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The Libyan uprising

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    #62
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Whats happening with Gaddifi is a clear example of the problem with having an International Court of Justice (a noble aspiration though it is), If you have the it makes fleeing the country and not trying to hang onto power by any means possible much less appealing.


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    #63
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,405 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Also worrying is that he's surrounded by people who havent simply shot him in the face yet. He's surrounded by like minded individuals.


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    #64
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Overheal wrote: »
    Also worrying is that he's surrounded by people who havent simply shot him in the face yet. He's surrounded by like minded individuals.

    Yeah I was wondering about that. Amazing one of his own haven't done him in yet.

    Anyone see Wiliam Hague speak int he last hour on Sky news ? I reckon the Brits are planning to go in - if only to get there own citizens out


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    #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    Depressing reading

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12558066


    We in the West are so damn scared of Islamic governments and oil prices we don't care what kinda of absolute maniacs and savages we 'support'

    wtf for decades the "west" and Libya were enemies.....the place was bombed at one stage....

    get rid of dictators like Saddam and the Taliban and your a bad guy...
    open trade with them and improve relations (Mubarak and post 9/11 with Gadaffi) and your the bad guy??? You cant win....!

    Sanctions like in Iraq cost human lives, invading there and Afghanistan cost lives...leaving them be while Saddam committed genocide or like Gaddafi is about to and it will cost lives.

    There is no easy solution and no correct position to take. The UN needs to radically change to prevent things like Srebrenica occuring again


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    #66
    Jonny7
    Registered Users Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Deleted User wrote: »
    wtf for decades the "west" and Libya were enemies.....the place was bombed at one stage....

    And suddenly in 2003 he was a nice good guy, shaking hands with Burlesconi, everything fine again, lets do business. Same hideous torture, killings and human rights as 2002, but suddenly it was okay.. if you are friends with the West we'll ignore it.
    get rid of dictators like Saddam and the Taliban and your a bad guy...
    open trade with them and improve relations (Mubarak and post 9/11 with Gadaffi) and your the bad guy??? You cant win....!

    The Taliban were armed by us and tolerated by us for years, except when suddenly something happened to us that we didn't like.. then they were the enemy!

    Same with Saddam

    If you are friends with the West, do what you want, but if you turn on us.. uh oh you're into the black book again.. who's in there at mo by the way? Iran, North Korea..

    Sanctions like in Iraq cost human lives, invading there and Afghanistan cost lives...leaving them be while Saddam committed genocide or like Gaddafi is about to and it will cost lives.

    How about making a pincipled stand of not doing business with nasty dictators? how are we utterly against Gaddafi one second and totally with him another? he hasn't changed, yet our attitude does... based on what? thats right... friends with the West

    I said it before, its very simple

    We in the West are so damn scared of Islamic governments and oil prices we don't care what kinda of absolute maniacs and savages we 'support'

    I have no idea whats wrong with or untrue about that statement.. the only time since ww2 we've stepped in properly is for reasons of genocide.. on our soil.. not in Rwanda of course

    We will continue to tolerate these despots and princes and regimes as long as they are "on our side" ... as in aren't threatening us in any way

    They can of course do what they want with their own people, and we'll just let the amnesty and HR reports trickle out and be page 10 news

    Actually its because of this damned friends/enemies policy that we can't wade in post ww2 style and do anything about the current situation, in fact the only action we'll ever take is if the situation turns to complete genocide or we in the West are threatened in some way

    and we've led ourselves to this powerless situation

    We care more about the price of oil, and having non islamic style governments than we care about our principles of freedom and human rights for all...

    What is untrue or wrong about that statement?

    jaysus..


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    #67
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    How about making a pincipled stand of not doing business with nasty dictators? how are we utterly against Gaddafi one second and totally with him another? he hasn't changed, yet our attitude does... based on what? thats right... friends with the West


    your right in what you say except that if we dont do business with these countries and do what we did to Iraq with the sanctions then its the average person who suffers, the Iraqi people suffered terribly through the sanctions!! Saddam or Gaddafi would still sit in their palaces lapping it up while the average person was crippled

    Im just sayin the west cant win....! There is no bloodless solution because sanctions = death too!


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    #68
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    What's even funnier is he doesn't consider himself a leader. He considers himself a "Colonel of the Revolution"

    He even said

    "If I had a position to resign from i'd throw the resignation paper in your face, bacteria"

    He addressed the protestors as bacteria.


