Take-away delivery - not enough money to give me change

amiable

sarah-bear wrote: »

Thanks,

That's what I thought alright.

Its not like I have a problem giving a tip (I always do!) but this just kind of annoyed me.

Will email customer services and see how I get on....

If you always give a tip how come you had 21 euro ready to get a 10euro note back?
By the way delivery drivers do tend to use tactics to get a tip.

Bigcheeze

jor el wrote: »

Any shop that refused to give change would make a very short term gain before running out of customers.

They wouldn't make any short term gain. Obviously if the shop doesn't want to or can't give change, the transaction can be cancelled by the customer and the person can take back their €50 or whatever denomination they handed over!

jester77

That's bad form and doesn't reflect too well on the pizza company, regardless of whether or not it's their right not to have adequate change on their drivers.

I've been in this position a few times and on each occasion the driver sorted it out it my favour. When it was from a place where I regularly order they offered not to take the money and that I could sort them out the next time they delivered. When it was not from a company where I ordered too frequently, the driver took my money and promised to return later that evening with the appropriate change, and that he did. A little customer service can go a long way. If I was treated like you OP, then I would not be placing any future orders with that company.

djayforza

i myself am a delivery driver, i would never leave someone short 2 quid i have often gone to the local shop and back to offer the right change. sometimes circumstances do occur where u dont have the right change but a simple call to the shop can sort that out. in relation to drivers using tactics to get tips some do some dont i dont i always give the money back and whatever the customer decides to give me is a bonus. the odd time i might leave someone 5 on 10c short but thats hardly a big deal. if this no change thing is constant well then report it otherwise forget about it and dont bother reporting it. anyway all drivers i know and work with are honest and reliable and at the end of the day they are only out to make a few bob. may i remind you that i get 25e for 4 hours but if no deliveries come in thats all i get. my shop isnt the busiest and its becoming less and less viable with the increasing fuel costs to be a driver. i hope this insight into the my work might give all a bit of perspective on what our jobs are like(no offense meant if any taken)

UrbanSea

That's a good point forza. My friend who often delivers goes to thje shop for people if there's no change,usually at the start of a shift if he hadn't thought of it.

Star_Cow

Corruption Pizza Man Of Doom!

Max Power1

Bigcheeze wrote: »

They wouldn't make any short term gain. Obviously if the shop doesn't want to or can't give change, the transaction can be cancelled by the customer and the person can take back their €50 or whatever denomination they handed over!

What if its a situation where a debt has been incurred eg filling station, restaurant etc?

The customer cannot cancel the transaction after consuming the good and incurring a debt.

dudara

Bigcheeze wrote: »

They wouldn't make any short term gain. Obviously if the shop doesn't want to or can't give change, the transaction can be cancelled by the customer and the person can take back their €50 or whatever denomination they handed over!

It may not be possible to cancel the transaction in all situations, and is even trickier legally if a contract has been deemed to be formed.

kona

If you Know that you need to get over e5 in change maybe tell them when you order? So the driver can get the change.
Id have thought some simple maths/cop on would easily solve problems like this.

Zab

dudara wrote: »

It may not be possible to cancel the transaction in all situations, and is even trickier legally if a contract has been deemed to be formed.

Yeah, there are a lot of situations where this may be the case.

What legislation is it that covers these situations?

Bigcheeze

Max Power1 wrote: »

What if its a situation where a debt has been incurred eg filling station, restaurant etc?

The customer cannot cancel the transaction after consuming the good and incurring a debt.

I guess the customer can come back with the correct change or post it.

dudara

Zab wrote: »

Yeah, there are a lot of situations where this may be the case.

What legislation is it that covers these situations?

I'd say that Contract Law covers it - but maybe someone else can offer more insight.

Max Power1

Bigcheeze wrote: »

I guess the customer can come back with the correct change or post it.

Leaving without settling the incurred debt?

JustAddWater

Why not ask them to credit €2 to your account? They should do that for you

celtictiger32

sarah-bear wrote: »

As a regular customer of my local pizza delivery company, I ordered a delivery on Wednesday evening.

