Milk and Dairy

gozunda

antor wrote: »

Sorry mate did not mean to upset you. If you want me to delete the post I will. I don’t mind. I’m not one for getting into debates online. I really don’t have the time. I just found it interesting that the majority of the world’s population are lactose intolerant. I really thought it was the other way around. Well I suppose its what kind of culture you are brought up in. I’m lactose intolerant, do you know what that’s like?? If you have a small bit of dairy you will have a bad dose of diarrhoea. If you consume a lot of dairy, you end up with a massive migraine with a lot of vomiting. Once its out of your system your grand. So, its best just to avoid dairy altogether. If you want to enlighten me about the lies in that video, I’m all ears.

Fek away with that type of rubbish You say you don't want discussion but are quite happy to post bs propaganda videos going on about "government collusion" and everyone being "lied to". What a load of horse manure.

And no - the absolute majority of people in Ireland and northern Europe are not lactose intolant and don’t spontanously explode when they drink milk or whatever you are trying to peddle as part of your personal bias. Notably you recount your alleged issues with dairy products in the third person as if that somehow will happen to eveyone. You're kidding no one my friend.

And yes its a fact practically all children worldwide can consume dairy products including milk up to at least up 6-7 years old. So your personal account is little more than that.

As someone one above has already stated above - this thread runs close to the line of incitment to hatred against farmers and farming in many respects.

In a previous comment I already asked how would posters here react if others put up a "Vegan diets = cruelty to babies and children" thread in the farming forum based on the many reported cases of this happening and resulting convictions

I personally would think it would be against Boards TOU - but here we have a small number of posters vilifying farming and farmers in order to promote their lifestyle choice using Videos from the US and God knows where which have fek all relevance to farming here.

I could go on but I 'don't have time' ...

Bigbooty

Most vegans don't hate farmers at all. We're not a homogenous group of people or a cult. It's laughable to suggest that. We hate the act of dairy farming as well as other parts of animal based agriculture. It's not a lifestyle, it's ethics.

Controlling the reproductive process of another creature, separating it's offspring, killing it when it's spent and the culling or live export of unwanted males soon after they are born - does that really sound like a cruelty free industry? I don't really think farmers enjoy these aspects and merely accept them as part of their reality. If you don't feel anything when you kill a week old animal then there's something wrong with you. The former farmers turned vegan talk about this issue way better than I do.

As people who want better protection for animals and for humans to respect their sentience, it's perfectly acceptable for us to challenge dairy farming and push for social change. You can't silence us because it makes you uncomfortable or you disagree with us.

Something's only propaganda when you disagree with it even though there are truths in the message. He's made a video looking at the industry overall. Obviously some cows live reasonable enough lives in a field here for the most part but that's built upon the premise that they'll keep producing milk and babies. As soon as they dry up it's off to the slaughterhouse to become pet food.

gozunda

Bigbooty wrote: »

Most vegans don't hate farmers at all. We're not a homogenous group of people or a cult. It's laughable to suggest that. We hate the act of dairy farming as well as other parts of animal based agriculture. It's not a lifestyle, it's ethics. Controlling the reproductive process of another creature, separating it's offspring, killing it when it's spent and the culling or live export of unwanted males soon after they are born - does that really sound like a cruelty free industry? I don't really think farmers enjoy these aspects and merely accept them as part of their reality. If you don't feel anything when you kill a week old animal then there's something wrong with you. The former farmers turned vegan talk about this issue way better than I do. As people who want better protection for animals and for humans to respect their sentience, it's perfectly acceptable for us to challenge dairy farming and push for social change. You can't silence us because it makes you uncomfortable or you disagree with us. Something's only propaganda when you disagree with it even though there are truths in the message. He's made a video looking at the industry overall. Obviously some cows live reasonable enough lives in a field here for the most part but that's built upon the premise that they'll keep producing milk and babies. As soon as they dry up it's off to the slaughterhouse to become pet food.

Well tbh you wouldn't know it from this thread and others vilifying farmers in this forum. The hate expressed most certainly is targeted at farming and farmers. And the making generalisations largely based on vegan videos and websites certainly does not add to any argument. Such videos use information selectively and more often than not only show worse case incident usually in the US or the UK. So yeah about as relevant as a bag of weasels

You suggest its about "ethics". Whose ethics exactly? Your own? The absolute majority of farmers in my experience treat animals with care and welfare in mind. Not only because its what the law says but also because its the right thing to do. The fact you don't like that is neither here nor there.

