Mamecab Lightgun Advice

Myrddin

After copius amounts of Gamesmaster, the little fella has blistered me enough to want to add light gun functionality to my cab for stuff like Mad Dog Mcree etc etc (Daphne type stuff).

So's, advice on usb light guns, best place to get, price range, what's good/bad would be greatly appreciated

MontgomeryClift

I'd suggest a Happ gun and one of these - http://www.nanotechent.com/opti-gun.php - but look at the price.

Myrddin

Cheers, but it looks like overkill for what I need. That has force feedback, digital counters etc...and is an actual interface for real arcade guns by the looks of it. I was thinking something much more basic, a simple usb light gun for mame if they exist? Or maybe if they do they're more trouble than they're worth?

horgan_p

Well as long as the lightgun is mapped as a mouse in mame , which IIRC it is , then use a wii controller like those do it yourself interactive whiteboards.

Myrddin

horgan_p wrote: »

Well as long as the lightgun is mapped as a mouse in mame , which IIRC it is , then use a wii controller like those do it yourself interactive whiteboards.

A Wii controller? Explain :o

horgan_p

I did some consultancy work for a school a while back , who had a wii controller hooked up to a pc , and a pen with an infra red led (i think it was infra red anyway). It allowed the teacher to interact with the pc using the pen as if it were a mouse. The pen even had "left and right click".
I remember from playing operation wolf on mame that it used the mouse - through the use of a command line switch i think.

Therefore you could mount a wii controller on the top of your cab , mount the led in a "gun" and away you go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s5EvhHy7eQ

Its been thought of already apparently

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nccbSpJ9Ozc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYYOQI4Ctlw

Myrddin

Looks interesting, & great initiative too! However my cab's screen has it's bezel around it meaning there's nowhere around the screen I could mount something like that (I guess I could make a small hole in it but I'd rather not).

Hmm, the search continues.

purplec

wii remote
bluetooth usb dongle
battery powered ir bar
blue soleil software
model 2 Emu
House of the Dead & VCOP

savage

mame stuff is a lot harder to setup

Myrddin

purplec wrote: »

wii remote
bluetooth usb dongle
battery powered ir bar
blue soleil software
model 2 Emu
House of the Dead & VCOP

savage

mame stuff is a lot harder to setup

Agreed, that's kinda the thing I'm after. However I don't want to alter the aesthetics of the cab for sensor bars etc. I was after a basic usb lightgun, that works that way light guns of old work (through crt goodness)...do these even exist??

The battery powered ir bar would also be a pain if behind a bezel & perspex, as is my screen.

deadl0ck

What about the Act Labs guns : Clicky Linky

Myrddin

deadl0ck wrote: »

What about the Act Labs guns : Clicky Linky

Def getting closer, & it does say it uses crt. But does it work with low-res arcade crt's? The vga box thing is confusing me, where does that sit between a vga connection & a jpac

Retr0gamer

The only problem with that set up is accuracy. You'll find most games very hard to play/impossible in the later stages if you can't aim down the sights. It's grand for stuff like Gunblade but for maddog mccree, lethal enforcers or time crisis you are screwed unless there's a way of claibrating the aiming prefectly. If you've got a cursor on the screen as well then the game is pretty much pointless.

robfowler78

You could try the ems topgun 2 light gun. Works with lcds and projectors. I have the old version works well has two sensor bars that are usb and a gun. Can be a nightmare to get setup but one its done its very accurate try googling it.

Myrddin

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The only problem with that set up is accuracy. You'll find most games very hard to play/impossible in the later stages if you can't aim down the sights. It's grand for stuff like Gunblade but for maddog mccree, lethal enforcers or time crisis you are screwed unless there's a way of claibrating the aiming prefectly. If you've got a cursor on the screen as well then the game is pretty much pointless.

Which method is this? The Wii controller/led method? Where does the cursor come from?

robfowler78 wrote: »

You could try the ems topgun 2 light gun. Works with lcds and projectors.

I've an arcade machine though, & specifically want a gun that targets through crt & I'd rather not have a sensor bar hanging somewhere near the scren. Appreciate the input though folks, I thought this would be easy

Retr0gamer

You used to be able to get PC lightguns that worked with monitors but they would probably be extremely rare now.

I was talking about the Wiimote method. If you are using it like that unless you can calibrate it it's going to be way off. It will be fine for a messing around with but you won't be able to play any of the games properly really. If it's acting like a mouse I presume there'll be a cursor on the screen which will make any of the games without cursors an absolute breeze and not really worth playing without the challenge. It would be fine however for games like lucky and wild, Terminator 2 or gunblade.

EMS topgun 2 might be the way to go. You get a lot more accuracy with the 2 sensor bars, it might be easier to find and if you go the wiimote way you'll still have a wiimote as a sensor bar anyway.

