A genuine appeal to voters in Cork South Central

sok2005

problemchimp wrote: »

Why do we need 2 government jets? Highlighting the numerical stupidity of jets for a little country like ours.

Right then, thats all cleared up.

Guess they must keep the 2nd one for spare parts! Always thinking ahead, thats FF for ya! (Jest)

Kimono-Girl

Stark wrote: »

It's a county councillor's job to fix footpaths and potholes in the first instance. Absolutely ridiculous that TDs are concerning themselves with these issues rather than legislating.

Well to be fair if the councilors in county hall were doing their jobs the TD's wouldn't have to fix footpaths in donnybrook (and to be fair cork county hall is run by majority FG councilors, which if you think about it from what you've said sets a great example for how they will run the country), so when constituents come to TD's to complain and when it comes to their health and safety of course TD's are going to get involved to help if they can,

problemchimp wrote: »

No money left to build a bridge, your precious FF needed "2" government jets!

technically they belong to FG now, although if that is the case why did Enda use that helicopter paid for with tax-payers money to fly to Dublin??? :eek:

Copper23

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

Well to be fair if the councilors in county hall were doing their jobs the TD's wouldn't have to fix footpaths in donnybrook (and to be fair cork county hall is run by majority FG councilors, which if you think about it from what you've said sets a great example for how they will run the country), so when constituents come to TD's to complain and when it comes to their health and safety of course TD's are going to get involved to help if they can,



technically they belong to FG now, although if that is the case why did Enda use that helicopter paid for with tax-payers money to fly to Dublin??? :eek:

Completely irrelevant.

Still dodging the issue. These's TD's were the one's who voted and toed the line with the party to bring the country where it is now.

How is that excusable?
How does fixing a footpath make it excusable?
How can any of this possibly be put back on FG? They were not in the majority to vote.
Why did these TD's who are supposedly "above their parties actions" not vote against the party if they are above critisisim?
Why are people so selfish as to vote with their parish or family telling them "its always been this way" while giving two fingers to every other person in this country who is suffering as a result of their actions in power?

I probably won't expect an explaination... at least the footpath got a lump of concrete thrown over the crack. I'll probably be going back to my FG TD now to ask them to do it PROPERLY in the next year or so. :rolleyes:

problemchimp

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

Well to be fair if the councilors in county hall were doing their jobs the TD's wouldn't have to fix footpaths in donnybrook (and to be fair cork county hall is run by majority FG councilors, which if you think about it from what you've said sets a great example for how they will run the country), so when constituents come to TD's to complain and when it comes to their health and safety of course TD's are going to get involved to help if they can,



technically they belong to FG now, although if that is the case why did Enda use that helicopter paid for with tax-payers money to fly to Dublin??? :eek:

He probably had a better reason than Harney flying to Leitrim to cut the ribbon on her mates new off licence.A nd don't try to distance yourselves from Harney, she was a part of the FF spoofing machine.

CrystalLettuce

And we voted for him anyway, lol.

gotta love the Irish, stupidest people in western europe easily.

Kimono-Girl

problemchimp wrote: »

He probably had a better reason than Harney flying to Leitrim to cut the ribbon on her mates new off licence.A nd don't try to distance yourselves from Harney, she was a part of the FF spoofing machine.

He still is supposed to be setting an example to the electorate, not doing what Harney did, thats what got us here in the first place doing what those before us done,

you do realise i am not condoning or agreeing with what Fianna Fail as a party did? i am simply stating as an example a singular example that mcgrath himself worked hard to at the very least got a brand new entire footpath built all the way up the donnybrook hill making entrances to calderwood and montipellier road...etc safer to drive out of while catering to the saftey of those who before would cut through the estate who can now walk up the road on the new footpath.

yes he shouldn't have to interfere on this issue but the councilors weren't doing it and it needed to be done.

i have had very positive experiences when dealing with both mcgrath and martin along with a few other td's and for those questioning which party i am, yes i would have been Fianna Fail,(i agree the party needs reform) but i did vote labour and fine gael in this election along with the two guys i am defending here.

Stark

Wow, a brand new entire footpath. Ffs, I could have come round with the cement and shovels myself and we could all still have a solvent country.

"Destroy the country and still top the polls". What kind of message would that have sent if the rest of the country adopted the same selfish mindset? Probably payrises all round for every FF TD for a start not to mention a return to levels of corruption not seen since Haughey's time.

