Newly Qualified accountant - Salary

Galego

Jannise wrote: »

Funny. I am from Dublin, and was offered an accountancy job in Cavan. Can't decide now, will i manage with such a long commute.

As a good accountant, have you considered the petrol/diesel consumption cost which you will have for a whole year commuting to Cavan?

With the experts expecting petrol/diesel to go up to 2 EUR/L at the end of this year.

Other considerations would be, car depreciation, cost of your free time, etc.

Jannise

Galego wrote: »

As a good accountant, have you considered the petrol/diesel consumption cost which you will have for a whole year commuting to Cavan?

With the experts expecting petrol/diesel to go up to 2 EUR/L at the end of this year.

Other considerations would be, car depreciation, cost of your free time, etc.

Actually the first thing i though about was my time, not so much about the petrol costs, as money is not everything and i can afford it. But i said no eventually, but because of the other reasons.

Galego

Jannise wrote: »

Actually the first thing i though about was my time, not so much about the petrol costs, as money is not everything and i can afford it. But i said no eventually, but because of the other reasons.

Seems like a wise decision to me.

I have massive respect for heavy commuters. I just couldnt do it myself.

Back to the topic.

23k EUR is well underpaid for an accountant. I'd expect no less than 35k.

santino

Hey All,

I passed my last ACCA exam a few weeks ago. Will be applying for membership soon.

I waited a few weeks to see if any move was made by my boss on the salary front. There wasn't, so I went in to chat yesterday. I'm on my trainee salary from 2008 of 24,000. (no increases having passed 3 exams since then)

It didn't go as well as I thought it would have. She gave me the usual story of how times are hard, yet against this the practice (Co. Limerick) is growing and we have never been as busy in the 5 years that I have been here having taken on at least 8/9 new clients since January.
Anyway, it ended with her saying that I am a valued member of the team and that she would review it but 'that there isn't much scope to work with'.

I'm more than disappointed...

Cyrus

santino wrote: »

Hey All,

I passed my last ACCA exam a few weeks ago. Will be applying for membership soon.

I waited a few weeks to see if any move was made by my boss on the salary front. There wasn't, so I went in to chat yesterday. I'm on my trainee salary from 2008 of 24,000. (no increases having passed 3 exams since then)

It didn't go as well as I thought it would have. She gave me the usual story of how times are hard, yet against this the practice (Co. Limerick) is growing and we have never been as busy in the 5 years that I have been here having taken on at least 8/9 new clients since January.
Anyway, it ended with her saying that I am a valued member of the team and that she would review it but 'that there isn't much scope to work with'.

I'm more than disappointed...

well you know what to do

go out to the market and see who will pay you what you are worth

santino

Cyrus wrote: »

well you know what to do

go out to the market and see who will pay you what you are worth

Cheers Cyrus.
To be honest, I was so sure of getting a (good) raise I hadn't even thought of looking elsewhere as I am reasonably happy where I am.
It definately throws a spanner in the works.
I'll look around, it's no harm to do that anyway...

Trophywife

santino wrote: »

Cheers Cyrus.
To be honest, I was so sure of getting a (good) raise I hadn't even thought of looking elsewhere as I am reasonably happy where I am.
It definately throws a spanner in the works.
I'll look around, it's no harm to do that anyway...

Hi Santino

I'm the original poster on this thread so you know my story.

Congrats on passing the exams!! A lot of hard work I know and now it seems that there no reward for it when salary doesn't increase. I know exactly how your feeling right now.

I've been looking around and I've 2 interviews set up for monday, one of them is a second interview and I think i basically have that job more or less. So I am really excited to be moving on as I dont think I got the appreciation I deserve from current employer. It'll be different walking into a place being qualified. You won't be seen as a trainee anymore, as I would have been if I was to stay where I am at the minute.

Its up to you whether or not you want to move. I see it as having studied for 6 years that I want to be rewarded financially for it and I deserve it. So I'd never be happy just to take what I was on when training. Entirely up to you though, but I am really excited to have new things around the corner...a career adventure!! Here I go!!! Best of luck in whatever you decide to do!

Shane732

Just a quick question for the OP and other posters here - how on earth did you work for €23 - €25k for the last 3 1/2 years let alone consider working for that much going forward?

Those figures are just ridiculous. I worked in a small practice in Meath for roughly a year when I was starting out and was on €23k,

I'm now a qualified AITI tax consultant with 1 years PQE, working in practice and currently doing my ACA exams. I'm earning almost double those figures you quoted plus study leave, tuition fees, exam fees and subscription fees etc... I'm also getting a few other benefits etc...

