Marseille vs Manchester United 23/2/11 Champions League last 16 match thread

LeeroyJones · 23-02-2011 10:34pm

Pro. F wrote: »

Gibson did almost nothing while he was on the pitch. He constantly hid from the ball when we were in possession, got caught in possession a good proportion of the times when he did receive it and did very little defensively.

Fletcher has given the ball away, but at least he has shown willing to get on it at times and done some work to try and win it back when we don't have it. I'm not saying that he has played well. He hasn't, but at least he has tried a bit, unlike Gibson.

LeeroyJones, the tactics have been changed around completely and Scholes is playing deeper than Gibson was.

Apart from thread Nani and JOS twice and another time for Berbatov?! Not his fault they weren't converted... Had they been you would have people harping on about the 'New Paul Scholes'(Which is nonesense but that's what happens in this day and age).

At the moment of his substitution Gibson had covered the same amount of grass as Fletcher (just above 9km) and was vastly more economical than Fletcher in possession as well as set up opportunities for JOS, Nani and Berb.

Could you point out where these new tactics have come from. The match is over now and the tempo remained the same from United since Scholes came on, and there were no new fresh movement from other areas of the park.

Fletcher remained a box-box midfielder making his tackles, Carrick remained looking for the ball and looking for passes and Scholes took up a slightly more advanced role..... where Gibson was!!!

Edit: Like for like does not mean 'as good as'...... rather they fit in a similar role in the general tactics

Ordinary man · 23-02-2011 10:36pm

Liam O wrote: »

Why should Gibson have had to do anything defensively? He kept attacking moves flowing only for the likes of Nani, Fletcher, Rooney and Berba to fcuk up. The amount of times United lost the ball tonight was deplorable and Gibson was the only one with decent ball retention.

Seriously, is he a relation of yours? Fletcher and carrick were poor again tonight and he still couldn't outshine them. Scholes did more and better than any of them when he came on and he's a 36 year old man getting ready for retirement:mad:

Pro. F · 23-02-2011 10:36pm

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Gibson was playing in an advanced role. Carrick was playing deep - he was the one who should have been picking up play from the centre backs, which he has of course failed to do.

Yes that is true. Carrick should have been doing that and, just like always, he failed miserably.

However, there were some short spells when United did have a bit of possession. During those times, pretty much every time, Gibson ran away from the ball, turned his back on it and generally hid as best as he could.

The times when he did actually make a pass were when the ball fell to him in a bit of space, generally immediately after OM had lost possession and were falling back.

23-02-2011 10:39pm

0-0 always a dangerous 1st leg away result.

United should still do it but it could be nervy.

dahat · 23-02-2011 10:41pm

Best part of the match was knowing i could flick over to Babestation for a few minutes safe in the knowledge nothing of any interest would happen.

Raskolnikov · 23-02-2011 10:42pm

Did Dunphy just say that Real Madrid don't have a midfielder who can pass the ball and who has vision?!?!

eigrod · 23-02-2011 10:43pm

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Did Dunphy just say that Real Madrid don't have a midfielder who can pass the ball and who has vision?!?!

Haha...yeah he did. Amazed Brady didn't pick him up on that.

Raskolnikov · 23-02-2011 10:44pm

Now Giles is saying the same thing.

BenK · 23-02-2011 10:45pm

LeeroyJones wrote: »

Apart from thread Nani and JOS twice and another time for Berbatov?! Not his fault they weren't converted... Had they been you would have people harping on about the 'New Paul Scholes'

I think it's fair to say that no-one would have been saying this!

23-02-2011 10:45pm

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Fergie will see this as job done.

I'd imagine he will think exactly the opposite tbh.

Pauleta · 23-02-2011 10:45pm

Lucho Martinez????????? I had faith in Brady as the only credible pundit between the 3 on RTE. He clearly doesnt do an research either :rolleyes:

Raskolnikov · 23-02-2011 10:48pm

rarnes1 wrote: »

I'd imagine he will think exactly the opposite tbh.

If Fergie felt that way he wouldn't have played 451 and he certainly wouldn't have went even more defensive as the game went on.

Headshot · 23-02-2011 10:49pm

saf buying a cm in summer

your having a laugh

daveyboy_1ie · 23-02-2011 10:52pm

Job done, important thing was to not concede. United should beat what is a very weak team in OT. Looking forward to the return leg, I think fergie's game plan in Europe is almost predictable at this stage and I fully expect united to go through.

dedon · 23-02-2011 10:54pm

We need a new midfield to compete in europe and people on here talking up Flectcher and Carrick(who was especially bad tonight) are only kissing themselves.

It is getting embarasing at this stage that we bring on the great Scholes and expect him to turn the game.

We have no passing or creative midfielder execpt Scholes and we are suffering as a result.