Copper23

I love how not one challenge I put to the debate really gets answered. Why would someone start an debate over something and then refuse to answer valid points when challenged. Sounds almost like some politics.

sok2005

Copper23 wrote: »

Completely irrelevant.

Still dodging the issue. These's TD's were the one's who voted and toed the line with the party to bring the country where it is now.

How is that excusable?
How does fixing a footpath make it excusable?
How can any of this possibly be put back on FG? They were not in the majority to vote.
Why did these TD's who are supposedly "above their parties actions" not vote against the party if they are above critisisim?
Why are people so selfish as to vote with their parish or family telling them "its always been this way" while giving two fingers to every other person in this country who is suffering as a result of their actions in power?

I probably won't expect an explaination... at least the footpath got a lump of concrete thrown over the crack. I'll probably be going back to my FG TD now to ask them to do it PROPERLY in the next year or so. :rolleyes:

Copper23, Id like to jump in here and try my best to give you some answers to your extremely important questions:

How does fixing a footpath make it excusable? - Footpaths are important, they are the vehicle of the pedestrian!

How can any of this possibly be put back on FG? They were not in the majority to vote. - I answer this question with another question....how do you know Enda Kenny is from the Midlands? Because he looks it.

Why did these TD's who are supposedly "above their parties actions" not vote against the party if they are above critisisim? - Peer pressure is a b*tch, i myself took up smoking at the tender age of 7 to gain the respect of my fellow gang members.

Why are people so selfish as to vote with their parish or family telling them "its always been this way" while giving two fingers to every other person in this country who is suffering as a result of their actions in power? - Dude, you got your cheese vouchers like everyone else, full bellies dont suffer!

Stark

sok2005 wrote: »

Footpaths are important, they are the vehicle of the pedestrian!

I bet you got down on your knees and thanked them for the calcium in the free cheese as well.

sok2005

Stark wrote: »

I bet you got down on your knees and thanked them for the calcium in the free cheese as well.

And while I was down there.....!!

Copper23

Cheers for the answers. Glad to know my countries is safe hands now. :rolleyes:

STILL no reply to some genuine on topic debate though. Not that I'm shocked. Easier to ignore it when wrong I suppose than to back anything up with facts..

Dudess

gbee wrote: »

Not giving Martin his seat back was only way to show our anger. Obviously, in Cork South Central at least, we chickened out.

CrystalLettuce wrote: »

And we voted for him anyway, lol.

Ah yes, more of this "we" sh1t.

gotta love the Irish, stupidest people in western europe easily.

But I presume, despite being Irish, you don't include yourself when you make that mass insult?

And lol at the simpering "I'm ashamed as a Cork person sir" stuff. I didn't vote FF - or indeed FG - but coming from Cork (and not even CSC) means one should be ashamed? Do you not see any silliness in that at all? The need to apportion blame to people who aren't responsible is just pathological...

fedor.2.

Ah if only we were all as rational and reasonable as you dudess:rolleyes: Get over yourself will ya, please

sok2005

sok2005 wrote: »

I answer this question with another question....how do you know Enda Kenny is from the Midlands? Because he looks it.

Midlands, Mayo

Spindle

Copper23 wrote: »

The topic was about voting back in those who DID hold the power on such decisions and voted as such so they are the ones who made it happen.

Although Fine Gael and Labour were not in power over the last few years, it is important in a functioning democracy to have good debate on issues. This did not happen. In the early 2000's they were a non-existent opposition that said the government was not spending enough not doing enough etc. etc.

Although the government made a huge mess of everything I think portion of blame has to be leveled to the people of Ireland who wanted everything and over stretched themselves. Now along with the banks they are looking for bale outs and help with their mortgage repayments. I think everyone who has debt issues is to blame for the mess we are in.

Copper23 wrote: »

If people want to go on supporting their own patch while giving 2 fingers to the rest of the country then good luck to them.
....
....
Its obvious the parish and family politics remain and it's a sad sad state of affairs that people STILL only care about their own patch or what they can get for themselves.

Coveny and Clune, Desmond, are part of family dynasty's something which is rife in Irish politics in all parties, they are only there because of parish and family politics.

So if we are to follow the logic here, then we could only vote for the independents and Sinn Féin and one Labour candidate, so with the choice that was in front of us I think we got a good mix who we got elected.

