Are magpie numbers out of control

older i get better i was

Hi I live in Dub 12 near a sports ground and we are over run with maggers, we get sparrows robbins, tits blackbirds and maybe some others but overall the maggers are everywhere, i think if there was less maggers there'd be more of the smaller types around, am I right

kildare.17hmr

yeah magpies will steel eggs out of nests and torture song birds. we had loads in my area before and no songbirds really but now its changed not many mags and loads of everything else

Mothman

There was a thread last year that dealt with the issue of Magpies and songbirds
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055907698&highlight=magpie

Perhaps read this before we go over the same ground again.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Short answer: No, Magpie numbers are not out of control. Statistics show numbers steady.

sables2

Not so sure where i live - a young magpie..(around a year old) has finished off a nest in the last few months and roosting above my house eave's now between the NTL cables. We have more and more young birds each coming year for sure. A pest in my opinion. But, i believe they're not a real threat to the finches or tits....(i may be corrected) They DON'T stray far from their home either... sedentary!

paulusdu

Funny though, i live in Galway, and i see very few Magpies around our town, I lived in Dublin for years and out near St Annes Park it sounded like machine gun fire going off all the time because of the huge numbers of Magpies.

Feargal as Luimneach

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

yeah magpies will steel eggs out of nests and torture song birds. we had loads in my area before and no songbirds really but now its changed not many mags and loads of everything else

What survey techniques did you use when doing your survey??

Dusty87

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

What survey techniques did you use when doing your survey??

he just commenting with what he seen from his own eyes fearghal. Plenty around me, decent number of songbirds too. Starting to see the mags search the ditches now. Thought it might be bit early

Feargal as Luimneach

Dusty87 wrote: »

he just commenting with what he seen from his own eyes fearghal. Plenty around me, decent number of songbirds too. Starting to see the mags search the ditches now. Thought it might be bit early

Exactly a biased unscientific opinion......

Mothman

Any links to recent (past 10 years) surveys?

StephenHendry

they're very common in dublin where i live , but there are other , far more serious threats to the smaller birds than just the magpies

we've had 2 very harsh winters,
habitat destruction -(ongoing)
cats for example kill thousands of small birds, they pose a great threat than magpies

Dusty87

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Exactly a biased unscientific opinion......

so they dont raid nests and kill songbirds?? Is that what your sayin? Or are you saying he's wrong about where he lives?? <Mod Snip>
Mod note
If you have an issue with a post please report it

Dusty87

StephenHendry wrote: »

they're very common in dublin where i live , but there are other , far more serious threats to the smaller birds than just the magpies

we've had 2 very harsh winters,
habitat destruction -(ongoing)
cats for example kill thousands of small birds, they pose a great threat than magpies

i would agree with ya. The frost and snow this year was very hard on them. Everytime i was at my ma's, there was fresh remains of songbirds around the yard from cats. They were easy picking for them i reckon, more concentrating on food than predators.

magicbastarder

StephenHendry wrote: »

cats for example kill thousands of small birds, they pose a great threat than magpies

cats have been discounted as having a minor effect on songbird numbers bythe RSPB - i think the conclusion is that they take easy pickings which probably would not have survived anyway.

edit: found a link:
http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/gardening/unwantedvisitors/cats/birddeclines.aspx

blackstairsboy

The magpie is a serious threat to songbirds but not the only threat as previously pointed out harsh weather and predation by cats and sparrowhalks also takes its toll.
Magpie numbers need to be controlled both for the protection of songbirds, livestock and also because the magpie is not a native bird to Ireland it only arrived in the late 17th and early 18th century. Thankfully in most rural areas it is now being controlled by trapping, shooting and up until recently poisining.
Birdwatchers and other self proclaimed wildlife experts must realise that their numbers have to be controlled and not to listen to anybody who tells you that magpies do not do damage to and predate on other bird species.

johngalway

They used to be out of control around here. Until we started controlling them. Still plenty maggies around, but not in the groups of 8, 9, 10 as before.

magicbastarder

Mothman wrote: »

There was a thread last year that dealt with the issue of Magpies and songbirds
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=406

Perhaps read this before we go over the same ground again.

that link just points back to the forum, not a particular thread.

i think someone pointed out in the thread you mean that if it was peregrine falcons taking chicks, we'd be happy, but that since it's magpies, people are not; people generally don't like crows.

blackstairsboy

The magpie first arrived in Ireland in the late 17th century or early 18th century. The first flock was observed in Wexford and it is believed that a massive storm blew the flock across the Irish sea.
I do not know how long a bird has to be in a country before it is considered native but what I do know is that birdwatchers consider the pheasant to be non native and that was brought to this country by the Normans. So in that case the magpie is not a native bird to Ireland.

BengaLover

We have TONS, attracted no doubt by the food we scatter for the hens. As a result we have had a few baby chicks stolen by them.
I bought a bird scarer thing that is basically a special line on a reel that you string up and it makes a sound in the breeze, will post results if it works!
I wouldnt mind the magpies so much in the chicken run, cos they do clean up what the hens leave behind and I havent ever seen any rats about so they must be doing a good job, just a shame that they are a threat when we have chicks.

