Milk and Dairy

Gary kk

Two fences a ditch and river is the record this year for heifers in heat.

auspicious

Donald Trump wrote: »

So you want to change the goalposts from the concept of impregnating the animal to the method of impregnation? Interesting.

".

Are you for real? Have I not repeatedly used the word FORCIBLY?
The fact that I'm now using lots of rhetorical questions speaks volumes.
Good luck.

Lady Haywire

auspicious wrote: »

The cow was put there. It's captive.
Yeah when you keep slaves you gotta put them to work don't ya!

Ah we're back to the old humanising of farm animals again. I keep slaves now. Well bejaypers, wouldn't you think I'd be arrested for that.

I'm trying to explain why things are done. And I'm being told I keep slaves. Fabulous.

auspicious

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Ah we're back to the old humanising of farm animals again. I keep slaves now. Well bejaypers, wouldn't you think I'd be arrested for that.

I'm trying to explain why things are done. And I'm being told I keep slaves. Fabulous.

Not humanising. It's called logical consistency.
And yes your sentient beings are enslaved. Anything enslaved by definition is a slave. That's logically consistent too.
You see everything I say from your perspective. Everything I say, I say from the animal's perspective.

NcdJd

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Ah we're back to the old humanising of farm animals again. I keep slaves now. Well bejaypers, wouldn't you think I'd be arrested for that.

I'm trying to explain why things are done. And I'm being told I keep slaves. Fabulous.

I would think your more the slave to them Lady H. I went through some of your tweets yesterday for a nosey and it's an absolute credit to you how you treat your animals. Any animal that lands on your farm is one lucky beast!

Lady Haywire

auspicious wrote: »

Not humanising. It's called logical consistency.
And yes your sentient beings are enslaved. Anything enslaved by definition is a slave. That's logically consistent too.
You see everything I say from your perspective. Everything I say, I say from the animal's perspective.

So what's your take on guide dogs, are they enslaved?
Ponies kept in stables for riding?
Animals in zoos being looked at by the public, even if being used as captive breeding for endangered species?

All slaves?

Or could we actually look at the meaning of slave & see that it refers to humans not animals.

(especially in the past) a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.

Lady Haywire

NcdJd wrote: »

I would think your more the slave to them Lady H. I went through some of your tweets yesterday for a nosey and it's an absolute credit to you how you treat your animals. Any animal that lands on your farm is one lucky beast!

Ah sure I only do that for the cameras :rolleyes:

NcdJd

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Ah sure I only do that for the cameras :rolleyes:

True ya must be worth millions at this stage.

Donald Trump

auspicious wrote: »

Are you for real? Have I not repeatedly used the word FORCIBLY?
The fact that I'm now using lots of rhetorical questions speaks volumes.
Good luck.

You actually don't have a clue of what you are talking about. How much physical "force" do you think is used or indeed "needed"? You are simply anthropomorphising

auspicious

I see nothing wrong with applying the term to animals to convey my opposition to their being exploited, held captive and 'put to work'.

While meat and dairy aren't essential a guide-dog could be argued to be.

Donald Trump

auspicious wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with applying the term to animals to convey my opposition to their being exploited, held captive and 'put to work'.

While meat and dairy aren't essential a guide-dog could be argued to be.

What about cats? I asked that one because of the movement to eliminate outdoor cats.


You used the word "imprison" in relation to animals. Would a cat who is not let outdoors be imprisoned? Would you be ok with cats who are kept indoors fulltime and kept purely as human companions/entertainment?



I can understand the argument for wiping out all external cats. That is not "neutering" them and letting them live. That might be part of an initial strategy to try to eliminate them but the goal would be their total elimination.

Lady Haywire

auspicious wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with applying the term to animals to convey my opposition to their being exploited, held captive and 'put to work'.

While meat and dairy aren't essential a guide-dog could be argued to be.

Apply the term all you like but it's incorrect.
Comparing farming to slavery could be incredibly insulting to descendants of freed slaves, considering a lot of animals these days get excellent treatment, housing, food, access to veterinary care etc.

Markcheese

Donald Trump wrote: »

Is it alright to do it if there is no profit in it?

Well that's most beef farmers covered so ... ðŸ˜

auspicious

Imprison means to hold captive. While one could not argue against the fact that the factory farmed pigs in the previously posted video are imprisoned it it's more difficult to apply it directly to cats kept indoors. Cats kept indoors are very safe and protected from succumbing to disease or injury outdoors. They on average lead long lives. Happy lives as long as all their basic needs are met. Keeping them indoors also protects against their impact on biodiversity.
Some are of the opinion that yes it is captivity and a cat should be allowed the experience of the outdoors. They are after all already alive and focus should be put on not allowing more ferals to populate, especially in landscapes not native to them or able to sustain them.

Markcheese

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As poor a post as I’ve ever seen.