We need to wake up and people on here need to wake up

23-02-2011 10:56pm

dedon wrote: »

We need a new midfield to compete in europe and people on here talking up Flectcher and Carrick(who was especially bad tonight) are only kissing themselves.

Mitch Connor · 23-02-2011 10:58pm

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBORING!

Man of the Match and PLayer rating links....

Man of the Match

Player Ratings

steelcityblues · 23-02-2011 10:59pm

Headshot wrote: »

saf buying a cm in summer

your having a laugh

Iniesta would be the dream signing!

Headshot · 23-02-2011 11:02pm

steelcityblues wrote: »

Iniesta would be the dream signing!

lol and while we're at it, get Messi

dahat · 23-02-2011 11:03pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBORING!

Man of the Match and PLayer rating links....

Man of the Match

Player Ratings

No Vidic?Brown there instead so marked brown for vidic score.

Liam O · 23-02-2011 11:05pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBORING!

Man of the Match and PLayer rating links....

Man of the Match

Player Ratings

you have Brown instead of Vidic

steelcityblues · 23-02-2011 11:07pm

Headshot wrote: »

lol and while we're at it, get Messi

Not that likely I know, but United clearly need a dominant personality in the midfield.

Fenix · 23-02-2011 11:07pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBORING!

Man of the Match and PLayer rating links....

Man of the Match

Player Ratings

Just a heads up, you have Brown in where Vida should be in the Player Ratings one!

El Siglo · 23-02-2011 11:09pm

It was a pretty poor game, was happy with Chris Smalling, such a good player. Midfield is awful, Carrick is a bag of piss.

Pro. F · 23-02-2011 11:09pm

LeeroyJones wrote: »

Apart from thread Nani and JOS twice and another time for Berbatov?! Not his fault they weren't converted... Had they been you would have people harping on about the 'New Paul Scholes'(Which is nonesense but that's what happens in this day and age).

He passed to the attacking players three times? Yeah, what a legend he is...

And that's quite a funny hypothetical picture you paint of me there too. If the forwards had converted one of the all too brief chances they had then I would have praised them, not Gibson. Putting in three decent passes is not good enough.

LeeroyJones wrote: »

At the moment of his substitution Gibson had covered the same amount of grass as Fletcher (just above 9km) and was vastly more economical than Fletcher in possession as well as set up opportunities for JOS, Nani and Berb.

The stats mean nothing without proper analysis. Gibson ran about a fair bit, but a lot of it was useless, like his hiding from the ball when United had possession. Also he didn't close down as well as Fletcher did.

Still we are arguing over which shít midfielder was the most shít. They were all shít and all should be condemned for it.

LeeroyJones wrote: »

Could you point out where these new tactics have come from. The match is over now and the tempo remained the same from United since Scholes came on, and there were no new fresh movement from other areas of the park.

Fletcher remained a box-box midfielder making his tackles, Carrick remained looking for the ball and looking for passes and Scholes took up a slightly more advanced role..... where Gibson was!!!

Scholes came much deeper than Gibson and got on the ball and passed it forward. If you are just going to deny that then there is no point arguing with you.

Liam O wrote: »

Why should Gibson have had to do anything defensively? He kept attacking moves flowing only for the likes of Nani, Fletcher, Rooney and Berba to fcuk up. The amount of times United lost the ball tonight was deplorable and Gibson was the only one with decent ball retention.

All midfielders should do at least a bit of closing down when the opposition have the ball. Are you seriously denying that?

Gibson hid from the ball constantly, got caught in possession and didn't do enough defensively. He was shít.

Your talk of him ''keeping attacking moves flowing'' is complete and utter fantasy. He mostly hid from the ball when we had possession and did very little during his time on the pitch.

Headshot · 23-02-2011 11:10pm

steelcityblues wrote: »

Not thatl ikely I know, but United clearly need a dominant personality in the midfield.

blues, to quote a great man, No chance in hell (you've got)

Utd should be going for the likes of Sneijder or modric, at least we have a small chance of getting them.

steelcityblues · 23-02-2011 11:12pm

Headshot wrote: »

blues, to quote a great man, No chance in hell (you've got)

Utd should be going for the likes of Sneijder or modric, at least we have a small chance of getting them.

Can you guarandamntee it?

BERBA · 23-02-2011 11:13pm

Headshot wrote: »

Utd should be going for the likes of Sneijder or modric, at least we have a small chance of getting them.

'arry says your wasting your time:p

Headshot · 23-02-2011 11:13pm

steelcityblues wrote: »

Can you guarandamntee it?

your firrrrrrrrrrrrrrred

Dempsey · 23-02-2011 11:14pm

Pauleta wrote: »

Lucho Martinez????????? I had faith in Brady as the only credible pundit between the 3 on RTE. He clearly doesnt do an research either :rolleyes:

I thought I was hearing things, they just wing the punditry but they could at least read the squad sheets.

