Dev Tanks - Invert or Rotate?

jpb1974

Just wondering:

When developing your film do you invert your tanks or rotate the film using the stick that comes with your tank?

Typically I invert but I've two Paterson dev tanks and they do my head because they constantly leak on inversion.

Had a look on Maco for an alternate dev tank but they only seem to have the AP tanks in the 1 x 120 size, whereas ideally I'd prefer a 2 x 120.

Cheers
j

DaireQuinlan

jpb1974 wrote: »

Just wondering:

When developing your film do you invert your tanks or rotate the film using the stick that comes with your tank?

Typically I invert but I've two Paterson dev tanks and they do my head because they constantly leak on inversion.

Had a look on Maco for an alternate dev tank but they only seem to have the AP tanks in the 1 x 120 size, whereas ideally I'd prefer a 2 x 120.

Cheers
j

I always invert, my two JOBO tanks are fine but yeah my knockoff Paterson tank leaks a bit when inverting. The reason being that I've seen swirly marks in the past using the twizzle stick. Since then I've always inverted.

jpb1974

Thanks for that.

I suspected that rotating might be flaky alright.

You'd think at this stage that Paterson would be able to come up with a tank that doesn't leak... grr... phuckers.

j

aidanic

... me? Rotate! Have the 2 x 35mm and the 3 x 35mm Paterson tanks, and generally no problems with swirl marks.

artyeva

glad to hear others having the same issue then! i thought the leaky patterson tanks i have were just due to them being 2nd hand and a bit battered when i bought them :rolleyes:

i always invert & have an excellent system of an old towel and a big-ass rubber band to combat the leakiness, works for me.

thefizz

jpb1974 wrote: »

Just wondering:

When developing your film do you invert your tanks or rotate the film using the stick that comes with your tank?

Typically I invert but I've two Paterson dev tanks and they do my head because they constantly leak on inversion.

Had a look on Maco for an alternate dev tank but they only seem to have the AP tanks in the 1 x 120 size, whereas ideally I'd prefer a 2 x 120.

Cheers
j

Twisting the stick as you describe would not agitate the developer sufficiently. Gently turning the tank on its head and back again is best. I haven't ever had any leaky paterson tanks so maybe I'm just lucky.

Heebie

Invert.

ValueInIreland

In my experience, the current version of the Paterson tank (The one with the big black cover the full width of the tank) never leaks. The older version (the one copied by Jessops & AP) used to leak like crazy!
Both versions of agitation work, but be careful with the inversion method alone as it can introduce air bubbles which leave underdeveloped spots.
My Method:
Once every minute; Invert (once or twice), firm tap on the bench to dislodge air bubbles, then once in the middle of development, remove the (outer!) lid and rotate the spirals.
Important: Find what works for you and keep it the same or you results will vary.

positivenote

always inverted, since i first started

jpb1974

Thanks for the replies everyone.

From what I've read on the internet it seems that Paterson tanks are renowned for leaking. I have 2 tanks, both bought new and they've never been leak free since day 1.

Personally I wouldn't be confident that stirring along would agitate the developer enough, although I did try a roll of 35mm last night... will scan this evening and see what it looks like.

I'm going to try a 2 x 35mm AP tank at some stage to see how that goes.

sineadw

ValueInIreland wrote: »

Once every minute; Invert (once or twice), firm tap on the bench to dislodge air bubbles, then once in the middle of development, remove the (outer!) lid and rotate the spirals.
Important: Find what works for you and keep it the same or you results will vary.

I invert too (and my tanks leak :rolleyes: ) but my inversion differs greatly from film to film. So with Efke Aura for example it's one inversion full stop (as per TheFizz - thank you ) and on the other extreme there's kodak t-max which is 5 fast inversions every 30 seconds!

With 5x4 sheets I put the tank on its side and roll it very gently but continuously from one hand to the other.

Simplicius

Inversion but two things.