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    #69
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,405 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    He even said

    "If I had a position to resign from i'd throw the resignation paper in your face, bacteria"

    He addressed the protestors as bacteria.
    tony-montana.jpg

    tbh

    we know how this will end


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    #70
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    The man is off his head with power.

    Happy to see republicans have denounced him and called on him to step down.
    Not that it will make a shred bit of difference.


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    #71
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    I am not sure what the internatioanl community can do. I think the best course of action is to support the protesters in anyway that we can, to help them get rid of the mad man.


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    #72
    Mahatma coat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    Someone seriously needs to sit down with Gadaffi and have a little chat explainin Irony :rolleyes:

    He came to power all them years ago as a fresh faced and energetic young soldier who defected in the Ranks and lead a coup against a Power mad tyranical ruler who had become disconnected with reality.
    Gadaffi led a Popular people revolution, and is now about to be ousted and probably executed by one


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    #73
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    At last the UN take action!!!!!!
    BBC wrote:
    The UN has stripped Col Gaddafi's daughter Aisha of her role as a goodwill ambassador
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12564104

    Friggin ridiculous.
    I don't get it - why are they not imposing no fly zones at the very least ?


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    #74
    limklad
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭limklad


    caseyann wrote: »
    The man is off his head with power.

    Happy to see republicans have denounced him and called on him to step down.
    Not that it will make a shred bit of difference.
    To use this Analogy comes to mind here "Like the sinking ship, Rats abandon a sinking ship"
    The Republicians, Especially Bush Administration along with Blair helped to bring Gaddafi back into the International fold and allow their Weapons Industries to sell weapons to this mad man by removing the embargo. He is now using the same weapons against his own civilians.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,453024,00.html

    http://www.politicususa.com/en/stephen-moore-tells-hannity-liberals-are-gaddafi-supporters


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    #75
    limklad
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭limklad


    Mahatma coat wrote: »
    Someone seriously needs to sit down with Gadaffi and have a little chat explainin Irony :rolleyes:

    He came to power all them years ago as a fresh faced and energetic young soldier who defected in the Ranks and lead a coup against a Power mad tyranical ruler who had become disconnected with reality.
    Gadaffi led a Popular people revolution, and is now about to be ousted and probably executed by one
    What even more of an Irony, is that the protestors are flying the Country Royal Flag that Gadaffi overthrew.


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    #76
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Breaking news scroller on bbc website says he is now blaming al quieda (how the feck do you spell that ?)


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    #77
    rebel10
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭rebel10


    opinion guy wrote: »
    Breaking news scroller on bbc website says he is now blaming al quieda (how the feck do you spell that ?)
    I thought he was blaming them all along?:confused: No? I thought he was claiming that Al Qaeda would come in and take over if he was overthrown?


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    #78
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    limklad wrote: »
    To use this Analogy comes to mind here "Like the sinking ship, Rats abandon a sinking ship"
    The Republicians, Especially Bush Administration along with Blair helped to bring Gaddafi back into the International fold and allow their Weapons Industries to sell weapons to this mad man by removing the embargo. He is now using the same weapons against his own civilians.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,453024,00.html

    http://www.politicususa.com/en/stephen-moore-tells-hannity-liberals-are-gaddafi-supporters

    I did not mean those people sorry lol I meant Sinn Féin.
    The USA always always support people in their best interest and then change their tune when bad publicity for them especially were oil is concerned.


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    #79
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Hard to know what's going on. Most sites are saying Gadaffi still controls Tripoli through sheer force and a few towns in the centre of the country but not the east or the west. Also some tribal leaders and former govt officials(like justice minister) met to co-ordinate the rebellion, looks like they are planning to march on Tripoli with an army.

    Oh, they're saying the oil exports have been stopped as its in rebel hands. Wonder will that 'jumpstart' the international response to do something.


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    #80
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    gurramok wrote: »
    Hard to know what's going on. Most sites are saying Gadaffi still controls Tripoli through sheer force and a few towns in the centre of the country but not the east or the west. Also some tribal leaders and former govt officials(like justice minister) met to co-ordinate the rebellion, looks like they are planning to march on Tripoli with an army.
    Yeah sounds that way. But some family member of gadaffi just fled to Cairo. Rats beginning to abandon the sinking ship
    Oh, they're saying the oil exports have been stopped as its in rebel hands. Wonder will that 'jumpstart' the international response to do something.