Pro. F · 23-02-2011 11:22pm

Dempsey wrote: »

I thought I was hearing things, they just wing the punditry but they could at least read the squad sheets.

You just have to ignore Eamo's trolling and the panal's lack of knowledge of footballing facts and enjoy the actual insight they give.

Their knowledge of facts (player names, results, records etc) is woeful. But their perception, their understanding of the game and their insight is really top rate.

When they have a game put under their noses and are asked to analyse it and rate how the teams and individual players did, they do a fantastic job (except for Eamo's trolling).

tdv123 · 23-02-2011 11:22pm

United always set-up up like this in Europe or big games in the EPL.

3 central midfielders to run around & do a grafting job, one out & out striker who just stays up field & dosent have to track back & 2 wingers who can win the ball back.

I'm not sure why Ferguson always insists on this formation in Europe as they always look a much more functional unit when they play the basic 4-4-2.

I think his fear of loosing is greater than his desire to win these big matches. Just stifle the opponents & hope for something on a break or from a set piece seems to be the way of doing things at United these days.

flahavaj · 23-02-2011 11:34pm

tdv123 wrote: »

United always set-up up like this in Europe or big games in the EPL.

3 central midfielders to run around & do a grafting job, one out & out striker who just stays up field & dosent have to track back & 2 wingers who can win the ball back.

I'm not sure why Ferguson always insists on this formation in Europe as they always look a much more functional unit when they play the basic 4-4-2.

I think his fear of loosing is greater than his desire to win these big matches. Just stifle the opponents & hope for something on a break or from a set piece seems to be the way of doing things at United these days.

3 in midfield has served him well in Europe. Results have in general been far better than when he used to play 4-4-2 on a regular basis.

Paul Tergat · 23-02-2011 11:42pm

flahavaj wrote: »

3 in midfield has served him well in Europe. Results have in general been far better than when he used to play 4-4-2 on a regular basis.

This

I have pretty much accepted the way we play in Europe will now be the same, solid rather than expansive football is the order of the day. Its made us far more competitive in Europe more recently and Fergie I think has realised in the earlier days we were a bit naive when it came to the big European nights.

Another problem, which I'm not going to get into here, is that I think we built a formation that was really suited to Ronaldo being in the team where there was one passing midfielder, the other 2 CM's were the legs in midfield and the front 3 then rotated nicely, it was Rooney/Tevez/Ronaldo. We are a lot less fluid now having Berba in one of those positions (not criticising Dimi here). Thats my feeling on it anyhoo

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 23-02-2011 11:43pm

Marseille have strong players, they aren't your average continental lightweighters with decent technique who usually get blown away by Premier League physicality.

I'll make a bold statement here - if they can keep the ball a bit better, which they might with Valbuena, I fancy them to nick an away draw and go through.

WallyGUFC · 23-02-2011 11:43pm

Smalling was immense tonight I thought.

flahavaj · 23-02-2011 11:45pm

Didier Deschamps these days kinds looks like Fr Jack Hackett if he scrubbed himself up a bit.

Pro. F · 24-02-2011 12:06am

flahavaj wrote: »

3 in midfield has served him well in Europe. Results have in general been far better than when he used to play 4-4-2 on a regular basis.

p_larkin99 wrote: »

This

I have pretty much accepted the way we play in Europe will now be the same, solid rather than expansive football is the order of the day. Its made us far more competitive in Europe more recently and Fergie I think has realised in the earlier days we were a bit naive when it came to the big European nights

Have either of you got the statistics to back up your claims?

I see this said all the time and it seems to be widely accepted but I haven't seen one statistical investigation which proves it. (I haven't seen one disproving it either, in fact I haven't seen one proper statistical investigation in football ever.)

Headshot · 24-02-2011 12:09am

I think saf plays 3 in the midfield because of the weakness in that position

I wonder if we had a young scholes and Keane would we be playing that formation these days ?

Just curious

UnitedIrishman · 24-02-2011 12:10am

Fergies way has always been to keep it tight until we get them back to ours, and then dominate them. He's had enough hard lessons through the years against the likes of Monaco, Porto, Dortmund etc when it's very hard to overturn a deficit in the second leg. I'd be happy enough with that result tonight.

flahavaj · 24-02-2011 12:11am

Pro. F wrote: »

Have either of you got the statistics to back up your claims?

I see this said all the time and it seems to be widely accepted but I haven't seen one statistical investigation which proves it. (I haven't seen one disproving it either, in fact I haven't seen one proper statistical investigation in football ever.)

I'm just going by memory tbh. I think the 3 in midfield bacame regularly used in 2007?

