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Brilliant pics..Pity about the news!!

  • 27-02-2011 6:24pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,080 ✭✭✭✭


    Found this today in the Mail on Sunday..Great pics,but will do the Golden Eagles no favours over here,as it does show them doing what they do naturally.Ignore the sensationalistic wording of the article,it is otherwise readable.:)




    logo_mol.gif



    Swooping assassin: Pictured for the first time in Britain, a soaring golden eagle clutches a bloodied lamb in its razor-sharp talons - confirming farmers' worst fears for their flocks



    By David Boffey And Jane Simpson
    Last updated at 1:48 PM on 27th February 2011

    Swooping low over a mountainside, this magnificent but deadly golden eagle clutches a bloodied lamb in its talons.

    This dramatic picture provides the first photographic evidence that the powerful birds of prey have been snatching livestock from British farmers’ flocks.

    It was taken on the Isle of Mull, off the West coast of Scotland, where shepherds have long campaigned against the reintroduction of eagles which they see as a threat to their livelihoods.

    article-1361000-0D5D039E000005DC-275_634x689.jpg Death from above: The golden eagle snatched the lamb on the Isle of Mull. This dramatic picture provides evidence that the powerful birds of prey have been snatching live-stock from farmers

    Conservationists – who have not seen such direct evidence as this before – say the birds target only dead or weak animals. It is unclear whether the lamb was still alive in this photograph.

    It was taken by a bird-watcher who does not want to be named as he fears that could identify the location of the eagles’ nests, and put the birds at risk from angry hill farmers.

    He said: ‘I was visiting Mull with my wife and really wanted to see a golden eagle. I asked around and was directed to an area near Ben More.

    8FT KILLING MACHINES THAT FLY AT 100MPH

    • A golden eagle has a wingspan of up to 8ft. Its body is up to 40in long,it weights up to 13lb and it can fly at 100mph.
      <LI style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">They mate for life and can live for 30 years.
      victorians hunted them to extinction in the UK but in 1975 they were reintroduced to Scotland from Norway. There are 30 breeding pairs.
      <LI style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">A £900,000 plan to reintroduce them to England, and along the Suffolk coast, was scrapped last year in the Coalitions cuts.
      <LI style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Special protection areas in Scotland were designated last year after evidence that farmers were poisoning eagles. These cover 850,000 acres of North and West Scotland and include Glen Etive, Glen Fyne and the Cairngorms Massif
      <LI style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Hunters in Kazakhstand use tame golden eagles to catch foxes. The liver of the fox is given to the eagle as a reward.
      <LI style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">The eagles kill large prey by dropping it from a great height. Tortoises are dropped on to rocks to crack their shells.
    • A lamb was seen headbutting a golden eagle who was trying to grab it, according to the Outer Hebrides bird report of 2009.

    ‘There were a few other cars parked close by and some eagles circling, possibly by an eyrie.

    Suddenly this massive eagle swooped into view. We could see it was carrying something beneath it and my wife, who had binoculars, thought it was a white mountain hare.

    ‘As it got closer, I said to her, “That’s no hare, it’s a lamb”. It was a very unusual sight and a bit sad for the lamb but it’s nature, and that’s what happens. It’s certainly a sight that neither of us will forget.’

    The lamb is likely to have been snatched from the 1,700-strong flock of Donald MacLean, who farms 10,000 acres on the island.

    He said: ‘This is a hugely significant photograph, catching the eagle in the act. It proves eagles are
    terrain is uncompromising and there are all sorts of reasons why we lose lambs. But they are white and easy to spot for the eagles.

    ‘On one occasion, two eagles were trying to take a lamb from its mother and were struggling. A third eagle came in to distract the ewe and one of the others got the lamb. They don’t show much mercy.’

    Jonnie Hall, head of rural policy at the National Farmers Union for Scotland, said: ‘It is an unequivocal fact that eagles do take live lambs. This is a major concern for hill farmers in western Scotland.’