My ethics include strong feelings against children and babies being starved by parents forcing unsuitable vegan diets on them. As suggested how would you feel about such a thread in lets say the Farming forum including videis and testimonies? You be OK with that? Or would you point out maybe that's not the whole story?

To paraphrase some of the language you've used: If you don't you feel anything when you see a baby starved to the point of brain damage then there's something wrong with you. There are ex vegans and others who openly talk about this issue way better than I do.

As people who want better protection for children who cant speak up for themselves it's therefore perfectly acceptable for others to challenge this type of bs and push for change. You can't silence us because it makes you uncomfortable or you disagree with us.

Easy to swing an emotive message isnt it?

But as you said something's only propaganda when you disagree with it even though there are truths in the message. ....

antor

gozunda wrote: »

Fek away with that type of rubbish You say you don't want discussion but are quite happy to post bs propaganda videos going on about "government collusion" and everyone being "lied to". What a load of horse manure.

Hey dude, I offered to take the post down two hours after a comment was made on it, but the request was never made, so its still up there.
If you want to go ahead and point out the lies in the video go ahead.

gozunda wrote: »

And no - the absolute majority of people in Ireland and northern Europe are not lactose intolant and don’t spontanously explode when they drink milk or whatever you are trying to peddle as part of your personal bias. Notably you recount your alleged issues with dairy products in the third person as if that somehow will happen to eveyone. You're kidding no one my friend.
And yes its a fact practically all children worldwide can consume dairy products including milk up to at least up 6-7 years old. So your personal account is little more than that.

I said the majority of the worlds population are lactose intolerant and that is a scientific fact that you will find in peer reviewed science papers. Ireland and northern Europe does not make up majority of the world’s population.
As for my “alleged issues with dairy products” I was drinking milk well into my thirties. There was nothing better than a pint of milk and a bag of chips.
It did not just happen overnight; I suddenly didn’t wake up thinking to myself that I’m now lactose intolerant. It started out with a lot of heartburn and then I started having other issues that I mention in an early post. That was over the course of about 6 months. I was advised by a dietitian to cut down or cut out dairy.

gozunda wrote: »

In a previous comment I already asked how would posters here react if others put up a "Vegan diets = cruelty to babies and children" thread in the farming forum based on the many reported cases of this happening and resulting convictions

Thousands of children die each day from hunger and malnourishment, but that doesn’t make good headlines. Whereas this does “'Vegan' parents charged in death of malnourished son.”
A bit like the headlines of an article you linked

"Vegans should stop drinking soya milk in order to save the rainforest"

Vegans go against the norm, and people do not like it.


There are plenty of parents out there raising their children on a vegan diet, but they do have to go that extra step and ensure that the child is getting the key nutrients required for growth and development. If the parents are not putting in that extra effort then, they should not have the child on a vegan diet.
There are also just wacky people out there, both vegan and non-vegan who are just not fit to raise a child.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/4482436/couple-who-dont-believe-in-doctors-charged-with-starving-son-3-to-death/

You should put up that thread but it should read “Bad parenting = cruelty to babies and children"

gozunda wrote: »

I could go on but I 'don't have time' ...

Looking at your post count, I really think you do.

Anyway, that is my keyboard warrior posts done for the year. See you next year

Bigbooty

gozunda wrote: »

Well tbh you wouldn't know it from this thread. The hate expressed most certainly is targeted at farming and farmers. And the making generalisations largely based on vegan videos and websites certainly does not add to any argument. Such videos use information selectively and more often than not only show worse case incidents usually in the US or the UK. So yeah about as relevant as a bag of weasels

You suggest its about "ethics". Whose ethics exactly? Your own? The absolute majority of farmers in my experience treat animals with care and welfare in mind. Not only because its what the law says but also because its the right thing to do. The fact you don't like that is neither here nor there.

I personally don't like the fact that children and babies are being starved by parents forcing unsuitable vegan diets on them. As suggested how would you feel about such a thread in lets say the Farming forum? You be OK with that? Or would you point out maybe that's not the whole story?

To paraphrase some of the language you've used: If you don't you feel anything when you see a baby starved to the point of brain damage then there's something wrong with you. There are ex vegans snd others who openly talk about this issue way better than I do.

