The Libyan uprising

mike65

Ah crusades being invoked, they must be desperate.

Killer Pigeon

mike65 wrote: »

The are going to force a Win 98 update?

Communications jamming ...

metrovelvet

Why are we getting involved in this? Doesnt the arab world between Egypt and Saudi have enough military power to do this?

Killer Pigeon

For people who want to see this from pro-Gaddafi TV (live stream);

http://en.ljbc.net/live-streaming/link.htm

http://en.ljbc.net/live-streaming/shababya.html

http://en.ljbc.net/live-streaming/allibya.html

Burnt

phosphate wrote: »

... and you think the no-fly zone is to protect libyan people?

it's amazing how stupid people can be.

phosphate; would you mind sharing with us, what you believe, the objectives of the no fly zone are? 3-5 Salient points should be sufficient.

Killer Pigeon

mike65 wrote: »

Ah crusades being invoked, they must be desperate.

Hmmm, French crusades eh?

mike65

metrovelvet wrote: »

Why are we getting involved in this? Doesnt the arab world between Egypt and Saudi have enough military power to do this?

There are Arab "partners", not the Saudis of course as they are busy killing people in Bahrain at the moment. I really don't think getting Eygpt involved militarily would be clever. They have only just had their own revolution and getting the current ruling body (the army) involved could be messy.

CiaranC

metrovelvet wrote: »

Why are we getting involved in this? Doesnt the arab world between Egypt and Saudi have enough military power to do this?

Whats this "we" business?

Killer Pigeon

PENTAGON: 110 tomahawk missiles launched from US & UK naval warships in the Mediterranean Sea targeted mainly on over 20 Libyan air defense position, radar positions & fuel dumps on the western coast of Libya. Missiles were launched after French air attack. No US aircraft are operating in Libya yet.

Exile 1798

Here is a link to Libya Al-Hurra, an Internet TV Station set up during the uprising. It streams footage and commentary from Benghazi. It's founder, Mohammad Nabbous, was reportedly shot dead by Gadafhi's forces today

http://www.livestream.com/libya17feb

mike65

I imagine this is already under attack 32°19'3.49"N 15° 3'46.47"E

OS119

metrovelvet wrote: »

Why are we getting involved in this? Doesnt the arab world between Egypt and Saudi have enough military power to do this?

a well known phrase or saying involving the words 'Christmas' and 'Turkeys'...

metrovelvet

mike65 wrote: »

There are Arab "partners", not the Saudis of course as they are busy killing people in Bahrain at the moment. I really don't think getting Eygpt involved militarily would be clever. They have only just had their own revolution and getting the current ruling body (the army) involved could be messy.

Surely the Arab world should be dealing with this.

Ok so there is basically a civil war going on in Libya. And now western forces have intervened in the war? But the US and allies have not technically at war with Libya? Anyone know if US congress approved this involvement?

Where are the 'no blood for oil' signs out yet or any red headed birkenstock wearers down in shannon when you need them?

Killer Pigeon

Libyan SPOKESPERSON in Tripoli:

Libya is "facing a barbaric and armed attack". "Some Western countries" have caused "real harm against civilian targets and buildings". There are a "great number of civilian injured" and "hospitals are filling up with civilian casualties".

MIN2511

Who the hell does Nicolas Sarkozy think he is - invading Libya

ei.sdraob

metrovelvet wrote: »

Saudi have enough military power to do this?

The irony of one oppressive regime fighting another?

metrovelvet

MIN2511 wrote: »

Who the hell does Nicolas Sarkozy think he is - invading Libya

War criminal?

Any day now... we'll start seeing the t-shirts....

Killer Pigeon

metrovelvet wrote: »

War criminal?

Any day now... we'll start seeing the t-shirts....

I can see them now:

Sarkozy,
Je pète dans
votre direction
générale!

Wolfe Tone

So, is this gonna be another Iraq?

Killer Pigeon

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

So, is this gonna be another Iraq?

Not likely, more like another Operation Desert Storm.

metrovelvet

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Not likely, more like another Operation Desert Storm.

You mean Gulf War 1 which left things unfinished.... only for years later to have Gulf war 2....which is still leaving things unfinished...

karma_

Denerick wrote: »

I'm glad we've learnt the lessons of Yugoslavia and Rwanda.

Forgive me for being skeptical that any lessons have been learnt at all.

AlekSmart

What particularly interests me is the swashbuckling Tornado waving being carried on by our Imperial neighbours when,just over a month ago they were embarking upon one of the largest demilitarization campaigns ever instituted.

Where the fcU*k is Her Majesty`s Government going to find the funding to embark on yet another campaign to impose order upon fuzzy-wuzzy tribals in far flung corners of former empire ?

