Milk and Dairy

Money money money.

That’s all the farmers care about.

Loads of examples on the farming forum.

Only recently a farmer was delighted when his young child responded to - what is a chicken ? Mooonnnneeeyyyyyy

I paraphrase the above. It’s how I remember it.

The forum itself is FULL of farmers deciding between money and putting an animal down. If there’s no profit the animal dies sooner than intended.

Anytime I read through some of the threads it’s clear what farmers want. More money. To say they care more about animals than money isn’t evidenced from anything I’ve read.

I remember being at secondary school and a lot of the farming children were pulled out once they could read well enough. No chance for the poor guys to go into any other industry. Can read good enough to fill out subsidy forms ? Then out you come. It was a real shame as 1-2 were capable of more but in fairness the rest didn’t have much about them and maybe the safety net of the farm was just as well.

Anyway. The public are now voting with their feet and money. It’s a good time when you see the savage industries rally in fear of losing money.

Farmers only care about money. People need to realise and except that.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Money money money. That’s all the farmers care about. Loads of examples on the farming forum. Only recently a farmer was delighted when he young child responded to - what is a chicken?MooonnnneeeyyyyyyI paraphrase the above. It’s how I remember it. The forum itself is FULL of farmers deciding between money and putting an animal down. If there’s no profit the animal dies sooner than intended. Anytime I read through some of the threads it’s clear what farmers want. More money. To say they care more about animals than money isn’t evidenced from anything I’ve read. I remember being at secondary school and a lot of the farming children were pulled out once they could read well enough. No chance for the poor guys to go into any other industry. Can read good enough to fill out subsidy forms ? Then out you come. It was a real shame as 1-2 were capable of more but in fairness the rest didn’t have much about them and maybe the safety net of the farm was just as well. Anyway. The public are now voting with their feet and money. It’s a good time when you see the savage industries rally in fear of losing money. Farmers only care about money. People need to realise and except that.

And that's the type of hate filled crsp on this thread that people are objecting to. Pathetic.

As earlier

klopparama wrote:

I’m off now for my oat milk flat white.

Grown by the very system you so vociferously deride ...

There’s zero hate in my post. That you feel hate may reflect more on the type of person you are.

Your idea of hate are really just my observations in life so far.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There’s zero hate in my post. That you feel hate may reflect more on the type of person you are. Your idea of hate are really just my observations in life so far.

Your post = Hate filled rant.

Yet you still want to guzzle your coffee grown by farmers in third world countries and oats grown by ordinary farmers here and elsewhere

Such posts are little more than disgusting hate filled rants. And you're surprised when others call them for what they are ...

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Your post = Hate filled rant.

Yet you still want to guzzle your coffee grown by farmers in third world countries and oats grown by ordinary farmers here and elsewhere

Such posts are little more than disgusting hate filled rants. And you're surprised when others call them for what they are ...

Can you stop accusing me of hate and apologise ?

NcdJd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Money money money.

That’s all the farmers care about.

Loads of examples on the farming forum.

Only recently a farmer was delighted when he young child responded to - what is a chicken ? Mooonnnneeeyyyyyy

I paraphrase the above. It’s how I remember it.

The forum itself is FULL of farmers deciding between money and putting an animal down. If there’s no profit the animal dies sooner than intended.

Anytime I read through some of the threads it’s clear what farmers want. More money. To say they care more about animals than money isn’t evidenced from anything I’ve read.

I remember being at secondary school and a lot of the farming children were pulled out once they could read well enough. No chance for the poor guys to go into any other industry. Can read good enough to fill out subsidy forms ? Then out you come. It was a real shame as 1-2 were capable of more but in fairness the rest didn’t have much about them and maybe the safety net of the farm was just as well.

Anyway. The public are now voting with their feet and money. It’s a good time when you see the savage industries rally in fear of losing money.

Farmers only care about money. People need to realise and except that.

What a ridiculous post. Of course farmers care about the price they get for their produce whether veg, grains or animals. Like any business or employee. The reason some of it is subsidised is to make it cheap for the likes of you and all other consumers to purchase. And no that is a very hate filled post. Good for you if that's the hatred you have for food producers.

_Brian

NcdJd wrote: »

What a ridiculous post. Of course farmers care about the price they get for their produce whether veg, grains or animals. Like any business or employee. The reason some of it is subsidised is to make it cheap for the likes of you and all other consumers to purchase. And no that is a very hate filled post. Good for you if that's the hatred you have for food producers.

Imagine not understanding that a job can have more than one serious priority, vegans must work at some serious simple stuff.

