Defacing my property? Not providing a service? :(

AMPSound

Well firstly, I need to apologise for the delay in an update to this post - I had kinda forgotten about it... Until this morning when I got a letter bearing the NCPS logo on the top..... It went something like this:

In response to your letter regarding the appeal relating to the above serial number, we are pleased to inform you that your appeal has been successful.

Please note that we have refunded your Laser card with the amount of €125.

We strive to portray our company in the highest professional standard through continuous in-house staff training in procedures and customer relations however given the pressures of our business not all matters are dealt with how we would always like them to be. We are responsible for the actions of our employees and therefore we apologise for any upset or inconvenience caused.

NCPS now consider this matter to be closed.

All I can say is:

Opinicus

nice one!!!

StaticNoise

Bravo OP, bravo.
You tell 'em!

I would kill to have seen this thread discussed in After Hours, however!

Our man in Havana

It wouldn't be discussed for starters.

Fair play to the OP.

StaticNoise

Bravo OP, bravo.
You tell 'em!

I would kill to have seen this thread discussed in After Hours, however!

PyeContinental

Wow! Congratulations!
Well done for standing up for yourself, and setting a precedent for others to follow and refer to. Thanks for coming back to update the thread and let us know.

I wonder could you scan the letter and attach it, just to have irrefutable evidence of this for any of the Doubting Thomases?

BrianD

Nothing like getting a refund from the clampers. Got a refund from NCPS a few years ago labelled of course with "without prejudice".

Personally, I think clamping is a necessary evil and have no problem with it. What does get me is the lack of standards within the industry.

Clearly, the clampers should have removed the stickers and didn't - otherwise they wouldn't have sent a crew back to do it.

There's also due process that needs to be followed. I notices that many DSPS clampers clamp the car and then go back to the van and print out the documentation. Surely you should get the ticket first followed by the clamp? If the clampers had to suddenly go somewhere else your left with a clamp and no notice.

Resend

Del2005 wrote: »

NCPS are a private company and they are operating on shady legal ground as it is by clamping, once they move someone car it's theft and there's no gray area there.

why does no one ever sue them. If one was clamped what grounds would one take the case on?
Will this work in a hospital car park? the hosp employ the clampers

Our man in Havana

You would have to sue both clampers and hospital.

People do sue. Generally they will fold once they realise the claimant is serious.

MagicSean

As already discussed here, the clampers on private property are basically charging you for the service of removing the clamp. They dont have the power to fine you. If you can remove the clamp without damaging it there is nothing they can do. The current grey area is wether they have the power to clamp you in the first place. There are arguments for and against. Hopefully legislation will be passed soon to clarify this issue.

Rented Mule

This has been my favourite story of the week (beside the Usama bin Laden conspiracy theory thread) !!

Well done OP !!!

Fight the Power !!

ajraf

Brilliant story!!! Keep us updated on it!! I love arguing with aragont companies like that! My friend just cut the clamp off with an angle grinder the next day. He got away with it! that was a year ago! :P

Resend

Our man in Havana wrote: »

You would have to sue both clampers and hospital.

People do sue. Generally they will fold once they realise the claimant is serious.

thanks . what grounds would you sue the hosp on?

I t would be an interesting social experiment if a bunch of people pooled cash, got a clamp on private property and went to court.......

Our man in Havana

thanks . what grounds would you sue the hosp on?

On the basis that they hired the clampers and are responsible for their actions.

The hospital knew or ought to have known that the clamping was unlawful.

StupidLikeAFox

Hey guys, I did a bit of digging here and came across this, Section 113 of the Road Traffic Act

113.—(1) A person shall not, without lawful authority or reasonable cause, interfere or attempt to interfere with the mechanism of a mechanically propelled vehicle while it is stationary in a public place, or get on or into or attempt to get on or into the vehicle while it is so stationary.


(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.


(3) Where a member of the Garda Síochána has reasonable grounds for believing that a person is committing an offence under this section, he may arrest the person without warrant.


(4) This section shall not apply to a person taking, in relation to a mechanically propelled vehicle which is obstructing his lawful ingress or egress to or from any place, such steps as are reasonably necessary to move the vehicle by human propulsion for a distance sufficient to terminate the obstruction.