Those actlab guns look like they would be suitable. I'd say they willwork with an arcade monitor as well. The way those light guns work is that they use the way the TV rasters an imageline by line with the electron beam. A CRT and arcade monitor do that while LCDs and plasmas don't so it should be ok.

Myrddin

Retr0gamer wrote: »

You used to be able to get PC lightguns that worked with monitors but they would probably be extremely rare now.

I was talking about the Wiimote method. If you are using it like that unless you can calibrate it it's going to be way off. It will be fine for a messing around with but you won't be able to play any of the games properly really. If it's acting like a mouse I presume there'll be a cursor on the screen which will make any of the games without cursors an absolute breeze and not really worth playing without the challenge. It would be fine however for games like lucky and wild, Terminator 2 or gunblade.

EMS topgun 2 might be the way to go. You get a lot more accuracy with the 2 sensor bars, it might be easier to find and if you go the wiimote way you'll still have a wiimote as a sensor bar anyway.

Those actlab guns look like they would be suitable. I'd say they willwork with an arcade monitor as well. The way those light guns work is that they use the way the TV rasters an imageline by line with the electron beam. A CRT and arcade monitor do that while LCDs and plasmas don't so it should be ok.

Mame uses lightguns I think as a mouse, & I'm almost certain the cursor can be switched off. Not 100% on it though. Gonna look into it, has to be a way of getting a simple crt lightgun running on a pc.

Retr0gamer

EnterNow wrote: »

Mame uses lightguns I think as a mouse, & I'm almost certain the cursor can be switched off. Not 100% on it though. Gonna look into it, has to be a way of getting a simple crt lightgun running on a pc.

You'll have even more trouble calibrating the Wiimote then if it's mouse based. Could be a bigger hassle. If you check the link out for those act lab guns there's a tutorial on how to get them working.

One thing to note is that some lightgun games operate differently to others. Games like virtua cop, time crisis, lethal enforcers all work with lightguns. Stuff with the big mounted weapons like operation wolf, terminator 2, Revoltion X etc. aren't actually lightgun games, you are moving a cursor around the screen with the motion of the gun, basically the gun is attached to a trackball like system giving the illusion you are aiming and for these games a mouse based system would be best and CRT raster based lightguns will not work with these games.

Myrddin

Retr0gamer wrote: »

You'll have even more trouble calibrating the Wiimote then if it's mouse based. Could be a bigger hassle. If you check the link out for those act lab guns there's a tutorial on how to get them working.

One thing to note is that some lightgun games operate differently to others. Games like virtua cop, time crisis, lethal enforcers all work with lightguns. Stuff with the big mounted weapons like operation wolf, terminator 2, Revoltion X etc. aren't actually lightgun games, you are moving a cursor around the screen with the motion of the gun, basically the gun is attached to a trackball like system giving the illusion you are aiming and for these games a mouse based system would be best and CRT raster based lightguns will not work with these games.

Yeah but that can be sorted in each games configuration file. It's all doable, I just don't a sensor bar.

Retr0gamer

For the mouse driven ones a sensor bar might be the only way.

o1s1n

You could always, I dunno, get a JAMMA light gun and some JAMMA pcbs...

/runs away.

Retr0gamer

I think having some discrete sensor bars would be better than a Wiimote in the cab although it depends on how the cab is built. The sensor bars are just rows of infrared LEDS anyway. Just put postion some infrared LEDS on the side and top of the monitor and the gun will pick them up instead of using sensor bars. You could hide them behind the same black plastic that the wiimote uses or remote controls that lets infrared light through. just have to position the LEDS at roughly the same spacing as in the original sensor bars.

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

You could always, I dunno, get a JAMMA light gun and some JAMMA pcbs...

/runs away.

Oh yeah never thought of that...heads off to buy a Mad Dog Mcree pcb, some Virtua Cop pcb's, Area 51 pcb's and all other goodness. Realises the lack of money, the lack of availbility, & the need for loads of different proprietary guns....yeah keep running troll :p

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I think having some discrete sensor bars would be better than a Wiimote in the cab although it depends on how the cab is built. The sensor bars are just rows of infrared LEDS anyway. Just put postion some infrared LEDS on the side and top of the monitor and the gun will pick them up instead of using sensor bars. You could hide them behind the same black plastic that the wiimote uses or remote controls that lets infrared light through. just have to position the LEDS at roughly the same spacing as in the original sensor bars.

I'm not putting a Wii thing in my cab are you nuts The monitor bezel covers all the screen edges top sides & bottom. I I were using a bar, I'd have to make holes in the bezel

Retr0gamer

I heard candles work as well. It will give you an atmospheric glow while you test the ignition temperature of MDF.

Myrddin

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I heard candles work as well. It will give you an atmospheric glow while you test the ignition temperature of MDF.

