Petrol the new Diesel

johnos1984

I've just be having a look at what manufacturers are planning for their petrol engines in the near future.

With the current emmission system we have in Ireland you would think that the petrol engine is soon going to suffer a quick death in the eyes of the buyers what with it being dirty and expensive to run.....

Diesels seems to of completely taken over however most buyers now are seduced with the low cost of diesel and road tax and have little concern for the actual running costs. If a modern diesel breaks it can cost a fortune to repair and negate any savings made. Petrols are still generally cheaper and more reliable especially when it comes to servicing. Diesels also have little worth in short journeys and town driving. Also if not serviced regularly they can become very temperamental due to the fact they have become very complicated engines in the past 10 years.

Anyway now manufacturers are planning ever more complicated petrol engines in a bid to make them appealing again.

However is this just going to make them as unreliable as the current crop of diesel engines and leave us high and dry over what the best choice actually is?

So far, touch wood, neither petrol nor diesel cars have left me with large bills although i do have to confess to missing my petrol engines

The Bishop Basher

It's only amatter of time before the government realise the amount of revenue they're missing out on because of the switch to Diesel and they'll start taxing it to the hilt negating any gains. Green was never really part of the agenda. Petrol is not dead. Not by along way.

johnos1984

Swanner wrote: »

It's only amatter of time before the government realise the amount of revenue they're missing out on because of the switch to Diesel and they'll start taxing it to the hilt negating any gains. Green was never really part of the agenda. Petrol is not dead. Not by along way.

I agree 100%

Thats what will happen. Petrol is certainly not dead either. My worry is though that they will begin to turbo charge and supercharge everything and bring in new technologies to reduce emissions and harm the reliability just to get low emissions figures

As for the twin air, it is certainly genius and although I've never driven one, it is meant to be a hoot to drive but the economy figures are poor in the real world

Raskolnikov

In the United Kingdom, diesel is about 10p more expensive than petrol, as opposed to Ireland where it's the other way around. I would expect that to change in the future though.

johnos1984

Raskolnikov wrote: »

In the United Kingdom, diesel is about 10p more expensive than petrol, as opposed to Ireland where it's the other way around. I would expect that to change in the future though.

I noticed that on my travels this weekend and hence why I imagine it will be adjusted in future budgets

Dai John

Methinks you are a little out of touch with the modern diesel cars.The common rail diesel takes some beating for economy.

mike65

Thats always been true in the UK, the petrol/derv gap here used to be big - 20% 15-20 years ago

johnos1984

Dai John wrote: »

Methinks you are a little out of touch with the modern diesel cars.The common rail diesel takes some beating for economy.

It sure does, and it takes some beating with repair costs also.

The older diesel engines were far cheaper and better built than the modern ones.........and yes I do drive a modern diesel

C4Kid

VW TSI are pretty cool and the latest ones have very good performance almost like the TDI's.

ottostreet

I very much hope petrol becomes the new diesel!

Cheap and rare(r) five years ago!
Now fuel consumption is all thats really cared about

johnos1984

C4Kid wrote: »

VW TSI are pretty cool and the latest ones have very good performance almost like the TDI's.

I would be concerned about their reliability long term though. Wasn't there issues with early ones? Would they be good long term is what I'm wondering.

C4Kid

would be concerned about their reliability long term though.

Valid point, and they seem to be complicated engines.

I don't have one, but came across this while wondering how they worked:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvysuD5MFow&feature=related

Leonard Hofstadter

johnos1984 wrote: »

I would be concerned about their reliability long term though. Wasn't there issues with early ones? Would they be good long term is what I'm wondering.

There are basically two versions of the TSI - those with a turbo and those with both a turbo and a supercharger (1.4 140/150/170/180 PS models).

The former are reliable enough - certainly they're not any worse than most VW petrol engines, and better than quite a few, such as the 75 PS 1.4 16V which basically falls apart at 100,000 miles.

The latter are horrendously unreliable though, especially the higher output models. These seem to have a habit of lunching the supercharger and sometimes the turbocharger as well.

EPM

johnos1984 wrote: »

It sure does, and it takes some beating with repair costs also.

