Unfair treatment

Usersname

Hello.

I would like to bring this post to your attention http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70888339&postcount=3

The first line of the post by AnCathDubh was extremely offensive and unwarranted. I have messaged AnCathDubh with regards to this matter and received no apology. He would not even acknowledge he was wrong to speak to me in such a manner.

I reported his post and was told nothing could be done about it because he is the Category mod of Photography and 'outranks' everyone else. This would certainly explain his behaviour.

So, I have messaged the mod, reported the post, tried the helpdesk, I have tried just about everything I can to bring this matter to the attention of someone who can deal with it.

An apology from AnCathDubh would have been sufficient but since he will not even admit any wrongdoing whatsoever, I would like to respectfully request he be either banned from the forum or removed from his position. At least if he is reprimanded he might think twice about speaking to people like this in the future.

Will

Hello,

I actually responded to your helpdesk thread earlier today but the comment has yet to be approved unfortunately. The general gist of my response was that maybe AnCatDubh was trying to encourage you to used the report post function on the forum, not to engage in the thread and let the moderators deal with it. Which is standard procedure.

Also your following responses didn't really leave much wiggle room for further debate and personally if they were directed at me I would be quite offended.

Usersname wrote: »

Nice attitude you have there buddy. But hey, you're a mod on boards, I guess that's standard.



I don't have a problem with this thread. I know what the procedure is, but I'm not going to try and get this post pulled down just because another mod such as yourself pulled my own. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You are obviously not a very nice or helpful person, so I will discontinue communicating with you.

Have a nice life.

Usersname

Well of course I replied as I did, look at the first line of AnCathDubh's post!

Will

Which was in response to your post

Usersname wrote: »

Nice, a post like this is allowed yet I can't tell people about a free service I'm providing.

Hypocrisy much?

Here's AnCatDubh's response;

AnCatDubh wrote: »

Usersname, while i'm sure the service you are providing is the best thing since the camera was made and we all should be bowing to its greatness, would you ever raise your concerns with the moderators of the forum.

Who has confirmed to you that a post like anything is allowed? Did you raise it anywhere? Whining or whinging on thread doesn't serve you well, upsets the OP of the thread, annoys the regulars and p's off the moderation of the forum.

If you don't like a post or find it objectionable under the guidance of the charter of the forum, then please use the report post feature and explain your grievance. It will then be given consideration.

Thank you.

So you are offended at AnCatDubh's response saying that you should raise the issue with the moderators? Or his tongue in cheek comment?

The main gist of his comment was polite and outlined the procedure to be followed, I see no unfair treatment to be honest. However I will mail AnCatDubh and ask him to wade in on this with his own opinions.

AnCatDubh

Thank you for the invitation to contribute to this dispute.

I think most of this matter has been covered in a variety of exchanges on thread and by pm. So, I'm thus a little surprised that usersname has felt the urge to escalate the matter. Indeed actions which were undertaken in reparation following the flagging of the interaction by a third party, were subsequently rejected by Usersname and thus rescinded.

The sequence, background and context to the matter is as follows:

On 21st Feb Usersname posts an advertisement in the Digital Darkroom sub forum of photography for a free service that usersname is offering.

Free Photo Editing and Design Service!
Hey all, just thought I'd bring this to your attention. It's a free service so I'm not really advertising

<<snip>>

Enjoy!

(usersname web address snipped above)

Under the charter provisions of the photography forum, such posts aren't allowed and the post was deleted by a moderator of the photography forum. This was a good call in my opinion by the moderator in question and not a matter for usersname to decide what is or isn't advertising - free or not. As an aside to this there is an accepted way of regular contributors to the photography forum in good standing to provide information about services they offer - for various reasons, it is restricted to the "Services Offered/Wanted thread". Essentially, there is only one way - this way which the community itself (not the moderators) have built.

26th Feb

Usersname on finding a post asking a question of the forum in relation to whether anyone could recommend a course (a groupon/city deal kinda thing), decided to object on thread as follows;

Usersname wrote: »

Nice, a post like this is allowed yet I can't tell people about a free service I'm providing.

