The Story of Ireland

weeboab

V480 wrote: »

That's right, Connelly was born in Edinburgh, his father used to shovel ****e for a living, sorry I couldn't think of a more polite way of putting it. Isn't Billy Connelly of Irish parentage??

I missed the last few epsisodes so hopefully this will be repeated or released on dvd. It was a very well put together series in my view, though I know not everybody agrees on its content. The last episode was possibly the weakest of the ones I saw, though that's possibly because it focused on the period of Irish history I am most familiar with already.

James Connolly was born of 2 Irish immigrants from Monaghan.
Billy Connolly had Scottish parents, although his Grandfather was Irish.

sensibleken

A.Tomas wrote: »

This was such a terrible piece of tripe. Possibly the worst documentary on RTÉ ever?

Listen, believe what you read in your history books at school because that really happened.:cool:

Sigh

Fergal Keane OBE presents (badly) a highly edited, sanitised (didn't spend much time on the oul' Famine), inaccurate, cliché-ridden ( forced Irish, gaelic, catholic, inward looking sh1te) and above all pro-British view of Irish history.

Another unfortunately revisionist (they haven't gone away either you know)
lackey.

Anything in particular you had objections too? I am for one glad they didnt spend too long on the famine, they spent longer on that than they did on the norman invasion and the cromwellian campaign

MarchDub

Cynical Apathy wrote: »

There's a misconception among most "patriotic" Irish people that we were happy go lucky farmers living in bliss until the damned English came over and raped our grannies. When in fact 99% of the population were peasant slaves living in a feudal society under chieftains, provincial kings and high kings. Each one of these were as tyrannical as any British lord. The common Irish person had to do their willing, work their fingers to the bone, fight their wars all for a reward of food.

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Crickey! So much fail it's impossible to quantify! Buy yourself a history book on Gaelic Ireland, available in all book stores.

Agree Duckworth - from what we know of Ireland prior to the Norman invasion via the Law Tracts and the Irish Annals this thesis cannot be supported. Feudalism was unknown in Ireland and in fact this was one of the major stress points for the English crown as regards Ireland.

But the wider issue of any foreign invasion should not depend on the state - or perceived state - of any autonomous nation - or the propaganda supporting that invasion. In the case of Ireland we have to 'thank' Geraldus Cambrensis for this distortion of the state of Ireland.

If that were the case - i.e. invasions are less egregious if the invaded are determined to be 'savage' - we would be supporting invasions [including the invasion of Iraq] all over the world.

A.Tomas

sensibleken wrote: »

Anything in particular you had objections too? I am for one glad they didnt spend too long on the famine, they spent longer on that than they did on the norman invasion and the cromwellian campaign

hhhhmmmm... why indeed would a documentary on those cer-az-ay Irish for a British audience not want to deal with the issues of the Famine? I wonder?

Penfailed

A.Tomas wrote: »

hhhhmmmm... why indeed would a documentary on those cer-az-ay Irish for a British audience not want to deal with the issues of the Famine? I wonder?

...but it's not 'for a British audience'. It was/is broadcast on RTE and BBC NI.

sensibleken

A.Tomas wrote: »

hhhhmmmm... why indeed would a documentary on those cer-az-ay Irish for a British audience not want to deal with the issues of the Famine? I wonder?

they did deal with the famine. didnt you watch the programme?

A.Tomas

sensibleken wrote: »

they did deal with the famine. didnt you watch the programme?

Spent more time showing some eejit, trying to make a name for himself jumping on a now defunct bandwagon, staring ruefully into the distance than the famine.

It was not a very good programme.:cool:

sensibleken

A.Tomas wrote: »

Spent more time showing some eejit, trying to make a name for himself jumping on a now defunct bandwagon, staring ruefully into the distance than the famine.

It was not a very good programme.:cool:

So the answer is no then, youre not going to say what was specifically wrong with it. bandwagon?

A.Tomas

sensibleken wrote: »

So the answer is no then, youre not going to say what was specifically wrong with it. bandwagon?

As I mentioned earlier, it was a remedial, heavily edited and skimmed through "history of Ireland" full of clichés and inaccuracies. Read a your secondary school history book for a history of Ireland!