Gary kk

How much of your tax money goes towards farm subsidies? Anyone care to guess? Because it's no way near as much you would be lead to believe.

eviltwin

_Brian wrote: »

Imagine not understanding that a job can have more than one serious priority, vegans must work at some serious simple stuff.

Please don't lump us all in with the sentiments of that post, we aren't a hive mind.

_Brian

eviltwin wrote: »

Please don't lump us all in with the sentiments of that post, we aren't a hive mind.

Obviously that works both ways when damning footage or newspaper article is shared here.
As a farmer I’ve reported poor farming practice I’ve seen, can’t stand to see animals not treated to the best. My father used to say that the care of animals comes before humans because they didn’t choose to be farmed, that is our decision and it bears massive responsibility.

Gary kk

eviltwin wrote: »

Please don't lump us all in with the sentiments of that post, we aren't a hive mind.

Lol I don't know the way I hear it at parish pump....

ganmo

eviltwin wrote: »

Please don't lump us all in with the sentiments of that post, we aren't a hive mind.

Then challenge it!

It is too easy for klop and his like to dismiss farmers when we challenge the arguments.

Klop if you dont care about money I can send you an iban to send your wage to in future.

gozunda

Gary kk wrote: »

How much of your tax money goes towards farm subsidies? Anyone care to guess? Because it's no way near as much you would be lead to believe.

In 2019 nearly 3 million Euro was advanced to various types of privately run animal 'sanctuaries' in Ireland. This was net of money donated by individuals. Whilst I fully support animal welfare - the fact is that unlike farms - many of such type of operations are run without any controls or inspection. There was one not long ago boasting about giving chickens unapproved veterinary medications, others have been found keeping animals in appalling conditions. And yet time and time again threads like this descend solely into open attacks on all farmers. Some places certainly do good work - however what is also true is a certain proportion of these are little more than an excuse to set up an income stream with the aim of supposedly 'saving animals' or wtte.

Bigbooty

Yeah,I'm aware of the demand for soy oil but Meal is not simply a byproduct, its extremely lucrative in of itself. I'm sure you're aware of this. The global market for soy meal is well about 250 million tonnes while soy oil is around 55. The value of soy Meal around 300-400 dollars a ton while soy oil is 700-800. The big drivers for new soy are in poultry and pig farming particularly in china. My sources are from websites relating to soybean industry, agriculture sustainability organisations and the FDA. I don't really need to use vegan websites for facts as the farming sector provides freely available statistics.

And as per the other poster mentioning palm oil. You'll find a lot of hatred for palm oil in the vegan community groups. I don't personally eat it or a lot of overly processed food for that matter.

Klopp represents himself. Veganism is not a cult and people are entitled to be as ridiculous as he is. He is not representative of my own views.

Perhaps it's better to find commonalities, because we've more to loose when we're in such direct opposition. Aside from issues on animal rights I don't think we are too far apart environmentally. I actually find this sort of thing quite stressful..I don't like arguing online, it's not good for my sanity, so I'm checking out. Feel free to respond and ill read it. Peace.

ganmo

Bigbooty wrote: »

Yeah,I'm aware of the demand for soy oil but Meal is not simply a byproduct, its extremely lucrative in of itself. I'm sure you're aware of this. The global market for soy meal is well about 250 million tonnes while soy oil is around 55. The value of soy Meal around 300-400 dollars a ton while soy oil is 700-800. The big drivers for new soy are in poultry and pig farming particularly in china. My sources are from websites relating to soybean industry, agriculture sustainability organisations and the FDA. I don't really need to use vegan websites for facts as the farming sector provides freely available statistics.

And as per the other poster mentioning palm oil. You'll find a lot of hatred for palm oil in the vegan community groups. I don't personally eat it or a lot of overly processed food for that matter.

Klopp represents himself. Veganism is not a cult and people are entitled to be as ridiculous as he is. He is not representative of my own views.

Perhaps it's better to find commonalities, because we've more to loose when we're in such direct opposition. Aside from issues on animal rights I don't think we are too far apart environmentally. I actually find this sort of thing quite stressful..I don't like arguing online, it's not good for my sanity, so I'm checking out. Feel free to respond and ill read it. Peace.

