Hospital in Mahon could Close soon.

scuby

gciddy wrote: »

VHI often states that it won't provide coverage and then does once forced to. Tell me this, how can it say that there is enough private beds in Ireland and then at the same time offer Vincent's Private Hospital in Dublin coverage? VHI is in no position to determine whether there is enough private beds in Ireland. It is not a government regulator. VHI is an insurance company and it had no reason to deny providing coverage to CMC.

Lets switch this around! Can anyone give me a good reason why it was acceptable for VHI to not come to terms with CMC? Why it makes sense for its customers or for the populace of Cork? Or, how there is any POSITIVE outcome to the series of events that happened?

Is CMC closing its doors a good thing for Cork or for Ireland?

G

vincents private has been around for many years! VHI/Quinn/Aviva, are insurance companys who do not have to provide cover if they do not want to ? that their business..

check out the attached link, good read on why it would cost the vhi too much to cover it
http://www.politics.ie/health-social-affairs/153680-cork-medical-centre-faces-closure-row-vhi.html

scuby

gciddy wrote: »

Oh, and Galway Clinic has VHI coverage - if they were going on that model then VHI is an important part of their business plan.

What am I missing here?

Galway clinic is there how long ? since then, vhi has lost alot of money/customers, therfore cannot lose more money by covering extra hospitals

gciddy

Thanks for the interesting link, Scoby..

VHI is a joke and talk about a company run poorly! I don't get how they will lose money if they provide more coverage - if anything people will join VHI in order to gain access to the state-of-the-art hospital. I think VHI wants to lose customers either that or has no interest what so ever in being profitable.

Galway Clinic has been there since 2004 (I worked there as well) and VHI hasn't been making money or gaining customers for a long time. Didn't VHI just dramatically raise its premiums for its customers? Maybe I am looking at this too simplistically, but if I was running an insurance company I would want MORE customers and MORE competition among hospitals and not less....?

If I was a VHI customer I wouldn't stay one if they constantly take away my options for where I can receive care as a patient.

G

scuby

gciddy wrote: »

Thanks for the interesting link, Scoby..

VHI is a joke and talk about a company run poorly! I don't get how they will lose money if they provide more coverage - if anything people will join VHI in order to gain access to the state-of-the-art hospital. I think VHI wants to lose customers either that or has no interest what so ever in being profitable.

Galway Clinic has been there since 2004 (I worked there as well) and VHI hasn't been making money or gaining customers for a long time. Didn't VHI just dramatically raise its premiums for its customers? Maybe I am looking at this too simplistically, but if I was running an insurance company I would want MORE customers and MORE competition among hospitals and not less....?

If I was a VHI customer I wouldn't stay one if they constantly take away my options for where I can receive care as a patient.

G

Providing more coverage costs more money !! and if aviva/quinn have gained all the customers, how come their coverage of mahon is not enough ?
afaik, only one plan went up 45%, then rest were about the same as aviva/Quinn. dont forget medical inflation is lots more than the ordinary inflation you hear about in news etc

SimonPRepublic

scuby wrote: »

You stil have not clarified WHY last year they knew, and did not care vhi would not cover them...sorry for going over "old ground" but like a politician you still not have answered this

Vhi were in negotiations to cover CMC until the February. The Vhi Board gave it CMC approval in December and we informed of that by a Member of the Board. CMC were informed that an offer would be forthcoming in January and we have released the Minutes of this meeting. Further to the offer the CEO visited the facility in the middle of February. But, when he was informed of the desperate financial situation the hospital was in he thought it was a negotiating ploy, when, as you can see from what has unfolded, it was truth.

Anyway the hospital is gone now and there's nothing use picking over this that is going to change it.

SimonPRepublic

scuby wrote: »

they knew then no coverage !! and were going on the galway clinic model of self paying patients....

The percentage of self-payers in Galway, I am told, is a very small percentage.