    Hmm I doubt it. I've been wondering why the oil issue hasn't brought them running. I think there are a few reasons:
    1) US and UK already in Iraq and Afganistan - not got enough left over to go in
    2) They genuinely seemed to be caught on the hop and don't know what to do
    3) There is probably some nations in the UN meetings who won't get on board - China or Russia or someone like that. Which means then they would have to go in without UN sanction like Iraq - i.e. illegally, and we all know that doesn't bode well
    4) They are probably conscious, perhaps overly conscious, of being seen to interfere, after the fallout of Iraq
    5) They are probably very worried about contagion. If this violence spreads to other nations in the region are they going to be expected to go in there too ? Yemen, Bahrain, Saudi, Iran even ? I think they don't want to set a precedent they can't follow up on.

    Ironically enough the "West" are kinda damned if the do go in, damned if they don't kind of thing.


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    #81
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    The west will get their people out and let the whole thing work itself out. No point getting involved at the moment.


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    #82
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    gurramok wrote: »
    Hard to know what's going on. Most sites are saying Gadaffi still controls Tripoli through sheer force and a few towns in the centre of the country but not the east or the west. Also some tribal leaders and former govt officials(like justice minister) met to co-ordinate the rebellion, looks like they are planning to march on Tripoli with an army.

    Oh, they're saying the oil exports have been stopped as its in rebel hands. Wonder will that 'jumpstart' the international response to do something.

    Oh if oil is being stopped,they will take their fingers out of their butts for definite.
    Should be interesting when he lets world press in tomorrow.


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    #83
    rebel10
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭rebel10


    caseyann wrote: »
    Oh if oil is being stopped,they will take their fingers out of their butts for definite.
    Should be interesting when he lets world press in tomorrow.
    Afaik, the world press started to gain entry last night. A good few images arriving from Banghazi on Al Jazeera.


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    #84
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    rebel10 wrote: »
    Afaik, the world press started to gain entry last night. A good few images arriving from Banghazi on Al Jazeera.

    I havent seen them,I have watched sky news most of day.And they said letting world press in tomorrow.
    I thought they were just phone footage and facebook things being shown.


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    #85
    rebel10
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭rebel10


    caseyann wrote: »
    I havent seen them,I have watched sky news most of day.And they said letting world press in tomorrow.
    I thought they were just phone footage and facebook things being shown.
    No, Al Jazeera have been reporting from there alright.


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    #86
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    rebel10 wrote: »
    No, Al Jazeera have been reporting from there alright.
    Al Jazeera are on sky digi 514. Have been watching it at lunch for the past few weeks. Video footage showed frontline action today at lunch, and yesterday as well.


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    #87
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    caseyann wrote: »
    The USA always always support people in their best interest and then change their tune when bad publicity for them especially were oil is concerned.
    No country does anything for another without something being in it for themselves.
    Not one.


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    #88
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    opinion guy wrote: »
    I don't get it - why are they not imposing no fly zones at the very least ?

    That doesn't seem very fair on members of the Libyan Air Force who want to tootle on over to Malta.

    NTM


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    #89
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    limklad wrote: »
    To use this Analogy comes to mind here "Like the sinking ship, Rats abandon a sinking ship"
    The Republicians, Especially Bush Administration along with Blair helped to bring Gaddafi back into the International fold and allow their Weapons Industries to sell weapons to this mad man by removing the embargo. He is now using the same weapons against his own civilians.

    What weapons have the Americans sold Libya which are being used against Libyan civilians?

    Only reason I ask is that I went looking to see if the American arms embargo against Libya was still in place, and it appears that it still is. Non-lethal stuff may be sold, granted, but that doesn't mean it has been.

    The EU lifted its arms embargo in 2004 mainly at Italian request, not British.

    NTM


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    #90
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    JustinDee wrote: »
    No country does anything for another without something being in it for themselves.
    Not one.

    AND? Whole different ball game area you are talking about JustinDee.


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    #91
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    caseyann wrote: »
    AND? Whole different ball game area you are talking about JustinDee.
    No it isn't. Its the basis of any foreign policy.


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