This latest Libyan situation just does`nt sit right with me at all.

For sure there are domestic security issues,many of which will present a Westerner with serious comprehension issues.

I`m also struck by the relative ease with which Western Media have moved around within the hot-zones of the country and the availability of the Ghaddafi clan to the same media.

Is there anybody suggesting oul Muammar is some kind of Saint ?

I would appreciate anybody pointing me in the direction of a modern Middle Eastern country which does`nt have religious or tribal dissent constantly running alongside what we would consider "normal" public administration.

Call me an oul cynic,but I find EU/American declarations about "Protecting the Libyan People" sticking in my throat when put alongside the same alliance`s total indifference to the real quantifiable savagery and rapaciousness of Robert Mugabe`s administration...or is it that Zimbabwean People are somehow not deserving of their protection..?

Leave the Libyan`s to sort out their own differences,which they most assuredly will,or at least allow the rest of the Arab world already "protected" to get back to it`s own normality before embarking on yet another mad crusade. :mad:

Killer Pigeon

metrovelvet wrote: »

You mean Gulf War 1 which left things unfinished.... only for years later to have Gulf war 2....which is still leaving things unfinished...

Basically. It could even be a lot less significant. I can't see any Western forces, including America, committing to such a large military operation as Gulf War 1 & 2, the 2003 Iraq War or Afghanistan.

metrovelvet

Im am seriously confused by all of this. As far as I am aware, landing missiles is declaring war. We have 112 tomohawks at about 500k each aimed at Libya. People, including the American media wanted to impeach Bush for going to war without Congressional approval. No such thing for Obama.

Why is it that Obama and the US are part of this, pushed for it in teh UN [well Hilary did] when Libya is no direct threat to the US [same complaints people made about Bush and Iraq- it was no direct threat- why did we go in?] My suspicion is Obama is doing this for Internationalism.

Sarkozy can barely handle the muslims in his own country. What does he think he is doing with muslims in their own country?

And who are these rebels btw? Are they as bad or worse than Gaddafi? Do the allies know who they are helping.

I am very very confused by all of this.

AlekSmart

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Basically. It could even be a lot less significant. I can't see any Western forces, including America, committing to such a large military operation as Gulf War 1 & 2, the 2003 Iraq War or Afghanistan.

The only problem here is the sheer volatility of the region and it`s peoples.

This volatility has,on so many occasions in the past,caught out "Infidels" and resulted in long term engagements which usually ended in expensive stalemate.

Once we (Westerners) managed to get all of our ex-pat`s out of the conflict zone (which the same ex-pats had little difficulty entering in the first place) then it was time to retire to the verandah with an iced-tea and observe things for a bit....;)

Metrovelvet:And who are these rebels btw? Are they as bad or worse than Gaddafi? Do the allies know who they are helping.

A very good question which I`ll wager few of the Western administrations have asked....!

Killer Pigeon

metrovelvet wrote: »

Im am seriously confused by all of this. As far as I am aware, landing missiles is declaring war. We have 112 tomohawks at about 500k each aimed at Libya. People, including the American media wanted to impeach Bush for going to war without Congressional approval. No such thing for Obama.

Why is it that Obama and the US are part of this, pushed for it in teh UN [well Hilary did] when Libya is no direct threat to the US [same complaints people made about Bush and Iraq- it was no direct threat- why did we go in?] My suspicion is Obama is doing this for Internationalism.

Sarkozy can barely handle the muslims in his own country. What does he think he is doing with muslims in their own country?

And who are these rebels btw? Are they as bad or worse than Gaddafi? Do the allies know who they are helping.

I am very very confused by all of this.

It's for the oil, end of. The decision makers in the West couldn't give a fiddlers about welfare of the people in Libya (even though that genuinely is a issue) or the caliber of 'rebels'. Why isn't the West getting involved in other areas of the world where human rights are at stake? Simple, because they'll get nothing much in return for their help. I think that the people of Libya are lucky that they live on a territory that has trillions of dollars worth of oil. It they didn't have such resources then the West wouldn't act as swiftly.

ei.sdraob

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

It's for the oil, end of

There was no oil in Serbia, yet there was airstrikes, how do you square that circle?

Killer Pigeon

From skynews:

"Colonel Gaddafi threatens to attack civilian and military targets in Mediterranean."

I presume by targets in the Mediterranean he mean targets in Sicily, Cyrus, Spain, Corsica (France) and naval vessels. I really doubt that Gaddafi has ballistic missiles that could pose such a threat, pathetic bluffing probably, although he could have acquired some from the Soviets during the Cold War.

Killer Pigeon

ei.sdraob wrote: »

There was no oil in Serbia, yet there was airstrikes, how do you square that circle?

It happened a bit too close to Europe for comfort.