Leinster vs Treviso friday 7.10pm RTE2

ShamoBuc

I reckon that's 3 games in a row where Leinster should really have done better. A bonus point should have been gathered tonight. A tough game next week, a loss there will make a difference in the top 4 table.
Some of the younger fellas did ok tonight but as a team I think it still looked a bit disjointed. Maybe a few older heads will be added for next weeks game to get a positive result.

Chilli Con Kearney

Delighted to see Stan Wright back in the team. Pity Boss hesitated after that break in the first half, it could have been a try if he had made a looping pass to his right.

I really don't know what Clint Newland has to offer. His scrummaging is not great, nor is his rucking or carrying.

Toner needs to learn how to utilise his body. I have no doubt in his lineout potential but he needs to bring other elements to his game. He does look slightly awkward carrying the ball but in fairness to him he never shirked from trying.

tolosenc

Toner weighs what? 21 stone? He could probably pop on another 4 at least. Just the extra bulk would help him in his carrying. If he works on positioning, he could be a fantastic player.

Entertaining, but disappointing. Easily could have had 6 tries. Isa was MOTM for me, I have to say.

CouchSmart

tolosenc wrote: »

Toner weighs what? 21 stone? He could probably pop on another 4 at least. Just the extra bulk would help him in his carrying. If he works on positioning, he could be a fantastic player.

He's 120kg so 18.9 stone. Also, popping on 4 stone is huge. At the moment he's Leinster heaviest player. Plenty of bulk, just needs to build up speed before taking contact, pace x bulk = awesome momentum.

durkadurka

Locky just tweeted that McKinley should have been motm over o malley.

I'm inclined to agree although Ryan was great and o malley had a touch of class, lovely step.

Re toner, yes his weight is huge but not in relation to his size. He needs to find a way to get Over his height 'handicap' in the loose

CouchSmart

durkadurka wrote: »

Locky just tweeted that McKinley should have been motm over o malley.

I fully expected McKinley to get it myself. Sheehan doesn't have the best record of picking MOTM, I suppose:p.

durkadurka

CouchSmart wrote: »

I fully expected McKinley to get it myself. Sheehan doesn't have the best record of picking MOTM, I suppose:p.

Depends on your point of view. If making someone motm helps to get them a better contract and you benefit personally from that, then his choices are excellent, inspired even!

David900

I was at the match so I couldn't hear the refs calls in the first half on the scrum? What was going on, it all seemed against Leinster. The atmosphere wasn't the best in the second half but these kind of matches are never going to be.

Some of the criticism on here is way too harsh - although it is in the minority. I know it is kind of frustrating leaving the bonus behind we are really building a team of which other teams will aspire to. I just guess some people are never happy. I'd just take the win with the amount of youth on the field - I think most fans would feel the same.

Podge_irl

I realise we need to take the opposition into account, but Boss looks everything like the SH that TOL is trying to be. He attacks the gainline, he has physicality. But more importantly, he takes the right options and quite frankly seems to have a better pass. I've always been a fan of Boss though could understand Reddan or Stringer being ahead of him based on what they bring to the game. But if the Irish management want an abrasive, defending, big scrumhalf then Boss is simply a league ahead of TOL at the moment.

GerM

tolosenc wrote: »

Toner weighs what? 21 stone? He could probably pop on another 4 at least. Just the extra bulk would help him in his carrying. If he works on positioning, he could be a fantastic player.

Entertaining, but disappointing. Easily could have had 6 tries. Isa was MOTM for me, I have to say.

4 stone? As it stands, Toner is almost 19 stone. If he put on even another 2 stone, he'd be hard to lift. 4 stone would make it near impossible to get him in the air to a reasonable degree. Height is only half the battle in the line out. There's a lot to be said for being able to launch a lighter, more agile jumper into the air quickly, especially on opposition ball. This is why Croft, Harinordoquy and Bonnaire are such excellent line out operators.

Toner's issues don't lie with his size, they lie with his body positioning which actually has improved since he first came on the scene but is still very poor. He was turned over in contact and had a scrum given against him also after going to ground and not being able to get the ball back. If his body positioning isn't improving he really, really needs to start using those long arms to hand off or even hold off the tackler as he goes to ground or offloads. Hines is the perfect example of how to do it.

wixfjord

Getting slated here for my opinions and I don't agree at all.
We were awful last night in the most part, at least 5 of our own lineouts lost, some awful knock ons, and poor scrum, if that doesn't deserve criticism then what does? Also, how is it "way too harsh", it the senior team did the same they too would be getting criticised!