There's a quote from Dr Sheehan, which also keeps getting brought up when he said Vhi was "a concern, but not a big one" This was given at the opening and then, when negotiations were going well with Vhi, it wasn't a big concern. But, as the negotiations took longer and longer it became a bigger and bigger concern until it THE main concern and a very real worry.

evilivor

SimonPalmer wrote: »

I certainly don't need anyone else to post on my behalf.

Didnt you just get banned? I didnt know Boards allowed baned persons to rejoin a thread under a new username.

SimonPRepublic

scuby wrote: »

vVHI/Quinn/Aviva, are insurance companys who do not have to provide cover if they do not want to ? that their business..

True and nobody can force them, but as Vhi originally stated when the Sheehan's started negotiating with them, they need competition with the hospitals in Cork in order to drive down prices. That's how the market works. The reason there's been no new hospitals in Cork is because the two current VhI hospitals have had it so good, they've not had any competition so why waste money building new facilities. The reason Bons have put forward plans for an new extension is no coincidence, it's because of the threat from CMC. It was the same in Galway, the Bons had and old hospital but built a new one to try and counter the competition from Galway Clinic.

Do you know they Bon Secours still charges Vhi for a 'per diem' rate, that's per overnight stay for patients? So it's in their interests to have patients in their hospital as long as possible. Vhi wanted this changed. CMC on the other hand agreed a fix price per procedurewith Vhi , so Vhi had total control over the costs. That's just commercial sense.

SimonPRepublic

evilivor wrote: »

Didnt you just get banned? I didnt know Boards allowed baned persons to rejoin a thread under a new username.

No, the previous account was banned because it used a company name so Boards viewed that account as a company one, so my company has been banned, not me personally. Although from the mods post it seems it was banned for not following instructions, which is not true because I did contact them via email as soon as I saw the request to do so, which was yesterday, and before I made further posts.

As an individual I have just as many rights to be on here as you. At least I'm being transparent in who I am and not hiding my identity like you are. I have nothing to hide.

evilivor

SimonPalmer wrote: »

As an individual I have just as many rights to be on here as you. At least I'm being transparent in who I am and not hiding my identity like you are. I have nothing to hide.

Thank you for clarifying - I just wanted to establish the propriety of posting from another identity twice in the same thread - behaviour which would have you banned on most message boards.

I have no interest in the substantive issue here and you, as publicist for Sheehan's have every right to post positive things about them and their facility. What I do have an issue with is your posting negative things about other medical facilities when they, apparently, don't have their publicists on here to defend their reputations.

scuby

SimonPalmer wrote: »

It was the same in Galway, the Bons had and old hospital but built a new one to try and counter the competition from Galway Clinic.

Do you know they Bon Secours still charges Vhi for a 'per diem' rate, that's per overnight stay for patients? So it's in their interests to have patients in their hospital as long as possible. Vhi wanted this changed. CMC on the other hand agreed a fix price per procedurewith Vhi , so Vhi had total control over the costs. That's just commercial sense.

well i presume as the bons in galway was so old as you previously put it, they had to re-build it to bring it up to your standards.. and lots of hospitals bill as you put it"per diem"....and publics for that matter, plus a patient will only be covered when medically necessary, not as long as the bons or any other hospital want.
There is no simple fact if any business,unless you have it in writing it ain't worth anything.. so until they got approval they should not have gone ahead with the building.

SimonPRepublic

evilivor wrote: »

What I do have an issue with is your posting negative things about other medical facilities when they, apparently, don't have their publicists on here to defend their reputations.

How do you know their publicists haven't already been some of the posters on this thread? They probably have been judging from the content. But whilst Boards continue to allow people to post anonymously we'll never know. I have been open about who I am but maybe they're not being as open and transparent. They also probably feel that anonymous posting in favour of their clients are more effective because people will assume they're coming from third parties.

The Bons Secours pays a very big PR company a lot of money to do their PR, and any PR worth their salt working for them will have received Google Alerts highlighting them to this thread as soon as it mentioned Bons Secours. So I would assume, and always had assumed, that some of the posts on here are in fact people from the Bons, or their PRs, defending them.

