Are magpie numbers out of control

magicbastarder

Graces7 wrote: »

A "good" survey can be "interpreted" in different ways.

that's fair enough - because i can agree with you in the sense that i can intepret your survey in a different way to you.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Graces7 wrote: »

I dislike magpies intensely; my choice and yes there are more of them than there were a few years ago, based on what I see. Which is all I trust.

A local market gardener traps them as at the last count he had 23 there. In one small area.


If they stayed with roadkill, fine. But they don't.

A "good" survey can be "interpreted" in different ways.

That is my experience in a very long life.

I can't understand how people can openly dislike a particular species and still have any interest in, or consideration for, Nature. But no matter, that's your choice.

The market gardener has more birds to worry about than Magpies. Their diet, while it does include some grain, berries, and fruit, is more dominated by insects, rodents, carrion, eggs and nestlings. They actually rid the fields of pests that can seriously impact on crop. Wood Pigeon, Bullfinch, Jackdaws and many others are a much greater threat to market gardening than Magpies.

Magpies are despised by many as they are wrongly blamed for the widespread decline in many of our songbirds by preying on their eggs and nestlings. In fact, many songbirds are in decline owing to poor survival rates after leaving the nest, and changing farmiing methods, or land use, which has nothing to do with Magpies. Also, research in Britain has shown that Jays are responsible for taking as many eggs and nestlings as the Magpies, but they do so less conspicuously and without blame. Should we dislike Jays too? Magpies are noisy and it is so obvious when they are trying to raid a nest but other birds and mammals do the same with less noise and, usually go undected. Should we add Pine Martens,Hedgehogs and Red Squirrels to our black list for the damage they do to nests? I think not.

So, you want a wild bird to stick to eating what humans kill on the roads?? Really?

I fully accept that you may see more Magpies than you used to. It does not take from the fact that their numbers are holding steady in the country, as a whole, since the 1980s. It's not playing with figures. It's a simple count organised on specific dates in specific areas. My experience over a long life too gives me full confidence in the survey results both here and the UK. If I count 45 Magpies in my 10Km square then there are 45 Magies there. If that's 2 more than last year then it's 3 more than last year. No lies. No interpretation other than a 6.67% increase in that zone.

Graces7

Raul Lazy Self-discipline wrote: »

I can't understand how people can openly dislike a particular species and still have any interest in, or consideration for, Nature. But no matter, that's your choice.

The market gardener has more birds to worry about than Magpies. Their diet, while it does include some grain, berries, and fruit, is more dominated by insects, rodents, carrion, eggs and nestlings. They actually rid the fields of pests that can seriously impact on crop. Wood Pigeon, Bullfinch, Jackdaws and many others are a much greater threat to market gardening than Magpies.

Magpies are despised by many as they are wrongly blamed for the widespread decline in many of our songbirds by preying on their eggs and nestlings. In fact, many songbirds are in decline owing to poor survival rates after leaving the nest, and changing farmiing methods, or land use, which has nothing to do with Magpies. Also, research in Britain has shown that Jays are responsible for taking as many eggs and nestlings as the Magpies, but they do so less conspicuously and without blame. Should we dislike Jays too? Magpies are noisy and it is so obvious when they are trying to raid a nest but other birds and mammals do the same with less noise and, usually go undected. Should we add Pine Martens,Hedgehogs and Red Squirrels to our black list for the damage they do to nests? I think not.

So, you want a wild bird to stick to eating what humans kill on the roads?? Really?

I fully accept that you may see more Magpies than you used to. It does not take from the fact that their numbers are holding steady in the country, as a whole, since the 1980s. It's not playing with figures. It's a simple count organised on specific dates in specific areas. My experience over a long life too gives me full confidence in the survey results both here and the UK. If I count 45 Magpies in my 10Km square then there are 45 Magies there. If that's 2 more than last year then it's 3 more than last year. No lies. No interpretation other than a 6.67% increase in that zone.

Raul Lazy Self-discipline; thee and me will have to agree once more to disagree as my perceptions are frequently different from yours. I know you do not "understand" and that is fine with me. And no I do not believe in the survey method. I know that you do and that does not bother me. Each to his or her own I and others see many more magpies than erstwhile - period.

My choice and that of many others is to dislike magpies and to act accordingly; our freedom and our decision.. My market gardener friend knows what he is about also.