1: do not put more chemical in than necessary.. a bit more is fine but don't fill it to top as you remove the air which travels when inverted and ensures you get your agitation.

2: after returning to upright again, hold it a few seconds to ensure the bulk of the chemical drains back down and then give the base of the tank a good hard bang on a firm surface to drive off any bubbles that may have settled on the film surface. As these bubbles mean no development is taking place at the contact point and can lead to little spots the odd time, these especially show up when doing large darkroom enlargements. This bubble prevention method especially applies to the likes of Stand Development or low agiatation processes, with those I tend to give a few sharp bangs to be sure to be sure.

Hope this helps add to the already great advice.

jpb1974

Rodinal - TMAX 400 - Stirred, not shaken



The results from 'stirring only' were inconsistent. There were streaks on the film, not totally visible in his 500px version but if you look at the larger version you'll see a streak on the left side centre of the dial (by the 24) which is continued on the right side at the edge.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5175/5470136733_99a6817d0f_o.jpg

Next order I place with Maco I'm going to try an AP tank.

Thanks everyone.

DaireQuinlan

jpb1974 wrote: »

Rodinal - TMAX 400 - Stirred, not shaken



The results from 'stirring only' were inconsistent. There were streaks on the film, not totally visible in his 500px version but if you look at the larger version you'll see a streak on the left side centre of the dial (by the 24) which is continued on the right side at the edge.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5175/5470136733_99a6817d0f_o.jpg

Next order I place with Maco I'm going to try an AP tank.

Thanks everyone.

They actually look more like newton rings. When you were scanning this (assuming you were scanning it), did you scan it on a flatbed ? did the neg bow in the middle and touch the glass ?

jpb1974

They actually look more like newton rings. When you were scanning this (assuming you were scanning it), did you scan it on a flatbed ? did the neg bow in the middle and touch the glass ?

It was scanned on a flatbed but I'm pretty sure that the negs were fine in the holder and wouldn't have touched the glass.

I haven't seen streak like these ones before... but they weren't consistent across the entire roll.

DaireQuinlan

jpb1974 wrote: »

It was scanned on a flatbed but I'm pretty sure that the negs were fine in the holder and wouldn't have touched the glass.

I haven't seen streak like these ones before... but they weren't consistent across the entire roll.

I've screwed up a few scans just like this, 120 in my case as I scan all my 35mm on my coolscan. It's almost certainly newton rings. I'll bet you any money* that if you take a loupe to that neg you won't see any sign of them. These wouldn't be consistent across the roll because it depends on the individual strip and how it's mounted and whether or not it's touching the glass. At the very least, try taking it out of the holder and putting it back in, or put it in upside down or backwards or something, and scan again. Chances are you'll see a different pattern of streaks.

I've also scanned occasionally flat on the glass, emulsion side down, the roughness of the emulsion on B&W films seems to get around the problem of newton rings. Dunno if that'd work with whatever scanner you're using.


*by which I mean 50c at most. Naturally I could be completely wrong :eek:

jpb1974

Drat... I've never had a Newton's ring in my life... and then the one day I scan expecting streaks I get Newton's ring(s). What are the chances eh?

DaireQuinlan

jpb1974 wrote: »

Drat... I've never had a Newton's ring in my life... and then the one day I scan expecting streaks I get Newton's ring(s). What are the chances eh?

Just (rather rudely) running quickly through your photostream, this one popped out as well ...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nfl-fan/5363543948/

Left hand side, classic newton rings.
What scanner are you using ? Looks like whatever it is every now and again the film bends down ever so slightly and touches the glass. Just something to make sure it's not doing when you're doing a scan.

jpb1974

Feck.. you're right... and I am wrong (not often you'll seen anyone admit their wrong on an internet forum )

I probably never took much notice of that neg for the simple reason that it was just a tester from a new (old) camera and a film I'd never used before.

So Newton's Rings aside my stir not shaken seems to have worked fairly well!

tvm!

Edit: Epson V500 is the scanner. Cheers