As an aside I think that that forums should tackle the issue of anonymity otherwise you can't have a valuable debate as you can do when you know a persons identity. That's why Twitter works so well because most of the people on there have genuine identities; there are very few anonymous profiles. So the debates are great and you can judge the comments based on that persons background in the same way you can judge my comments because you know that I have detailed knowledge of the sector and you're aware that I have a particularly bias, although I have always tried to just give the facts.

scuby

SimonPalmer wrote: »

As an aside I think that that forums should tackle the issue of anonymity otherwise you can't have a valuable debate as you can do when you know a persons identity. That's why Twitter works so well because most of the people on there have genuine identities; there are very few anonymous profiles.

OK, well my real name is Jerry from
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm928881664/tt0118883 :cool:

SimonPRepublic

scuby wrote: »

so until they got approval they should not have gone ahead with the building.

As I've said, Vhi has never ever approved a hospital in Ireland before it has been built. It can't and won't.

Think about it? It can approve a facility off-plan on the basis of a few CGI's and business plan, without knowing what the quality of the finished facility will be like and what staff will be employed to run it. That would be lunacy on their part. The whole system is now screwed with a Catch 22 situation. The banks will now not give approval for funding without Vhi and because Vhi won't give pre-approval we will not longer have any new hospitals built under the current system. Thankfully Minister Reilly is going to change it.

SimonPRepublic

evilivor wrote: »

I just wanted to establish the propriety of posting from another identity twice in the same thread - behaviour which would have you banned on most message boards.

From what Boards said I'm not posting twice in the same thread because they view the users as two distinct entities. They viewed the other user profile as a company and stated that companies had to get permission before posting. Therefore, they banned that company account and as a result the company can no longer post.

I just happen to be an employee of that company, but I am posting here as an individual. These are not my rules, they're theirs and I respect that. I tried to tell them that the other account was an individual's account but they didn't believe me and insisted it was actually a company, hence the ban.

SimonPRepublic

scuby wrote: »

OK, well my real name is Jerry from
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm928881664/tt0118883 :cool:

I don't get you?

shanieboy01

(A) Jimmy (main brother behind the Galway Clinic) stayed out of the Cork one. This rang huge alarm bells for me. The guy is a very clever dude and I knew something would be up very soon.

(B). I hear its end game down there now. pity.

parsi

SimonPalmer wrote: »

How do you know their publicists haven't already been some of the posters on this thread? They probably have been judging from the content. But whilst Boards continue to allow people to post anonymously we'll never know. I have been open about who I am but maybe they're not being as open and transparent. They also probably feel that anonymous posting in favour of their clients are more effective because people will assume they're coming from third parties.

The Bons Secours pays a very big PR company a lot of money to do their PR, and any PR worth their salt working for them will have received Google Alerts highlighting them to this thread as soon as it mentioned Bons Secours. So I would assume, and always had assumed, that some of the posts on here are in fact people from the Bons, or their PRs, defending them.

As an aside I think that that forums should tackle the issue of anonymity otherwise you can't have a valuable debate as you can do when you know a persons identity. That's why Twitter works so well because most of the people on there have genuine identities; there are very few anonymous profiles. So the debates are great and you can judge the comments based on that persons background in the same way you can judge my comments because you know that I have detailed knowledge of the sector and you're aware that I have a particularly bias, although I have always tried to just give the facts.

I'd like you to retract that statement.

If you look back over this thread the shilling for the hospital was all coming from single-digit post accounts whilst the contrarian view was coming from regular Cork posters with a long history of posting.

SimonPalmer

SimonPalmer wrote: »

Do you know they Bon Secours still charges Vhi for a 'per diem' rate, that's per overnight stay for patients? So it's in their interests to have patients in their hospital as long as possible. Vhi wanted this changed. CMC on the other hand agreed a fix price per procedurewith Vhi , so Vhi had total control over the costs. That's just commercial sense.