Is that what yo do when your sacrificing yourself to the N64 gods?

sirodesto

Hello this is my first posting, so hello everyone. Let me first start off by explaining how the wii remote works and what the previous poster suggested.

First the Wii remote at it's tip has a camera that can only see IR light, (light at a spectrum beyond human detection). It uses the light from the sensor bar ( a very bad name for it, it really should be called a dual IR light bar, but i guess that doesn't sound as cool as sensor bar). It tracks the movement of the wiimote by the position of the two IR lights as you move the remote around.

second If you were to put a wii remote and mount it on the arcade machine it would not work properly. The wii remote will see where the light is at but not the location it is pointing. You would have to move the gun as if it were a pen (imagine a gun that could only point 90 degrees and moved on a rail. In order to get the fun in the right spot you would have to move it up and to the right instead of just changing the angle.

Third Current light guns now use one of two tech, one uses IR light bars in order to determine where the gun is pointing (using a built in camera that can see IR light, Sound familiar?) second one uses a special adapter that interfaces with the monitor and gun (required for each gun bye the way) and a gun that has a color camera synced with the refresh rate of your LCD monitor (for use with none CRT monitors) due to the limitation of the LCD monitor refresh rate always being 60 Hz.

fourth there are light guns that work with crt arcade monitors but they have to support (depending on the game) certain refresh rate and not all games use light guns anyway like what was mentioned above.

OK long story short if you were going to use a Wii remote you would use the Wii remote as the gun and put the IR sensor lights in the Bezel around your monitor. It really doesn't matter the spacing just as long as the wii remote camera can see both light dots. The holes would be small and you would not see any light. You could also cover the hole with dark clear plastic. If you ask me it sounds like the choice you should make. Unless you are willing to fork over the money for a light gun or light gun with sync card or wiimote as gun and two IR lights mounted somewhere in the bezel. Of course you are getting advice from a tech guy with no arcade machine, if anyone knows anything better let me know!

sirodesto

http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-1i-49-en-70-2vss.html
link to gun that uses tech like Wii remote

http://www.arcadeguns.com/
another link to gun that uses Tech like Wii remote

http://www.act-labs.com/products/gun1.htm
link to gun that uses sync board in order to use with certain games and LCD monitors.

let me know it this helps.

Myrddin

Hi, welcome to the forum! Great info above re the Wii remote cheers. I've no intention of using one though, for a few reasons. I don't want to alter (make holes) in the bezel for the screen, & I don't want to be changing batteries in things inside the cab etc etc.

What I'm looking for is a simple, usb light gun for crt montors. Everything will be 15Khz like most standard cab's are, so whatever you can suggest is appreciated. I'm not sure how the higher refresh rate games work through Mame & Soft15Khz, for example everything from Operation Wolf (I know it'snot a light gun input) to Area 51 will play in my cab and both are completely different refresh rates I would imagine?

o1s1n

A while ago I came across lightguns to use in a cab with the Dreamcast to JAMMA adapter.

http://cgi.ebay.fr/DREAMCAST-GUN-MODIFIED-FOR-USE-WITH-DC-TO-JAMMA-SYSTEM-/380282028167?pt=UK_Video_Games_Coin_Operated_MJ&hash=item588a934087

Which must mean that somehow it's been adapted to work with a low res monitor?

o1s1n

Further to that, I picked up a Dreamcast to USB adapter..which lets me use a Dreamcast stick with the PC.

I wonder would it be possible to somehow use with that lightgun?

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

Further to that, I picked up a Dreamcast to USB adapter..which lets me use a Dreamcast stick with the PC.

I wonder would it be possible to somehow use with that lightgun?

Ooh interesting. If someone wrote drivers for it, or it's recognised as a generic light gun interface by Windows then it'll basically work.

Andrew76

Hey EnterNow, I know I mentioned the Guncon2 as a possibility since it has a USB connection so did a bit of googling about connecting it to a pc and found this site http://xoomer.virgilio.it/guncon2/. Seems pretty old but if you check out the Documents link at the top, it has some info in there that might be useful? The wiring section mentions a few ways to connect it for use with an Arcade monitor, plenty of diagrams in there that probably make sense to you. Driver section too.
Not sure if it's the full solution but might be something of use in there.

Myrddin

Andrew76 wrote: »

Hey EnterNow, I know I mentioned the Guncon2 as a possibility since it has a USB connection so did a bit of googling about connecting it to a pc and found this site http://xoomer.virgilio.it/guncon2/. Seems pretty old but if you check out the Documents link at the top, it has some info in there that might be useful? The wiring section mentions a few ways to connect it for use with an Arcade monitor, plenty of diagrams in there that probably make sense to you. Driver section too.
Not sure if it's the full solution but might be something of use in there.