The fact that it cleary and quite happily had a pro-Britsh bias (it was Roy Foster's series really-look him up) almost gives it a credibility it does not deserve.

sensibleken

A.Tomas wrote: »

As I mentioned earlier, it was a remedial, heavily edited and skimmed through "history of Ireland" full of clichés and inaccuracies. Read a your secondary school history book for a history of Ireland!


The fact that it cleary and quite happily had a pro-Britsh bias (it was Roy Foster's series really-look him up) almost gives it a credibility it does not deserve.

What was inaccurate? What was cliched? It certainly was abreviated but 6000 years is a long time to compress into 4 hours.

Cynical Apathy

weeboab wrote: »

Was watching this tonight, and was very surprised to discover that James Connolly was in fact born in Glasgow!!!
Strange then that I used to live in the Cowgate area of Edinburgh, where the tenement block where I had a flat, actually had a plaque on the wall describing it as the birthplace of James Connolly. I must also inform my friends in the James Connolly Society in Edinburgh, that they are in fact marching in the wrong city to commemorate this great Scottish Socialist.

Maybe Feargal is thinking of that other great son of Scotland, Billy Connolly, who was in fact born in Glasgow, but maybe didn't have quite the same impact on workers rights?

I haven't seen that one yet. Connolly has to be the most underrated and under-discussed, true heroes of Irish History. All I know is that there is very little known about him. I have great respect for his Socialist views and seemingly Collins said he'd be willing to die for him.

boynesider

I have been watching the re-runs on RTE lately having missed it the first time and I have to say that it is absolutely terrible. Fergal Keane is a man who is clearly weighted down with his own prejudices and skewed interpretations of history so why on earth was he entrusted with such an important series?

The ones I have seen so far are not of an acceptable historical standard and are riddled with selectivity and straightforward lies. As usual there is nothing really glaringly obvious, but it is the small details which are revealing. It has a clear agenda to tell Irish history the way either the average British middle-class adult, or any of the multitude of apologists for British rule in ireland would like to see it.

Why is it so hard to make a decent documentary on Irish history? I don't think I have ever seen one which wasn't burdened by petty biases and insecurities.

Fratton Fred

boynesider wrote: »

I have been watching the re-runs on RTE lately having missed it the first time and I have to say that it is absolutely terrible. Fergal Keane is a man who is clearly weighted down with his own prejudices and skewed interpretations of history so why on earth was he entrusted with such an important series?

The ones I have seen so far are not of an acceptable historical standard and are riddled with selectivity and straightforward lies. As usual there is nothing really glaringly obvious, but it is the small details which are revealing. It has a clear agenda to tell Irish history the way either the average British middle-class adult, or any of the multitude of apologists for British rule in ireland would like to see it.

Why is it so hard to make a decent documentary on Irish history? I don't think I have ever seen one which wasn't burdened by petty biases and insecurities.

So in other words, it didn't support your view, so it was crap.

boynesider

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So in other words, it didn't support your view, so it was crap.

Eh, what??

Try reading the middle paragraph of what I wrote again, particularly the first line. I didn't think it was that hard to understand

Fratton Fred

boynesider wrote: »

Eh, what??

Try reading the middle paragraph of what I wrote again, particularly the first line. I didn't think it was that hard to understand

But you can't give any examples?

Two posters saying it was rubbish, but neither can say why. That sounds odd to me.

boynesider

Fratton Fred wrote: »

But you can't give any examples?

Two posters saying it was rubbish, but neither can say why. That sounds odd to me.

As I said it's the little things which in combination distort historical accuracy in order to create a distinctive narrative for whatever purposes. I would have to watch the episodes again and note down all the examples in order to give a comprehensive list, but I can assure you it is full of falsehoods and selectivity.

Off the top of my head from last night, the description of the Scullabogue massacre as sectarian and the constant, petty attempts to reduce Irish history to purely tribal lines. He even made the remarkable assertion that never again after 1798 would Protestants and Catholics be joined together in a separatist cause (truly bizarre, because only 5 years later we had Emmet, and then throughout the 19th Century an array of Protestants would lead both the peaceful Nationalist movement and the various violent uprisings).

I am no raving republican, and if someone made a programme distorting Irish history in order to suit a more nationalist agenda, I would criticize them just as much.

dmcronin

old hippy wrote: »

Lolz @ the mainland

Hate that term 'mainland'.... makes this place sound like a seagull-guano splattered Craggy Island.