Take a bow.

Also, I think the word you’re looking to explain the things you’re touching on is - Nature.

Well then ,bow deep i shall .
Natural good ? , human intervention bad ?

None of our food is natural ... It's been selectively bred ,over thousands of years , to grow in places it never originally could ,and in forms that bear little relation to their original type ..
That goes for plant and animal ...

Donald Trump

Markcheese wrote: »

Well that's most beef farmers covered so ... ðŸ˜

That was going to be my response if there had been a reply

Donald Trump

auspicious wrote: »

Imprison means to hold captive. While one could not argue against the fact that the factory farmed pigs in the previously posted video are imprisoned it it's more difficult to apply it directly to cats kept indoors. Cats kept indoors are very safe and protected from succumbing to disease or injury outdoors. They on average lead long lives. Happy lives as long as all their basic needs are met. Keeping them indoors also protects against their impact on biodiversity.
Some are of the opinion that yes it is captivity and a cat should be allowed the experience of the outdoors. They are after all already alive and focus should be put on not allowing more ferals to populate, especially in landscapes not native to them or able to sustain them.

You have given definitions but not your own viewpoint. My friend, from whom I learned all of this, loves cats but wants all outside cats to be eliminated and for all house cats to be kept indoors permanently. She has her own cat and treats it almost like a child. Probably better than some children get treated if the truth be told.



That is her opinion and she is clear on that. Her position is not to allow nature to run its course by allowing the cat to go out and hunt whenever its nature urges it to. House cats are fine but must be kept indoors at all time. (That seems like a prison to me in fairness.) . You talk about basic needs, but the cat has other instincts that cannot be satisfied by a life indoors.

Markcheese

Jjameson wrote: »

If the calf is taken instantly there’s no bond. The calf knows no different and the cow settles very quickly. Divide a 9 month weanling and there is stress.

Although there are ways of doing that now ,that seriously reduce stress in the cow and weanling ,( easiwean ,supposed to be the cats PJs )

auspicious

Jjameson wrote: »

Have you any experience of working with cows to be an authority on their perspective? Why would you assume that’d have you speak for them?

You’d still feed them to cats and older dogs?

I'm no authority. All you need is empathy to put yourself in somebody else's position and consider the ethical implications.

Yes I feed animal flesh to the cats. It is a necessity.
Once again questions are being asked which don't reflect an understanding of at least the definition of what a vegan is.

-Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.

Pretty disgraceful the ridicule you’re facing auspicious for your choices.

Not sure why it’s allowed.

The whataboutery is beyond ridiculous.

I’ve no idea why you’re responding to most of those posts that are clearly refusing or making any effort to understand your choices.

Donald Trump

Deleted User wrote: »

Pretty disgraceful the ridicule you’re facing auspicious for your choices.

Not sure why it’s allowed.

The whataboutery is beyond ridiculous.

I’ve no idea why you’re responding to most of those posts that are clearly refusing or making any effort to understand your choices.

Not one person has ridiculed anyone for their choice to be a vegan. If you want to be a vegan be a vegan and fair play to you. It is none of mine or anyone elses' business. Vegan meals can actually be quite nice and it could be an education for non-vegans to try them once in a while. A non-vegan can still eat and enjoy "vegan" food


People has challenged him/her on their incorrect assumptions about cruelty.

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

Not one person has ridiculed anyone for their choice to be a vegan. If you want to be a vegan be a vegan and fair play to you. It is none of mine or anyone elses' business. Vegan meals can actually be quite nice and it could be an education for non-vegans to try them once in a while. A non-vegan can still eat and enjoy "vegan" food


People has challenged him/her on their incorrect assumptions about cruelty.

Well maybe you haven’t read many posts on the forum. There’s plenty of ridicule.

You think you run the rule on what’s cruel ?

Donald Trump

Deleted User wrote: »

Well maybe you haven’t read many posts on the forum. There’s plenty of ridicule.

You think you run the rule on what’s cruel ?

I didn't see anything on this thread in relation to attacking anyone for being a vegan. I have not read any other threads in the forum, never mind all of them.


I am not the god of cruelty. However, if someone tells me that something is cruel, when they obviously don't really understand what is going on, and therefore their assumption is not based on reality, then I am entitled to give my opinion.

gozunda

Donald Trump wrote: »

I didn't see anything on this thread in relation to attacking anyone for being a vegan. I have not read any other threads in the forum, never mind all of them.
I am not the god of cruelty. However, if someone tells me that something is cruel, when they obviously don't really understand what is going on, and therefore their assumption is not based on reality, then I am entitled to give my opinion.

Sadly its such extreme vitriol which seems to have now become part of the course in recent times. And unfortunately much of that apparently derived from these online videos allegedly showing 'cruelty'

Video's like those of Eathling Ed who has a financial value of well over $68 million plus Patreon and other sources made from his anti farming 'cruelty" videos. $ 68 million made from flogging 'cruelty' to impressionable kids.