Mothman

magicbastarder wrote: »

that link just points back to the forum, not a particular thread.

i think someone pointed out in the thread you mean that if it was peregrine falcons taking chicks, we'd be happy, but that since it's magpies, people are not; people generally don't like crows.

Sorry
Here's the thread

Feargal as Luimneach

blackstairsboy wrote: »

The magpie first arrived in Ireland in the late 17th century or early 18th century. The first flock was observed in Wexford and it is believed that a massive storm blew the flock across the Irish sea.
I do not know how long a bird has to be in a country before it is considered native but what I do know is that birdwatchers consider the pheasant to be non native and that was brought to this country by the Normans. So in that case the magpie is not a native bird to Ireland.

Pheasants were introduced by people therefore they are not native. Magpies got here on their own so they are native.
By your logic little egret, med gull and collared dove are all alien species while infact they are native..........

kildare.17hmr

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

What survey techniques did you use when doing your survey??

feargal really? where did you see me mention a survey? I told the op what i see out in the fields where i spend most of my free time, are you telling me im wrong?

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Exactly a biased unscientific opinion......

biased against magpies??? come on lad seriously. i answered the op's question and all your doin is slatin answers. im sorry my FACTUAL reply was not "scientific":rolleyes:enough for you so next time you ask a question ill be sure to make more of an effort

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

blackstairsboy wrote: »

The magpie first arrived in Ireland in the late 17th century or early 18th century.I do not know how long a bird has to be in a country before it is considered native but what I do know is that birdwatchers consider the pheasant to be non native and that was brought to this country by the Normans. So in that case the magpie is not a native bird to Ireland.

The distinction is that Magpies were NOT introduced but populated the country naturally.

But here we go with the old Magpies are bad. Magpies kill songbirds Thread all over again. We'll probably be dragged into the old Cat debate again too. :rolleyes:

Ditch

Raul Lazy Self-discipline wrote: »

We'll probably be dragged into the old Cat debate again too. :rolleyes:

And what's the gist of that one then?

littlebug

Ditch wrote: »

And what's the gist of that one then?

Lets not go there

Stay on topic of magpies please folks :)

Birdnuts

I have to say that Magpie densities do appear to be very high in certain Dublin parks, notably Phoenix,Corkagh and the the botanic gardens.

IMO the OPW should be trapping as part of their management of these magificient state properties:)

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Since at least the 1960s Magpie densities have always been higher in Urban Areas where natural predation is reduced. Numbers at present show no increase. Remember too that population trends have to be measured over several years.

Birdnuts

Raul Lazy Self-discipline wrote: »

Since at least the 1960s Magpie densities have always been higher in Urban Areas where natural predation is reduced. .

That would be my reading of the problem in urbanized areas.


<mod snip>

Merch

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

What survey techniques did you use when doing your survey??

Well from what I observed, dispatching a number of magpies, the result was an increase in no.s of small birds and magpies stayed away for years

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Pheasants were introduced by people therefore they are not native. Magpies got here on their own so they are native.
By your logic little egret, med gull and collared dove are all alien species while infact they are native..........

How can that be true, they only arrived in the last few hundred years therefore they are not native

A lot Irish wild animals aren't native but have been around for a lot longer than a few hundred years.

From what I have been told by an old English Gent, magpies were kept in check in Great Britain by gamekeepers until the outbreak of World war 1, when most men enlisted and were then conscripted, minding estates wasn't a big a priority and the magpie population took off.

Mothman

Quite how A thread on magpies has evolved into a thread on poisoning, I don't know.
I'm removing this aspect from this thread.

pm me if I'm missing something

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Merch wrote: »

How can that be true, they only arrived in the last few hundred years therefore they are not native

A lot Irish wild animals aren't native but have been around for a lot longer than a few hundred years..

There seems to be some confusion as to what a Native species is. Accepting only those which survived, or appeared shortly after, the last Ice Age is incorrect.
A native species is any organism that is living in an area for entirely natural reasons, with no human intervention involved. This may be because the organism evolved in that environment or because it migrated by a variety of means. By contrast, a non-native species is introduced by humans or as a result of human activity. Of course this still leaves some species up for debate but the underlying principle ensures Magpies the ranking of a bird native to Ireland.

homerhop

From a non scientific and only visual observation, I have passed comments over the last few weeks to friends and family about the increased amount of magpies that are apparent along roadsides.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

homerhop wrote: »

the increased amount of magpies that are apparent along roadsides.

Yes, along the roadside as they scavange for food that they can't find in the fields or hedgerows at the moment. They move about but their overall numbers don't increase because you happen to see more in a particular situation.

I see a white horse every day but not all horses are white.

homerhop

Raul Lazy Self-discipline wrote: »

Yes, along the roadside as they scavange for food that they can't find in the fields or hedgerows at the moment. They move about but their overall numbers don't increase because you happen to see more in a particular situation.

