Knockdown Irish property . . . .

Jesus Wept

They look piss poor value. A few more photos might help (though not them perhaps).
Can't see a one bed in D8 getting 950pm rent either.

Snakeblood

Graces7 wrote: »

In the meantime what happens to the tenants living in rented accommodation who are already in poverty?

They'll tell their landlord that they can't pay the rent as the rent allowance is dropped. Some landlords will accomodate them by cutting the rent and some won't. Then they move out if they have to, and find somewhere new to live that's within what they can afford. Which might not be too different as rent will have found a new floor, and landlords will have to adjust to the new reality if they want to rent their property.

It's tough that people have to move, but they in all likelihood will find somewhere to live, and everyone will be better off apart from the Landlords, who were in receipt of a stipend from the government despite not producing anything.

Lyn256

Properties are now on daft

http://www.daft.ie/allsopspace/

The Rooster

I went to a viewing of some of the Dublin apartments on this list. What surprised me was the positiviety of other viewers. They reckon these are real bargains, but that the final auction prices will exceed the maximum reserves.

It will certainly be interesting to see what happens on auction day. If most sell, it'll be a decent indicator of the floor. If most don't, then it'll be anybody's guess where the floor will end up.

super_furry

Isn't this 'maximum reserve' thing a massive red hearing? It's still a reserve bellow which the property will not be sold and they're getting a hell of a lot of free publicity off the back of it, when in reality there's very little difference between this and any other property auciton.

Treehouse72

The Rooster wrote: »

If most sell, it'll be a decent indicator of the floor. If most don't, then it'll be anybody's guess where the floor will end up.

The Irish Central bank already have a firm opinion on this matter.

The Rooster

super_furry wrote: »

Isn't this 'maximum reserve' thing a massive red hearing? It's still a reserve bellow which the property will not be sold and they're getting a hell of a lot of free publicity off the back of it, when in reality there's very little difference between this and any other property auciton.

Well, a lot of auctions don't let you know what the reserve is (sometimes the auctioneer will announce there'll definitely be a sale now, when the bidding has breached the reserve).

In this case, they are not going to announce the actual reserve either, but as they say in the blurb, the benefit of announcing a max reserve is that you know if you are the highest bidder and you've reached the max reserve, you definitely win. And the max reserves are pitched quite low. Whether low enough is for each individual to decide, but regarding the Dublin apartments they are roughly at 50% of what the asking price was for those apartments previously. And they seem to be pitched a good bit lower than most other apartments you'll find on daft.ie, etc.

84 properties is a very big auction, so it deserves the publicity IMO. There will be no pre-auction sales, so the really good thing is we'll all get to see exactly how much each property is sold for (and also we'll know which properties didnt get sufficient bids to make a sale).

djmcr

jetski wrote: »

@ WalterMitty (appropriate name btw) - I suggest you read this.

Daft.ie report based on asking rents only

Mr. Loverman

The Rooster wrote: »

What surprised me was the positiviety of other viewers. They reckon these are real bargains

As they say, there's one born every minute...

Idbatterim

these idiots reckon that the "maximum reserve" is a bargain? lets see what they actually go for, and when they do sell, god knows what you may pick them up for in a year or two! I wonder are these potential "canny investors" the same ones who paid roughly 500k for a 2 bed in the likes of Sandyford, Dundrum or city centre not too long ago! Id say alot of people just cant hold their nerve and wait, the more that do this, the more prices will drop, opposite of what happened on way up with prices... Their fantastic logic no doubt, is that it used to cost X, it now costs less at Y, why it must be a bargain...

Snakeblood

The Rooster wrote: »

I went to a viewing of some of the Dublin apartments on this list. What surprised me was the positiviety of other viewers. They reckon these are real bargains, but that the final auction prices will exceed the maximum reserves.

It will certainly be interesting to see what happens on auction day. If most sell, it'll be a decent indicator of the floor. If most don't, then it'll be anybody's guess where the floor will end up.

