Tax relief on rental property

Seamonster

Is there anyway for s landlord to check if tenants are applying for this? What if tenants agreed on an under-the-table cash deal with the rent and then decided to stitch the landlord up by applying for tax relief, is there anyway a landlord can check if they are applying for it?

Thanks!

Jumpy

Seamonster wrote: »

Is there anyway for s landlord to check if tenants are applying for this? What if tenants agreed on an under-the-table cash deal with the rent and then decided to stitch the landlord up by applying for tax relief, is there anyway a landlord can check if they are applying for it?

Thanks!

You will know when the tax man comes looking for you.

No pity whatsoever if this happens to you.

astrofool

Jumpy wrote: »

You will know when the tax man comes looking for you.

No pity whatsoever if this happens to you.

You can also claim it retrospectively, so it's in the tenants interest to claim after they have left (in the case of a "deal").

wyndham

Seamonster wrote: »

Is there anyway for s landlord to check if tenants are applying for this? What if tenants agreed on an under-the-table cash deal with the rent and then decided to stitch the landlord up by applying for tax relief, is there anyway a landlord can check if they are applying for it?

Thanks!

The landlord in this case would be very foolish. There is no legal lease given that tax evasion formed part of the deal. The tenants are still entitled to claim the relief and don't need the PPSN really. Address of the property and landlords name would suffice. Revenue will do the rest.

Seamonster

Get off your high horse Jumpy, people like you wreck my head, the government in Ireland have made things so difficult for landlords because they have created a situation where a house owner may not be able to afford to live in his own house anymore due to BER fee's, property tax, fee's etc. so has to rent it out and move back in with his parents and in addition can't afford to pay the ridiculous fee's to register for tax. If the rent is cheap and cash in hand, thousands of tenants are quite happy to do this if it means they save money. I'm not saying this is a good situation, but it benefits tenant and landlord and allows people to survive.

So get this image out of your narrow brain of landlords making millions and driving around in luxury cars while the poor tenant scrapes for tax back. Back your facts up or grow up, don't make a statement like that unless you know the situation. :mad:

I'm sure if you were a house owner and needed to get a roof repair for example, and got a quote from a trades man for 200 euro cash, or 1000 including VAT, tax etc. you would defo go for the cheaper option.

OMD

Seamonster wrote: »

Get off your high horse Jumpy, people like you wreck my head, the government in Ireland have made things so difficult for landlords because they have created a situation where a house owner may not be able to afford to live in his own house anymore due to BER fee's, property tax, fee's etc. so has to rent it out and move back in with his parents and in addition can't afford to pay the ridiculous fee's to register for tax. If the rent is cheap and cash in hand, thousands of tenants are quite happy to do this if it means they save money. I'm not saying this is a good situation, but it benefits tenant and landlord and allows people to survive.

So get this image out of your narrow brain of landlords making millions and driving around in luxury cars while the poor tenant scrapes for tax back. Back your facts up or grow up, don't make a statement like that unless you know the situation. :mad:

I'm sure if you were a house owner and needed to get a roof repair for example, and got a quote from a trades man for 200 euro cash, or 1000 including VAT, tax etc. you would defo go for the cheaper option.

Grow up yourself. You want to be a tax dodger. I don't dodge my tax and probably neither does Jumpy. Pay your tax and don't sponge off the rest of us.

As regards the workman fixing the roof, I would get the work done at the cheaper price and then report the tradesman to the revenue. Get with the real world. Tax dodgers are scum. I will shop any tax dodger I know.

wyndham

Seamonster wrote: »

Get off your high horse Jumpy, people like you wreck my head, the government in Ireland have made things so difficult for landlords because they have created a situation where a house owner may not be able to afford to live in his own house anymore due to BER fee's, property tax, fee's etc. so has to rent it out and move back in with his parents ............

What are you talking about?

There are no BER fees for owner occupiers. This is a once off certification that must be provided to house purchasers or tenants at the time of purchase or letting. There are no ongoing costs and there is no cost to the purchaser.

There are, as yet, no property taxes for owner occupiers in this state?

What 'fees' are you talking about?

Paulw

astrofool wrote: »

You can also claim it retrospectively, so it's in the tenants interest to claim after they have left (in the case of a "deal").