Widen your views maybe.. Meanwhile my deterring magpies continues; they and I shall not inhabit the same area.

magicbastarder

Graces7 wrote: »

Widen your views maybe..

i would suggest that reaching the same conclusions as yourself is a narrowing, not a widening of views. you are only trusting your own observations and refusing to acknowledge other sources; that's not a broadminded approach by any definition.

magicbastarder

btw, what does your market gardener friend do with them after he traps them?

Feargal as Luimneach

magicbastarder wrote: »

btw, what does your market gardener friend do with them after he traps them?

Probably catches them in a larsen trap and then kills them............

kildare.17hmr

magicbastarder wrote: »

btw, what does your market gardener friend do with them after he traps them?

im guessin they get sent to magpie heaven.......

magicbastarder

that's what i expected. i just find the phrasing bemusing.

kildare.17hmr

magicbastarder wrote: »

that's what i expected. i just find the phrasing bemusing.

such as?

johngalway

magicbastarder wrote: »

maybe people don't like seeing traits in them which are often associated with humans.

"Four legs good, two legs bad."

Oh, wait...

:pac:

magicbastarder

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

such as?

i don't follow you?

kildare.17hmr

what was wrong with the phrasing???

Merch

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's not the length of time they got here which determines whether they are native, it's whether or not they arrived by natural or artificial means. it's believed they were blown here, thus they're native.

Perhaps my understanding of whats native or not isn't correct, if so i stand corrected, but we dont know how they got here, maybe they hitched a lift? lots of animals are introduced by hitching a lift on a ship or these days a plane, so if that were the case they maybe still non-native It might be less likely but it's not impossible.

magicbastarder wrote: »

the magpie is possibly one of the most intelligent native animal we have. maybe people don't like seeing traits in them which are often associated with humans.

You mean they are devious?

Mothman

I have a pair nesting in my garden. These are generally the only ones I see, but when I had an Osprey roosting in a tree nearby, there was at least 18 magpies in attendence

So while I sometimes see loads, I have generally not seen any change in numbers.

While I'm not fond of them, I usually don't hate them enough to persecute them ( I have done in the past) I think its the cleverness and as previous post mentioned, the devious nature of them, which now I actually admire. its an ongoing battle between them and saving our eggs. They have no issue going down tunnels in the barn and eating the eggs :eek:

When I have despatched them in the past, others come in to take their place, underlining that nature abhors a vacuum.

I so see an irony in that people don't like them because of their barbaric nature in raiding nests etc but are happy to be barbaric themselves by dispatching them.

magicbastarder

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

what was wrong with the phrasing???

the euphemistic aspect.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I don't necessarily agree that Magpies are devious in how they take prey. They are certainly obvious. They could never be accused of being sneaky or secretive; as they make their presence well known. It's this noisy manner which I think draws our attention to them. They are more brazen and brash than devious. Other predators are much more sneaky, and quiet in their hunting. Jays take many eggs and nestlings, so do Squirrels and Hedgehogs but how often have most people here seen it happen? A Pine marten will wipe out many nests in a season - do we complain? No, we delight in seeing a Pine Marten.
Sparrowhawks kill more birds than Magpies, but we delight in their agility. The Peregrine fills us with wonder when we watch it take its prey. But the Magpie flits noisely around our garden, openly hunting "our" garden birds, so we grow to despise them.
They are not my favourite birds. I shoo them from the feeding station from time to time as they will leave nothing for others to eat. But I admire their beauty, their colours and their ability to survive. I admire that they are a part of the Nature available to us in Ireland.

Vegeta

Are magpie numbers out of control here? In a single word, No.

After spending a month in New Zealand before Christmas and experiencing a country which has an amazing array of bird wildlife (historical lack of ground predators is a big reason for this), Ireland does strike me as having a bit of an imbalance. I didn't see a single rook or jackdaw there in a whole month and thousands of miles of traveling. Must have seen 50-60 on the way to work this morning here. (On a side note their magpies (Australian Magpies) looked like hooded crows with white patches as opposed to the magpies here)

SO are magpie numbers out of control? No

Would I tolerate less corvids for the chance for other species to rise in numbers. Yes

Feargal as Luimneach

Vegeta wrote: »

Are magpie numbers out of control here? In a single word, No.

After spending a month in New Zealand before Christmas and experiencing a country which has an amazing array of bird wildlife (historical lack of ground predators is a big reason for this), Ireland does strike me as having a bit of an imbalance. I didn't see a single rook or jackdaw there in a whole month and thousands of miles of traveling. Must have seen 50-60 on the way to work this morning here. (On a side note their magpies (Australian Magpies) looked like hooded crows with white patches as opposed to the magpies here)

SO are magpie numbers out of control? No

Would I tolerate less corvids for the chance for other species to rise in numbers. Yes

.
There are no Jackdaws in New Zealand. They are an Eurasian species.