As people who want better protection for children who cant speak up for themselves it's therefore perfectly acceptable for others to challenge this type of bs and push for change. You can't silence us because it makes you uncomfortable or you disagree with us.

Easy to swing an emotive message isnt it?

But as you said something's only propaganda when you disagree with it even though there are truths in the message. ....

Anyone who raises their children without considering their needs should be condemned. It's child abuse. Thankfully we have social services to intervene. FYI, A well planned predominantly whole foods plant based diet is suitable for all stages of life and I challenge you to provide me evidence to the contrary outside of some extreme cases of child neglect and abuse. Plenty of non-vegan parents neglect their children. ****ty people come in all shapes and sizes.

Ethics and morals are of course are entirely subjective. Yours allows for tolerating animal exploitation and cruelty which you're legally entitled to do. I'm also entitled to challenge your ethics and what is socially acceptable. Otherwise we would never have social progress on anything.

The issues I've highlighted are cruel and everyday practices of the dairy industry which are of course legally allowed. Is legally culling a 7 day old male calf because it's an economic burden moral? Would you say strangling puppys because you didn't want them is ethical? The law is the difference between the two. One is food and ones family despite both being sentient creatures capable of deep emotional bonds.

We can very clearly see that animals are visibly distressed when they experience insemination, have their babies removed, are brought to slaughterhouses and kept on boats for 30 days. Is the act of harming someone or something, inflicting pain, whether emotional, mental or physical moral? I think compassion is a cornerstone of ethics/morality. Veganism at its core is a movement to live in a way that more compassionate with other humans and the natural world.

Farmers will adapt to growing whatever the market needs. If the market becomes more plant based then they'll change. They'll still earn money and get state aid. But we need transparency and accountability as to where our food comes from including all accepted practices within dairy farming. You've failed to explain to me how any of the issues that I've raised are not cruel? (Which is of course what this threads about milk+ dairy =cruelty)

gozunda

antor wrote: »

Hey dude, I offered to take the post down two hours after a comment was made on it, but the request was never made, so its still up there. If you want to go ahead and point out the lies in the video go ahead. I said the majority of the worlds population are lactose intolerant and that is a scientific fact that you will find in peer reviewed science papers. Ireland and northern Europe does not make up majority of the world’s population. As for my “alleged issues with dairy products” I was drinking milk well into my thirties. There was nothing better than a pint of milk and a bag of chips. It did not just happen overnight; I suddenly didn’t wake up thinking to myself that I’m now lactose intolerant. It started out with a lot of heartburn and then I started having other issues that I mention in an early post. That was over the course of about 6 months. I was advised by a dietitian to cut down or cut out dairy.Thousands of children die each day from hunger and malnourishment, but that doesn’t make good headlines. Whereas this does “'Vegan' parents charged in death of malnourished son.” A bit like the headlines of an article you linked "Vegans should stop drinking soya milk in order to save the rainforest. Vegans go against the norm, and people do not like it. There are plenty of parents out there raising their children on a vegan diet, but they do have to go that extra step and ensure that the child is getting the key nutrients required for growth and development. If the parents are not putting in that extra effort then, they should not have the child on a vegan diet. There are also just wacky people out there, both vegan and non-vegan who are just not fit to raise a child https://www.thesun.ie/news/4482436/couple-who-dont-believe-in-doctors-charged-with-starving-son-3-to-death
You should put up that thread but it should read Bad parenting = cruelty to babies and children"Looking at your post count, I really think you do.Anyway, that is my keyboard warrior posts done for the year. See you next year

Go ahead take it down - not just me saying this thread is verging on outright hate and vilification.

Btw I took a look and the video is another load of generalised vegan coblers. I think that fairly well covers it.

I see you and your fellow poster are relatively new posters. However I somehow think testimonies on your or my medical issues prove anything on way or the other do they?

The point on " I don't have time" was whst you said regarding your posting vegan videos which allegedly tell us that's it all a big conspiracy or wtte. But then claiming you didnt have time to discuss same. Seems that's changed eh?

The comparison of "vegan diets=cruelty to children" and "dairy = cruelty" is that they are exactly the same type of threads. Both aiming to villiyfy and attacking others. Odd some seem to be in denial here about that no?

