The Failed Waterford Bypass and Toll System

fricatus

Joey leBlanc wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying the matter pedantic pete :rolleyes:

"Pedantic Pete" - aren't you the comedian?

I think you're looking for "After Hours" there lad...

Bards

Joey leBlanc wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying the matter pedantic pete :rolleyes:

He is not being pedantic at all. The N25 Waterford City Bypass is tolled. The M9 Waterford to Dublin is not. they are two completely differnet schemes

dayshah

It should be feasible to have a monthly pass that would be attractive for commuters.

wmpdd3

I just thought, if the toll is making less money than thought, will it have to be tolled for longer like the point made above.

sunnysoutheast

Is this one of the tolls that are set "too high" due to changes in the RPI - I think this is an ongoing court case?

I suppose the level of the toll is set based on convenience and time saving at busy times, TBH I always use it unless it's very early/late to avoid the PITA of the "hazard light firework display" quays - the sooner this major asset to the City is made more pedestrian and tourist friendly the better IMHO. I'm not sure the bridge was necessarily intended to save time for local traffic, I think the "bypass" aspect was for passing N25 traffic.

The ring road is 80kmh from the Old Kilmeaden rd out to the N25 bypass.

I'd also agree that the signage is very poor in the Cork direction, and the electronic signs are confusing in that the one at the Kilmeaden roundabout says "toll" going straight on, when you can actually access the ring road without paying a toll.

SSE

Hoffmans

all the pps schemes have a built in compo subsidy once the revenue falls beneath a certain level....

to combat the falling revenues the city council have been given grants to make the quays into a single lane both ways with loads of needless traffic islands and roundabouts.....will be great for pollution having it clogged up when its done....:(

fricatus

Hoffmans wrote: »

to combat the falling revenues the city council have been given grants to make the quays into a single lane both ways with loads of needless traffic islands and roundabouts.....will be great for pollution having it clogged up when its done....:(

Has to happen though, if only for pedestrian safety. It's too much of a racetrack down there at times. They're right to slow things down. A poor woman was killed down there only a month or so ago - I'm sure it was a pure accident, but incidents like this are much less likely if traffic is slowed down.

rayc

fricatus wrote: »

Has to happen though, if only for pedestrian safety. It's too much of a racetrack down there at times. They're right to slow things down. A poor woman was killed down there only a month or so ago - I'm sure it was a pure accident, but incidents like this are much less likely if traffic is slowed down.

Not to mention the quayside might become an attractive place for people to go... like most other waterfronts in major cities.

road_high

Biggest problem for me is the toll, most definitely. I like to head down to Tramore the odd sunday or evening for a drive and have found the couple of times i used the bypass/toll bridge to be totally useless and almost as quick and handy to go through the city; far less roundabouts for one thing and the road in via Sallypark is top class now as well. The outer ring road in Wterford is ridiculous low speed limit; the non dual carriage way Kilkenny ring road is 100 KMH by comparison!! And the layout of the roundabouts is also abysmal with traffic going through them haveing to stay in the left lane...they should be designed in such a way to take through traffic in both lanes like some of the ones in Kilkenny as well.

If it were a euro per trip then it would be better...and 10% off for commuters is simply not enough..i'm sure lots more people would use it if say it was a tenner or less per week; The toll operators have to realise we are in a reccession and people will vote with their wallets..like all other businesses have had to cut prices and do deals/incentives to survive.

Deisekickboxing

There's 4 pedestrian Crossings with lights ,if people can't be arsed to use them they not only endanger themselves. But also the motorists....

Marchandire

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that the old Waterford-Dublin road was anything less than a travesty. The main issue my OP was focusing on was tolling on the bridge, particularly how the tolls stop the bypass from functioning as it was intended.

An interesting article from 2001 here: http://www.waterford-news.ie/news/gbmhqlcw/

Two points stand out: Noel Dempsey was adamant that tolling was necessary if the bypass was to open on time (in 2005), and not six or seven years late. As I understand it, the bypass opened in October 2009 anyway, four years after the original deadline. Given that the opening was late, was this threat merely a means for the FF/PD coalition to forge ahead with the PPP scheme unhindered?

Labour councillors tabled a motion opposing tolling in 2001. Their sentiments were fairly close to those I've heard from Waterford people lately:

'Cllr. O’Ceilleachair argued that other parts of the country such as Galway, Cork, Athlone and Limerick had got new bridge crossings or major infrastructural projects without having toll charges imposed. Waterford shouldn’t be any different... The people of this area including those going through the crossing for industrial or commercial reasons shouldn’t be charged every time they go over this bridge.'