Hypocrisy much?

So, this is when I stumble across the post. The attitude immediately begins to stink (imho) with the smarmy "Nice, " start to it. Then it proceeds with an assertion that a post of a particular kind is allowed. At that time no one had drawn this thread to the moderators attention (incidentally when it was brought to the attention of the moderators, they saw fit to partially edit out what could have been considered spam - i've no issue with that being done). Again, it is not Usersname's prerogative to decide if a particular post is allowed or not. This is covered in the forum's charter and essentially a user should report anything they suspect to be not allowed. And finally, Usersname accuses the forum, moderators, and/or boards.ie of hypocrisy. An unfounded accusation such as this shouldn't go unchallenged particularly from what appears to be an ill tempered post (again imho) and possibly/probably sore over the removal of an earlier offer to the forum - this, as quoted in their post.

Usersname contribution here is off topic, insulting to the moderation of the forum, and completely at variance to the charter which is after all that which gives guidance to how the forum is moderated. No user can insult the entire community in such a way.

My response was as follows:

AnCatDubh wrote: »

Usersname, while i'm sure the service you are providing is the best thing since the camera was made and we all should be bowing to its greatness, would you ever raise your concerns with the moderators of the forum.

Who has confirmed to you that a post like anything is allowed? Did you raise it anywhere? Whining or whinging on thread doesn't serve you well, upsets the OP of the thread, annoys the regulars and p's off the moderation of the forum.

If you don't like a post or find it objectionable under the guidance of the charter of the forum, then please use the report post feature and explain your grievance. It will then be given consideration.

Thank you.

In here I am happy to challenge Usersname on the basis of their post and have directed them to how to object under the terms of the forums charter. The initial bit seeks to refer to the earlier listed service which there appears to be a grievance with by Usersname but which under the charter provisions of the forum has no place presently on the forum no matter how great it is. For the record, I have no opinion on the actual service.

At this point Usersname responded with:

AnCatDubh wrote: »

i'm sure the service you are providing is the best thing since the camera was made and we all should be bowing to its greatness

Nice attitude you have there buddy. But hey, you're a mod on boards, I guess that's standard.

AnCatDubh wrote: »

If you don't like a post or find it objectionable under the guidance of the charter of the forum

I don't have a problem with this thread. I know what the procedure is, but I'm not going to try and get this post pulled down just because another mod such as yourself pulled my own. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You are obviously not a very nice or helpful person, so I will discontinue communicating with you.

Have a nice life.

It is my opinion of Usersname attitude as displayed in this post as something of utter contempt towards the moderation of the forum and hence I replied as follows:

Usersname wrote: »

Nice attitude you have there buddy. But hey, you're a mod on boards, I guess that's standard.

Leave that at the door if you are posting in the Arts Category.

I don't have a problem with this thread.

Well then why disrupt it.

I know what the procedure is,

Well then why don't you follow it.

but I'm not going to try and get this post pulled down just because another mod such as yourself pulled my own. Two wrongs don't make a right.

What post/thread? Was it an actimel vote for me - if it was they were toxic around here and all of them were pulled.

You are obviously not a very nice or helpful person, so I will discontinue communicating with you.

Have a nice life.

In such case, then you shouldn't bother in the first place really.

I've outlined what to do, you say you know the procedure, so just follow that, and refrain from disrupting other people's threads please.

Thank you.

I take it the above post is self explanatory.

Later that evening a user of the forum made contact over PM agreeing that a point was to be made but expressing concern over the first line of my original reply.

alexlyons wrote:

I'm deliberately not posting on the thread in question so as not to break any rules, but I have copied this to "username"

I'm no mod at all and it isn't really my place to step in. I'm just a regular user and have nothing to do with the running of the place.

That said, I am a member, and am allowed to have an opinion if it is voice correctly, which is why I'm communicating like this

I feel your first line of your first post isn't very fair. You have a point to make and a very valid one at that. I feel that if you want to make it, as a mod, you need respect from the users so they take on board what your saying, listen to it, and act on your comments. You are after all, enforcing the rules and they should listen.