The older diesel engines were far cheaper and better built than the modern ones.........and yes I do drive a modern diesel

My modern diesels dpf bit the dust today. Thank feck for the warranty.

unkel

EPM wrote: »

My modern diesels dpf bit the dust today. Thank feck for the warranty.

Most of them on modern diesels last until just outside of warranty. €1,000 cha-ching

Most DMFs on modern diesels with a manual gearbox last until just outside of warranty. €2,000 cha-ching

I think I'll stay with petrol meself. The fuel is a bit more expensive, but overall I'll be saving myself a fortune...

crosstownk

The trend appears to toward diesel at the moment. I think most people go for diesel based on the fuel economy and the lower road tax.

I'll bet that if most 'diesel converts' did a break even analysis, they'd find that the cost of ownership of a diesel is higher in most cases for low mileage drivers.

C4Kid

such as the 75 PS 1.4 16V which basically falls apart at 100,000 miles.

The very one I have with suprisingly 140,000 Miles:pac: Rocker head gasket being replaced next week, no other major repairs to the engine. Serviced regularly though.

I'll bet that if most 'diesel converts' did a break even analysis, they'd find that the cost of ownership of a diesel is higher in most cases for low mileage drivers.

Both My Dad's diesel and My 1.4 were fully serviced last week.

Mine was €150
Diesel was €250

JimmyCrackCorn

unkel wrote: »

Most of them on modern diesels last until just outside of warranty. €1,000 cha-ching

Most DMFs on modern diesels with a manual gearbox last until just outside of warranty. €2,000 cha-ching

I think I'll stay with petrol meself. The fuel is a bit more expensive, but overall I'll be saving myself a fortune...

Petrol may be slightly more expensive to drive but the driving feel is far far better than diesel.

If you want economy buy a diesel. If you want a responsive rev happy engine that feels great through the rev range buy a petrol.

R.O.R

Petrol is dead. The resale values we are getting on 08 BMW's with low tax (€302) is appaling compared to the price we're getting for similar mileage Diesels. Quite a bit more than the original price difference.

The reliability of said BMW petrols with the low emissions make 2006 Passat's look bullet proof. Every single one (316,318,320,325,523) we have that is fitted with start/stop has been plagued with issues. We've replaced 13 injectors in a 523, taken 2 316's and 3 318's off the road at considerable expense to us.

Not having any issues with VW 1.4TSi's, but I wouldn't expect them to make anywhere near what the diesel equivalents make.

johnos1984

R.O.R wrote: »

The reliability of said BMW petrols with the low emissions make 2006 Passat's look bullet proof. Every single one (316,318,320,325,523) we have that is fitted with start/stop has been plagued with issues. We've replaced 13 injectors in a 523, taken 2 316's and 3 318's off the road at considerable expense to us.

This is exactly they worry i was getting at when i started the thread. generally these petrol engines in the past were very good simple and easily repaired but once all the emissions equipment gets strapped on will it end up making the choice between a petrol and a diesel a no brainer based on long term reliability/cost

The Bishop Basher

R.O.R wrote: »

Petrol is dead. The resale values we are getting on 08 BMW's with low tax (€302) is appaling compared to the price we're getting for similar mileage Diesels. Quite a bit more than the original price difference.

For now.

Everyone is jumping on the Diesel bandwagon. I can't get over the look on peoples faces when they hear I just bought another petrol car. Truth is, I weighed up the cost of petrol versus diesel and petrol is cheaper in the long run for me. I also just recently sold a 520i and an E240 petrol very quickly so the market is alive and well. Fads come and go, a bit like suv's in the boom, and as the cons of diesel (more expensive to buy, higher maintenance costs etc.) are combined with a significant increase in taxes and fuel costs the tide will slowly turn. If that does happen, there will be a glut of second hand diesels on the market and prices will drop significantly. I doubt petrol will ever regain it's original top spot but I do think it will find some relevance again as circumstances change and people start to think for themselves rather then follow crowd.

alexmcred

After my experience with a 140 TSI Volkswagen engine never again will I touch a TSI super and turbo charged engine.

The Fiat multi-air technology looks interesting with a 170bhp petrol engine falling into band b tax (156)

langdang

Something i've been wondering about with stop/start and turboes (petrol or diesel) - surely this has implications for turbo bearings? And would increase the clogging of DPFs in the case of town driving diesels?