Why can't Suarez play for Liverpool in the Europa league but...

Blatter

Torres can play for Chelsea in the Champions league?

Is it because Ajax dropped into the Europa league after finishing 3rd in their CL group or would he have been ineligible anyway? It's the only sort of explanation I can think of, and if true, it's a pretty poor one.

Probably not thread worthy but another pathetic rule from UEFA.

Ebbs

Different competitions. Torres never played/registered in CL, Suarez was registered for Europa.

NukaCola

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

Is it because Ajax dropped into the Europa league after finishing 3rd in their CL group

Spot on.....Had they finished 4th i think he would be able to play..

Eirebear

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

Spot on.....Had they finished 4th i think he would be able to play..

Seems a strange one though considering he never actually played in the Europa.

I hate the "cup tied" rule, i dont get the point of it, especially in this age of transfer windows.

Blatter

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

Spot on.....Had they finished 4th i think he would be able to play..

Persuming that is the reason, It still dosen't make any sense.
Suarez never played in the Europa league this season and should be allowed do so for Liverpool.

How is it relevant that Ajax dropped into it?

monkey9

I think it's something along the lines of Torres playing in the Europa League can't affect what happens in the Champions League, but Suarez playing in the Champions League can affect the Europa League.

Theoretically, if Suarez knew he was signing for Liverpool in January, then he mightn't try as hard in a Champions League match against say, Barcelona who needed to beat Ajax to qualify for the next round. He might think Liverpool would stand a better chance of winning the Europa League if Barca aren't in it.

Or he mightn't try as hard to stop Ajax from getting into the Europa League

NukaCola

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

Persuming that is the reason, It still dosen't make any sense.
Suarez never played in the Europa league this season and should be allowed do so for Liverpool.

How is it relevant that Ajax dropped into it?

I didnt make the rule!
I dont agree with it either....

eagle eye

Stupid rule. If you haven't played in it for another team you should be allowed to play for your new club.

dreamers75

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

Probably not thread worthy but another pathetic rule from UEFA.

yeah stupid rules that the clubs know about at the start of the season.

NukaCola

dreamers75 wrote: »

yeah stupid rules that the clubs know about at the start of the season.

Wheter they know about it or not its still a stupid rule IMO

dreamers75

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

Wheter they know about it or not its still a stupid rule IMO

how so?

Liverpool vs Ajax and Suarez scores for Ajax in the groups, 2 months later and in the knockouts Ajax vs Liverpool Suarez scores for liverpool.

Thats one reason.

NukaCola

dreamers75 wrote: »

how so?

Liverpool vs Ajax and Suarez scores for Ajax in the groups, 2 months later and in the knockouts Ajax vs Liverpool Suarez scores for liverpool.

Thats one reason.

That doesnt make any sense.....i'm not trying to be rude but i just dont understand your point..

If Ajax and Liverpool were in the same CL Group they would never face each other in the knockout stages of the Europa League.

Blatter

dreamers75 wrote: »

how so?

Liverpool vs Ajax and Suarez scores for Ajax in the groups, 2 months later and in the knockouts Ajax vs Liverpool Suarez scores for liverpool.

Thats one reason.

Ajax were in the Champions league.
Liverpool were in the Europa league.

Your reason makes no sense.

so what else do ya have for us?;)

citytillidie

If Ajax had of made the last 16 of the Champions League then Suarez could have played for Liverpool. I think its a rule that you cant play for 2 clubs in the same comp in the same year

NukaCola

citytillidie wrote: »

If Ajax had of made the last 16 of the Champions League then Suarez could have played for Liverpool. I think its a rule that you cant play for 2 clubs in the same comp in the same year

He didnt play in the Europa League with Ajax though...

dreamers75

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

That doesnt make any sense.....i'm not trying to be rude but i just dont understand your point..

If Ajax and Liverpool were in the same CL Group they would never face each other in the knockout stages of the Europa League.

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

Ajax were in the Champions league.
Liverpool were in the Europa league.

Your reason makes no sense.

so what else do ya have for us?;)

Rule is 18:18 from the UEFA European Rulebook , cba looking for it.