I'm working in a 5 partner firm with about 30 staff in total. We're probably a top 20 firm.

The market at the moment for a newly qualified tax consultant or tax consultant with 1 year PQE is roughly €45 - €50k in Dublin. In audit the market is in and around the €45k market. Tax consultancy tends to pay slightly more than audit for some reason.

You get what you fight for. If you sit there and take €23k then no one is going to come and give you €45k. At the end of the day your employer wants to keep his/her salary costs down. It's up to you to judge how far you can push the partner salary wish.

The trend in most firms in Dublin anyway is that you either move up or out when you qualify. It's up to you to decide whether you're going to move up or out. There may be no option but to move out.

One of the posters mentioned that they've taken 8/9 new people on over the last few months. Surely as an audit senior you should be looking to move up and manage those new trainees. Is there scope for you to take this role?

buck65

Well done OP for looking elsewhere, you clearly aren't valued where you are. As an employer even if things are tight after your customer your staff are your most important asset and if they are worth keeping they are worth paying better.
A good employee will always bring in the business and cost less headaches. Pay the girl!

Cyrus

i think part of the issue is that smaller practices cant afford to pay the going rate,

however doesnt mean that its your problem, move on

Trophywife

Definately time to move on.

@Shane....your very lucky that your experience of training and getting a good job was a relatively straight forward one. The country is going through hard times at the minute and jobs aren't exactly growing on trees round my part of the country, therefore the salary is less than what it would be in a big city, and I accept that. But regarding 23k, I know its too low, my employer knows that and thats why they advised me to go and get another job.

You asked how on earth did I work for that? Very easy...started off on 19k training and my expectation was that as I worked my way through the exams that my salary would increase accordingly, but that never happened. I don't mind having been paid that to date as I was able to live on it, quite well. My husband has a good job, we have a lovely house and a good standard of living, 5-6 holidays per year, a house in spain etc. You make it sound like I was working for nothing and was foolish and nieve to do it, but there was no other option!!! I am qualified now so in my opinion it was worth the sacrafice.

Its different for people who are working outside dublin. I could move to dublin and be on 35-40k staraight away but I'm not willing to give up my dream house, and relaxed standard of living to traffic jams and densly populated residential areas with people living in eachothers pockets. My husband is from Dublin and he would never move back. We paln to start a family in a couple of years and we want to bring them up in the small country town where we live. Dublin just isnt for us.

My problem was that my employer was refusing to increase my pay after i brought in fees of 9k last year, my colleague brought in 0k, she's being paid 2k more, we do exactly the same job and she's only qualified 6 months longer. They wouldnt put me up to her salary cos they want to force me to leave, perhaps to avoid paying me redundancy....!?!? So thats where my gripe is....I want to be treated equally. But that will never happen here...so I nearly have a new job. By the end of the week I'll know for definate.

Thanks everyone for all your helpful advice!

Shane732

Trophywife wrote: »

Definately time to move on.

@Shane....your very lucky that your experience of training and getting a good job was a relatively straight forward one. The country is going through hard times at the minute and jobs aren't exactly growing on trees round my part of the country, therefore the salary is less than what it would be in a big city, and I accept that. But regarding 23k, I know its too low, my employer knows that and thats why they advised me to go and get another job.

You asked how on earth did I work for that? Very easy...started off on 19k training and my expectation was that as I worked my way through the exams that my salary would increase accordingly, but that never happened. I don't mind having been paid that to date as I was able to live on it, quite well. My husband has a good job, we have a lovely house and a good standard of living, 5-6 holidays per year, a house in spain etc. You make it sound like I was working for nothing and was foolish and nieve to do it, but there was no other option!!! I am qualified now so in my opinion it was worth the sacrafice.

Its different for people who are working outside dublin. I could move to dublin and be on 35-40k staraight away but I'm not willing to give up my dream house, and relaxed standard of living to traffic jams and densly populated residential areas with people living in eachothers pockets. My husband is from Dublin and he would never move back. We paln to start a family in a couple of years and we want to bring them up in the small country town where we live. Dublin just isnt for us.

My problem was that my employer was refusing to increase my pay after i brought in fees of 9k last year, my colleague brought in 0k, she's being paid 2k more, we do exactly the same job and she's only qualified 6 months longer. They wouldnt put me up to her salary cos they want to force me to leave, perhaps to avoid paying me redundancy....!?!? So thats where my gripe is....I want to be treated equally. But that will never happen here...so I nearly have a new job. By the end of the week I'll know for definate.