Andrew that's it, that's actually it really. Looking at the wiring diagrams, a small circuit has to be built with a vga connection on it which is confusing me...doe sthe GCON2 have a vga type connector as well as usb??

Andrew76

EnterNow wrote: »

Andrew that's it, that's actually it really. Looking at the wiring diagrams, a small circuit has to be built with a vga connection on it which is confusing me...doe sthe GCON2 have a vga type connector as well as usb??

Nah it's an RCA connection to go into the tv. Mine is packed away in a box somewhere atm but he mentions it has a t-shaped RCA connection which could be connected to a jpac or jamma finger board?

CiDeRmAn

I still think that, if using a pc/mame arrangement, just use a wii remote, one of the wii gun sleeve thingys, and one of the drivers out there for the Wii remote, allows it to work as a mouse pointer and therefore can be configured into Mame as a perfect, accurate gun replacement.
Just use a little paint or what have you to disguise it's Ninty origins and away you go!

Andrew76

Not sure if you've already seen this youtube vid but this chap is using a Guncon2 on his mame cab (just watch the first few seconds):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOEmXNCHh78

Lookin in the details it says using Guncon2 with aimtrak modules, googling them leads you back to Ultimarc! $44 for the kit required.

Tons of info here http://www.ultimarc.com/aimtrak.html and a pdf.

The Ultimarc AimTrak Light Gun Module is a tiny PCB containing a camera and tracking logic which can be mounted inside any available gaming gun body including arcade guns and console guns such as Guncon. Some DIY assembly and creativity is needed for the PCB mounting.
The gun trigger switch is wired to a connector on the PCB.

Myrddin

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I still think that, if using a pc/mame arrangement, just use a wii remote, one of the wii gun sleeve thingys, and one of the drivers out there for the Wii remote, allows it to work as a mouse pointer and therefore can be configured into Mame as a perfect, accurate gun replacement.
Just use a little paint or what have you to disguise it's Ninty origins and away you go!

It has to 'feel' arcadey though, & holding a Wii remote is about as arcadey as playing Virtua cop with an empty water pistol.

Andrew76 wrote: »

Not sure if you've already seen this youtube vid but this chap is using a Guncon2 on his mame cab (just watch the first few seconds):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOEmXNCHh78

Lookin in the details it says using Guncon2 with aimtrak modules, googling them leads you back to Ultimarc! $44 for the kit required.

Tons of info here http://www.ultimarc.com/aimtrak.html and a pdf.

The ultimate solution, from ultimarc. Cracking stuff, that'll be the way I go when I do it. The ultimarc setup inside an existing light gun :cool: thanks a mill dude. Case closed.

CiDeRmAn

That is a lovely, elegant solution, and would mean you could have a dream cab right there.
Nice one!

He's not really using a Guncon 2 though, essentially its a stripped out Guncon2 casing with the contents of a, oh yes, the functional parts of a Wii remote inside!!!
Ha!!
Still, if I ever get my dream upright Mame cab this thingy will be going right in there, Virtua Cop 2 is gaming goodness distilled...

o1s1n

I always thought it would be cool to strip the innards out of a lightgun and mount them into an airsoft replica. It wouldn't be very difficult to do. The only part you might have a problem with would be sorting out the trigger.

Playing Crisis Zone on the ps2 with a Guncon just feels wrong.. needs at least a sub machine gun.

A couple of MP5s strapped to either side of a MAME cab would look pretty damn slick!

Retr0gamer

Airsoft rifle with a lightgun. How boring.

There's only one lightgun I want:



That or those awesome Point Blank guns with recoil.

o1s1n

I was actually going to suggest spraying the airsoft guns blue and pink for the craic

Nothing feels as badass as blowing bad guys away with a pink gun.

CiDeRmAn

If you could pick up one of the 3rd party guns for the PS1, several of those had recoil built in.
Here is a perfect gun...
LCDTopGun

Retr0gamer

They did have recoil built in but they couldn't compare to the namco arcade ones.

o1s1n

You'd be suprised, I have a 3rd party ps1 light gun with a recoil that would take the face off you if you weren't careful.

It's so snappy and loud that I can't use it as you can hear it in other rooms.

o1s1n

Here's a review of the one I'm on about -

http://www.psillustrated.com/psillustrated/hard_rev.php/94/p99k-light-blaster-gun-playstation.html

Check out the section about the recoil -

But then you get to the recoil action. While it's cool, it's also very loud, and downright dangerous. The makers of the gun didn't put a plastic cap at the end of the gun where the recoil occurs, so there are some quite sharp plastic edges that jut out every time you fire. I almost cut my finger once, and damn near poked my eye out when I was lining a shot up in Point Blank. Legislation aside, kids are going to want to play with these guns and play with the recoil function on (cause it's 'cool'), and they can get hurt with it. This is a Bad Thing.