The inclusion of soya bean meal in diets is constantly under review. It is expensive but it is 48% protein so when compared to other high protein ingredients it is cost effective. Most other protein sources are able to be eaten by humans(soya bean meal isnt) which makes them expensive.

gozunda

Bigbooty wrote: »

Yeah,I'm aware of the demand for soy oil but Meal is not simply a byproduct, its extremely lucrative in of itself. I'm sure you're aware of this. The global market for soy meal is well about 250 million tonnes while soy oil is around 55. The value of soy Meal around 300-400 dollars a ton while soy oil is 700-800. The big drivers for new soy are in poultry and pig farming particularly in china. My sources are from websites relating to soybean industry, agriculture sustainability organisations and the FDA. I don't really need to use vegan websites for facts as the farming sector provides freely available statistics. And as per the other poster mentioning palm oil. You'll find a lot of hatred for palm oil in the vegan community groups. I don't personally eat it or a lot of overly processed food for that matter.

Klopp represents himself. Veganism is not a cult and people are entitled to be as ridiculous as he is. He is not representative of my own views.

Perhaps it's better to find commonalities, because we've more to loose when we're in such direct opposition. Aside from issues on animal rights I don't think we are too far apart environmentally. I actually find this sort of thing quite stressful..I don't like arguing online, it's not good for my sanity, so I'm checking out. Feel free to respond and ill read it. Peace.

Fair enough. Soymeal is described as a by-product - simply becsuse its what is left over after the valuable oil is extracted.

And soybeans will continue to be grown for their extremely valuable oil content - whether the likes of China stop using the meal to feed animals or otherwise. Increasingly soy by-products after the extraction soy oil are being used in industrial processes. And soy oil demand is not only surging - it is the most valuable human food oil on the commodities market.

The way information on soy production is pushed on various vegan websites is not only totaly misleading - its complete rubbish. Much like the 80% figure which is routinely quoted out of context.

Currently soy meal produced is used for various types of animal feed. Though most of that is produced outside the 'Amazon'. And yes that meal goes for cat food, dog food, horse feed, chicken feed and yes even for some cattle feed. The US is the biggest producer of soy globally and use much of it for their own domestic market. A hell of a lot of soy meal is now being used as a cheap and frankly nasty filler in highly processed foods.

Here farmers are not cramming soya meal from the 'amazon' down the throats of cattle. Ireland is lucky that cattle can graze outdoors for most of the year. And that's how it should be.

And I agree this thing of attacking others is not the way to go. However this thread remains a case in point. Unfortunately it seems to be used by some to do exactly that imo.

Not going to dwell on it. Its good to discuss things though

Thelonious Monk

The snowflakes are freaking out now over the label burger and sausage being used on veggie products. This is the IFA the same shower who have hired a tobacco PR firm to spread dubious information on their impact on the environment. Also it's outrageous that their Pravda voice the farmers journal are now the sponsors of Countrywide, I'm sure we can look forward to completely unbiased reporting now lol.
Ireland is a lost cause on environmental issues and reform of farming, it looks like CAP isnt going to change much either. I just find it hilarious that farmers feel so threatened by this forum that they have to constantly post on it. A small percentage of folks in Ireland not eating meat or dairy isnt going to affect your business when you export it all anyway.

ganmo

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The snowflakes are freaking out now over the label burger and sausage being used on veggie products. This is the IFA the same shower who have hired a tobacco PR firm to spread dubious information on their impact on the environment. Also it's outrageous that their Pravda voice the farmers journal are now the sponsors of Countrywide, I'm sure we can look forward to completely unbiased reporting now lol.
Ireland is a lost cause on environmental issues and reform of farming, it looks like CAP isnt going to change much either. I just find it hilarious that farmers feel so threatened by this forum that they have to constantly post on it. A small percentage of folks in Ireland not eating meat or dairy isnt going to affect your business when you export it all anyway.

Oh I feel some outrage in that post.
There is a lot of legislation regarding labelling of food, the new wave of meat substitutes have played it loose with their names to make it easier to market. Why should they not have their own name?
The farmers journal is a newspaper shock horror its sponsoring a radio programme. Have you ever read the journal? You only hear about it when it publishes an article about something you care about. If I remember right it has even done fashion segments.

Look at this forum...this was the only thread with any activity for 2 weeks! Look at the life we bring to here!!

Thelonious Monk

ganmo wrote: »

Oh I feel some outrage in that post.
There is a lot of legislation regarding labelling of food, the new wave of meat substitutes have played it loose with their names to make it easier to market. Why should they not have their own name?
The farmers journal is a newspaper shock horror its sponsoring a radio programme. Have you ever read the journal? You only hear about it when it publishes an article about something you care about. If I remember right it has even done fashion segments.

Look at this forum...this was the only thread with any activity for 2 weeks! Look at the life we bring to here!!