Then when a farmer posts a clip of a cow giving birth on Facebook or Twitter - he gets death threats for him and his family. And that has happened in this country

When did this become acceptable?
Unfortunately Ignoring the problem of such radicalisation only allows the threats to grow in intensity.

More importantly its hate mongering. And Its not even that those who make these videos help the actual animals their filming. They don’t. They just use the videos to make money by trying to convince others that all farming is 'cruel' and claim that it doesn't matter whether it happens here or abroad. Tbh its no better than telling people here that driving is dangerous because of some videos showing bad driving by drivers in Russia. Completly unbelievable tbh.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Sadly its such extreme vitriol which seems to have now become part of the course in recent times. And unfortunately much of that apparently derived from these online videos allegedly showing 'cruelty'

Video's like those Eathling Ed who has a financial value of well over $68 million from Patreon and other sources made from his anti farming 'cruelty" videos. $ 68 million made from flogging 'cruelty' to impressionable kids.

Then when a farmer posts a clip of a cow giving birth on Facebook or Twitter - he gets death threats for him and his family. And that has happened in this country

When did this become acceptable?
Unfortunately Ignoring the problem of such radicalisation only allows the threats to grow in intensity.

More importantly its hate mongering. And Its not even that those who make these videos help the actual animals their filming. They don’t. They just use the videos to make money by trying to convince others that all farming is 'cruel' and claim that it doesn't matter whether it happens here or abroad. Tbh its no better than telling people here that driving is dangerous because of some videos showing bad driving by drivers in Russians. Completly unbelievable.

Your post contains some of the classics here -

Extreme vitriol
Hate mongering
Vegans = impressionable kids
‘Cruelty’
Radicalisation

And yet your post on the feedback thread painted a different picture.

And fair play to you for supporting Eathling Ed. I’d never heard of him until you started watching his videos. I still don’t know who he is but I’m sure you’ve directed a lot of people to his videos from all you talk about him. Do you subscribe too ? What platforms is he on ? Do you have any links ?

I suppose it’s true that there’s no bad publicity so those post, I assume inadvertently, are supporting him financially.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Your post contains some of the classics here -
Extreme vitriol
Hate mongering
Vegans = impressionable kids
‘Cruelty’
Radicalisation
And yet your post on the feedback thread painted a different picture.
And fair play to you for supporting Eathling Ed. I’d never heard of him until you started watching his videos. I still don’t know who he is but I’m sure you’ve directed a lot of people to his videos from all you talk about him. Do you subscribe too ? What platforms is he on ? Do you have any links ?
I suppose it’s true that there’s no bad publicity so those post, I assume inadvertently, are supporting him financially.

I thoughts you weren't talking to me? No worries.

Sorry you feel that about words. (They relate to the videos btw)

But what 'picture' are you talking about. My comments are what they are. I find reasonable discussion is generally good imo....
I made no mention of 'vegans' btw.

And I'm fairly sure its just regular kids who tend to use social media and are more likely to come across this kind of monetised stuff. Terrible stuff really.



I believe the current discussion was on 'cruelty' btw. Nah but I can't take the credit I'm afraid. I was reading various news reports about it recently.

Personally I'm more offended by lies and misery porn merchants making money out of cruelty by flogging such video footage.

And I think it was videos here posted by another poster where I first saw them. Incredible that some earn so much money from cruelty. And then they try and claim thats what farmers are guilty of...

Unearthly

gozunda wrote: »

I thoughts you weren't talking to me? No worries.

But what 'picture' are you talking about. My comments are what they are. I find reasonable discussion is generally good imo.

Sorry you're offended by those words.

I made no mention of 'vegans' btw.

And I'm fairly sure its just regular kids who tend to use social media and are more likely to come across this kind of monetised stuff. Terrible really.

I believe the current discussion was on 'cruelty' btw. Nah but I can't take the credit I'm afraid. I was reading some news reports about it recently and thats how it is described.

Personally I'm more offended by lies and misery porn merchants making money out of cruelty by flogging such video footage.

And I think it was videos here posted by another poster where I first saw them. Incredible that some earn so much money from cruelty. And then they try and claim thats what farmers are guilty of...

Source for 68 million net worth claim please

Unearthly

Unearthly wrote: »

Source for 68 million net worth claim please

Any update on this ?

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Any update on this ?

Why - i don't think you asked that question?

unfortunately I've had to put some posters on ignore due to recent comments on this forum.

I think that's allowed afaik.

But yeah its there already. Or look it up. Its all there.

Panch18

Some absolute lunatics on this thread

A cow out roaming around a field is in prison but a cat that is not allowed outside is not in prison

Some ****ed up logic with this crowd there is no doubt about it