The motion was supported by Paudie Coffey, who suggested an alternate method of 'shadow tolling' paid by the government. John Deasy refused to support the Labour motion, on the grounds that the council had no power in relation to tolling (the NRA has statutory powers in this regard). David Cullinane has taken a similar position in his Blog. John Halligan, in his role as Mayor, was effusive in this support for the new bypass, including a piece in the brochure: http://www.waterfordcity.ie/n25bypass/files/N25-PromoBrouchure.pdf

Unsurprisingly, ten Fianna Fail Councillors voted the motion down, with the quote from Ollie Wilkinson particularly memorable: 'He said the Council would be “stone mad” to do anything to hinder the provision of the bridge.'


My position is that Waterford people paid the same taxes as anyone else and deserved the same infrastructure as other parts of the country, without a punitive tax on what is basically taxpayer funded infrastructure. Very few local politicians foresaw a problem with tolling the bridge, preferring to take political credit for the visible improvement to our roads, or to sit on the fence and leave the issue in the hands of the NRA. These politicians failed local people in this regard.

wmpdd3

I can see there being a bridge between The tower and Ballgunner in the next 15 years that will finally take from Rice bridge.

Joey leBlanc

fricatus wrote: »

"Pedantic Pete" - aren't you the comedian?

I think you're looking for "After Hours" there lad...

If you find it hard to laugh at yourself, I would be happy to do it for you!

Must be a humour free zone discussing such weighty topics in the leafy
suburbs that is the Dunmore Road.

Psychedelic

Deisekickboxing wrote: »

There's 4 pedestrian Crossings with lights ,if people can't be arsed to use them they not only endanger themselves. But also the motorists....

True, but a lot of motorists break the traffic lights:
http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/traffic-offence-every-90-seconds-on-quay/

Cabaal

savic04 wrote: »

I know people who travel to work in the IDA from the new ross, Co Kilkenny area and they use it but not every day due to the cost

I travel everyday down the M9 but its so early and traffic is so light I go via the city as apposed to the toll bridge, in the evenings I also go through the city even though traffic is heavier.

The only time I use the toll bridge is if its a Friday and I want to get home earlier or I'm in a hurry, but 1.90 a pop is too expensive to use it twice a day.

Deisekickboxing

Psychedelic wrote: »

True, but a lot of motorists break the traffic lights:
http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/traffic-offence-every-90-seconds-on-quay/

That article was pure tripe, council spin not doubt from the amount of objections there is against their plans for
bottlenecking the quays

Cabaal

Deisekickboxing wrote: »

That article was pure tripe, council spin not doubt from the amount of objections there is against their plans for
bottlenecking the quays

Problem is anyone who drives the quays and actually pays attention to the lights etc will know there's actually alot of truth in the story.

There are 4 sets of lights between the bridge and the tower (not counting the lights after the tower), even when its 7am you still see idiots running the red and amber lights.

Before I moved and started driving to work I used to do an awful lot of cycling and walking on the quays and 9 times out of 10 if the light just turned green and you stepped out you'd be hit....the lights just passed Centra are awful for it.

Infact one night I was nearly killed by a motorist just passed Centra who drove through the light yet it had been red for a good 3-4 seconds.

Alot of idiots use the quays as a racetrack of sorts
:mad:

Hoffmans

wouldnt trust them lights at the best a times only the ones at the clock tower are safe to cross ,
tho in reading that article i wonder what is the motiavation behind it ,does seem like the old 'heres a problem and theres the solution' type of spin journalism....

merlante

At the end of the day, the Quay has been downgraded to a regional road, the council are going to bring it down to 1 lane and bring in traffic calming. In the near future the south quays will be redeveloped and will one of the biggest amenities and tourist draws in the city.

The bypass is there to absorb much of the traffic and it will be used a lot more when the quay is returned to the city. At the moment it's just a dual carriageway, which we don't need in our city centre. The south quay has huge potential, more than any other Irish cities. Iirc the Frank Cassin warf is going to facilitate cruise ships, and the city will hopefully be postcard perfect in a few years. A few restaurants/cafes on the quay overlooking the water and you're laughing.

Bards

Bump:

NRA now has stats for 2010 on their site

http://nraextra.nra.ie/CurrentTrafficCounterData/html/N25-1a.htm (East)
http://nraextra.nra.ie/CurrentTrafficCounterData/html/N25-2a.htm (West)

mike65

Thats a hell of a fall off from August to Dec.

bkehoe

The toll charge was decreased yesterday! Presumably after the NRA winning the court action for the M1.