Are you ok with fish burger? swordfish steak? tuna steak?

gozunda

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The snowflakes are freaking out now over the label burger and sausage being used on veggie products. This is the IFA the same shower who have hired a tobacco PR firm to spread dubious information on their impact on the environment. Also it's outrageous that their Pravda voice the farmers journal are now the sponsors of Countrywide, I'm sure we can look forward to completely unbiased reporting now lol.
Ireland is a lost cause on environmental issues and reform of farming, it looks like CAP isnt going to change much either. I just find it hilarious that farmers feel so threatened by this forum that they have to constantly post on it. A small percentage of folks in Ireland not eating meat or dairy isnt going to affect your business when you export it all anyway.

Rflol. Thelonious and his 'Snowflakes'

Nope the only ones I see freaking out are here and yourself tbf.

Not even one mention in the farming forum so far*

As for posting Thelonious - the odd thing is there's more 'farming' related threads in this forum than anywhere else outside F&F. All created by a small number of posters who don't have a clue about agriculture and spend their time posting hate filled rants against farmers

So you're now saying others not allowed to comment on these farming related threads? Or does such freedom of expression only work for select groups?

That's nice ..

Edit: thanks for the heads up - going to post the poll so at least we just don't get the veggies voting :pac:

ganmo

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Are you ok with fish burger? swordfish steak? tuna steak?

Fish burger has always bothered me
Steak though has always been a large bit of unprocessed flesh to me so salmon steak was what I called salmon darnes(or however ya call them)

Thelonious Monk

ganmo wrote: »

Fish burger has always bothered me
Steak though has always been a large bit of unprocessed flesh to me so salmon steak was what I called salmon darnes(or however ya call them)

It really is a bit of a ridiculous thing to go to European courts about if you ask me. Surely business isn't that bad.

ganmo

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It really is a bit of a ridiculous thing to go to European courts about if you ask me. Surely business isn't that bad.

It's their regulations that govern the naming of food so that's where the discussion has to be had.
You try and make an Irish champagne

Thelonious Monk

ganmo wrote: »

It's their regulations that govern the naming of food so that's where the discussion has to be had.
You try and make an Irish champagne

well that's different, it's a region in France that produces a certain product.
I don't see why fish, chicken, a mix of pork and breadcrumbs between 2 buns is a burger, but if it doesn't contain meat it's not a burger.
My local chipper does egg burgers, is that ok?
The boffins at Cambridge say this -

meat or other food made into a round, fairly flat shape, fried and usually eaten between two halves of a bread roll:
a burger and fries
a hamburger
a veggie burger

It's just ridiculous pettiness if you ask me. But maybe farmers are worried people are choosing these things instead of meat based ones nowadays. I know I've found it very hard to find the veggie denny burgers/sausages these days, they seem to be flying off the shelves. Lots of people who still eat meat are choosing to eat these things sometimes too, to reduce their intake. Like my Mam makes dinner with quorn mince or has veggie burgers sometimes, but she also eats beef.
Maybe you should be worried! But not really, because as I said before, you export all your product anyway, a few people in Ireland being veggie isn't going to make much of a diff.

Suckler

When it comes to champagne...

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

well that's different,

When it comes to meat...

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's just ridiculous pettiness if you ask me.

Highlights the ridiculous gymnastics your argument is making.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

But not really, because as I said before, you export all your product anyway,

Don't let the lack of knowledge stop you. Type away sure.

gozunda

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

well that's different, it's a region in France that produces a certain product.
I don't see why fish, chicken, a mix of pork and breadcrumbs between 2 buns is a burger, but if it doesn't contain meat it's not a burger.
My local chipper does egg burgers, is that ok?
The boffins at Cambridge say this -

It's just ridiculous pettiness if you ask me. But maybe farmers are worried people are choosing these things instead of meat based ones nowadays. I know I've found it very hard to find the veggie denny burgers/sausages these days, they seem to be flying off the shelves. Lots of people who still eat meat are choosing to eat these things sometimes too, to reduce their intake. Like my Mam makes dinner with quorn mince or has veggie burgers sometimes, but she also eats beef. Maybe you should be worried! But not really, because as I said before, you export all your product anyway, a few people in Ireland being veggie isn't going to make much of a diff.

Thelonious what are you on about? That's certainly the oddest post I've seen to date

The proposals have been put forward by the EU parliament’s agriculture committee

The EU motion on the naming of agricultural produce is simply a proposal for defining regulations of the European Parliament and of the Council .

The current proposal seeks to amend various existing regulations on naming within quality schemes for agricultural products and foodstuffs.

How exactly do you think the EU is being "petty"? It's just motion of many. And here you're you making some big conspiracy out of it?

The only ones screaming about it here are generally anti agriculture as far as I can see. I certainly don't see any 'worried' farmers loosing their ****e tbf.