Judes

Well I'm proud to say I canvassed and voted for Fine Gael, Cork South Central - and gutted that Deirdre didn't retain her seat. But more astounded that the people of Cork could put not 1 but 2 Fianna Fail in. Ah well, to all those who voted for Micheal because "he's from Cork and he's done so much for Cork and he'll look after us" - I beg to differ. Think about the airport and the debt that Fianna Fail left us with. What happened to the Dockside development? The only legacy I see is the flyover at Kinsale Roundabout. Help me recall all the things that FF/PD and FF/Greens did during their reign??? Ah what does it matter - the people of Cork South Central had their chance and blew it. :mad:

Spindle

Judes wrote: »

Help me recall all the things that FF/PD and FF/Greens did during their reign???

Make themselves richer, increase their pay including that of the opposition unopposed. Fine Gael and Labour when the get their foot in will want to take there own slice, although it will be harder for them to do so, they will be corrupt soon enough. Time will tell....

cornbb

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

technically they belong to FG now, although if that is the case why did Enda use that helicopter paid for with tax-payers money to fly to Dublin??? :eek:

The chopper was paid for out of FG coffers, actually. Why did you assume otherwise?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0228/1224291014431.html

cornbb

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

He still is supposed to be setting an example to the electorate, not doing what Harney did, thats what got us here in the first place doing what those before us done,

you do realise i am not condoning or agreeing with what Fianna Fail as a party did? i am simply stating as an example a singular example that mcgrath himself worked hard to at the very least got a brand new entire footpath built all the way up the donnybrook hill making entrances to calderwood and montipellier road...etc safer to drive out of while catering to the saftey of those who before would cut through the estate who can now walk up the road on the new footpath.

yes he shouldn't have to interfere on this issue but the councilors weren't doing it and it needed to be done.

i have had very positive experiences when dealing with both mcgrath and martin along with a few other td's and for those questioning which party i am, yes i would have been Fianna Fail,(i agree the party needs reform) but i did vote labour and fine gael in this election along with the two guys i am defending here.

TDs dealing with issues that councillors are supposed to be dealing with is a problem. Getting TDs to do councillors' jobs is not a solution to the problem, it is simply making it far worse because it tells TDs that they can neglect national issues for the sake of getting a few more votes locally.

The likes of Martin and McGrath must be laughing their asses off when they see that they can get forgiveness for bankrupting the country by picking up the phone and getting a few potholes fixed.

professore

Max001 wrote: »

I'm curious. If I read you right, you're suggesting who we ought not to vote for. Why not go the distance and also suggest who we ought to vote for instead

Why can the OP not express their opinion ? If they want to encourage someone to vote for Itchy and Scratchy where's the problem ?

professore

Judes wrote: »

Well I'm proud to say I canvassed and voted for Fine Gael, Cork South Central - and gutted that Deirdre didn't retain her seat. But more astounded that the people of Cork could put not 1 but 2 Fianna Fail in. Ah well, to all those who voted for Micheal because "he's from Cork and he's done so much for Cork and he'll look after us" - I beg to differ. Think about the airport and the debt that Fianna Fail left us with. What happened to the Dockside development? The only legacy I see is the flyover at Kinsale Roundabout. Help me recall all the things that FF/PD and FF/Greens did during their reign??? Ah what does it matter - the people of Cork South Central had their chance and blew it. :mad:

Not having any particular affiliation to any party myself, I have to agree with you - it does seem that if Hitler came back from the dead and ran for FF in Cork he would be elected (as long as he fixed a few potholes). This time out I voted exclusively for FG candidates - it seems they are the best of a bad lot, but I will wait and see how they get on in March in Europe. All the rest of the discussions over health, public service pay etc is irrelevant if our debts are not sorted in some way.

Kimono-Girl

cornbb wrote: »

TDs dealing with issues that councillors are supposed to be dealing with is a problem. Getting TDs to do councillors' jobs is not a solution to the problem, it is simply making it far worse because it tells TDs that they can neglect national issues for the sake of getting a few more votes locally.