People are going to come back with "building a team" etc etc, but looking at it, we really only had Sheridan and Mckinley in there who you would be surprised if they were picked in a HEC team!

We should have had at least 6 tries, and anyone who says that was a good performance is kidding themselves, Treviso were abysmal.

Another note of Dave Kearney, really think this guy could be very good.
As for Toner, any chance we can either cut a bit off him, or at least get someone to madden him up and teach him how to get lower, or offload.

TheHighRoad

Harris-Wright can't scrummage at all. The difference in the scrums when he came on was unbelievable. We were pushing back the opposition scrum with McGrath-Strauss-Newland then when Harris-Wright came on suddenly the scrum was a shambles. The contrast is pretty damning. I am just wondering if his height means he cant competently scrummage? He looks like hes 5'6 or something

TheHighRoad

tolosenc wrote: »

Toner weighs what? 21 stone? He could probably pop on another 4 at least. Just the extra bulk would help him in his carrying. If he works on positioning, he could be a fantastic player.

What? He could just pop on another 4 stone! Do you know how utterly impossible that is? Even with large doses of steroids that would be a superlative achievement. That would make him 150kg, 5kg heavier than the heaviest player in world rugby right now and 10 kilos off the heaviest player to ever play world rugby. How do you expect anyone to lift him? He would be 4 stone heavier than Stan Wright!

wixfjord

TheHighRoad wrote: »

What? He could just pop on another 4 stone! Do you know how utterly impossible that is? Even with large doses of steroids that would be a superlative achievement. That would make him 150kg, 5kg heavier than the heaviest player in world rugby right now and 10 kilos off the heaviest player to ever play world rugby. How do you expect anyone to lift him? He would be 4 stone heavier than Stan Wright!

Haha! When you put it like that!

TheRevolution

TheHighRoad wrote: »

Harris-Wright can't scrummage at all. The difference in the scrums when he came on was unbelievable. We were pushing back the opposition scrum with McGrath-Strauss-Newland then when Harris-Wright came on suddenly the scrum was a shambles. The contrast is pretty damning. I am just wondering if his height means he cant competently scrummage? He looks like hes 5'6 or something

On the plus side at least we have a 21 year old prop who can already hold his own on both sides of the scrum! I think it was the second scrum after he came on that he shoved the tighthead up and out of the scrum it was really impressive. I know McGrath is renowned for being excellent in the scrum but whats he like in the loose? He hasn't really played that often or for that long to notice really. As for Harris-Wright ye it was pretty bad but theres so many factors that you don't know if it was his fault. Anyway hes 21 so he has time on his side to mature.

Two of the players who I wrote off last season Morris and D.Kearney have probably been Leinster's most impressive young performers this season. D.Kearney in particular is looking excellent. O'Malley was brilliant once again and I was very impressed by McKinley. I saw at one point in the game some stats coming up that Dominc Ryan has had something like 27 appearances this year! Not bad for a 20 year old! Himself and Rhys Ruddock are just unnaturally good for their age. Its scary tbh.

D.Ryan ~ 27 appearances as an academy player? Unreal tbh. Need to get him locked into a full contract asap! Ruddock too, the guy's a monster.

Thought Morris has done really really very well in last few appearances. Different player from this time last season.

Still think D.Kearney is too lightweight in defence, but he can work on that.

McKinley looked really assured, still has plenty to learn, and gametime has been limited due to his eye injury, fantastic to see him back though. Plenty of people said he was insanely talented and I never got a chance to see him play. You really have to be good to make a Leinster team out of a school not renowned for rugby in Dublin tbh.

wixfjord

Where did Mckinley go to school?

Oh and tell that to Tullow Community School!

RuggieBear

wixfjord wrote: »

Where did Mckinley go to school?

Oh and tell that to Tullow Community School!

st columba's college

wixfjord

RuggieBear wrote: »

st columba's college

Thats the Protestant school up near Stepaside is it?

RuggieBear

wixfjord wrote: »

Thats the Protestant school up near Stepaside is it?

yep.
http://stcolumbas.ie/

TheRevolution

wixfjord wrote: »

Thats the Protestant school up near Stepaside is it?