    Golden eagles are native to Scotland. However, farmers are more concerned by the reintroduction of the only bigger British bird, the white-tailed eagle.

    It became extinct in Britain in the early 19th Century but is being returned to the wild along Scotland’s East and West coasts.carrying off lambs, evidence that farmers need to make their point.’

    Mr MacLean is unable to put a figure on how many animals a year he loses to eagles – although crofters in nearby Wester Ross have said that up to 200 lambs a season are killed by eagles.

    Mr MacLean said: ‘The terrain is uncompromising and there are all sorts of reasons why we lose lambs. But they are white and easy to spot for the eagles.

    article-1361000-0D5D03E5000005DC-349_634x593.jpg Swoop: The eagles have even been seen working in a pack to distract a ewe with a lamb



    ‘On one occasion, two eagles were trying to take a lamb from its mother and were struggling. A third eagle came in to distract the ewe and one of the others got the lamb. They don’t show much mercy.’


    Jonnie Hall, head of rural policy at the National Farmers Union for Scotland, said: ‘It is an unequivocal fact that eagles do take live lambs.

    This is a major concern for hill farmers in western Scotland.’ Golden eagles are native to Scotland.

    However, farmers are more concerned by the reintroduction of the only bigger British bird, the white-tailed eagle.

    It became extinct in Britain in the early 19th Century but is being returned to the wild along Scotland’s East and West coasts.








    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1361000/Golden-eagle-clutches-bloodied-lamb-razor-sharp-talons.html#ixzz1FBGm1Re6

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Truly tragic that they're being persecuted. There needs to be an acknowledgement of the cost to farmers in order to prevent any damage done. Saw one of the white tailed sea eagles in Kerry some time back and it was spectacular. A sight like that enhances any morning's stalking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭garv123


    whats the numbers like in of these eagles in the uk? cant imagine it been very high? would be ashame to see them cullled over evidence like this


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    Moving this to N&BW as it's off topic for Hunting.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Feargal as Luimneach


    The Daily Mail are well known for their sensationalist ramblings.:mad:

    True Golden Eagles feed on lambs, DEAD/DYING ones. Was the Eagle seen killing the lambs. I doubt it

    Now the factual inaccuracies:
    They mate for life and can live for 30 years.
    victorians hunted them to extinction in the UK but in 1975 they were reintroduced to Scotland from Norway. There are 30 breeding pairs
    The Sea Eagles were re-introduced from Norway not the Golden Eagles.
    A £900,000 plan to reintroduce them to England, and along the Suffolk coast, was scrapped last year in the Coalitions cuts.
    They tried to re-introduce Sea Eagles to Norfolk, not Golden Eagles.

    Jaysus they can't get even they basics correct. They will print any rubbish true or not for a "story".

    <Mod note- off topic content removed>


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Given the commercial value of lambs I would have thought the benefits to tourism alone would far outweigh the cost of any losses to farmers. Anyway was the lamb dead or injured when picked up? If the eagles are actually causing any losses to farmers surely a compensation package could be arrived at rather than a sensationalist, tabloid reaction? :rolleyes:

    http://www.meattradenewsdaily.co.uk/news/210610/ireland___lamb_prices_will_backfire_.aspx


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,080 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    The Daily Mail are well known for their sensationalist ramblings.:mad:

    True Golden Eagles feed on lambs, DEAD/DYING ones. Was the Eagle seen killing the lambs. I doubt it

    Now the factual inaccuracies:

    The Sea Eagles were re-introduced from Norway not the Golden Eagles.


    They tried to re-introduce Sea Eagles to Norfolk, not Golden Eagles.

    Jaysus they can't get even they basics correct. They will print any rubbish true or not for a "story".