It's not like anyone is slapping whatever veggie product you like to eat out of your hands or anything. You'll still be able to buy them no matter what they are called.

The IFA are absolutely entitled to make their opinion known much as other EU farming organisations have done.

And no - not "all" agricultural produce is exported. Where did you get that bizarrre idea? Unless you are suggesting we shouldn't produce and export anything in this country. Do you want us to go back to the stoneage or something?

Thelonious Monk

Suckler wrote: »

When it comes to champagne...

It's completely different. If there was a type of beef from a certain Irish breed of cow in say Leitrim, that ate particular grass or something, then I'd understand you wanted to make it sovereign to that region. That's how it is with champagne, and feta, and halloumi etc.
But burger can mean loads of different things, and isn't solely to be used with beef.

I don't really see the point in these discussions between vegetarians and farmers any more anyway. You guys are terrified you'll lose some money, and vegan/veg are mostly concerned with environmental issues and cruelty.
There is no way anything will ever be agreed on. You'll continue to provide alternative facts till the cows come home.
You have politicians in your back pocket and nearly the whole island is devoted to beef and dairy farming, I don't think you need to be worrying about a few quinoa burgers.

And yes isn't it 90% of beef and dairy produced in Ireland is exported? That's what I mean when I say a few veggie burgers in Ireland hardly makes a difference.

gozunda

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's completely different. If there was a type of beef from a certain Irish breed of cow in say Leitrim, that ate particular grass or something, then I'd understand you wanted to make it sovereign to that region. That's how it is with champagne, and feta, and halloumi etc.
But burger can mean loads of different things, and isn't solely to be used with beef. I don't really see the point in these discussions between vegetarians and farmers any more anyway. You guys are terrified you'll lose some money, and vegan/veg are mostly concerned with environmental issues and cruelty.
There is no way anything will ever be agreed on. You'll continue to provide alternative facts till the cows come home. You have politicians in your back pocket and nearly the whole island is devoted to beef and dairy farming, I don't think you need to be worrying about a few quinoa burgers. And yes isn't it 90% of beef and dairy produced in Ireland is exported? That's what I mean when I say a few veggie burgers in Ireland hardly makes a difference.

I think you are still confused Thelonious. The proposals have been put forward by the EU parliament’s agriculture Committee. There's no big conspiracy you know.

If you are concerned get on to your local MEP

The general point of such discussions is an exchange of ideas and even sometimes to highlight factual inaccuracies. As exemplified above.

You guys are terrified you'll lose some money, and vegan/veg are mostly concerned with environmental issues and cruelty.

Incorrect. Farmers here are not 'worried' about this or any other bs emotion you'd like to project. And yes farmers are absolutely concerned about environmental issues. And yes 'cruelty' is illegal. You really need to learn a bit about agriculture and drop your nearly daily attacks on farmers and rural areas.

I dunno but its nearly like such comments are being paid for by the green party or something. If I was them I'd be looking for a refund tbf.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It really is a bit of a ridiculous thing to go to European courts about if you ask me. ..

This comment by itself shows how truely misinformed your comments are.

The current proposals have been put forward by the EU parliament’s agriculture committee.

As said if you are concerned contact your local MEP.

ganmo

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's completely different. If there was a type of beef from a certain Irish breed of cow in say Leitrim, that ate particular grass or something, then I'd understand you wanted to make it sovereign to that region. That's how it is with champagne, and feta, and halloumi etc.
But burger can mean loads of different things, and isn't solely to be used with beef.

I don't really see the point in these discussions between vegetarians and farmers any more anyway. You guys are terrified you'll lose some money, and vegan/veg are mostly concerned with environmental issues and cruelty.
There is no way anything will ever be agreed on. You'll continue to provide alternative facts till the cows come home.
You have politicians in your back pocket and nearly the whole island is devoted to beef and dairy farming, I don't think you need to be worrying about a few quinoa burgers.

And yes isn't it 90% of beef and dairy produced in Ireland is exported? That's what I mean when I say a few veggie burgers in Ireland hardly makes a difference.

During the usa - eu trade deal negotiations the us tried to get the protection of product names done away with to allow them to export champagne or feta to us

So you’re saying that the Irish farmers are financially supported, to the hilt, by the Irish tax payer and then most of that product is sent overseas ?

So if most of the Irish product is going overseas does that mean the Irish tax payer is eating imported meats ?

Think I’m going to have to pay for a proper exported/imported report.

Get a graph going for the Irish tax payer to see where their financial support is going, which countries overseas, and where their food actually comes from, again which countries its imported from.

I think it’s only fair this con job is shown up for what it is. I doubt your average Irish punter is aware of it.