It is much easier to get people to listen to you if you don't talk down to them and don't start of completely sarcastic. Who wants to take direction from someone blatantly being completely sarcastic?

If you want people to listen to you and respect you as a mod (which makes for a better forum) then is it not better to be friendly and treat every one as equals?

Again, it's not my place to police the forum, so I'm just giving you my small opinion, which may help in other situations should you decide to take it on board.

In all seriousness, you do a great job and I respect the fact it can get tiresome dealing with the same stuff over again.

Fair play to all of you, but maybe take a breath before replying



Thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056192785

I take this seriously. I am happy to accept independent third party opinion and hence responded as follows copying the photography mods and Usersname such that all concerned would know that I was happy to take on board some criticism of my reply and furthermore I was happy to clean the slate in respect of the interaction and remove it from Usersname's record:

AnCatDubh wrote:

Hey alex (copied photography mods and usersname),

Thanks for the pm. Much appreciated and always good to get feedback on issues.

I can assure you I wasn't intending sarcasm - sometimes I do on forum but then it will be blatantly obvious

Simply, the reaction stemmed from the tone and attitude of usersname's post which was wrong - this tone which was continued in usersname's subsequent post. The post(s) were inappropriate, impolite and at variance with provisions of the charter on many levels. If usersname has a particular beef with something there are documented ways of handling it which avoid interactions like the one being referred to.

That said, if the post drew in part an overly negative response from me then I guess that's something that i'll gladly accept as an independent third party interpretation of it. While the response was making necessary points given the circumstance, the discussion probably should have happened through other mechanisms available to us. With this in mind and given what you've said i've tidied up all offending posts off the thread and wiped the slate clean in respect of this interaction. I think all points have been made and are probably understood.

Thanks again for your feedback,

Regards,

Tommy.

(bold emphasis added for highlighting purposes)

At this point I removed the entire interaction including the original offending posts by Usersname effectively wiping the slate clean for this user.

This action appears to have been misinterpreted and the cc'd individuals received the following by PM:

Usersname wrote:

Clearly it is too difficult for AnCathDubh to just admit he was wrong.

I would just like to bring attention to what's actually going on here.

First, this mod made his blatantly condescending and insulting reply to my post. Which would still be viewable if 'someone' had not conveniently deleted it.

Second, he receives a message from someone informing him that he is in fact in the wrong in this matter. (more or less)

Then, he deletes said posts completely and proceeds to deny any wrongdoing, essentially claiming it is my fault that he was so insulting.

Justice has most definitely not been served in this matter and I am disgusted with AnCathDubh. 'Wiping the slate clean' is all fine and dandy when you are the offending party.

I am sorry for having to send this message but the one AnCathDubh sent to everyone is too far from the truth.

How about this AnCathDubh, if you are so innocent and my posts were so inappropriate, why didn't you send a copy of the posts along with your message and let people make up their own minds instead of replacing hard evidence with your blatant lies and outright denials?

I could take his insulting reply. I could take him deleting the post. But sending this message of lies to all the mods and blaming me for any and all wrongdoing? That, I cannot take.

Ok, so here i'm being called a liar a number of times and unfortunately the interpretation of earlier representations received from the independent don't really tell the exact nature of that interaction (which is why i'm happy to include it above).

I had no specific issue with the original post although in fairness when an independent user of the forum sought to draw my attention to it I was happy to review it and consider the nature of the interaction. Thus as Usersname was here whining about the interaction being removed I was quite happy to reinstate them and replied as follows:

AnCatDubh wrote:

Hi everyone,

Messages restored on thread. The poster wishes for it to remain on the record even though it was offered to put the slate clean for them. That's fine with me. I have no difficulty with them being there - I was reacting to an unsolicited and independent comment from Alex. Simple as that - nothing more intended.

Thank you,

Tommy.

I took that to be the end of the matter however then later in the day I received the following:

Usersname wrote:

You know Tommy, maybe instead of removing the posts, blaming me, putting the posts back up, defending your actions etc etc, maybe you could have simply apologised for being so rude. Would that be so difficult?