And do we see actual threads in this forum actually discussing these type of vegan related problems or people giving advice on these issues Do we fuk.

Nope its endleas anti farming bs propaganda. Thread after thread. And some wonder why some posters might stand up and point out the inherent hypocrisy.

But there ye go. That's where we are eh?

gozunda

Bigbooty wrote: »

Anyone who raises their children without considering their needs should be condemned. It's child abuse. Thankfully we have social services to intervene. FYI, A well planned predominantly whole foods plant based diet is suitable for all stages of life and I challenge you to provide me evidence to the contrary outside of some extreme cases of child neglect and abuse. Plenty of non-vegan parents neglect their children. ****ty people come in all shapes and sizes. Ethics and morals are of course are entirely subjective. Yours allows for tolerating animal exploitation and cruelty which you're legally entitled to do. I'm also entitled to challenge your ethics and what is socially acceptable. Otherwise we would never have social progress on anything. The issues I've highlighted are cruel and everyday practices of the dairy industry which are of course legally allowed. Is legally culling a 7 day old male calf because it's an economic burden moral? Would you say strangling puppys because you didn't want them is ethical? The law is the difference between the two. One is food and ones family despite both being sentient creatures capable of deep emotional bonds. We can very clearly see that animals are visibly distressed when they experience insemination, have their babies removed, are brought to slaughterhouses and kept on boats for 30 days. Is the act of harming someone or something, inflicting pain, whether emotional, mental or physical moral? I think compassion is a cornerstone of ethics/morality. Veganism at its core is a movement to live in a way that more compassionate with other humans and the natural world.

Farmers will adapt to growing whatever the market needs. If the market becomes more plant based then they'll change. They'll still earn money and get state aid. But we need transparency and accountability as to where our food comes from including all accepted practices within dairy farming. You've failed to explain to me how any of the issues that I've raised are not cruel? (Which is of course what this threads about milk+ dairy =cruelty)

Again another new poster (on this thread) proselytising against farming and farmers and of being a saintly vegan. Well you're in evident company. .

And just like child abuse - abuse of animals is also illegal and should be reported not used as stick to beat eveyone else over the head with who doesn't support your personal lifestyle.

As for this on ethics ...

Yours allows for tolerating animal exploitation and cruelty which you're legally entitled to do. I'm also entitled to challenge your ethics and what is socially acceptable. Otherwise we would never have social progress on anything.

Lordy you aint half preaching there eh?

Thats a nope. Incorrect and Wrong. Animal cruelty is illegal and not generally tolerated. Again if you know of such cases report them BUT do try and stupidily use it to villiyfy others.

I could just as easily disingenuously claim - yours allows vegan parents to exploit and treat their children cruelly. And ditto I should be also entitled to challenge your ethics and what is socially acceptable. Otherwise we would never have social progress on anything.

I somehow doubt you have any experience of how cattle behave when in oestrous etc other than what bs you've gleamed from propaganda vegan videos. Otherwise you wouldn't spout the same nonsense as every other anti on here.

And who the fuk is strangling puppies btw or is that simply more hyperemotive bullcrsp?

Vegan lifestyles are responsible for a huge amount of death in the animal world. Something which is handily ignored to declare that vegans are "compassionate". Tell that to the children's starved into brain injury. Or the wild animals killed so you can have exotic foods often produced in countries with few if any environmental controls or 'ethics" about such practises.

Great you think you can simply tell other people what to think. And that my friend is why veganism is often little more than a cult following seeking to vilify others.

It doesn't wash I'm afraid

antor

gozunda wrote: »

Go ahead take it down - not just me saying this thread is verging on outright hate and vilification.

I can’t edit the post , I will get onto the mod .

gozunda wrote: »

Btw I took a look and the video is another load of generalised vegan coblers. I think that fairly well covers it.

Wow , you debunked that video better than the other guy.

gozunda wrote: »

I see you and your fellow poster are relatively new posters. However I somehow think testimonies on your or my medical issues prove anything on way or the other do they?

I been a member of this site since 2005, getting into debates online is not my thing, FFS I’m sorry I put up the video now.

gozunda wrote: »

The point on " I don't have time" was whst you said regarding your posting vegan videos which allegedly tell us that's it all a big conspiracy or wtte. But then claiming you didnt have time to discuss same. Seems that's changed eh?