Point is everyone knows this at the start of the season, so dont sign players you cant play! And your fans really shouldnt whinge about it midseason.

NukaCola

dreamers75 wrote: »

Rule is 18:18 from the UEFA European Rulebook , cba looking for it.

Point is everyone knows this at the start of the season, so dont sign players you cant play! And your fans really shouldnt whinge about it midseason.

Still a stupid rule....sure you didnt even know what you were talking about earlier trying to explain it. No-one is whinging, can we not debate on a rule now?

dreamers75

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

Still a stupid rule....sure you didnt even know what you were talking about earlier trying to explain it. No-one is whinging, can we not debate on a rule now?

jebus how can the cup tied rule not be a stupid rule

If your registered with one club you cant play for another in the same season in the same cup there are exclusions 1 i believe per team but it must be done before a certain date which liverpool missed by about 2 weeks.

In fairness the pool fans on here are whinging about why he cant play yet the rule existed before the season started so the club knew it.

Blatter

dreamers75 wrote: »

Rule is 18:18 from the UEFA European Rulebook , cba looking for it.

Point is everyone knows this at the start of the season, so dont sign players you cant play! And your fans really shouldnt whinge about it midseason.

1. Nobody is disputing the fact that clubs are aware of the rule.
2. Your point is irelevant regardless.
3. I don't care that Suarez can't play for Liverpool in the EL. However, I do care that UEFA are implementing ridiculous rules that nobody is in favour of.
4. I'm a Manchester Utd fan.

dreamers75

Sorry misread your points, you actually think it should be ok for a player to switch to another club after the registration date and play in the same or other Euro competitions.


Have to ask why do you think this is a good thing?

dreamers75

dreamers75 wrote: »

If your registered with one club you cant play for another in the same season in the same cup .

But he didn't play in the EL!!!

The rule is nonsensical in this instance and in most others imo, the cup tied thing should be done away with in all comps.

dreamers75

Evan Unkempt Noose wrote: »

But he didn't play in the EL!!!

The rule is nonsensical in this instance and in most others imo, the cup tied thing should be done away with in all comps.

I disagree if you sign for a team you play for them for the season (i want the transfer window scrapped btw). The uefa rule has 3 points they make sense to me and clubs do have the option to sign a player before a certain date to allow them to switch. In this case Liverpool chose to wait until 2 days before the window closed so missing the exception date.

Its noones fault but theirs in this case. Strange agreeing with UEFA on something

K-9

I thought it was stupid but if Liverpool play Ajax it would be strange for him to play.

Still, he hasn't actually played in it, just registered.

5starpool

Cup tied rule is silly anyways. I don't see why different eligibility criteria exist for cups and leagues. I've no complaint about him being cup tied in this instance as I knew that anyways, but my point is a general one.

ShamoBuc

dreamers75 wrote: »

Sorry misread your points, you actually think it should be ok for a player to switch to another club after the registration date and play in the same or other Euro competitions.


Have to ask why do you think this is a good thing?

Torres played in EL ---> transferred ----> played in CL. It's a good thing.


Have to ask you why do you think this is a bad thing?

~Rebel~

tbh, imo, it makes sense.

CL group stages are effectively qualifiers for 2 things; Champions league knockouts, and europa league knockouts.

If a guy has played a part in a team qualifying for the competition, and then joins another team in the same competition, he should be cup tied (that is, if one is to agree with the idea of being cup-tied in any circumstances, personally i wouldn't be too annoyed if they removed that from all competitions).

Just because we perceive it as being a "drop down" from CL to EL, doesn't change the reality that its a qualification process, top 2 go into CL knockouts, 3rd goes onto EL knockouts, and 4th is out.

murpho999

I think it's a rule that should be amended.

Think you can play for new club once it doesn't impact old club so Suarez wouldn't be allowed play against Ajax or if still in group stage then couldn't play in group if it involved Ajax., simple!

If Suarez was in EL now it would have no impact on Ajax.

If you were to follow the same logic then players transferring from same league should be 'league tied' for rest of season.

~Rebel~

murpho999 wrote: »

I think it's a rule that should be amended.