To be fair, I didn't see anything particularly wrong with my earlier response but am happy to stand by where on review I said "That said, if the post drew in part an overly negative response from me then I guess that's something that i'll gladly accept as an independent third party interpretation of it." albeit there were multiple contextual factors which were contributing to the entire episode.

Usersname also reported my post @15:46

Clearly mods can now say whatever they want on boards and reporting the post does absolutely nothing. **** YOU boards.ie.

Yes, the stars above are the expletive which included in full. I don't mean to harp on about it, but Usersname's attitude just stinks. Simple as that, there are numerous examples of which i've quoted here.

At that point @ 15:53 Usersname created a helpdesk thread followed by this dispute resolution thread @ 18:04 and hence I declined to respond further as is the normal practice of dispute resolution.

A couple of points to note:

• At no stage have I issued infractions on Usersname
• I haven't banned Usersname for attitude, approach, accusations, breach of charter, contempt of the moderation of the forum, or the F*** YOU boards.ie.
• At no stage has usersname noted, intimated, or otherwise indicated that perhaps, just perhaps their original post was out of line, at variance to the forum's charter, or should have been handled in a different manner - this even though as quoted, they have indicated that they are aware of correct procedure.
• I have accepted that an independent view of my response may view a part of it as overly negative and I have clarified that no sarcasm was intended. I have further clarified in this post that I was drawing attention to the "issue" of the "free service" which was being offered - this as a lead in to the direction being given.
• I offered remedial action clearing the record as I felt following the representations from a forum user that I certainly could have handled the matter differently - using the PM facility rather than on forum dialogue.
• The remedial action was rejected by Usersname and thus the record stands attributed to their user account. It was suggested by Usersname that I was conveniently removing it - an action intended purely to benefit the user, however as per the nature of the resulting pm I restored them.
• At no stage has usersname indicated that he was incorrect to refer to me as a liar. Usersname obviously thinks that they may carry on whatever way they wish on forum unchallenged and if I (or perhaps anyone entrusted with a level of moderation authority) challenge them, that I am a liar. While I find this attitude reprehensible I allowed it slip again as I saw an alternate approach which was available to me and I didn't utilise.

I think that about covers the nature of the interaction. Should you need any further information or opinion then I'll happily respond.

Thank you.

Tommy.

Will

Having read AnCatDubh's side of the story it appears to me that he has been nothing but fair and in fact quite lenient on you username. Will wait for your response and take it from there.

CabanSail

I would like to add a bit of information here. On the second time Usersname reported the same post, once before deletion and another after it was reinstated, I contacted him by PM.

Below is the exchange which has lead to this thread being created.

As a forum Mod I would prefer the posts deleted as they have dragged that thread off topic. If this happens they are still visible to Mods responsible for the forum.

I'm not in a position to discipline Tommy, as he's above me in the Boards heirarchy. He's a Catagory Mod for Arts.

If you wish to have this matter looked into then the appropriate action would be to raise it in the Dispute Resolution Forum. There it will be looked into by an Administrator. If you do that I would suggest you try to be calm and civil.

Tony

Originally Posted by Usersname
Apt punishment for AnCathDubh. Lets face it, if anyone else but a mod had made the comment he made, they would have been banned instantly. So just a little justice is all I want. An apology from AnCathDubh would have been enough, but that is definitely not going to happen since he still feels his sarcastic rude reply is justified and therefore within the rules.

Oh, and I did not request for the posts to be restored. I was asking him to at least send the posts along with his messages instead of deleting the posts and lying about their content.

Originally Posted by CabanSail
Hello,

I see you have reported the same post by AnCatDubh twice now.

As far as I can see the posts were deleted but, at your request, they were once again restored.

Can you please let me know what it is that you want to happen here?

Tony

Photography Moderator

Will

You may not post in a thread that is not related to you, even if you think you’re being helpful, without being invited to do so by the CMod or Admin looking after the issue at hand. This applies to all members of the site.

Please refrain from posting until asked to do so. Thank you.