Take-away delivery - not enough money to give me change

Bigcheeze

Zab wrote: »

This is all understandable.

However, although "you owe the money in accordance with the terms of the contract (clearly understood by pretty well everybody to be cash on delivery)", you could argue that pretty much everybody would expect the terms to include change.

The part that isn't sitting well is obviously at the payment stage. It has been stated in this thread that when I hand over any legal tender I immediately lose the right to anything extra that I've handed over. The reason I was looking for it in writing was in the hope it would deal with the situation after the vendor refuses to give change.

There's no legal requirement to provide change. I think some people are incorrectly concluding that this gives a retailer carte blanche to pocket any excess cash if they don't have change.

P. Breathnach

Bigcheeze wrote: »

There's no legal requirement to provide change. I think some people are incorrectly concluding that this gives a retailer carte blanche to pocket any excess cash if they don't have change.

In what way is it an incorrect conclusion?

If you owe me €15, tender €20, and I tell you that I have no change, you have a limited opportunity to sort things out. You can try to solve the problem by arranging to find €15 to give me (pop out to the local shop, ask a neighbour, check all the places in the house where you might have some cash, whatever). If you don't manage, and give me the €20, I can reasonably accept it and walk away.

Zab

P. Breathnach wrote: »

In what way is it an incorrect conclusion?

If you owe me €15, tender €20, and I tell you that I have no change, you have a limited opportunity to sort things out. You can try to solve the problem by arranging to find €15 to give me (pop out to the local shop, ask a neighbour, check all the places in the house where you might have some cash, whatever). If you don't manage, and give me the €20, I can reasonably accept it and walk away.

My question is whether you have to first give back the €20 before I go and find something smaller, and at what stage you cease to owe me the excess, whether it be in change or otherwise (immediately after it leaves my grasp according to this thread).

P. Breathnach

Zab wrote: »

... However, although "you owe the money in accordance with the terms of the contract (clearly understood by pretty well everybody to be cash on delivery)", you could argue that pretty much everybody would expect the terms to include change.

The part that isn't sitting well is obviously at the payment stage. It has been stated in this thread that when I hand over any legal tender I immediately lose the right to anything extra that I've handed over. The reason I was looking for it in writing was in the hope it would deal with the situation after the vendor refuses to give change.

This:

In order to comply with the very strict rules governing an actual legal tender it is necessary, for example, actually to offer the exact amount due because no change can be demanded.

Source: http://www.royalmint.com/corporate/policies/legal_tender_guidelines.aspx

And this:

However, restaurants that do not collect money until after a meal is served would have to accept any legal tender, though they would not be obliged to provide change – the restaurant is not in debt, it has been given a gift.

Source: http://www.irelandinformationguide.com/Legal_tender

slimjimmc

Zab wrote: »

My question is whether you have to first give back the €20 before I go and find something smaller, and at what stage you cease to owe me the excess, whether it be in change or otherwise (immediately after it leaves my grasp according to this thread).

Legally he probably doesn't have to give it back as you have already tendered it and he has accepted your kind gift. He never owed you the excess in the first place.

If you have a larger note the sensible thing to do is ask him first if he can give you change. If he can't or won't offer change then it's up to you to either give him the exact amount or gift him the excess.

Most people will give you back the note in order for you to get change but your pizza will probably be gone cold by the time you get down to the shop or have a rummage under the sofa.

Zab

Cheers Breathnach. That's the sort of thing I was looking for.

P. Breathnach wrote: »

This:

Source: http://www.royalmint.com/corporate/policies/legal_tender_guidelines.aspx

This is the UK obviously, but it's interesting enough. It doesn't say that the vendor can just take whatever is tendered (the other link does), it just says that you cannot demand change (it says "it is necessary ... actually to offer the exact amount due").

And this:

Source: http://www.irelandinformationguide.com/Legal_tender

I actually saw that page when I was looking before, but missed the gift part at the top because I skipped to the Republic of Ireland section. It definitely specifies gift. The article supplies a few references but the site itself doesn't instil too much confidence. I'd love to find something in the statute book. I've had a look through some acts but haven't seen anything yet.

You can try to solve the problem by arranging to find €15 to give me (pop out to the local shop, ask a neighbour, check all the places in the house where you might have some cash, whatever). If you don't manage, and give me the €20, I can reasonably accept it and walk away.

You appear to be being much more reasonable here than is necessary though. It seems like there's legal basis for the vendor immediately just walking away without giving you change. This seems at odds with what most people would expect though, and not what most would consider "right". I know there are other examples of the law being contrary to public thought.

P. Breathnach

Zab wrote: »

... This is the UK obviously, but it's interesting enough...