Tolls for passenger cars are now 1.80 (instead of 1.90).

STIG83

bkehoe wrote: »

The toll charge was decreased yesterday! Presumably after the NRA winning the court action for the M1.

Tolls for passenger cars are now 1.80 (instead of 1.90).

Nice one!! that saving of 10 cent makes a big difference.

hinault

I've been caught badly twice in recent months.

Driving from Carrick on Suir in to Waterford city, I have twice taken the wrong exit off the roundabout and ended up on a tolled road heading to Cork.
(the toll booth is set about 500 metres from the roundabout exit).
In other words if someone takes a wrong exit on a roundabout they must pay the toll:mad::mad::mad:

The signage on the roundabouts in question are poor and have been set deliberately so that mugs like me end up paying €1.90 to drive what is a 500m stretch which has an exit for Waterford City (leaving the correct roundabout exit, you have a 2-3 mile drive in to Waterford City).

Bards

When Driving from Carrick-on-suir. all you have to do is stay ini the middle lane at Grannagh Junction r/a and stay between the lines and it will guide you to the correct exit.

I can't believe you missed the exit for Waterford City and took the 3rd exit instead of the 2nd exit!!

tonc76

hinault wrote: »

I've been caught badly twice in recent months.

Driving from Carrick on Suir in to Waterford city, I have twice taken the wrong exit off the roundabout and ended up on a tolled road heading to Cork.
(the toll booth is set about 500 metres from the roundabout exit).
In other words if someone takes a wrong exit on a roundabout they must pay the toll:mad::mad::mad:

The signage on the roundabouts in question are poor and have been set deliberately so that mugs like me end up paying €1.90 to drive what is a 500m stretch which has an exit for Waterford City (leaving the correct roundabout exit, you have a 2-3 mile drive in to Waterford City).

If you can't read signs you deserve to pay the toll. The fact that you allowed this to happen to you twice opens up a whole other can of worms :rolleyes:

STIG83

tonc76 wrote: »

If you can't read signs you deserve to pay the toll. The fact that you allowed this to happen to you twice opens up a whole other can of worms :rolleyes:

Sorry but i agree with the poster who said the signs are confusing, if you are new to the area you would get lost on it.

tonc76

STIG83 wrote: »

Sorry but i agree with the poster who said the signs are confusing, if you are new to the area you would get lost on it.

I'm doing this from memory but if you are approaching the N24/N25 roundabout from the M9/N24 roundabout Rosslare is given left, Waterford straight ahead and Cork to the right.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Waterford,+Ireland&aq=0&sll=53.41291,-8.24389&sspn=3.589249,14.260254&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Waterford,+County+Waterford,+Ireland&ll=52.283571,-7.162614&spn=0,0.027852&z=15&layer=c&cbll=52.28348,-7.148308&panoid=cWWBKJXTKgQH2BLkxXNoDg&cbp=12,72.36,,0,7.99

How is that sign confusing???

The issue is probably more to do with the road markings on the spiral roundabout but if you are in the correct lane on approach to the roundabout the road markings guide you to your chosen exit from the roundabout.

I can't remember whether there is a lane destination sign on approach to the N24/N25 roundabout though?

I still stand by my original statement though regarding making the same mistake twice!

Joe Gt

these are the problem for some people coming to the city from cork direction and end up the the train station http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Waterford,+Ireland&aq=0&sll=53.41291,-8.24389&sspn=3.589249,14.260254&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Waterford,+County+Waterford,+Ireland&layer=c&cbll=52.25182,-7.190809&panoid=Fxa-aT-Sd97L0IXA3-R9jg&cbp=12,345.02,,0,-17.83&ll=52.251399,-7.190809&spn=0.051389,0.076818&z=14

jayboi

Joe Gt wrote: »

these are the problem for some people coming to the city from cork direction and end up the the train station http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Waterford,+Ireland&aq=0&sll=53.41291,-8.24389&sspn=3.589249,14.260254&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Waterford,+County+Waterford,+Ireland&layer=c&cbll=52.25182,-7.190809&panoid=Fxa-aT-Sd97L0IXA3-R9jg&cbp=12,345.02,,0,-17.83&ll=52.251399,-7.190809&spn=0.051389,0.076818&z=14

Id find that Waterford south/Waterford confusing especially when your already in Waterford and the sign post that says Waterford leads you to Kilkenny first neither says where Waterford city is, the Waterford south direction should have Waterford city as well as Tramore with it.