Record since then:

2007 - Champions League Semi-Final
2008 - Champions League Winners
2009 - Champions League Final
2010 - Champions League Quarter-Final

Record from 2000-2006:

2000 - Champions League Quarter-Final
2001 - Champions League Quarter-Final
2002 - Champions League Semi-Final
2003 - Champions League Quarter-Final
2004 - Champions League 2nd Round
2005 - Champions League 2nd Round
2006 - Champions League 1st Round

Paul Tergat · 24-02-2011 12:18am

Pro. F wrote: »

Have either of you got the statistics to back up your claims?

I see this said all the time and it seems to be widely accepted but I haven't seen one statistical investigation which proves it. (I haven't seen one disproving it either, in fact I haven't seen one proper statistical investigation in football ever.)

It really may just be selective thinking from me but we came off the back of a pretty poor spell in europe and we started to play 3 in the middle....

Also Flahs post may help ^

Pro. F · 24-02-2011 12:24am

flahavaj wrote: »

I'm just going by memory tbh. I think the 3 in midfield bacame regularly used in 2007?

Record since then:

2007 - Champions League Semi-Final
2008 - Champions League Winners
2009 - Champions League Final
2010 - Champions League Quarter-Final

Record from 2000-2006:

2000 - Champions League Quarter-Final
2001 - Champions League Quarter-Final
2002 - Champions League Semi-Final
2003 - Champions League Quarter-Final
2004 - Champions League 2nd Round
2005 - Champions League 2nd Round
2006 - Champions League 1st Round

Honestly I don't trust your memory of when we changed to 3 CMs. Also, why do you only go back to 2000 for how we did with 2 CMs? We had some good runs before that.

With the data that you give there, it could be interpreted as the rise of Ronaldo having an effect on results.

I'm not saying that you are definitely wrong, I just haven't seen any evidence for your theory that our results have improved since we moved to 3 CMs.

eZe^ · 24-02-2011 12:29am

Was Lucho playing for Marseille? And if so, how did he do? I always look out for him, have had a soft spot for him since his early Porto days.

Paul Tergat · 24-02-2011 12:30am

Pro. F wrote: »

Honestly I don't trust your memory of when we changed to 3 CMs. Also, why do you only go back to 2000 for how we did with 2 CMs? We had some good runs before that.

With the data that you give there, it could be interpreted as the rise of Ronaldo having an effect on results.

I'm not saying that you are definitely wrong, I just haven't seen any evidence for your theory that our results have improved since we moved to 3 CMs.

You make some good points and I reckon for me it maybe a mental thing. Sure we often dont play well with the 3 midfielders and often have less of an attacking threat but do you not think we generally look a lot more solid, are a lot less ragged since the days of 4-4-2?

Maybe we are kind of both right with our suggestions for the reason for the switch and its in fact a combo of both?

flahavaj · 24-02-2011 12:30am

Pro. F wrote: »

Honestly I don't trust your memory of when we changed to 3 CMs. Also, why do you only go back to 2000 for how we did with 2 CMs? We had some good runs before that.

With the data that you give there, it could be interpreted as the rise of Ronaldo having an effect on results.

I'm not saying that you are definitely wrong, I just haven't seen any evidence for your theory that our results have improved since we moved to 3 CMs.

Well we definitely played it in 2008 when we won it, I just can't quite remember if we did for certain in 2007. I only stoped at 2000 vecause the list i was using to cut and paste only went that far. It certainly shows enough to indicate from our results in 2004-2006 that something drastic needed to change. We've challenged well at the very latter stages of the competition using that formation - weren't far from winning two in a row.

We had success with 4-4-2 onbiously in '99 but that team was very very kamikaze and dare I say naive in Europe at times. We look a very solid unit with the three in midfield and tbh i thibk that will get you a long long way in the cometition if you're string at home - which United usually are.

Kev_ps3 · 24-02-2011 12:30am

Fergie seriously needs to get the cheque book out for midfielders in the summer.

Warper · 24-02-2011 12:55am

God, what a boring match, thank god its over, a team top of the league in England v a mid-table French team. Is this what soccer has become?

Warper · 24-02-2011 1:12am

Headshot wrote: »

blues, to quote a great man, No chance in hell (you've got)

Utd should be going for the likes of Sneijder or modric, at least we have a small chance of getting them.

Modric would go, no doubt and would be a great signing for Utd. He could replace the Scholes-like influence that Utd. have been missing.

Blatter · 24-02-2011 1:14am

eZe^ wrote: »

Was Lucho playing for Marseille? And if so, how did he do? I always look out for him, have had a soft spot for him since his early Porto days.

Yeah he played, he was pretty poor tbh. Had no impact on the game at all but to be fair not one forward thinking player did.

Brady called him Lucho Martinez at the end while he was dismissing him.

Marseille vs Manchester United 23/2/11 Champions League last 16 match thread

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