UK sources are usually relevant for Ireland. Most of our mercantile law is carried forward from UK law as it was when we were part of the UK. Differences exist only where the law has been modified in one jurisdiction or the other since 1922.

focus_mad

DublinWriter wrote: »

No, it's actually the principal.

Tell you what...spend a week delivering pizzas in a beat-up Nissan Micra to Irish dole-scum who can't even be bothered to cook food for their families and who'd rather feed their kids trans-fat salt-laden take-out junk food and then come on here complaining that you've been done out of €2 by some poor eastern-european/asian worker that's on minimum wage.

Walk a mile in that person's shoes and then I'll start to listen to you.

So all delivery drivers have sh1t cars? I don't
Its my experience you get tips off the so called "dole-scum" more so then off the more "well to do" households.

There is one lad that I worked with that constantly "didn't have change", people started complaining because he did it to nearly everyone!!

I found that if you actually make an effort with the customers your bound to get more tips. I had one regular that used to get me to get him a bottle of wine and smokes when delivering and I got a tenner tip everytime..

aido 1976

DublinWriter wrote: »

No, it's actually the principal.

Tell you what...spend a week delivering pizzas in a beat-up Nissan Micra to Irish dole-scum who can't even be bothered to cook food for their families and who'd rather feed their kids trans-fat salt-laden take-out junk food and then come on here complaining that you've been done out of €2 by some poor eastern-european/asian worker that's on minimum wage.

Walk a mile in that person's shoes and then I'll start to listen to you.

Jasus, Thats a bit harsh

Someone has a chip on their shoulder

antodeco

aido 1976 wrote: »

Jasus, Thats a bit harsh

Someone has a chip on their shoulder

Or a pizza

That piece about contract law is actually really interesting. Going to read up on it.

RayCon

DublinWriter wrote: »

No, it's actually the principal.

Tell you what...spend a week delivering pizzas in a beat-up Nissan Micra to Irish dole-scum who can't even be bothered to cook food for their families and who'd rather feed their kids trans-fat salt-laden take-out junk food and then come on here complaining that you've been done out of €2 by some poor eastern-european/asian worker that's on minimum wage.

Walk a mile in that person's shoes and then I'll start to listen to you.

Bono ? ... Is that you ? ... Chris Martin ? ... Geldof ? ..... Mother Theresa ?

DublinWriter

RayCon wrote: »

Bono ? ... Is that you ? ... Chris Martin ? ... Geldof ? ..... Mother Theresa ?

Nope, tonight I'm your pizza delivery man, and guess what?...

gandalf

TBH OP I would find that sort of behaviour wrong. If a tip is forthcoming then it should be your choice not his. I take on board that legally he did nothing wrong but from a business perspective he has provided a bad service to the customer and left them with a bad feeling from the transaction. In the past when I have received service like this no matter what industry or service it is I have tended to move my business elsewhere.

OP I think you should complain and it should be along the lines of you would expect them to give change from a 20 euro note for a 11 euro purchase. I would also say that being forced to give a tip of 2 euro is not something that you would expect foisted upon you and will factor negatively in any future decisions you have on making purchases from them.

foggy_lad

kona wrote: »

If you Know that you need to get over e5 in change maybe tell them when you order? So the driver can get the change.
Id have thought some simple maths/cop on would easily solve problems like this.

If I order pizza chinese or other take away food for maybe €20 and the driver has not got change of €50 I dont accept the food tell them to p1ss off then ring the shop to complain and give them detailed instruction on what they can do with the returned food, then I order food from another shop. I have never told any shop when ordering that i will be paying with a €50.

if delivery drivers claim they dont have change of €50 on a friday or saturday night they are lying and should not be trusted! Giving someone €32.50 change usually ends up in the driver getting a €2.50 tip but claiming to not have enough change will result in refusing the food and complaints to the boss!

mikemac

If you have only a €50 note best to tell the place when ordering and give them a heads up.

Not telling them to piss off and then complaining and the end result is you get no food and the business lost a sale
Then you make more phonecalls and wait even longer for another delivery
Now Foggy lad, isn't that a much easier solution?

For the OP though, any driver should have change for €20

jimmycrackcorm

If a Pizza driver ever short changed me like the OP's situation then I'd order a delivery of several custom pizzas another day and when it arrived, complain that I was short-changed and that's why I "didn't" order these.

jamesbrond

Should have phoned the pizza shop. Told them the story and asked them if they wanted to leave the pizza and come back with change later and you would pay.

Or they could just take the pizza back and you would order somewhere else that night and in future.

I wouldnt let them take the pizza away and then come back with it and change. Never know what would be in it when you got it back.