Yeah, that's the best way to do it. I claimed back tax on a property I rented, a year after I left.

But, in fairness, I did know the landlord was fully tax compliant.

Either way, the tenant can claim up to 3 years after leaving the property. The tenant has absolutely nothing to lose at all. While a tax dodging landlord has everything to lose. :rolleyes:

Jumpy

Seamonster wrote: »

Get off your high horse Jumpy, people like you wreck my head, the government in Ireland have made things so difficult for landlords because they have created a situation where a house owner may not be able to afford to live in his own house anymore due to BER fee's, property tax, fee's etc. so has to rent it out and move back in with his parents and in addition can't afford to pay the ridiculous fee's to register for tax. If the rent is cheap and cash in hand, thousands of tenants are quite happy to do this if it means they save money. I'm not saying this is a good situation, but it benefits tenant and landlord and allows people to survive.

So get this image out of your narrow brain of landlords making millions and driving around in luxury cars while the poor tenant scrapes for tax back. Back your facts up or grow up, don't make a statement like that unless you know the situation. :mad:

I'm sure if you were a house owner and needed to get a roof repair for example, and got a quote from a trades man for 200 euro cash, or 1000 including VAT, tax etc. you would defo go for the cheaper option.

I pay tax. You dont. Theres the difference.

If you want to survive, sell your other house. Dont start the "poor me, I cant afford to pay tax" crap.

Seamonster

wyndham wrote: »

What are you talking about?

There are no BER fees for owner occupiers. This is a once off certification that must be provided to house purchasers or tenants at the time of purchase or letting. There are no ongoing costs and there is no cost to the purchaser.

There are, as yet, no property taxes for owner occupiers in this state?

What 'fees' are you talking about?

What am I talking about? Open your eyes, this is about people renting houses from a landlord. 'Owner Occupier' believe it or not means an owner who occupies so I have no idea where you think that fits in to this. Landlords who want to rent the house have to pay about €215 Euro for BER, €140 to register the property. Thats' over 350 a landlord has to pay. If a landlord is moving out because he has been unemployed for over a year, in debt, hasn't been able to pay gas, ESB, bin collection or phone bills, how is he supposed to find 350 euro? What's the other option, lose the house, hose gets repossesed and the family that would have paid a cheap rent to occupy it still can't find somewhere to live?

You know, there are landlords who have reluctantly had to rent their house because they can't afford to live there anymore, it's a depressing situation. I hope you understand the difference between those type and the 'career landlords'.

Seamonster

Jumpy wrote: »

I pay tax. You dont. Theres the difference.

If you want to survive, sell your other house. Dont start the "poor me, I cant afford to pay tax" crap.

Your something else Jumpy. You obviously have telepathic powers beyond belief or your a narrow minded idiot.

Here are some facts -

1 - this is my only house, I have had to move out because I was made redundant and in lots of debt. You presume I have a second house. Have you a crystal ball where you get all this info from? Another narrow-minded image of landlords owning lots of property.

2 - You say I don't pay tax - how do you know that? Have you seen me driving around in my tax free car in your crystal ball?

dolphin city

they dont need your pps but they do need your address. the revenue will be able to find you through that.

you should have registered with the PTRB once you got tenants in - I think it cost about 150 - the fine is about 5000 if you didn't. did you know that?

Jumpy

Seamonster wrote: »

Your something else Jumpy. You obviously have telepathic powers beyond belief or your a narrow minded idiot.

Here are some facts -

1 - this is my only house, I have had to move out because I was made redundant and in lots of debt. You presume I have a second house. Have you a crystal ball where you get all this info from? Another narrow-minded image of landlords owning lots of property.

2 - You say I don't pay tax - how do you know that? Have you seen me driving around in my tax free car in your crystal ball?

Ok I will retract my statement if you can explain why you asked the question that specifically pointed to a tax dodging landlord.

Seamonster

It's actually 3000 or 6 months imprisonment. And, 150 euro is a lot of money when you have no money.

Seamonster

Jumpy wrote: »

Ok I will retract my statement if you can explain why you asked the question that specifically pointed to a tax dodging landlord.

I don't really care if you retract your statement or not to be honest. It's out there already and quite obvious you judge people based on your own assumptions.

astrofool

If that's really the case, then your earnings on the flat will keep your income below the tax thresholds, and you'll be able to offset mortgage interest costs against this.

