Following on from the size of the Universe thread

Rubecula

Ok I have had an idea. Yes it may sound a bit mad, but if I can express myself correctly I would like your opinions on it.

What is matter? To me matter is another form of energy, and it will one day return to a state of energy. (I may be wrong on this)

So if this is right, what makes matter from energy? I believe it is "spin"

Everything spins in one way or another. Sub atomic particles spin to be sub atomic particles, if they didn't spin they would not exist. Atoms spin, molecules move around as a result of spin.

Planets spin, Stars spin.

Galaxies spin.

What qualities of spin can we observe in our daily lives?

Well one thing is the tendancy of things to move out from the centre with spin, and as they move further out they tend to increase in velocity away from the centre. (Velocity in an 'orbit' may not increase)

So could the universe be 'spinning'? This would account for the acceleration of galaxies away from each other?

Such a universal spin would of course by it's very nature not be in 2 or even three dimensions.

So that it my idea of Dark Energy, a kind of extra dimensional centripetal force.


I now stand here ready to be pulled apart by more knowledgable minds than my own.:pac:

Beeker

Rubecula wrote: »

Ok I have had an idea. Yes it may sound a bit mad, but if I can express myself correctly I would like your opinions on it.

What is matter? To me matter is another form of energy, and it will one day return to a state of energy. (I may be wrong on this)

So if this is right, what makes matter from energy? I believe it is "spin"

Everything spins in one way or another. Sub atomic particles spin to be sub atomic particles, if they didn't spin they would not exist. Atoms spin, molecules move around as a result of spin.

Planets spin, Stars spin.

Galaxies spin.

What qualities of spin can we observe in our daily lives?

Well one thing is the tendancy of things to move out from the centre with spin, and as they move further out they tend to increase in velocity away from the centre. (Velocity in an 'orbit' may not increase)

So could the universe be 'spinning'? This would account for the acceleration of galaxies away from each other?

Such a universal spin would of course by it's very nature not be in 2 or even three dimensions.

So that it my idea of Dark Energy, a kind of extra dimensional centripetal force.


I now stand here ready to be pulled apart by more knowledgable minds than my own.:pac:

I like the idea:) You are correct with the matter and energy being one and the same, e=mc2 and all that. But like yourself I will wait for greater knowledge to come our way from the many smart people on this board:)

The Hill Billy

I'm with Beeker on this. Interesting notion.

slade_x

Rubecula wrote: »

What is matter? To me matter is another form of energy, and it will one day return to a state of energy. (I may be wrong on this)

yes in mass energy equivalence the mass of an object has an equivalence in energy. but it requires a significant force to convert mass back into energy, it will not happen on its own. an easy enough example of this is the sun converting some of the mass of its particles into light, radiation etc. but it does not convert all of its mass to energy, when you fuse hydrogen nuclei to helium nuclei, even though a lot of energy was liberated a lot of its potential went into making it helium so mass is still stored in the form of helium (this is how stars fuses heavier elements into even heavier ones, from hydrogen to helium all the way to iron). If you were to liberate 100% of the energy from matter you would have one hell of an explosion. Annihilating one gram of matter would be enough to dwarf the energy release from the atomic weapon dropped on hiroshima

certain elements do decay over time (we call them radioactive) but never convert all their mass back to energy. it would be a very scary universe if they did

Rubecula wrote: »

So if this is right, what makes matter from energy? I believe it is "spin"

If you could answer that question you would have the holy grail of science right there. simply put we do not know. scientists are actively searching for the primordial force or forces that resulted in the creation of matter. Thanks to einsteins bold equation we know they are one in the same, but what factors, primordial particles (that no longer exist) or forces cause matter remain unknown, why does matter clump together, why is it even matter and still not energy. we may never know, the search is ongoing at sites like fermalab and the LHC for example. Spin is but another variable and to conclude its what causes matter makes no sense to me at all especially from the very nature and execution of the current experiments trying to unlock that mystery

Rubecula wrote: »

Everything spins in one way or another. Sub atomic particles spin to be sub atomic particles, if they didn't spin they would not exist. Atoms spin, molecules move around as a result of spin.

explaining the spin of elementary particles would require delving into some very advanced physics like quantum theory. observing, quantifying and explaining are very different things. no one quite knows why the particles spin, it is said to be a type of angular momentum

Some possible useful links may be from a quick google

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_(physics)
http://science.jrank.org/pages/6385/Spin-Subatomic-Particles.html
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy00/phy00562.htm

Rubecula wrote: »

Well one thing is the tendancy of things to move out from the centre with spin, and as they move further out they tend to increase in velocity away from the centre. (Velocity in an 'orbit' may not increase)

Thats actually the other way around angular momentum is conserved. the ice skater who pulls in their arms and legs closer to the axis of rotation lowers her moment of inertia and true to the mathematical expresssion her velocity increases. Since angular momentum is conserved changing the value of one expression changes the value of another

A more obvious example is if you imagine our solar system as a record player, the planets closest to the center (sun) will orbit faster than those further out. (mercuries orbit is nearly 10 times that of neptunes)

Rubecula wrote: »

So could the universe be 'spinning'? This would account for the acceleration of galaxies away from each other?

im not sure how to comment on this as it doesnt really make sense, if anything if that were true the pace at which galaxies move away from each other would decrease over time, those furthest out would be slower than local clusters. Considering the observed expansion there is no center of the universe for galaxies to orbit.

Rubecula wrote: »

So that it my idea of Dark Energy, a kind of extra dimensional centripetal force.

as above unfortunately wouldnt make much sense either. What we observe would be very different than the current state of things if dark energy exerted a centripetal force, at the very places where we see expansion is the greatest we would have the furthest out galaxies orbiting each other and not accelerating away from each other.

SugarHigh

What would it be spinning inside?

MRPRO03

Could the Universe itself be some sort of sub atomic particle that is part of another Universe ?, implying then that Universes are in an endless cycle.

himnextdoor

I have a kind of theory about the difference between energy and matter.

I think that matter and energy are the manifestations of the only two ways that space can react to fluctuations in its field.

If you imagine space as a collection of points that by their nature repulse each other. I think of each point as a ball-bearing that has been magnetised inside out so that the surface of the sphere is, say, the north-pole and the south-pole is at the center. So, in my picture I see space as trillions upon trillions of such spheres. For reasons of geometry it is not possible for these balls to be arranged into a perfect sphere so there is no possiblilty of an equal distribution of force. Suppose though you were able to contain the balls in a spherical field in empty space before removing the field and allowing the balls to interact as they may. What would we observe?

The balls would start to fly apart, each one pushing away in all directions. The ones at the surface would move apart more rapidly than the ones at the centre and a lattice-work of gaps would develop between them. Now, this pattern of gaps could not be symmetrical; the system would not be coming apart uniformly. This would give rise to forces acting in different directions causing waves of varying levels of repulsion to propagate throughout the internal stucture of the system. These waves could get chaotic, interacting energetically and the situation could arise whereby some balls are pushed through gaps which in turn de-stabalises that area or that whirlpools of energy could confine balls to particular regions.

Balls 'shot' through the lattice represent electromagnetic radiation and balls caught up in swirling eddies represent matter.

I believe that this model can account for all the phenomena of the universe.

irishrazor

Spin.....
this is a property of particles on a quantum level. It should not be confused with the rotation of the planets around their respective axes or a galaxy around its centre etc.