Thats the one. I've played against McKinley, hes a real gentleman. He was unbelievably good in a very poor team.

wixfjord

wixfjord wrote: »

Where did Mckinley go to school?

Oh and tell that to Tullow Community School!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that a Dublin school?

Perhaps the rhythm of my sentence could have been misconstrued.

I meant to highlight that being a stand out rugby player in Dublin is tough if you're not in one of the schools.

The schools game carries far more weight than the club games.

GerM

Yup, most expensive school in the country too I believe! Know a bloke who went there. Funny place. Wear their whites for games as opposed to gear for PE. Very stuffy old style.

McKinley is someone that was going to make it regardless once he was in any school with a rugby team. He was marked from a young age and I recall when he was in 5th year reports saying he was guaranteed to play for Ireland. I'd really love to have seen how far along he'd be if he hadn't lost a full 12 months to a career threatening injury.

It's all the more remarkable that his defence is so good given his injury is a freak one that would really shake someone up. Nearly losing an eye is horrific but he shows no fear whatsoever on the pitch.

TheRevolution

Deleted User wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that a Dublin school?

Perhaps the rhythm of my sentence could have been misconstrued.

I meant to highlight that being a stand out rugby player in Dublin is tough if you're not in one of the schools.

The schools game carries far more weight than the club games.

To be honest thats more down to how difficult it is to perform in a poor schools team than any selection criteria. McKinley, Dominic Ryan, Kevin McLoughlin and Felix Jones all went to schools outside the big 6 and had no problems getting noticed.

thebaz

TheRevolution wrote: »

To be honest thats more down to how difficult it is to perform in a poor schools team than any selection criteria. McKinley, Dominic Ryan, Kevin McLoughlin and Felix Jones all went to schools outside the big 6 and had no problems getting noticed.

the leap from schools to senior is massive, thats why the academy is doing such a great job - i know ryan and mcloughlin were outstanding schoolboys , but the next leap is huge and so many good school players fail - glad mckinley did well, certainly seams gutsy and with a bit of luck will keep mr sexton on his toes - we so need two reliable out halves ,

CouchSmart

wixfjord wrote: »

People are going to come back with "building a team" etc etc, but looking at it, we really only had Sheridan and Mckinley in there who you would be surprised if they were picked in a HEC team!

I would be very surprised to see Kearney, Conway or EOD starting in a HEC game.

Also, it's not about who's playing, it's who's missing. Yes Ruddock or Ryan or whoever could and has started HEC games (and they've done well) but it's usually only one or two of them starting, not most of them.

wixfjord

CouchSmart wrote: »

I would be very surprised to see Kearney, Conway or EOD starting in a HEC game.

Also, it's not about who's playing, it's who's missing. Yes Ruddock or Ryan or whoever could and has started HEC games (and they've done well) but it's usually only one or two of them starting, not most of them.

EOD I'll agree, but you're missing my point. I'm not saying that this 15 is top clas HEC standard, but they all could slot in seamlessly into a Leinster team, without anyone thinking twice about it, and it's not, as some are saying, a whole underage team, there are a lot of experienced guys in there.
The performance last night didn't reflect this in any way.

danthefan

Was very impressed by McKinley, hope he gets more games now. Should definitely be our ML out half now while Sexton isn't around.

Disappointed we didn't get a BP, real lack of accuracy at times.

Just realised Sexton should be available for the game next weekend.

CouchSmart

wixfjord wrote: »

EOD I'll agree, but you're missing my point. I'm not saying that this 15 is top clas HEC standard, but they all could slot in seamlessly into a Leinster team, without anyone thinking twice about it,

I think you missed my point. I agree that most of the players could slot into our 'first' team but when there's more 'second' team players than 'firsts', it doesn't remain the 'first' team.

RE: the quotation marks: I'm not a fan of the whole 'firsts' and 'seconds' thing, they're all in the full squad but I don't know how else to write my point.

danthefan

I for one don't think EOD is a HEC standard player and Toner hasn't impressed recently either imo. It's vital Cullen and Hines stay fit.

TheRevolution

I think were definitely going to see a huge name signing in the second row for next season. Victor Matfield is retiring, Botha is going to Toulon, Ali Williams has admitted that hes close to signing a deal with NZ, both French locks are tied down to 2012. The only world class lock available is Brad Thorn who has said that hes looking at a number of options from European clubs. There isnt much options.