    <Mod note- off topic content removed>


    ~WEll Fergul .I'll tell you why I posted this !!!:rolleyes:

    If you took the time to read my prolouge,I said it was sensationalist article and I posted it because
    [1] it was to warn you and others concerned that this will be proably be used against the eagle programme and [2]because it is a fantastic picture of the eagle doing what it and its kind have been doing since time immemorial.Hunting and culling weak or healthy lambs.
    and [3] there have only been THREE threads on this in the last 12 months in the shooting section of boards!!!
    As for the details of who why or what...Well tell somone who wrote it!! Like maybe the Mail on Sunday???:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Sorry I botherd.Keep the good ol Irish tradition of shooting the messanger,and ignoring the message alive .:mad:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    ~WEll Fergul .I'll tell you why I posted this !!!:rolleyes:

    If you took the time to read my prolouge,I said it was sensationalist article and I posted it because
    [1] it was to warn you and others concerned that this will be proably be used against the eagle programme and [2]because it is a fantastic picture of the eagle doing what it and its kind have been doing since time immemorial.Hunting and culling weak or healthy lambs.
    and [3] there have only been THREE threads on this in the last 12 months in the shooting section of boards!!!
    As for the details of who why or what...Well tell somone who wrote it!! Like maybe the Mail on Sunday???:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Sorry I botherd.Keep the good ol Irish tradition of shooting the messanger,and ignoring the message alive .:mad:

    I note you posted it on the Hunting forum. Really, speading this nonsense is helping nobody. I'm not shooting the messanger but asking him what he thought he would achieve by posting this drivel on the Hunting or any other forum. Even above you continue the warped view that Golden Eagles kill healthy lambs. Where did you get the proof for that statement?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,249 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Sorry I botherd.Keep the good ol Irish tradition of shooting the messanger,and ignoring the message alive .:mad:
    it seems to me that he was agreeing with you? he was criticising the article, not your post.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,832 ✭✭✭littlebug


    Before this gets out of hand....

    This news item has been on other various fora on the internet today. I was surprised it took so long to reach here. As Grizzly said don't shoot the messenger.... someone was going to mention it sooner or later.

    Also.... some text of the original reply has been removed as it was indeed reading as shooting the messenger, so to speak.

    We, in this forum, can't avoid the fact that this news item has been published and may well have a wider negative impact on the Irish Eagle programme. However if this can't be discussed in a civil manner then the thread will be locked.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    One does need to take into account the source.....and I consider the mail to be a rag of the lowest order and well known for sensationalist items. I'm long enough in the tooth to know not to believe everything I read.

    But taking the item at face value I tried to find info online with regard to Golden eagles and lambs. Not very much.
    I found this piece on diet
    This article mentions
    Yes, some Golden Eagles will kill the odd lamb; there is no point in continually denying this fact. However, there is evidence to suggest that when this does happen, the lambs that are taken are weaklings from poorly managed stock
    I advise reading the whole article so my quote is not taken out of context.

    On the flip side, another article in the Belfast Telegraph
    Golden eagles are proving to be the best friends of the sheep farmers who once feared their reintroduction.

    Farmers in Co Donegal, where the eagles are finally flying wild, have noticed a decline in the number of attacks by local hooded grey crows on newborn lambs.

    The arrival of the golden eagles, after an absence of more than 100 years, has scared off the huge number of grey crows, a known local scourge as they attack young lambs, according to a new report by the Golden Eagle Trust.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    [QUOTE=Grizzly 45;70903982.Hunting and culling weak or healthy lambs.
    and [3] there have only been THREE threads on this in the last 12 months in the shooting section of boards!!!
    As for the details of who why or what...Well tell somone who wrote it!! Like maybe the Mail on Sunday???:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Sorry I botherd.Keep the good ol Irish tradition of shooting the messanger,and ignoring the message alive .:mad:[/QUOTE]

    But whats the message Grizzly?? - what does this photo(assuming it wasn't photoshopped) prove. We know eagles feed on dead sheep/lambs so this eagle could simply be carrying some carrion. There have been a number of sensationalist articles in the "Tory" press recently blaming raptors for wiping out everything from Sparrows to Songbirds - always without any science to back it up. What we do know is that in both this country and Scotland large numbers of eagles and other protected raptors are being wiped out by deliberate poisoning and shooting - and the problem is getting worse going on the figures from 2010 both here and UK(in the latter case I regret to say that most of these birds are found on the vast shooting estates of Scotland and Northern England that are typically run by weathy Tory supporting peers).