Thanks everyone for all your helpful advice!

Are you living in Meath? I live in Meath and have done all my life. I'd find it very hard to move to Dublin. Having said that Meath isn't that far away from Dublin, I work on the Southside and it takes me less than a hour to get to work most of the time.

I understand where you're coming from. Every time I passed exams I went in to the managing partner, sat down and discussed it and have managed to do ok for myself. On the other hand I suppose the partner could have told me to go and f*** off! I guess to a certain extent it's the naivety of my youth.

I'm currently having a level of difficultly in my place at the moment and there is certainly a lot of tension in my department at the moment. So all is not rosy! Hopefully in time this will pass, once we get a proper management structure in place.

Pablito Escobar

23k?? That's incredibly low for someone who is so qualified!
I finished my training contract with one of the big 4 last Oct 31 and was on 41k (which I'm still on).
My dept have hired about 5 people recently who would have just completed their contracts with smaller firms as they are quite understaffed. They are retaining people coming out of contract, but nobody wants to stay there.

trixabello

hope you get the job trophywife. Is it for a job in cavan with much better salary? Im a trainee in Meath at the moment, doing my FAE's this year. started on €16.5K and am now on €19K after pay cuts and mandatory increments. Recession is being blamed on everything even though the practice is bringing in plenty of new clients. I know people doing their FAE in our practice 2 years ago were on €26K. At least this is the last year and I can start looking elsewhere, nothing worse than working for a greedy employer!
We put in plenty of overtime and get no bonuses, but suppose their high rate of staff turnover shows how badly they treat ppl...:rolleyes:

Trophywife

Hi Trixabello

19k is bad too. Its unreal how much they can get away with. There should be some sort of regulation over it, like FAS apprentices have a pay scale that has to be followed and they are paid according to the level they are at and get put up the pay scale as they pass exams. It should be the same for trainee accountants. We are being taken for a ride...I was looking for a job for ages and its only when I got qualified the job interviews started rolling in. I've had 3 so far and another one arranged for next wednesday. When your qualified you'll be able to move on no problem. So stick at it and get ur finals and the world will be your oyster!! lol

Trophywife

Shane732 wrote: »

Are you living in Meath?

No I live in Cavan. Working in meath. After my I did my first exams I went to partners when I passed and expected an increase, I was told then it was annual review and had to wait. Then I got increase from 19k to 21k. Second year here they offered me 1k increase and this was when times werent so bad. I kicked up a fuss and managed to get to 23k. The third year, they were meant to give a review in July 2010 and still nothing, I asked a few times about it and they kept putting me off then it eventually came to me passing exams and then they still wouldnt give me anything. One good thing that they did do was give 1k bonus at xmas, it was great to get this but it still doesnt compensate for bad pay overall. The other trainee here was on 25k in her third year, totally unfair (to me as she was on 2k more) and she's still on that now and she's qualified.

I'm working an extra 5 weeks (no study leave) a year now with no pay increase....well hopefully I wont be here much longer but at the minute thats the way it stands....can't wait to get out of this place. As you can see I'm not exerting myself too much in work anymore...whats the point, i'll do the bog standard that I have to do but not going out of my way to impress anymore. Plus I've nothing to do anyway today, no work coming in!!

smcgiff

Have come to this thread late, but someone that takes 5-6 holidays a year is wondering why they are not considered as valuable?

Secondly, again we are only hearing one side of the story - to my mind the practice is paying the person more because they value them more and are happy to see the other person go. It's not rocket science.

Trophywife

smcgiff wrote: »

Have come to this thread late, but someone that takes 5-6 holidays a year is wondering why they are not considered as valuable?

Secondly, again we are only hearing one side of the story - to my mind the practice is paying the person more because they value them more and are happy to see the other person go. It's not rocket science.

5-6 holidays a year....whats wrong with that? I take no more than my twenty days which I am more than entitled!! You are presuming I'm taking extra time off which I'm not. A holiday can be a weekend away not necessarily 1-2 weeks for each one!!

Maybe they do value her more, she's local and they knew her before she started working here. It doesnt mean I'm not as hard a worker!!! Again your presuming....!!!

Trophywife

Got bad news there from one of the job interviews, didnt get it. Fingers crossed my interview for next wednesday goes well....its closer to home and its a bigger company so might be better if I got that one!!

smcgiff

Trophywife wrote: »

Again your presuming....!!!