I don't think that it'll indicate the floor in the current circumstances. Things are getting worse, not better, and prices will continue to slide until nama implodes or explodes or whatever it's going to do. The uncertainty is going to remain.

Theboinkmaster

Snakeblood wrote: »

I don't think that it'll indicate the floor in the current circumstances. Things are getting worse, not better, and prices will continue to slide until nama implodes or explodes or whatever it's going to do. The uncertainty is going to remain.

I agree - we're nowhere near the 'floor' and whatever these sell at is irrelevant to this.

scobysnacks

Having lived in Australia for the last four years I can confirm that Ireland is way cheaper in every way especially rent and house prices. I was paying $2,000 a month for a crappy two bed unit in a Sydney getto and it was considered a bargain (50 people applied for the same place). Costs for a similar place in Bondi beach (quite a few roads back from any sea view) were in the region of $700 per week!

Ireland is supost to be a first world country but the house prices are now similar to Brazil (where they earn a third of what Irish do and have interest rates of 17% on a mortgage). I've also seen house prices in Thailand that cost a lot more then Dublin.

I've heard people saying 150k is too much for a three bedroom house in an OK area in Dublin. No builder can produce a property for that price. So what do people think the floor will actually be? 10k for a house? Is Ireland back in the third world? I know we got ripped off in the past but now Ireland is a bargain basement. Surely with the mentality of wanting everything for nothing is not a good thing. How can we ever pull ourselves out of recession with that attitude?

gurramok

scobysnacks wrote: »

Having lived in Australia for the last four years I can confirm that Ireland is way cheaper in every way especially rent and house prices. I was paying $2,000 a month for a crappy two bed unit in a Sydney getto and it was considered a bargain (50 people applied for the same place). Costs for a similar place in Bondi beach (quite a few roads back from any sea view) were in the region of $700 per week!

Ireland is supost to be a first world country but the house prices are now similar to Brazil (where they earn a third of what Irish do and have interest rates of 17% on a mortgage). I've also seen house prices in Thailand that cost a lot more then Dublin.

I've heard people saying 150k is too much for a three bedroom house in an OK area in Dublin. No builder can produce a property for that price. So what do people think the floor will actually be? 10k for a house? Is Ireland back in the third world? I know we got ripped off in the past but now Ireland is a bargain basement. Surely with the mentality of wanting everything for nothing is not a good thing. How can we ever pull ourselves out of recession with that attitude?

Show us some stats and links. Dublin is not comparable to Sydney where the latter is a major world city.

Where are these 'cheap rents and house prices' in this 'bargain basement' of Dublin?

Kamellia

@scobysnacks
Are you being sarcastic? Put it this way. I'm on 37k a year (distinctly average). If I had a mortgage of 150k over 30 years and interest rates were at your Brazilian rate of 17%, my repayments would be 2138euro per month - that's almost my entire take-home pay after tax! (Figures based on Karl's Mortgage Calculator http://www.drcalculator.com/mortgage/ie/) Even if interest rates reached 10% here (quite possible), my repayments would still be 1316euro per month, which personally, would be over the limit of affordability for me.

Going back on topic - presumably the prospective buyers at this auction will already have finance in place (cash or mortgage approval) if they are to place bids on any of the property for sale here? Otherwise, the winning bidder may find later down the line that they can't get mortgage approval (as is the case for many buyers today), the sale falls through and the property is back on the line again. This must be a contributing factor in the final outcome of this auction.

The Rooster

Kamellia wrote: »

@scobysnacks
Presumably the prospective buyers at this auction will already have finance in place (cash or mortgage approval) if they are to place bids on any of the property for sale here? Otherwise, the winning bidder may find later down the line that they can't get mortgage approval (as is the case for many buyers today), the sale falls through and the property is back on the line again. This must be a contributing factor in the final outcome of this auction.

You need to have finance in place before you bid. You cannot bid "subject to mortgage approval" or "subject to contract" or "subject to survey". When the hammer falls you own the property and, for example, its your obligation to insure it from that moment.

10% of the funds are paid over on the day and the balance has to be paid within something like 5 weeks I think.