    Indeed much of this "story" does not stack up - firstly are their many lambs of this age present in this part of Scotland so early in the year??

    Secondly the chap who took the photo claims to be a birdwatcher and is "worried that hill farmers will target the birds" which begs the question as to why he went out of his way to sell the photos to one of the pillars of the Tory press and their well known view on raptor issues!!



    Finally I have no doubt that this "photo" will directly lead to more endangered eagles dieing agonising deaths on West of Ireland mountainsides this spring since there is a good chance this story will rear its ugly head over here in the likes of the O'Reilly press and probably the IFJ with similiar spin and BS to justify hysteria against both eagle projects:(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    I noted that the article also attempted to stir up feelings against the WTSE project in Scotland too. Of course the scientific study below proves what rubbish that is too:mad:

    http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/news/research-clears-sea-eagles-from-lamb-deaths/001666/

    Only 2% of lamb deaths could be attributed to the eagles - so out of every 50 lambs lost only 1 is likely to be due to an eagle, case closed I'd say:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10 frostfrosty


    Theres no evidence in this picture that the eagle killed this lamb. Eagles often prey on dead animals. Certain people in Scotland want an excuse to kill eagles.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    Birdnuts wrote: »

    http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/news/research-clears-sea-eagles-from-lamb-deaths/001666/

    Only 2% of lamb deaths could be attributed to the eagles - so out of every 50 lambs lost only 1 is likely to be due to an eagle, case closed I'd say:)
    I disagree that case is closed. If your profit margin is the last 10% of lambs (and it may be even less) then 2% represents 20% of ones profit. Simplistic to make the point and ignores that some of the 2% may have been nonviable...EDIT I misinterpreted what BN had said and overlooked the significant detail of 2% of deaths and not 2% of lambs...:o

    but the following from the article you linked I think is is key!
    “Where there are problems with sea eagles predating on livestock we will look at maintaining and improving schemes to find ways to help farmers manage their stock to co-exist with these magnificent birds.”

    By the way, the picture in the OP is not a Sea Eagle and haven't sheep farmers and Golden Eagles been coexisting in Scotland for what must be centuries?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    Mothman wrote: »
    I disagree that case is closed. If your profit margin is the last 10% of lambs (and it may be even less) then 2% represents 20% of ones profit. Simplistic to make the point and ignores that some of the 2% may have been nonviable...but the following from the article you linked I think is is key!

    Solely on the definition of that point. The 2% isn't well defined in the article. It states "lamb mortality". Out of what area, out of what total of lambs. It may also be a case that a flock, or particular flocks could be disproportionately higher than 2% and other flocks disproportionately lower than 2%.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Mothman wrote: »
    I disagree that case is closed. If your profit margin is the last 10% of lambs (and it may be even less) then 2% represents 20% of ones profit. Simplistic to make the point and ignores that some of the 2% may have been nonviable...but the following from the article you linked I think is is key!


    QUOTE]

    But you would have to be losing 49 other lambs to lose one to an eagle - I think if thats the case the one you'd lose to an eagle would be the least of your problems:confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    johngalway wrote: »
    Solely on the definition of that point. The 2% isn't well defined in the article. It states "lamb mortality". Out of what area, out of what total of lambs. It may also be a case that a flock, or particular flocks could be disproportionately higher than 2% and other flocks disproportionately lower than 2%.