(5) Where a person is charged with an offence under this section, it shall be a good defence to the charge for him to show that, when he did the act alleged to constitute the offence, he believed, and had reasonable grounds for believing, that he had lawful authority for doing that act.

Thats interesting, but it does say in a public place. Would you get anywhere by ringing the guards if you were clamped?

We have clampers in our estate who clamp you i you havent paid the management fee, would the road outside the house be considered a public place or is it private property? Also if it is private property, does the owner of the house not own it or does the management company have a right to employ the clampers?

BrianD

ColHol wrote: »

Hey guys, I did a bit of digging here and came across this, Section 113 of the Road Traffic Act

Thats interesting, but it does say in a public place. Would you get anywhere by ringing the guards if you were clamped?

We have clampers in our estate who clamp you i you havent paid the management fee, would the road outside the house be considered a public place or is it private property? Also if it is private property, does the owner of the house not own it or does the management company have a right to employ the clampers?

The answer might be in the first sentence "...without lawful authority or reasonable cause...". The clampers may be duly authorised by the management company to provide a clamping service.

The road outside your house may be a part of the development - is it a gated community or do you know if the road has been taken in hand by the local council?

As regards the parking spaces you need to check your contract. I'd imagine that if you bought a parking space, you have only bought the use of it. Having said that I don't know how they can clamp you if you've paid for the use of the space.

AMPSound

PyeContinental wrote: »

I wonder could you scan the letter and attach it, just to have irrefutable evidence of this for any of the Doubting Thomases?

The letter is word for word above, so there is no need to post a scan of it. However, if someone want's to fight something similar, I will email ya a copy! With case numbers etc etc etc

EDIT: Just read that properly - for doubting thomases - not for another NCPS fight! I will certainly pop a scan up now!

RATM

I'm pretty sure I heard a piece on the radio about the grey area of clamping on private property. The way it went was that the clampers aren't doing damage to your car so the law protects them to immobilse it (on some level at least). So now if you go and got an angle grinder and cut the clamp off the wheel they'd be perfectly within their rights to sue you for damaging their property.

However a convenient loopholes exists for those prepared to put some effort in. If you damage the clamp you're liable so running a similar trick to what 'Angle Grinder Man' in London is illegal as it damages property. But if you get out your wheel jack and (somehow) manage to get the wheel, clamp and all off without damaging it then your in the clear. After you've gotten the wheel off you'll have to put on your spare as the only way you'll ve able to get the clamp off your wheel is by letting the air out of it and then start wiggling until it falls off. If doing this its probably best to bring the clamp direct to the nearest Garda station in case the clampers tried to do you for theft. If you leave it loose on the roadside you might have a duty of care as it wouldn't be there except for your actions. Its a bit of hassle but its not €120 quids worth of hassle=)

MagicSean

The definition of a public place under the road traffic act also includes private property once the publics vehicles are given access to it.

djkavana

Hi,

I got clamped by the NCPS this morning after I rang up their control room last night at 1230 to say that their were no spots left in my estate. The guy on the phone said to park anywhere in the estate "out of the way" and that I would be good not to get clamped til the next day, so I did. Woke up this morning to find my car clamped (!), and after ringing the centre again today they said that even though they had told me it was okay to park the car there that I would still have to pay the fine to have it removed!

Yawns

Cut it off and dispose of the clamp. Ignore any and all forms of communication from them, it's been done to death. They won't chance taking you to court unless they can prove you did the criminal damage. If they threaten with criminal damage and the guards, tell them you know nothing about what they are talking about, you came out to your car, got in and drove away. There was no clamp. They need to prove you did any damage.

Angle grinder works fantastic and quick.

ANXIOUS

djkavana wrote: »

Hi,

I got clamped by the NCPS this morning after I rang up their control room last night at 1230 to say that their were no spots left in my estate. The guy on the phone said to park anywhere in the estate "out of the way" and that I would be good not to get clamped til the next day, so I did. Woke up this morning to find my car clamped (!), and after ringing the centre again today they said that even though they had told me it was okay to park the car there that I would still have to pay the fine to have it removed!

Cut it off.

ScouseMouse

What would happen if someone glued the lock, and then THEY had to cut it off......

Thinkingaboutit

County and City Councils are silly people. There are places that need special enforcement, but a lot of people are opting for out of town shopping rather than worrying about whether they left a meter a little short. Over enforcement is a poor idea. Good on OP.