nothing else (shooting related) for a number of years. Not the best customer base you could hope for!!!

sfakiaman

All the above plus, Commercial rates, water charges, building insurance, public liability insurance, shrinkage etc. The retail trade is no bed of roses especially in Ireland. Been there, done that, never again!

freddieot

The big issue for anyone setting up 'a shop' now is the internet. On-line sales of most things including shooting related are expected to grow by on average 10-12% per year. Hard to complete with that, even if you are an established dealer.

Older shooters may not be too internet friendly but as said already they will have most of the stuff they want. Younger shooters and new shooters will be on-line constantly and because the sites involved can buy in bulk, you will find it very hard to compete.

One RFD friend of mine says that his other product line (fishing gear) is also being hammered by the internet.

On top of this, don't forget that the likes of LIDL and ALDI frequently run specials on everything from fishing rods to spotting scopes, night vision monocles, et. Most of this is not exactly top quality - but it does not always have to be depending on the use. I bought a Spotting Scope recently in ALDI that would not be great at 1,000yds but is doing good enough at 300yds - not bad for €24.99. If I wanted NIKON etc. I would check on-line as well as with some dealers - whihc would be cheaper :rolleyes:


Unless you have some sort of a good angle, I'd be very causious about setting up in anything to do with shooting. Still, best of luck if you decide to go ahead with it.

Grizzly 45

And dont post on boards.ie either!!As the head pencil pusher of C4 Dept of Justice,[Hi Guys and Gals!! big Helloo to all my fans if you are reading this!!:):rolleyes:]
Will consider you as possibly subversive,a nutter os somthing of the two,and send down lots of nasty and totally irrevelant questions to your local [then] Superintendant to ask you in your interview for setting up a dealership, on your posts which they have cherry picked out of long threads and totally out of context here out of the shooting boards!
[All BTW provable ]

Is it worth doing here..???Nah!! If you are going to be treated like a subversive and a threat to this crummy State.
Why should they gain ONE cent of your labours,blood ,sweat and tears in tax???Cos thats all they WILL do is make it as difficult as possible to set it up and then arrive down to extract their pound of flesh when you are up and running!
Let them screw it out of somone else like bankers, politicans with a million or two in golden handshakes and pensions.Or go and beg for it like good little serfs off our EU overlords.
I wouldnt give them the pleasure anymore!:mad:

arrowloopboy

In the current climate............sorry..........Its a brain fart of an idea

One shot on kill

if you decide to do it best of luck
you would be a brave man
but you cant break your leg unless you chance your arm
it depends i think on were you are in the cou try if there is much shooting around you obviously but then does a big established dealer have it wrapped up .

id also say forget about thinkin of selli g stuff a bit cheaper it would be to hard id imagine with all expenses outlined above

not sure what profit margins would be but i know in my game its very small

demonloop

One shot on kill wrote: »

if you decide to do it best of luck
you would be a brave man
but you cant break your leg unless you chance your arm
it depends i think on were you are in the cou try if there is much shooting around you obviously but then does a big established dealer have it wrapped up .

id also say forget about thinkin of selli g stuff a bit cheaper it would be to hard id imagine with all expenses outlined above

not sure what profit margins would be but i know in my game its very small

You'd need to check the 'e' and 'n' on your keyboard fella

One shot on kill

demonloop wrote: »

You'd need to check the 'e' and 'n' on your keyboard fella

sorry guys useing her i phone fair handy yoke apart from the silly errors i dont really pay attention to. prob make my posts a little better to read all the same
thanks

defib

Thanks for all your input.

We currently run a business with offices which is doing well and we all shoot. So all the overheads are covered.

Has anyone gone down the road of becoming a dealer.

Grizzly 45

Other point..Where do you intend to set up the biz?If you are anywhere near a troublesome neighbourhood..forget it.IOW places with proably 3 or more scobe families residing there with form.

Your biz will have to be in either a industrial commercial estate or in a town commercial/retail area.AND you or your company MUST be the sole occupants,leasees etc of the entire building.

Heard of a bunch of lads were down here looking at an ex BANK once.Brillaint strong rooms,solid bank vault doors,and security,in the middle of a town.Local Gardai on tap within five to ten mins
Was apprently rejected due to the fact that there was a tenant still upstairs on the second floor,and that it "could" be broken into via tunnelling down from that floor to the vaults..