I don’t have the time, so I will get the video taken down , and we will just leave it at that.

Don’t drag me back into a pointless debate that goes nowhere.

Cheers

Bigbooty

gozunda wrote: »

Again another new poster proselytising against farming and farmers and being a saintly vegan. Well good for you.

And just like child abuse - abuse of animals is also illegal and should be reported not used as stick to beat eveyone else over the head with who doesn't support your personal lifestyle.

As for this on ethics ...



Lordy you aint half preaching there eh?

Thats a nope. Incorrect and Wrong. Animal cruelty is illegal and not generally tolerated. Again if you know of such cases report them BUT do try and stupidily use it to villiyfy others.

I could just as easily disingenuously claim - yours allows vegan parents to exploit and treat their children cruelly. And ditto I should be also entitled to challenge your ethics and what is socially acceptable. Otherwise we would never have social progress on anything.

I somehow doubt you have any experience of how cattle behave when in oestrous etc other than what bs you've gleamed from propaganda vegan videos. Othereise you wouldn't spout the same nonsense as every other anti on here.

And who the fuk is strangling puppies btw or is that simply more hyperemotive bullcrsp?

Vegan lifestyles are responsible for a huge amount death in the animal world. Something which is handily ignored to declare that vegans are "compassionate". Tell that to the children's starved into brain injury. Or the wild animals killed do you can have exotic foods often produced in countries with few if any environmental controls or 'ethics" about such practises.

Great you think you can simply tell other people what to think. And that my friend is why veganism is fact little more than a cult following seeking to vilify others.

It doesn't wash I'm afraid

Again you're routinely segueing away from dairy. Who are all these children that are dying because of veganism? Any that I know of are healthy and thriving. You don't know anything about nutrition otherwise you wouldn't be so ignorant.

You don't have a retort other than telling me that I'm proselytising and being a preachy vegan. That's the standard guff when someone tries to live more ethically.

There's no real difference between a calf and puppy but one is exempt from full animal cruelty legislation while the other is legally protected. Animals farmed for food are governed by different legislation. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's not cruel. You have failed to say how the practice that I've highlighted are not cruel and your reply is to call vegans cultish child abusers. I'm not engaging further as it really is a waste of time. Get out and meet some vegans in the post covid real world instead of basing all your views on earthling ed and social media.

gozunda

Bigbooty wrote: »

Again you're routinely segueing away from dairy. Who are all these children that are dying because of veganism? Any that I know of are healthy and thriving. You don't know anything about nutrition otherwise you wouldn't be so ignorant. You don't have a retort other than telling me that I'm proselytising and being a preachy vegan. That's the standard guff when someone tries to live more ethically. There's no real difference between a calf and puppy but one is exempt from full animal cruelty legislation while the other is legally protected. Animals farmed for food are governed by different legislation. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's not cruel. You have failed to say how the practice that I've highlighted are not cruel and your reply is to call vegans cultish child abusers. I'm not engaging further as it really is a waste of time. Get out and meet some vegans in the post covid real world instead of basing all your views on earthling ed and social media.

Again reckon you missed the point of the last couple of comments. And no I'm not going to go down a similar route that this thread has by pretending what's being vilified about dairy and farming is somehow the norm btw - it's not. That also holds for the reported stories on babies being fed on vegan diets. That said if you do wish to actually find out about that simply Google news.

Only pointing out which is evident. Much of the previous comment was preaching and an aggressive attack imo. Nothing to do do with your personal take on ethics. Sorry if that does not suit.

And yes there are legal definitions of what constitutes cruelty. And not what you think it means. Some people reckon keeping pets is cruelty but funnily enough that does not fall into any real definition of 'cruelty' either. Neither is farming - no matter how much you wish to paint it that way.

As to the bit highlighted. That's complete and utter bollix. All animals in Ireland fall under the same animal welfare legislation and prohibition on animal cruelty. Look it up if you are in any doubt

As to this "You don't know anything about nutrition otherwise you wouldn't be so ignorant". I'll simply say the exact same thing to you.

As to your suggestion that I should prove or disprove your ideas Lol. Its not up to me to explain that which has no basis in reality.

And btw no I never called vegans "child abusers". Them's your words. I have clearly stated that is an argument similar to what is being pushed by some on this thread about farmers and animals.

Agree on one point - no one should base any of their viewpoints from social media or earthling eds rantings. Whether that's farming or otherwise.