Vegeta

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

.
There are no Jackdaws in New Zealand. They are an Eurasian species.

So I learned over there after discussing it up with several tour guides.

Cardynal

Hi , i've been following this thread with interest over the last while , i'm probably a bit biased as i like all Corvids but i genuinely think that the magpie recevies a lot of bad press.
I live in a rural area with a large garden ( 1 acre + ) , and for 20 years i've been watching these birds with delight ,can have up to 8 or 10 in the garden somedays , now i know they are no angels and can be very cunning and sometimes cruel but in all honestly i can count on 1 hand the number of times i've seen them attack nests or juvenile birds , and just last year i had about 20 pairs of Blackbird , Blue Tit , Wren , Robin etc in the garden , and they will defend their nests with vigour when they have too.
I have a Sparrowhawk that comes around quite often and 100 magpies would'nt cause the panic that she does , also i've seen cats take numerous birds over the years , much more than the poor Maggie , now i know the songbirds have a tough time of it , but i've seen no decline in my area over the past while , numbers seem to remain steady and the Blackbirds whom the Magpies have an ongoing battle with are definitely holding their own.
Regards Tom.

Mothman

Raul Lazy Self-discipline wrote: »

I don't necessarily agree that Magpies are devious in how they take prey.

While I did say devious, I was referring in their battle with me
I have no issue with them preying on whatever, like I have no issue with Sparrowhawk targeting the bird table.

Birdnuts

I think the only long term sustaineable solution to the magpie/hoodie issue is to boost the numbers of scavanging raptors like Kites and buzzards that will compete for carrion sources like roadkill which gets many corvids through the winter. Plus buzzards will also prey on magpies and young crows. Indeed I've noticed myself that in areas of high buzzard density magpies/hoodies aren't half as bold or prone to gathering in large groups:)

kildare.17hmr

was just down in the oul lads place and he said to me there is loads of magpies around lately, said he counted 13 in his garden the other day!

Graces7

magicbastarder wrote: »

i would suggest that reaching the same conclusions as yourself is a narrowing, not a widening of views. you are only trusting your own observations and refusing to acknowledge other sources; that's not a broadminded approach by any definition.

Yes it is; the evidence of my eyes is everything.... Surveys are not worth the paper they are written on. SO often they contradict each other also.

You have only to read the diversity of experience on this thread to see the broad image that I also experience..

Interesting that the old rhyme re magpies only goes up to 7.

Graces7

magicbastarder wrote: »

btw, what does your market gardener friend do with them after he traps them?

Kills them...

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Graces7 wrote: »

Yes it is; the evidence of my eyes is everything.... Surveys are not worth the paper they are written on. SO often they contradict each other also.

You have only to read the diversity of experience on this thread to see the broad image that I also experience..

Interesting that the old rhyme re magpies only goes up to 7.

I would love you to direct me to contradictory survey results on Magpie population trends in Ireland (I'd even be interested in UK reports). All I can get agree with my own observations and my counts going back several decades, which show no increase since the 1980s. Any direction from you would be appreciated.

By the way: the rhyme continues: 8 a Wish, 9 a Kiss...;)

kildare.17hmr

Srameen I can accept tha fact that you say numbers have not incresed since the 80's BUT people are seeing more of them in certain areas.

magicbastarder

of *course* you're going to get localised increases, or decreases. what's dangerous is when people see an increase in their locality and conclude the increase is general.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

magicbastarder wrote: »

of *course* you're going to get localised increases, or decreases. what's dangerous is when people see an increase in their locality and conclude the increase is general.

That's the point exactly. Of course some people will see more, some less, and other no change. But people should not claim numbers are up generally based on localised or seasonal movements.

I'd love to know why there is such a reluctance to accept the fact that, as a whole, Magpie numbers are steady.

kildare.17hmr

why couldnt ya's say that in the first place instead of just sayin there is no increse????

Mothman

Raul Lazy Self-discipline wrote: »

That's the point exactly. Of course some people will see more, some less, and other no change. But people should not claim numbers are up generally based on localised or seasonal movements.

I'd love to know why there is such a reluctance to accept the fact that, as a whole, Magpie numbers are steady.

I think the call of the thread has been answered with what I've highlighted in bold as best summary.
Thread is closed, I see it as only covering same ground.