Interesting to hear the almost overwhelming negativity on this thread about the auction. Have people got an opinion on how low would prices have to go before there is value, or are people not even looking at the prices but just have the view that prices have to still go down?

The Dublin apartments on show certainly arent prime location. They're Dublin 1 and Dublin 8, but still a short walk to city centre. The maximum reserves are€100k for 1 beds and €120k-€140k for 2 beds. All come furnished and with one parking space I believe. About half have sitting tenants on one year leases with annual rents of about €9k for 1 bed and €11k or €12k for 2 beds, as far as I remember. Service/mgt charges are in the region of €1500 I believe.

scobysnacks

This is a good site to compare costs of living.

www.numbeo.com

My husbands city which is Porto Alegre in Brazil is a good example. It's the same size as Dublin, not a major city. In fact not even a capital city, although food is cheaper, which is to be expected given that we have to import a lot, clothes are way more expensive and property is a little more too, given the average wage.

That is true about Brazilian interest rates, hence why most people rent. Also they slap 70% - 100% on imports. Laptops and electronics cost twice as much as Ireland so they have to pay for everything over ten months.

Yes, we are more expensive in some things, but we earn a lot more. If you want our wages to half (which they will if people continue to stop buying) then yes prices will drop but given our wages, the prices are normal.

When I went to Sydney I had to take a drop in wages and only after four years was earning the same as I was in Dublin but I was paying twice as much for everything for example:

2 litres of milk $5
12 eggs $4
Loaf of bread $5
Bus ticket city to Bondi $3.20
Taxi - same distance as Dublin 2 - 4 $40
Glass of wine $10 -$12
Cocktails - $17
Meal for two in cheapo Asian place ,( no drinks, 2 mains and starter to share )- $60
Flights to Dublin with Eithad $2,600, same flight from Dublin to Sydney costs 1,000 Euro

Check out this website to get idea of the rents. That's just a guide as usually you have to offer the landlord more to secure the unit. Just bare in mind that the $300 a week places would be absolute cockroach and mould infested kips that you couldn't swing a cat in.

http://www.domain.com.au/Search/rent/State/NSW/Area/Eastern-Suburbs/Suburb/Bondi-Beach/?ssubs=1&bedrooms=1

I went out for dinner in Dublin to an amazing French restaurant, had two courses including Duck with great French wine for 30 Euro. I couldn't believe it. The quality of the food, the price and service were outstanding. I could never have afforded that in Sydney. It would have set me back at least $100 but probably more.

I also went to a pub in central Dublin, a nice one too, where all the beers and cocktails were a fiver. That was a Saturday night.

Sorry guys but if nobody gets off their backside and starts spending and supporting Irish businesses we will never recover.

super_furry

Interesting that you mention Australia as I, and many others, believe that right now they’re in the exact same place as we were in 2007.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_property_bubble

scobysnacks

Property prices are less than 20% overvalued at the moment. In fact compare to most countries Irish people are currently emigrating to such as Canada, the UK, NZ and Australia we are affordable:

http://www.economist.com/node/18285595

Interestingly so, there is lots of press in Australia about how the bubble will never burst..... in fact the press very similar to Ireland around 2007 (low unemployment, low interest rates etc). My Australian friends are paying around $800,000 - $900,000 for their first apartment on interest rates of 8 %.... it's crazy

Idbatterim

Syndney is not a major world city! what the deal with massive prices there? same as here probably, not enough land! Were a regular hong kong here!

Snakeblood

The Rooster wrote: »

You need to have finance in place before you bid. You cannot bid "subject to mortgage approval" or "subject to contract" or "subject to survey". When the hammer falls you own the property and, for example, its your obligation to insure it from that moment.

10% of the funds are paid over on the day and the balance has to be paid within something like 5 weeks I think.

Interesting to hear the almost overwhelming negativity on this thread about the auction. Have people got an opinion on how low would prices have to go before there is value, or are people not even looking at the prices but just have the view that prices have to still go down?