If you are rural ,proably anywhere by 3 miles outside a major town,proably wont hapen either..
They want us buying our guns and ammo in towns and us shooting out in the middle of nowhere.:eek::rolleyes:.Crazy,but "thats the way it is" as we say here!

demonloop

One point I'd raise, especially to the OP, are you aware of the margins in guns/ammo? Its single digit %ages in a lot of cases.

You'll need a lot of turnover before making any money, if there are a few of you on board there might not be a great deal left once everyone gets their slice.

That said, if you have another very good income and a lot of spare time on your hands and just fancy being a dealer then go for it. But don't be depending on the money part, initially at least

One other point I raised on a similar thread to this previously, it isn't just a case of phoning the importers/wholesalers and getting a (pro-forma!) account set up, the majority of them will have estabilshed dealer networks in most areas, and if you are near another dealer they can and will make plenty of noise to stop another account in 'their' area.

The wholesaler will always side on the established route to market, rather than open a new account at the risk of annoying the existing client.

The above points are all from my experience specific to the gun trade.

garv123

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If you are rural ,proably anywhere by 3 miles outside a major town,proably wont hapen either..
They want us buying our guns and ammo in towns and us shooting out in the middle of nowhere.:eek::rolleyes:.Crazy,but "thats the way it is" as we say here!

im 12 miles from town and theres a RFD across the road from me :D

Grizzly 45

I hope it works for you Garv..They seem to have the oddest rules and preconditions on setting up around here.Seems to be on wether the Sun is in the cusp of Libra,wether there is a application on a week day when there was certain weather conditions...Hopefully they WILL allow two RFDs that close to each other in a rural location.
Was another bugbear down here in Limerick.We have one RFD in the city centre,in a less than salaubrious neighbourhood,who deals,and I'll use that term loosly, mostly in 12 GA and .22 ammo.Guns in store...Order them from a catolouge!!:eek::(
Know of one other lad who is/was trying to get a dealership open to just deal in ammo,and is having no joy whatsoever.
Seems to be no rhyme or reason the Gardai/DOJ thinking on this at all.

4gun

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I hope it works for you Garv..They seem to have the oddest rules and preconditions on setting up around here.Seems to be on wether the Sun is in the cusp of Libra,wether there is a application on a week day when there was certain weather conditions...Hopefully they WILL allow two RFDs that close to each other in a rural location.
Was another bugbear down here in Limerick.We have one RFD in the city centre,in a less than salaubrious neighbourhood,who deals,and I'll use that term loosly, mostly in 12 GA and .22 ammo.Guns in store...Order them from a catolouge!!:eek::(
Know of one other lad who is/was trying to get a dealership open to just deal in ammo,and is having no joy whatsoever.
Seems to be no rhyme or reason the Gardai/DOJ thinking on this at all.

Salaubrious
I just love that word
Chill out there a small bit there Grizz your going to pop a vessel if you let all the petty little bureaucrats in this cabbage haggard get to you..

Tackleberrywho

4gun wrote: »

Salaubrious
I just love that word
Chill out there a small bit there Grizz your going to pop a vessel if you let all the petty little bureaucrats in this cabbage haggard get to you..

Mightie Salaubrious all together sham!

My retirement consists of my own dealership at the back of the house.

I've the rest of my life to build it.

As Johnny Cash said, Once piece at a time......

4gun

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Mightie Salaubrious all together sham!

My retirement consists of my own dealership at the back of the house.

I've the rest of my life to build it.

As Johnny Cash said, Once piece at a time......

by then you'll be the impatient cranky old bas**rd that one often meet in gun shops that have seen it all n' done it all and treats every enquiry from a novice with utter contempt simply because he's forgotten the answer and complains that they dont make guns like they used to and how you once shot the fleas off a dogs back at 2000 yards blind folded with both hands tied behind your back.....



feck all your still missin is the gun shop

Tackleberrywho

4gun wrote: »

by then you'll be the impatient cranky old bas**rd that one often meet in gun shops that have seen it all n' done it all and treats every enquiry from a novice with utter contempt simply because he's forgotten the answer and complains that they dont make guns like they used to and how you once shot the fleas off a dogs back at 2000 yards blind folded with both hands tied behind your back.....



feck all your still missin is the gun shop

Lighting matches @400 yards with a .22lr (blindfolded)

Paulo says you are the impatient one, have two deer shot before he decides which one he is going to take

4gun

and I did it with my eyes closed too

ianoo

garv123 wrote: »

im 12 miles from town and theres a RFD across the road from me :D

whereabouts is that garv123 ???pm me if you like ...

ian

garv123

ianoo wrote: »

whereabouts is that garv123 ???pm me if you like ...

ian

sent there