Commercial sense, lol, the Mahon hospital is closing due to the lack of it.

castie

SimonPalmer wrote: »

From what Boards said I'm not posting twice in the same thread because they view the users as two distinct entities. They viewed the other user profile as a company and stated that companies had to get permission before posting. Therefore, they banned that company account and as a result the company can no longer post.

I just happen to be an employee of that company, but I am posting here as an individual. These are not my rules, they're theirs and I respect that. I tried to tell them that the other account was an individual's account but they didn't believe me and insisted it was actually a company, hence the ban.

Simon you were instructed by me when banned to contact me.
You have not followed these instructions what so ever.

Account banned again until discussion takes place.

Darragh

Beruthiel wrote: »

Republicpr.ie

Please contact hello@boards.ie
We do not allow companies to post on this site without direct authorisation from the Boards.ie office.

Simon's account has now been authorised by the office.

Cheers

Darragh

Darragh

SimonPRepublic wrote: »

From what Boards said I'm not posting twice in the same thread because they view the users as two distinct entities.

They viewed the other user profile as a company and stated that companies had to get permission before posting.

Therefore, they banned that company account and as a result the company can no longer post.

I just happen to be an employee of that company, but I am posting here as an individual.

These are not my rules, they're theirs and I respect that. I tried to tell them that the other account was an individual's account but they didn't believe me and insisted it was actually a company, hence the ban.

Hi Simon

As per my email to you this morning, following your various (inaccurate) posts on twitter over the weekend - we have received no email from you about your account. Could you resend it to me please? darragh@boards.ie. Not saying you didn't send it - just that it never hit the inbox.

Furthermore, your account was banned as per our Terms of Use that you signed up to -

Boards.ie is made available for your personal, non-commercial use only, except where otherwise authorised by us.

SimonPRepublic wrote: »

I just happen to be an employee of that company, but I am posting here as an individual.

Can you please clarify for me whether the Cork Medical Centre are a client of yours or your company's and that you both

• have permission from them to post?
• are being paid to represent them on this thread?

This is to avoid any allegations like you raised earlier.

SimonPRepublic wrote: »

I tried to tell them that the other account was an individual's account but they didn't believe me and insisted it was actually a company, hence the ban.

When you sign up under a company name, it is assumed you are posting representing the company and not yourself.

You never contacted the office - or even the moderators - for permission to post before you did.

You were asked to do so on the first day you posted and you didn't.

SimonPRepublic wrote: »

Although from the mods post it seems it was banned for not following instructions, which is not true because I did contact them via email as soon as I saw the request to do so, which was yesterday, and before I made further posts.

Your original posts were March 10. You can understand why you were banned for not having your account authorised almost a month later. Even with your email that would have been on Saturday when the office was closed.

I accept this is hardly the easiest way of posting but it's the only way we can accurately verify who people are. Given your comments about anonymity issues, I wonder if you'll agree it's better than not doing it at all?

SimonPRepublic wrote: »

These are not my rules, they're theirs and I respect that.

I hope so - though contacting us directly by email - hello@boards.ie - to me - darragh@boards.ie - or even directly on twitter (like was suggested) rather than the various tweets might have been a better way of showing that respect?

I hope you can use Boards.ie to its best advantage now. I feel these issues need to be clarified though.

Thanks

Darragh

SimonPRepublic

Originally Posted by Darragh
Can you please clarify for me whether the Cork Medical Centre are a client of yours or your company's and that you both

• have permission from them to post?
• are being paid to represent them on this thread?

Hi Darragh,

Thank you for reinstating me and clarifying the situation. I take your points on Board, and totally agree with them - I didn't mean to cause offence and I'm sorry if I did.

In reference to your points above: neither Cork Medical Centre, nor the Sheehan Medical, are currently a client of mine. I have not been paid to represent them on here, or elsewhere, for a considerable amount of time. I am posting here in a personal capacity and providing my insight as someone who worked extensively on the project. I didn't realise I needed permission from them to post in a personal capacity, but they I know them well and they are aware of the debate and don't have an issue with it.

All the best,

Simon