BER can be got for about €140, and is a once off cost, I thought PRTB registration was about 70? and in either case, you can use the first months rent to pay for this.

What we need to do is get rid of amateur landlords, who have no money to maintain their property, and want to do everything under the table, making everything hard for both the tenant and landlord from a legal perspective.

If they trash the place, your non compliance may end up costing more than it costs to fix up the place, if you're doing a "deal" the tenant won't give a sh*t about your property.

[edit]PRTB reg cost: http://public.prtb.ie/fees.htm was €70, now €90[/edit]

Seamonster

OMD wrote: »

Grow up yourself. You want to be a tax dodger. I don't dodge my tax and probably neither does Jumpy. Pay your tax and don't sponge off the rest of us.

As regards the workman fixing the roof, I would get the work done at the cheaper price and then report the tradesman to the revenue. Get with the real world. Tax dodgers are scum. I will shop any tax dodger I know.

You seem to another tool with an image of landlords 'sponging' off people like you. If a landlord isn't making money from renting their house, just barely covering mortgage, how are they sponging off you? Is there a new law where landlords pay tax on money they are losing? Cop on.

A bit of a devious rat too, maybe from childhood issues that never went away, I don't know - giving some hard up tradesman work then squeeling on him. That's big.

Get with the real world yourself - the real world is people are afraid of losing their house here and this may be the only way to save their house.

When a tenant agrees to avoid tax and fully aware - are they scum too? If you accept a cash job from a builder aware its cheap because its cash - it makes you scum too, and a rat for accepting the job then screwing him over.

Jumpy

Seamonster wrote: »

When a tenant agrees to avoid tax and fully aware - are they scum too?

Yes.

wyndham

Seamonster wrote: »

a house owner may not be able to afford to live in his own house anymore due to BER fee's, property tax, fee's etc.

?This is what you said.

Seamonster

Jumpy wrote: »

Yes.

Thank you! I'm just saying it takes two to tango, there are situations when it benefits both parties. It's wrong, but for some people it is the only way to survive, if someone is making money then they should pay tax, but when a landlord can barely cover mortgage payments and is still left in the red it can really push them over the finacial edge having to register for tax.

All i'm saying is that not all landlords who don't pay tax are evil, just afraid of losing their home.

OMD

OMD wrote: »

I would get the work done at the cheaper price and then report the tradesman to the revenue. Get with the real world. Tax dodgers are scum. I will shop any tax dodger I know.

Are you for real? You would avail of the service and then report the chap? What a ghoul.

Seamonster

wyndham wrote: »

?This is what you said.

sorry, apologies, I meant to say that they moved out because they could not afford to live there and its the above costs that landlords have to pay when they decide to rent that means they have to avoid registering for tax in order to be able to rent in the first place.

OMD

RoverJames wrote: »

Are you for real? You would avail of the service and then report the chap? What a ghoul.

I will get the best price I can. If I feel someone is dodging tax I will report them. The 2 issues are seperate.

OMD

Seamonster wrote: »

You seem to another tool with an image of landlords 'sponging' off people like you. If a landlord isn't making money from renting their house, just barely covering mortgage, how are they sponging off you? Is there a new law where landlords pay tax on money they are

When a tenant agrees to avoid tax and fully aware - are they scum too? If you accept a cash job from a builder aware its cheap because its cash - it makes you scum too, and a rat for accepting the job then screwing him over.

You want to dodge tax. Therefore people like me will have to pay more tax. So I dint give a damn about your circumstances. I am nit going to pay more tax so you don't have too.

A tradesman not paying tax and then using that to undercut other tradesmen who are paying tax us a disgrace and therefore should be reported.

Seamonster

No they are not seperate. a prosecution can be brought against you if it can be proved that you accepted a bribe in the form of EUR 200 for a repair job to help him evade tax.

That comment is just two faced, enjoying a cheap job illegally and then trying to be all honest once the job is done. A rat is a rat.

Seamonster

OMD wrote: »

You want to dodge tax. Therefore people like me will have to pay more tax. So I dint give a damn about your circumstances. I am nit going to pay more tax so you don't have too.

