Sacked for being on sick.

Bannasidhe

Wonder if anyone can advise - the part-time cleaner where my partner works was given 2 weeks notice today. The manager vaguely phrased it as 'letting her go'- so we are unsure if she is being made redundant or sacked. He did tell my partner last month that as this woman has been out sick for some time (she supplied doctors certs) he was getting rid of her. Is it legal to sack someone who has been unable to work for medical reasons?
The company has been paying her wages.

Nody

Sacked would be misconduct, this sounds as termination of contract during probation period (due to the two weeks notice).

And yes, people can be let go for being sick (rather for not being able to perform their duties any more) but as noted above it sounds as the notice was giving during probation.

the_syco

Bannasidhe wrote: »

He did tell my partner last month that as this woman has been out sick for some time (she supplied doctors certs)

From http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/dismissal/fair_grounds_for_dismissal.html

In a case of a long-term absence, however, your employer will be expected to obtain detailed medical evidence that an early return to work is unlikely. There is no set period of absence by which it can be said that a dismissal will or will not be considered reasonable. Obviously, the longer the absence, the easier it is for your employer to show that it is causing genuine difficulty in terms of the organisation of the workplace.

I'm thinking that if the person has been frequently sick, and thus unable to do their job, then their job is being terminated.

Bannasidhe

She did ask yesterday as to whether she was being sacked or made redundant and the manager then promised 'to get her her entitlements' so we are still unsure what the situation actually is. The same company is in the process of being sued by the previous manager for unfair dismissal as he was made redundant and his post was subsequently tweaked on paper before being filled.

Dublin_Gunner

Bannasidhe wrote: »

She did ask yesterday as to whether she was being sacked or made redundant and the manager then promised 'to get her her entitlements' so we are still unsure what the situation actually is. The same company is in the process of being sued by the previous manager for unfair dismissal as he was made redundant and his post was subsequently tweaked on paper before being filled.

This sounds like unfair dismissal to me. Although without knowing if there have been any procedures followed, its difficult to definitely tell.

No, you cannot be sacked for being sick. If certs are being provided, there is very little an employer can do.

Of course, they do not have to pay for sick leave.

If its the case that the woman was very frequently sick, it may be a case that the employer might want to get to the bottom of the problem, and explain that there is a serious build up of work etc due to her being sick so often.

This would have to be discussed with the employee. Certainly, if it is a recurring problem, the employer can ask that the employee has this checked out thoroughly, and if it is going to serious affect her attendance in future, other arrangements will have to be made.

However, if it is as straight forward as in your OP - she will be entitled to claim for unfair dismissal should she wish. (though she must have at least 12 months service).

Bannasidhe

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

This sounds like unfair dismissal to me. Although without knowing if there have been any procedures followed, its difficult to definitely tell.

No, you cannot be sacked for being sick. If certs are being provided, there is very little an employer can do.

Of course, they do not have to pay for sick leave.

If its the case that the woman was very frequently sick, it may be a case that the employer might want to get to the bottom of the problem, and explain that there is a serious build up of work etc due to her being sick so often.

This would have to be discussed with the employee. Certainly, if it is a recurring problem, the employer can ask that the employee has this checked out thoroughly, and if it is going to serious affect her attendance in future, other arrangements will have to be made.

However, if it is as straight forward as in your OP - she will be entitled to claim for unfair dismissal should she wish. (though she must have at least 12 months service).

Thank you Dublin_Gunner.

She has been there 4 years. No discussion ever took place between her and the newly appointed manager as to her sick leave. He basically waited until she returned to work to inform her she was 'being let go'. It has since emerged that this was a unilateral decision by this particular manager and did not originate from head office which has expressed concern about the legality of his action. However, despite his promise to get her 'her entitlements' last week and to provide a letter as to whether she has bee sacked or made redundant - nothing has happened.

Eoin

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

No, you cannot be sacked for being sick. If certs are being provided, there is very little an employer can do.

That's not true. If you are unable to do your job through illness then you can be let go. All a sick cert does is give some evidence that you were ill, it is not a free pass.

Edit - in fact, this has been covered in the link above.

seamus

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

No, you cannot be sacked for being sick. If certs are being provided, there is very little an employer can do.

That's not true really. An employer has no obligation to keep your job open or retain your position if you are on long-term illness. Certs have no legal status in employment law, they only apply for welfare payments where you must have them in order for you or your employer to claim illness benefit for the days you are sick.

It's mostly contract-dependent. Most contracts don't stipulate what happens in the event of long-term illness, they simply state what the terms are when you get ill - generally people either do or don't get paid and are usually required to furnish a cert after 3 days.

A company would be well within its rights to serve someone with notice if the person is on long-term sick leave, however many contracts state that the contract will only be terminated in line with the disciplinary procedure, and don't mention illness. So there's no provision for that employer to terminate the contract except if the person screws up.

Legally speaking though, there is no statutory legislation which prevents the employer from terminating the employment for consistent failure to show up for work, sick cert or no sick cert.

So tl;dr it all depends on this woman's contract of employment.

Bannasidhe

The frustrating thing is that she does not know if she has been sacked or made redundant as the manager is being so vague and has failed to clarify her position which has implications for any claim she may wish to make for social welfare.

Dublin_Gunner

To seamus and Eoin - you cannot just be sacked for being sick. I explained above. There are procedures which must be followed.

She needs to seek legal advice first. That would be my main advice.

Eoin

It's always worth qualifying these things though. Some people think that a company can take absolutely no action at all if you're sick, just because you can produce a sick note. This is not the case. There are procedures that have to be followed, but it can happen.

seamus

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

To seamus and Eoin - you cannot just be sacked for being sick. I explained above. There are procedures which must be followed.

That depends on the company. There is no legally mandated "procedure" which must be followed before you can sack someone. All you need is a valid reason.

racso1975

Eoin wrote: »

That's not true. If you are unable to do your job through illness then you can be let go. All a sick cert does is give some evidence that you were ill, it is not a free pass.

Edit - in fact, this has been covered in the link above.

Just out of interest what kind of time are you looking at?

I have worked for same place for 3 years and was out sick 2 weeks ago this week and most like for 2 more weeks as i need a medical procedure done and then will be fully fit to return to work.
Over the 3 years that is the only sick leave. could my employer let me go on those grounds?


Edit: Decided not to be a lazy fecker and read the link thanks

Mrs OBumble

racso1975 wrote: »

I have worked for same place for 3 years and was out sick 2 weeks ago this week and most like for 2 more weeks as i need a medical procedure done and then will be fully fit to return to work.
Over the 3 years that is the only sick leave. could my employer let me go on those grounds?

There are two different issues:

Being "sick" too often could be an issue (but I wouldn't think so for four weeks over two years - except if those four weeks always happened on Monday mornings!).

But being sick right now, with no immediate hope of return because you are not able for the job, is a totally different thing. Your employment could be terminated because you're no longer fit for the job.