The cult reference relates to attempting to inform others how and what to think using propaganda. And as said that is why veganism comes across often little more than a following seeking to vilify others. Like this thread.

have2flushtwice

Serendipity99 wrote: »

I've been a vegan now for over a year (I was a vegetarian for a few years before that). I wish I'd become a vegan much earlier. I would have if I had known the facts about how milk is produced.

Have a look at this 4-minute video: http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/f/CAMPAIGNS/blog//4//?be_id=284
It shows what is involved in order to get cows to produce milk.
The main points are:

-Calves separated from their mothers at birth, causing severe stress.
-Cows udders are massive (this is totally unnatural).
-Cows suffer from lameness and mastitis as a result .
-Cows are kept pregnant constantly (through artificial insemination) in order to produce milk all year round.

-Cows all end up in the slaughterhouse when they are not deemed 'useful' any longer.
-Male calves (babies, essentially) are slaughtered because they are surplus to requirements.


Do humans have the right to do this to cows?

Are cows pets? Where will we put them all if we drop milking?

rock22

Only mammalian young can digest lactose, except a minority of humans who have a genetic mutation which allows them to digest milk.

Hilarious.

‘Take down the video’ cries millennial snowflake farmer generation.

The forum being policed by the snowflake farmers as evidenced by all the ‘thanks’ from that post.

Jaysus ‘change’ is the bitterest pill for some folk to swallow.

Enjoy your plant based milk and plant based cheese and plant based sausages folks. You’ll be a long time dead.

I read that Dean Foods, which is America’s largest milk producer, has applied for bankruptcy. Maybe that’s why so many farmers in Ireland are displaying such snowflake sensitivity but you got to respect peoples choice to choose cruelty free foods.

I’m off now for my oat milk flat white.

nthclare

The advantage a cow has over a vegan is when she eats her veg she stays the same colour.

But the vegan goes yellow, does a vegan diet change the pigment color?

Most vegans I know look yellow.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hilarious.
‘Take down the video’ cries millennial snowflake farmer generation. The forum being policed by the snowflake farmers as evidenced by all the ‘thanks’ from that post. Jaysus ‘change’ is the bitterest pill for some folk to swallow. Enjoy your plant based milk and plant based cheese and plant based sausages folks. You’ll be a long time dead. I read that Dean Foods, which is America’s largest milk producer, has applied for bankruptcy. Maybe that’s why so many farmers in Ireland are displaying such snowflake sensitivity but you got to respect peoples choice to choose cruelty free foods.

I’m off now for my oat milk flat white.

Grown by the very system you so vociferously deride.

No such thing as "cruelty free foods" from "plant based" products

Charlie Knoles, Vegan with B. science in biology and agriculture.

A lot of animals are killed in all kinds of agriculture. I'll never forget the first time I saw a combine harvester go through an organic soybean field and kill all the animals that had made that field their home. Among the many animals that died that day were baby bunnies that were skinned by the blades and were then eaten alive by hawks.  The hawks followed the harvester through the field looking for an easy meal. I knew that the farmer had contracted his crop to an organic tofu company and that most of the people eating this food would be vegans and vegetarians. The irony of this situation was enough to stop me from going vegan for many years afterwards. I would frequently bring up this anecdote when I would argue with vegan friends.

It still annoys me when my fellow vegans act as though their lifestyle is 100% cruelty free and that no animals die in the process of making their food. It speaks to an ignorance of the realities of farming and rural life.

You might want to avoid the coffee as well ...

Funny that

Edited to add link. Couldn't do so as was on my phone.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Grown by the very system you so vociferously derile.

Funny that.

What are you on about ?

ganmo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hilarious.

‘Take down the video’ cries millennial snowflake farmer generation.

The forum being policed by the snowflake farmers as evidenced by all the ‘thanks’ from that post.

Jaysus ‘change’ is the bitterest pill for some folk to swallow.

Enjoy your plant based milk and plant based cheese and plant based sausages folks. You’ll be a long time dead.

I read that Dean Foods, which is America’s largest milk producer, has applied for bankruptcy. Maybe that’s why so many farmers in Ireland are displaying such snowflake sensitivity but you got to respect peoples choice to choose cruelty free foods.

I’m off now for my oat milk flat white.