The likes of Martin and McGrath must be laughing their asses off when they see that they can get forgiveness for bankrupting the country by picking up the phone and getting a few potholes fixed.

its not all about them 'fixing potholes' once again that was a minor example i brought up, and to be fair the two of them didn't bankrupt the country and saying so is a slight exaggeration imo, it's alot more complicated then just a politician or two came along and bankrupted us. we could discuss the bankrupting of the country till the cows come home and still get no-where (and be off topic) but honestly you cannot blame two people in a party for how this country ended up and its unfair to do so.

professore

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

its not all about them 'fixing potholes' once again that was a minor example i brought up, and to be fair the two of them didn't bankrupt the country and saying so is a slight exaggeration imo, it's alot more complicated then just a politician or two came along and bankrupted us. we could discuss the bankrupting of the country till the cows come home and still get no-where (and be off topic) but honestly you cannot blame two people in a party for how this country ended up and its unfair to do so.

You are completely wrong. They saw what their party was doing and could have resigned at any time. Therefore they are at the very least guilty by association - especially Michael Martin who was a cabinet member.

Let's get one thing straight. The policies of FF/Greens are directly responsible for the mess our country is in. Property tax reliefs, lax bank regulation and the bank guarantee. Allowing public spending to spiral out of control. Also failing to pursue the bankers. They were asleep at the wheel.

If you still feel you want to endorse FF by voting for their candidates well it's your right but don't expect me to agree with you. You also have to take personal responsibility for rewarding failure.

cornbb

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

its not all about them 'fixing potholes' once again that was a minor example i brought up, and to be fair the two of them didn't bankrupt the country and saying so is a slight exaggeration imo, it's alot more complicated then just a politician or two came along and bankrupted us. we could discuss the bankrupting of the country till the cows come home and still get no-where (and be off topic) but honestly you cannot blame two people in a party for how this country ended up and its unfair to do so.

It is all about them "fixing potholes", along with the other local issues that they concentrate on. I doubt very much that people like McGrath or Michael Lowry or the Healy-Raes get elected due to their prowess at running things at a national level.

There's not a whole lot to discuss about who bankrupted the country tbh. Fianna Fail like to blame the "global economic climate", but they fail to point out that most of the rest of the world weathered that storm pretty well and are already well along the road to recovery.

Micheal Martin was complicit for over a decade, the cabinet that pursued the policies that led us to where we are today. You don't get to elect ministers and the Taoiseach directly, you elect a local politician who elects them. Even during the campaign Micheal Martin was still insisting on championing the same old failed policies. Why on earth should he not get the blame?

Make no mistake: you are not electing the "local man" when you elect someone from any of the big parties, you are electing another seat for that party, another bit of voting power for them. They are bound by the whip system and will vote as the party tells them. When you give a preference to anyone it is vital to not only think about what they will do for you, but what their party intends to do for you.

Kimono-Girl

professore wrote: »

You are completely wrong. They saw what their party was doing and could have resigned at any time. Therefore they are at the very least guilty by association - especially Michael Martin who was a cabinet member.

so are you saying martin should have quit, and leave the party who's core values he believes in rather then do as he is doing and trying to clear and clean the FF party?

professore wrote: »

If you still feel you want to endorse FF by voting for their candidates well it's your right but don't expect me to agree with you. You also have to take personal responsibility for rewarding failure.

i do not expect anyone to agree with me, i do expect people to make up their own mind and to respect the decisions of others, also i don't have to take personal responsibility for rewarding failure i find it insulting you would say that to me personally and worse tell me what i should or shouldn't be doing, the candidates i voted for were in my opinion the ones i felt were best able to do their jobs.

cornbb

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

i do not expect anyone to agree with me, i do expect people to make up their own mind and to respect the decisions of others, also i don't have to take personal responsibility for rewarding failure i find it insulting you would say that to me personally and worse tell me what i should or shouldn't be doing, the candidates i voted for were in my opinion the ones i felt were best able to do their jobs.

People are free to vote as they wish but that doesn't mean that their decisions can't be questioned when they choose to make them known. I'm just confounded that you think a Fianna Fail minister is the best person equipped to do his job, given their abysmal 14-year track record.

Spindle

cornbb wrote: »

People are free to vote as they wish but that doesn't mean that their decisions can't be questioned when they choose to make them known

So the question must be asked who voted them in for the last 14 years then?

sok2005

Spindle wrote: »

So the question must be asked who voted them in for the last 14 years then?

Spot on!

cornbb

Spindle wrote: »

So the question must be asked who voted them in for the last 14 years then?

Yes, the electorate took far too long to kick them out. Thats bad enough but people STILL voting for them and standing up for them after the crash really beggars belief.