A tradesman not paying tax and then using that to undercut other tradesmen who are paying tax us a disgrace and therefore should be reported.

so why not report them before the job is done? surely you would ask him for vat receipts before he starts? if not you are accomodating him?

Also, do you think I should pay tax on nothing? I'm not making money on renting, just covering rent. if i was making money fair enough, but i'm not. how are you losing on that?

OMD

Seamonster wrote: »

No they are not seperate. a prosecution can be brought against you if it can be proved that you accepted a bribe in the form of EUR 200 for a repair job to help him evade tax.

That comment is just two faced, enjoying a cheap job illegally and then trying to be all honest once the job is done. A rat is a rat.

somehow you seem to feel "ratting" on illegal activity is wrong.

OMD

Seamonster wrote: »

so why not report them before the job is done? surely you would ask him for vat receipts before he starts? if not you are accomodating him?

Also, do you think I should pay tax on nothing? I'm not making money on renting, just covering rent. if i was making money fair enough, but i'm not. how are you losing on that?

You cannot report a crime before it has happened.

You were the one who brought up the idea of trying to avoid tax. If you are I wouldn't support you in any way. If I was your tenant I would claim my tax relief. You started by saying you would offer tenant a deal if they didn't claim tax relief. By this dishonest activity you areundetcutting honest Tax paying landlords

LooksLikeRain

Also, do you think I should pay tax on nothing? I'm not making money on renting, just covering rent

Hi Seamonster,
At the moment you are correct but be aware of what is proposed by some of the parties for the next budget. Under both Labours and Sinn Feins proposed policy landlords will be paying tax before they make any profit. This is because both parties wish to abolish mortgage interest relief for investment properties. So for a landlord the mortgage on the property no longer becomes a deductible expense.
If a landlord is paid € 1000 for rent he\she must pay € 410 in tax regardless of whether this covers the mortgage.
Not much chance of sinn fein getting into power but Labour may. So anyone who has a rental property should give labour their lowest vote.
Labour think anyone with a second property is very rich must have a big stash of cash under the bed.
In reality most landlords are paye workers who bought a property as a pension.

dolphin city

Seamonster wrote: »

It's actually 3000 or 6 months imprisonment. And, 150 euro is a lot of money when you have no money.

I'd say you should sell your house, before you have us all killed on here.

The_Conductor

Seamonster wrote: »

If a landlord isn't making money from renting their house, just barely covering mortgage, how are they sponging off you? Is there a new law where landlords pay tax on money they are losing? Cop on.

It really doesn't matter whether a landlord is making money from renting a property or not- they have some expenses which are allowable, and some which are not, against their rental income, before determination of their taxable income. For example- if your mortgage is (for arguments sake) 4k interest only, and your rental income is also 4k- you cannot simply offset one against the other. As you're not resident in the property you do not qualify for Mortgage Interest Relief- and you have to declare this both to the bank and also the Revenue Commissioners. Your mortgage interest is partially allowable (@ 75%) as an allowable cost- which means 3000 of the 4000 is an allowable expense- and you are only liable for tax on the other 1000.......

Unfortunately- simply because you're not making money out of the transaction- does not necessarily mean you don't owe tax.......

Seamonster wrote: »

Get with the real world yourself - the real world is people are afraid of losing their house here and this may be the only way to save their house.

While I sympathise- becoming a landlord is a business decision, with business rules that must be followed. If you are unable to, or unwilling to, follow these business rules- then unfortunately you really should not be considering becoming a landlord. Whether its your sole property- or wheter you own a whole raft of properties, is irrelevant- the same rules apply to you as anyone else who is letting a property.

Seamonster wrote: »

When a tenant agrees to avoid tax and fully aware - are they scum too? If you accept a cash job from a builder aware its cheap because its cash - it makes you scum too, and a rat for accepting the job then screwing him over.

Avoiding tax is legal- its a mechanism to use legal means at a persons disposal, regardless of the ethics involved- to get around having to pay tax. Evading tax- on the other hand is illegal, pure and simple. In a transaction where a landlord is supplying a service to a tenant (letting a property to them), the landlord is involved in a taxable transaction- the tenant, is not. The landlord has a lot to loose if he is not fully tax compliant for his part of the transaction- the tenant, doesn't.....