Applying for bankruptcy is not a bad thing in America it seems...ask trump :P

Dean foods revenue = 7 billion
Land o lakes revenue = 14 billion

We don't care about you changing, it's when you attack that's when we care

ganmo

ganmo wrote: »

Applying for bankruptcy is not a bad thing in America it seems...ask trump :P

Dean foods revenue = 7 billion
Land o lakes revenue = 14 billion

We don't care about you changing, it's when you attack that's when we care

Who attacked you ?

ganmo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who attacked you ?

We = farmers

ganmo

ganmo wrote: »

We = farmers

You’d want to have a word with that Gozunda guy so.

He reckons all farming is cruel.

ganmo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You’d want to have a word with that Gozunda guy so.

He reckons all farming is cruel.

In some ways it is. It has to kill one or many things to keep others alive

gozunda

Deleted User wrote: »

You’d want to have a word with that Gozunda guy so.
He reckons all farming is cruel.

You making it up up again Klop?

This is what was stated:

No such thing as "cruelty free foods" from "plant based" products

They don't exist Klopp no matter how much you claim they do. Or use that pretence of moral superiority to attack others.

I think you missed this as well.

It still annoys me when my fellow vegans act as though their lifestyle is 100% cruelty free and that no animals die in the process of making their food. It speaks to an ignorance of the realities of farming and rural life.

It’s nice that you recognise and admit to the cruelty.

As an aside I was wondering did the farmers on Boards.ie appoint you as their spokesperson ?

Or did you appoint yourself ?

Thought it was funny there was a rallying cry for you on the farming forum yesterday. They all came over to support you with ‘thanks’. Bless.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s nice that you recognise and admit to the cruelty. As an aside I was wondering did the farmers on Boards.ie appoint you as their spokesperson ? Or did you appoint yourself ? Thought it was funny there was a rallying cry for you on the farming forum yesterday. They all came over to support you with ‘thanks’. Bless.

Really? Still dodging and weaving and flinging ****e Klopp lol? The only apparent 'cruelty' is your take on logic tbf

I would have at least hoped that you now understand theres no such thing as "cruelty free foods" from "plant based" products - from your personal take on "cruelty". And yes you are complicit in that simply by eating the foods you do. There's no exceptions.

Again applying the old spin? Nope - I'm no ones spokesperson. Just facts klopp. I could equally and disingenuously ask did the vegans on Boards.ie appoint you as their spokesperson? I somehow doubt it tbf.

Though good to see you are regularly visiting the farming forum. Perhaps you might learn positive something there and not simply base your ideas on apparent spite and hate.

NcdJd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s nice that you recognise and admit to the cruelty.

As an aside I was wondering did the farmers on Boards.ie appoint you as their spokesperson ?

Or did you appoint yourself ?

Thought it was funny there was a rallying cry for you on the farming forum yesterday. They all came over to support you with ‘thanks’. Bless.

You really have no idea how food is produced do you ? Your "cruelty free oat milk flat white" if you only knew how many small invertebrates such as mice and frogs are crushed up when the power harrow or min till disks fly over the soil to sow them oats. Or if you pour a glass of soy milk the fact that amazon rainforest have been cleared and burned for that privilege.

All agriculture is damaging to the environment and biodiversity, whether its plant or animal based. Thats a fact.

Gozunda is defending the fact that the title of this thread is very insulting to most farmers who care a great deal about their livestock and in most cases take the health of their animals more serious than their own bloody health.

nthclare

NcdJd wrote: »

You really have no idea how food is produced do you ? Your "cruelty free oat milk flat white" if you only knew how many small invertebrates such as mice and frogs are crushed up when the power harrow or min till disks fly over the soil to sow them oats. Or if you pour a glass of soy milk the fact that amazon rainforest have been cleared and burned for that privilege.

All agriculture is damaging to the environment and biodiversity, whether its plant or animal based. Thats a fact.

Gozunda is defending the fact that the title of this thread is very insulting to most farmers who care a great deal about their livestock and in most cases take the health of their animals more serious than their own bloody health.

And the irony is that soy is actually hybridised and it's dna totally manipulated and the vegans are drinking it by the bucket load.

Not realising that it's going to turn nasty in the long run.

Believe you me I've studied horticulture and in the know over 20 years.

And generic hybrids are not safe.
A lot of them are sprayed with harmful chemicals to keep the weeds down and it's all poison.