Think you can play for new club once it doesn't impact old club so Suarez wouldn't be allowed play against Ajax or if still in group stage then couldn't play in group if it involved Ajax., simple!

How does one determine that something doesn't influence the selling team though?

We always have to assume Ajax will progress to the final, as thats a possibility. Just because the affect of the player transferring is not direct does not mean it doesn't exist. The course of events of the cup changes due to the player playing. Both for the goals and assists and general play he contributes, as well as the contributions his replacement would have made if he did not play.

The rule is there to stop 1 player influencing the competition for 2 teams. As such, it makes sense. I dont think we can really have a compromise on it, as if we say he can play against other teams, it still has every chance of impacting later on, for instance Suarez misses a penalty against a team who go on to beat pool and subsequently beat Ajax. Had Suarez not played, pool might have beaten that team and ajax might have beaten pool.

I wouldn't have too much issue with them deciding to do away with the cup tying thing, but I dont think there can be degrees of having it. its an "all or nothing" thing imo.

And to be fair, it is in every other cup competition, so why would this be any different?

If they were being totally regimented, they would put this in for the league too, but obviously thats just unfeasible, as it removes the january transfer window. Somebody made a decision that for knockouts, this is the way it is, while for leagues, transfers are fine.

murpho999

~Rebel~ wrote: »

How does one determine that something doesn't influence the selling team though?

We always have to assume Ajax will progress to the final, as thats a possibility. Just because the affect of the player transferring is not direct does not mean it doesn't exist. The course of events of the cup changes due to the player playing. Both for the goals and assists and general play he contributes, as well as the contributions his replacement would have made if he did not play.

The rule is there to stop 1 player influencing the competition for 2 teams. As such, it makes sense. I dont think we can really have a compromise on it, as if we say he can play against other teams, it still has every chance of impacting later on, for instance Suarez misses a penalty against a team who go on to beat pool and subsequently beat Ajax. Had Suarez not played, pool might have beaten that team and ajax might have beaten pool.

I wouldn't have too much issue with them deciding to do away with the cup tying thing, but I dont think there can be degrees of having it. its an "all or nothing" thing imo.

And to be fair, it is in every other cup competition, so why would this be any different?

If they were being totally regimented, they would put this in for the league too, but obviously thats just unfeasible, as it removes the january transfer window. Somebody made a decision that for knockouts, this is the way it is, while for leagues, transfers are fine.

I hear what you're saying but all the permutations make it a rule that is hard to defend.

Sure you could go further with the influence on a player. Take this example, it's an extreme but can happen.

At the moment Chelsea and Spurs playing for 4th. Let's say Spurs Keeper knows that Chelsea will buy him in summer? Sure he can start letting in goals whilst playing for Spurs so that Chelsea get 4th and guarantees himself Champions League the next season.

I know it's a ridiculous example but it is possible so I think this cup-tied rule thing should be scrapped and transfers should be just accepted as part and parcel of the game and players play in comps for new clubs!

~Rebel~

murpho999 wrote: »

I hear what you're saying but all the permutations make it a rule that is hard to defend.

Well, its the permutations that make the rule have to be all encompassing, with no exceptions or amendments (short of removing it entirely).

Sure you could go further with the influence on a player. Take this example, it's an extreme but can happen.

At the moment Chelsea and Spurs playing for 4th. Let's say Spurs Keeper knows that Chelsea will buy him in summer? Sure he can start letting in goals whilst playing for Spurs so that Chelsea get 4th and guarantees himself Champions League the next season.

The league example doesn't really come into it as only the cup is in question here, and the reason its in place in the cup is that ones influence is massively amplified by the very nature of a cup.

I think this cup-tied rule thing should be scrapped and transfers should be just accepted as part and parcel of the game and players play in comps for new clubs!

Yeah, as I said, scrapping it would be no problem for me, I just don't believe its possible to have an inbetween in this case, it has to be either no cup tying, or noone can influence the cup for 2 teams.

el dude

Completely silly rule really. its bad enough them even allowing the third placed teams into not but then denying players the right to partake because of it? Bit daft really.