Of course, that's all we can do. I've not even posted some of my other assumptions.

Trophywife

smcgiff wrote: »

Of course, that's all we can do. I've not even posted some of my other assumptions.

Presuming that I deserve to be on 23k after studying for nearly 6 years and passing professional exams ?!?!?!

I'm presuming that you might be one of the employers who are using the recession as an excuse for paying really bad rates of pay....but thats all I can do....presume!

Are you an accountant?

smcgiff

Trophywife wrote: »

Presuming that I deserve to be on 23k after studying for nearly 6 years and passing professional exams ?!?!?!

It does sound low - However, I've posted recently enough re my position on rates of pay.

Trophywife wrote: »

Are you an accountant?

A mere accountant? God no! :pac:

Trophywife

I'd prefer is you didnt post anymore on this thread smcgiff as your just being negative about things, and I didnt come on this to get slagged off by people. So if you've nothing productive to say maybe you shouldnt say anything at all.

Lets just leave it at that!

kopfan77

smcgiff wrote: »

Have come to this thread late, but someone that takes 5-6 holidays a year is wondering why they are not considered as valuable?

Absolutely ridiculous post....has nothing whatsoever to do with topic. Her holidays are hers to do with as she pleases so what bearing does that have on her position or her performance with this firm.
Sounds to me like you're only posting to stir it up!

smcgiff

kopfan77 wrote: »

Absolutely ridiculous post....has nothing whatsoever to do with topic. Her holidays are hers to do with as she pleases so what bearing does that have on her position or her performance with this firm.
Sounds to me like you're only posting to stir it up!

Trying to be Devil's advocate. No point everyone agreeing as it's less likely to lead to progress.

For example someone above mentioned their firm were bringing in loads of new clients and therefore everything should be gravy.

I personally know of a practice that has brought in clients at below cost to support their existing staff.

Practices may be gaining new clients, but what about the losses? Under pressure clients are moving around and one of the main stipulations is the fee cost.

It amazes me how unrealistic even qualified accountants are about the real world economics. The practice the OP works for is obviously small, with two partners who hired two trainees as that's all they could afford. If they wanted/required qualified accountants they would have hired them in the first place.

Regardless of the exams passed by the trainees it looks likely the firm cannot pay beyond trainee rates. They've made it clear it's in the OP's interest to move on. The OP should be grateful for the experience and move on.

This is what most of us did. I started off as a trainee accountant on less than the dole payments of the time. This is where we are mostly likely heading back to again.

Basically, nobody owes anybody else a living. There's a job and pay on offer and if it's not wanted then they can move on, which is what the OP is trying to do. However, it is unlikely the firm the OP is working for are heartless ogres trying to screw them over. It' not about respect, but economics.

Trophywife

I never said anyone was heartless, in fact I said I was happy they let me know straight out and werent trying to string me along! You were trying to stirr it up there, that is obvious and not only to me as you can see from kopfan77 post too.

If you read all the thread and knew the full story you might have a different opinion of me. I am being treated unfairly. I am being paid less that my co-worker. I brought in 9k of fees last year and she brought in nothing yet she is being paid more. I passed all my exams first time while the firm had to pay for her to repeat. I have no problem looking for another job and thats what I am doing. Just because the firm is in diffs doesnt mean that I should be singled out and be treated unfairly though!

Trophywife

Maybe you should remember that its not just a story and there are real people involved here who have enough sh*t to cope with, without being slagged off and belittled.

I came on this to get advice on support from people on what I should do, and to see if there were others who had similar experiences. And the majority of people have been very helpful and made me feel like it wasnt just me who had this problem and gave good advice. You on the other hand....well.....I'll keep my opinions to myself, because sometimes its better that way!!

Trophywife

Oh...I can add people to my ignore list.....didnt see that before....hmm....interesting!!

Trophywife

smcgiff wrote: »

It' not about respect, but economics.

:eek: I disagree, I think employers most definately should respect they're employees!!

Call me old fashioned!! lol

kennyb3

Trophywife wrote: »

Oh...I can add people to my ignore list.....didnt see that before....hmm....interesting!!

I think you are taking what smcgiff very personally and going a bit OTT, i think he is just trying to offer a varied opinion looking at it from the otherside.

I do think he took you up wrong on the holidays - thinking you meant 5-6 weeks maybe.

BTW, i agree with a bit of both sides of the arguement.