GerM

TheRevolution wrote: »

I think were definitely going to see a huge name signing in the second row for next season. Victor Matfield is retiring, Botha is going to Toulon, Ali Williams has admitted that hes close to signing a deal with NZ, both French locks are tied down to 2012. The only world class lock available is Brad Thorn who has said that hes looking at a number of options from European clubs. There isnt much options.

There is very little in terms of options for a top class lock post WC. Matfield is retiring and Botha is going to Toulon so any Bok lock worth their salt is going to be hanging around to try and take one of the two available jerseys. For NZ, Boric, Donnelly and Whitelock all signed new contracts last summer so are unavailable. Ali Williams is a discipline nightmare and has a very poor injury record. I don't think he'll ever be the player he was. Thorn is going on 37 and I don't think should be looked at.

The likely ones are the Oz locks. I know Nathan Sharpe is out of contract following the world cup. He's a class act but getting on. I'd be happy if we looked at Mark Chisholm. Powerful and decent player. I'm not sure what his contract situation is but if we're looking at locks we could certainly do worse. I wouldn't be surprised if we looked at one of those two.

Kellock and Gray are both under contract in Scotland so they're unavailable. Bradley Davies is currently signing a new contract with the Welsh union so he's not in the equation either. Alun Wyn Jones is out of contract with the Ospreys but I believe there's big money on the table from France for him so I don't think Leinster have much chance of getting him.

Will be an interesting one.

TheHighRoad

GerM wrote: »

There is very little in terms of options for a top class lock post WC. Matfield is retiring and Botha is going to Toulon so any Bok lock worth their salt is going to be hanging around to try and take one of the two available jerseys. For NZ, Boric, Donnelly and Whitelock all signed new contracts last summer so are unavailable. Ali Williams is a discipline nightmare and has a very poor injury record. I don't think he'll ever be the player he was. Thorn is going on 37 and I don't think should be looked at.

The likely ones are the Oz locks. I know Nathan Sharpe is out of contract following the world cup. He's a class act but getting on. I'd be happy if we looked at Mark Chisholm. Powerful and decent player. I'm not sure what his contract situation is but if we're looking at locks we could certainly do worse. I wouldn't be surprised if we looked at one of those two.

Kellock and Gray are both under contract in Scotland so they're unavailable. Bradley Davies is currently signing a new contract with the Welsh union so he's not in the equation either. Alun Wyn Jones is out of contract with the Ospreys but I believe there's big money on the table from France for him so I don't think Leinster have much chance of getting him.

Will be an interesting one.

Anyone know why we never see Galarza? Hes a starting Argentinian lock and 24, surely hes better than the likes of Toner and EOD? Also Kevin McLaughlin should b converted to second row.

danthefan

TheHighRoad wrote: »

Anyone know why we never see Galarza? Hes a starting Argentinian lock and 24, surely hes better than the likes of Toner and EOD?

Because he's been gone from Leinster for a while now.

David900

danthefan wrote: »

Because he's been gone from Leinster for a while now.

They let him go? I'd imagine if they are going to promote from within Schmidt would be giving more game time to the likes of Sheriff. I'd say if he plays Locky in some of the Magners games next month he could be looking at him as full time replacement.

I don't like Galarza, mostly because in the warm up for his first game against Wasps pre season, he managed to injure the fitness coach by overdoing his warm up when the coach was holding a tackle pad.

Pretty sure he did his cruciate!

CIARAN_BOYLE

TheHighRoad wrote: »

Anyone know why we never see Galarza? Hes a starting Argentinian lock and 24, surely hes better than the likes of Toner and EOD? Also Kevin McLaughlin should b converted to second row.

He has had 5 caps since 2008, his few months in Leinster was his first professional contract. He was on a short term contract. He left about a month ago when his contract expired to play in an amateur competition back home.

Conas

I think people need to go easy on Toner just for the moment. There are a lot of aspects to his game that he really needs to work on which is obvious, but I still think there are good things to him to too. Kevin McLaughlin played very well in the second row the week before, and I was very impressed with him. But Locky is an out and out 6 in my opinion. I'd have to question his pace though. He wouldn't have the same spring as the likes Ferris, O'Brien and even Ruddock have.