    I respect your views on this matter JG but you have to admit that Hoodies and foxes are far, far bigger factors in lamb deaths and data from donegal has already shown that eagles there are major predators of foxes, crows and Ravens going by the contents of eagle nests there:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    I respect your views on this matter JG but you have to admit that Hoodies and foxes are far, far bigger factors in lamb deaths and data from donegal has already shown that eagles there are major predators of foxes, crows and Ravens going by the contents of eagle nests there:)

    Of course. My point was only in relation to the 2% figure and how it may be skewed towards or against particular flocks. Mothman made the valid point on losses. My point was that to think in the geographical area concerned that each flock looses the same percentage would be quite extraordinary, and in fact not likely.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭Mothman


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Mothman wrote: »
    I disagree that case is closed. If your profit margin is the last 10% of lambs (and it may be even less) then 2% represents 20% of ones profit. Simplistic to make the point and ignores that some of the 2% may have been nonviable...but the following from the article you linked I think is is key!


    But you would have to be losing 49 other lambs to lose one to an eagle - I think if thats the case the one you'd lose to an eagle would be the least of your problems:confused:
    Ah sorry, I misread your post. Would you give a link to the study which states that 2% of lamb deaths are attributed to eagles?

    And John, thanks for raising the point that the 2% of mortality may represent flocks with a higher % to be counter balanced by flocks with a lower %.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    Given the commercial value of lambs I would have thought the benefits to tourism alone would far outweigh the cost of any losses to farmers.

    This theory will never make sense. Considering most farmers do not also have tourism businesses, it cannot benefit the farmer to lose the lamb. I can'#t believe we're again hearing the "There are too many carpenters out of work, so let's give more money to nurses" argument.
    If the eagles are actually causing any losses to farmers surely a compensation package could be arrived at

    Too many outstanding questions, too messy, unworkable.

    How does a farmer prove an eagle took a lamb?
    Would all nests be monitored for lamb remains?
    Is it absolutely sure that all carcasses would be brought back to the nest?
    What does the relevant body do with legitimate farmer witnessed claims which can't be otherwise proven by other evidence?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭BryanL


    Thanks for posting the picture Grizzly.
    I guess in the Hunting section it could be appreciated without people saying eagles only eat dead and dying lambs(How can they tell it's not going to make it?) to now a figure of 2% of total lambs in an area OR 2% of all lambs lost.


    A very impressive Bird none the less.
    Bryan


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Feargal as Luimneach


    Anybody thinking that the Golden Eagles will cause great damage in the North West. People should realise that there are only 2 successful breeding pairs in the country. There are less than twenty birds in the country. The Golden Eagle trust predicts that the country could hold 50 breeding pairs in total, as long as there not all poisoned or shot:mad:(correct me if I'm wrong in that figure). Compare that to the total number of Red foxes in the country 150,000+.
    Which would cause more damage 150,000+ foxes or 50 breeding pairs Eagles:confused::confused:
    Doesn't take a genius to figure it out................


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Mothman wrote: »
    Ah sorry, I misread your post. Would you give a link to the study which states that 2% of lamb deaths are attributed to eagles?

    From the link I provided earlier "that less then two per cent of mortality among lambs could be directly attributed to the raptors."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Anybody thinking that the Golden Eagles will cause great damage in the North West. People should realise that there are only 2 successful breeding pairs in the country. There are less than twenty birds in the country. The Golden Eagle trust predicts that the country could hold 50 breeding pairs in total, as long as there not all poisoned or shot:mad:(correct me if I'm wrong in that figure). Compare that to the total number of Red foxes in the country 150,000+.
    Which would cause more damage 150,000+ foxes or 50 breeding pairs Eagles:confused::confused:
    Doesn't take a genius to figure it out................

    More importantly there are many thousands of pairs of both eagle species living right in the middle of sheep country in places like Norway,Spain, Switzerland without any discernible affect on the industry:)


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