I see a white horse every day but not all horses are white.

Correct and not all frogs are green but neither statement has anything to do with magpies.

I am aware that they are scavengers, it was meerly an observation on my part that I am seeing more of them that I had this time last year. Not just on roadsides,I have also noticed an increase in their numbers in woodland by my house farmland around the area also. Can you please enlighten someone of my lower status as to how you determine that their numbers have not increased?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

homerhop wrote: »

Not just on roadsides,I have also noticed an increase in their numbers in woodland by my house farmland around the area also. Can you please enlighten someone of my lower status as to how you determine that their numbers have not increased?

That's different as you initially referenced roadside only.

As for knowing about their numbers: we count them. Me and hundreds like me. Several times a year for many years.

Grid.

I live in the city and haven't seen any in ages!

Mothman

Grey Squirrel posts moved to new thread

Feargal as Luimneach

blackstairsboy wrote: »

I spend every spare minute of my time working the countryside as both a farmer and a fieldsports enthusiast and I have never seen a birdwatcher or had a bird watcher approach me looking for permission to watch birds on my land and neither has my father before me. In fact I have never even heard of a farmer in my area who has been asked by a birdwatcher to cross his land. Do not get me wrong I do not have anything against the birdwatching community and I respect some of the work they have done. But what I want to know is where you and 100s others have done all this counting as it certinatly has not been anywhere near me.
As a shooting author once said he had spent 60 years hunting game all over Ireland and in all different terrains and he never once encountered a birdwatcher. So the question is where is this counting done????

http://www.birdwatchireland.ie/Ourwork/SurveysProjects/Atlas/tabid/487/Default.aspx

magicbastarder

Merch wrote: »

How can that be true, they only arrived in the last few hundred years therefore they are not native

it's not the length of time they got here which determines whether they are native, it's whether or not they arrived by natural or artificial means. it's believed they were blown here, thus they're native.

spokes

Had a Thrush nesting in a small tree just outside my door and one morning there was a hell of a ruckus outside and a magpie was after snatching two of the chicks and leggin it. They were nearly fully grown too. After frighting him away he dropped them but the brazen <mod snip> came back 30 seconds later looking for his dropped loot...

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

spokes wrote: »

After frighting him away he dropped them but the brazen <my snip for bad language> came back 30 seconds later looking for his dropped loot...

That's Nature. At the risk of reviving to old Magpie demon thread, why chase it off? Why be selective in what birds you feel should live?

bogtreader

My tuppence worth is magpies are neccessary they feed on the dead rats,mice
various other roadkill.
My issue is that people put to much into old superstitions and the like.
And also put human traits on to animals cute likkle birdies singing lovely songs
they are not. They are singing this is my territory get out.

kildare.17hmr

bogtreader wrote: »

My tuppence worth is magpies are neccessary they feed on the dead rats,mice
various other roadkill.
My issue is that people put to much into old superstitions and the like.
And also put human traits on to animals cute likkle birdies singing lovely songs
they are not. They are singing this is my territory get out.

i dont think any1 here is puttin human traits on birds they were just sayin they liked hvin song birds around. would you prefer a few song birds singin or a few magpies squakin?

bogtreader

I put out food for songbirds also food for crows,rooks and magpies.
Mostly scraps for them you cannot put one over the other.
They are not going wipe out all song birds

Feargal as Luimneach

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

. would you prefer a few song birds singin or a few magpies squakin?

The corncrake has a noisy rasping crex call, but it's the most beautiful sound in the country. Just because the magpie doesn't have an "attractive" song doesn't mean it's not a beautiful bird in it's own way.....

magicbastarder

the magpie is possibly one of the most intelligent native animal we have. maybe people don't like seeing traits in them which are often associated with humans.

Mothman

Recent posts regarding access to lands for counts etc have been moved to new thread

If anyone has suggestion for a better title for this new thread, I'm all ears.

magicbastarder

http://www.cracked.com/article_19042_6-terrifying-ways-crows-are-way-smarter-than-you-think.html

Graces7

I dislike magpies intensely; my choice and yes there are more of them than there were a few years ago, based on what I see. Which is all I trust.

A local market gardener traps them as at the last count he had 23 there. In one small area.

My policy is to deter them. One of the dogs is trained to "see them off" and as soon as their din starts, off she goes. This has always worked.

As does banging pans under the trees where they are seeking to nest. We have tall trees here and a colony of crows and even their din is better than the magpies.

If they stayed with roadkill, fine. But they don't.

magicbastarder

Graces7 wrote: »

based on what I see. Which is all I trust.

you refuse to trust scientific research?

Graces7

magicbastarder wrote: »

you refuse to trust scientific research?

Of course....Old saying, "Lies, damn lies and statistics.."

A "good" survey can be "interpreted" in different ways.

That is my experience in a very long life.

What matters to me is where I live and the situation I see around me. And there are too many magpies for me to tolerate. Period. OK with you? Thank you!