The Dublin apartments on show certainly arent prime location. They're Dublin 1 and Dublin 8, but still a short walk to city centre. The maximum reserves are€100k for 1 beds and €120k-€140k for 2 beds. All come furnished and with one parking space I believe. About half have sitting tenants on one year leases with annual rents of about €9k for 1 bed and €11k or €12k for 2 beds, as far as I remember. Service/mgt charges are in the region of €1500 I believe.

I'm looking at it from the perspective that the avge. industrial wage is 35 thousand, and what the repayments for a 1 or 2 bed would be over 25 years, adding to that the dismal economic outlook, poor job prospects, the likelihood of Nama releasing properties onto the market cheaper, the likelhood of people who bought houses in the last 10 years going completely bankrupt/fleeing the country and their houses being sold for what the banks, who are desperate for cash, can get. Plus anticipating the removal of Rent allowance, or the dramatic reduction thereof, which is subsidising the landlord market.

djmcr

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

As they say, there's one born every minute...

Maybe strategically placed staff to create that impression of positivety

McTigs

scobysnacks wrote: »

This is a good site to compare costs of living.

www.numbeo.com

My husbands city which is Porto Alegre in Brazil is a good example. It's the same size as Dublin, not a major city. In fact not even a capital city, although food is cheaper, which is to be expected given that we have to import a lot, clothes are way more expensive and property is a little more too, given the average wage.

That is true about Brazilian interest rates, hence why most people rent. Also they slap 70% - 100% on imports. Laptops and electronics cost twice as much as Ireland so they have to pay for everything over ten months.

Yes, we are more expensive in some things, but we earn a lot more. If you want our wages to half (which they will if people continue to stop buying) then yes prices will drop but given our wages, the prices are normal.

When I went to Sydney I had to take a drop in wages and only after four years was earning the same as I was in Dublin but I was paying twice as much for everything for example:

2 litres of milk $5
12 eggs $4
Loaf of bread $5
Bus ticket city to Bondi $3.20
Taxi - same distance as Dublin 2 - 4 $40
Glass of wine $10 -$12
Cocktails - $17
Meal for two in cheapo Asian place ,( no drinks, 2 mains and starter to share )- $60
Flights to Dublin with Eithad $2,600, same flight from Dublin to Sydney costs 1,000 Euro

Check out this website to get idea of the rents. That's just a guide as usually you have to offer the landlord more to secure the unit. Just bare in mind that the $300 a week places would be absolute cockroach and mould infested kips that you couldn't swing a cat in.

http://www.domain.com.au/Search/rent/State/NSW/Area/Eastern-Suburbs/Suburb/Bondi-Beach/?ssubs=1&bedrooms=1

I went out for dinner in Dublin to an amazing French restaurant, had two courses including Duck with great French wine for 30 Euro. I couldn't believe it. The quality of the food, the price and service were outstanding. I could never have afforded that in Sydney. It would have set me back at least $100 but probably more.

I also went to a pub in central Dublin, a nice one too, where all the beers and cocktails were a fiver. That was a Saturday night.

Sorry guys but if nobody gets off their backside and starts spending and supporting Irish businesses we will never recover.

Well i don't what's happened in Australia cos when i was there in 98 everything, absolutely everything, was cheaper than here.

Houses, rent, beer, eating out (especially eating out), clothes, public transport was shag all, supermarket shopping.

I remember being astounded at how much further money went there than here. Seems to me like australia has allowed property prices and general inflation to get completely out of control.

Maybe they're in for a soft landing too

Treehouse72

^^ Erm, if you look at that site Dublin is the most expensive city listed - including NYC, London and Sydney. What am I missing here?

desertcircus

Rent is the only thing showing higher in Sydney than in Dublin - which isn't a huge shock, given that Australia seems to be in the middle of a bubble and we're in the middle of a post-bubble crash.

Berlin, however, is looking more attractive by the day. The average wage is 23% lower and they're still enjoying higher purchasing power. If I could get anything approaching my current salary - and could speak better German...