Bigbooty

NcdJd wrote: »

. Or if you pour a glass of soy milk the fact that amazon rainforest have been cleared and burned for that privilege.

85% of all soy is used for animal feed. The vast majority of new rainforest destruction is for animal grazing or growing crops to feed animals. It's Complete nonsense that a cup of soy milk is burning the Amazon. So get your facts right.

Actually 50% of the 3.4m tonnes of animal feed imported to this country each year is GMO soy and maize. So in a way Irish farmers are contributing more to the Amazon burning if you're going to start singling vegans out for destroying the Amazon.

To let you in on a secret, soy is grown in the EU too. Which is what I consume..

NcdJd

Bigbooty wrote: »

85% of all soy is used for animal feed. The vast majority of new rainforest destruction is for animal grazing or growing crops to feed animals. It's Complete nonsense that a cup of soy milk is burning the Amazon. So get your facts right.

Actually 50% of the 3.4m tonnes of animal feed imported to this country each year is GMO soy and maize. So in a way Irish farmers are contributing more to the Amazon burning if you're going to start singling vegans out for destroying the Amazon.

To let you in on a secret, soy is grown in the EU too. Which is what I consume..

I don't agree with imported feed at all. We have a great tillage industry here that can supply grains and pulses ( beans ) for animal feed. Also I'm not singling out vegans in this. I take it you might also read your food labels and try and avoid products with palm oil in them ?

My problem here specifically is that there is a thread basically created to say say farmers are in the cruelty business. Which is completely untrue. If you look in the farming and forestry form thread, nature on your farm, you will see most farmers are passionate about wildlife and biodiversity as well as their normal day to day care of their animals.

I don't see any biodiversity thread in here yet there is one basically calling farmers cruelty merchants. I've nothing against vegans, everyone is entitled to their views on things.

gozunda

Bigbooty wrote: »

85% of all soy is used for animal feed. The vast majority of new rainforest destruction is for animal grazing or growing crops to feed animals. It's Complete nonsense that a cup of soy milk is burning the Amazon. So get your facts right. Actually 50% of the 3.4m tonnes of animal feed imported to this country each year is GMO soy and maize. So in a way Irish farmers are contributing more to the Amazon burning if you're going to start singling vegans out for destroying the Amazon. To let you in on a secret, soy is grown in the EU too. Which is what I consume..

Wrong. The 80-85% relates to the proportion of meal extracted from soybeans. Not the percentage of soy crops grown worldwide.

Bigbooty - I now know you are simply repeating what you read - without checking the actual detail. I've seen the same rubbish figures repeated ad nasuem on various vegan websites etc. Its little better than propaganda tbh.

If you had bothered to read this or any thread where this has come up - you'd know that.

Nearly all soybeans are processed for their oil. Soy processors (such as Cargill & ADM) take the raw soybeans and separate the oil from the meal.

https://jepsonfamilyfarms.com/crops/soybeans/

Soy is grown in the US, Canada, Europe and yes South America.



As you can see for each bean processed 20% is oil and the remainder (approx 80%*) is mainly 'meal'.

The fact is almost all soy oil produced is sold for human use.

Even if the leftover soy meal was not fed to animals - soybeans would still be grown in South America and tge Amazon in order to produce oil - the most popular oil sold by volume worldwide.

And yes most of that 'meal' left over after processing the soybean for the production of oil - is used for animal feed including dog food, cat food, horse feed and also used for feeding chicken, pigs and yes some goes for cattle.

For example - here is it being used in 'vegan' dog food

In Ireland grass and fodder make up the largest proportion of all feed types for cattle.

As for the bit about feedstuffs being imported into Ireland. What is imported by wsy of feedstuffs mainly comes from the US and or Europe. Not the Amazon.

This is why grass-fed livestock farming is so important here.

* note this is where your '85%' figure comes from (The amount of oil extracted from beans varies on average between 80-85%.)

And I'm not a fan of soy btw. Interestingly whilst the biggest proportion of soy globally is grown in the United States - I am against it being grown in the Amazon.

NcdJd

If your dog or cat is in distress you bring it to a vet. When a livestock farmer's animal is in distress he or she will call the vet out. If a vet sensed a farmer was been cruel to his or her animals do you think they would remain in business long ? To answer - no they would not.