My order came to €11.

When the delivery driver called to the house, I gave him €21 so to get a €10 note in return.
He said he did not have a €10 note so gave me back the €1, and would give the change (€9) from the €20.

While counting out the change, he said he hadn't enough change to give me back, so only gave me €7 as opposed to €9.

I would have considered it a common occurance to pay for an €11 order with a €20 note so would have expected the change to be available.

I know its only €2 but its the principle!

Would it be worth it to write an email to their customer complaints dept?
Or just leave it out?

i would have taken the 20 back and told him to come back for his money when he has change i have done the oul delivery job many years ago and i always made sure i had a float as any other drivers i knew. chances are i would of probably given him the 2 euro as a tip had there been no problems...

a similar thing gets on my wick is i live in a court complex where maybe 10 -15 houses are in a little court facing each other if you can picture that, you have to walk through a little archway to enter the complex. the distance is no longer than a lot of driveways but when i order a pizza the delivery driver refuses to walk in requesting me to go to the car park, any other drivers chinese, chipper or whatever always come in and cant understand why the pizza guy wont ..... and he wonders why he never gets tipped.

Bigcheeze

Max Power1 wrote: »

Leaving without settling the incurred debt?

Nothing in the law says they can't give credit.

celtictiger32

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Nothing in the law says they can't give credit.

if hes any sort of a business man he would give the credit, hes not obliged to but its a gesture of good will and if it were me i would gladly credit the customer. for the sake of 2 euro to lose a regular customer??????...... its a no brainer

Zab

dudara wrote: »

I'd say that Contract Law covers it - but maybe someone else can offer more insight.

I haven't had any luck finding further information on this. Max Power, do you remember where you first read this?

P. Breathnach

Zab wrote: »

I haven't had any luck finding further information on this. Max Power, do you remember where you first read this?

It really is basic contract law: you order a pizza for delivery (offer); the pizza company agrees to send it out (acceptance); the pizza is delivered (performance); you owe the money in accordance with the terms of the contract (clearly understood by pretty well everybody to be cash on delivery).

The purchaser has an obligation to make payment in legal tender (there is no implicit right to be given change but vendors normally oblige by giving it). The customer has no right to defer payment.

Zab

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It really is basic contract law: you order a pizza for delivery (offer); the pizza company agrees to send it out (acceptance); the pizza is delivered (performance); you owe the money in accordance with the terms of the contract (clearly understood by pretty well everybody to be cash on delivery).

The purchaser has an obligation to make payment in legal tender (there is no implicit right to be given change but vendors normally oblige by giving it). The customer has no right to defer payment.

This is all understandable.

However, although "you owe the money in accordance with the terms of the contract (clearly understood by pretty well everybody to be cash on delivery)", you could argue that pretty much everybody would expect the terms to include change.

The part that isn't sitting well is obviously at the payment stage. It has been stated in this thread that when I hand over any legal tender I immediately lose the right to anything extra that I've handed over. The reason I was looking for it in writing was in the hope it would deal with the situation after the vendor refuses to give change.

Bigcheeze

Zab wrote: »

This is all understandable.

However, although "you owe the money in accordance with the terms of the contract (clearly understood by pretty well everybody to be cash on delivery)", you could argue that pretty much everybody would expect the terms to include change.

The part that isn't sitting well is obviously at the payment stage. It has been stated in this thread that when I hand over any legal tender I immediately lose the right to anything extra that I've handed over. The reason I was looking for it in writing was in the hope it would deal with the situation after the vendor refuses to give change.

There's no legal requirement to provide change. I think some people are incorrectly concluding that this gives a retailer carte blanche to pocket any excess cash if they don't have change.

P. Breathnach

Bigcheeze wrote: »

There's no legal requirement to provide change. I think some people are incorrectly concluding that this gives a retailer carte blanche to pocket any excess cash if they don't have change.

In what way is it an incorrect conclusion?

If you owe me €15, tender €20, and I tell you that I have no change, you have a limited opportunity to sort things out. You can try to solve the problem by arranging to find €15 to give me (pop out to the local shop, ask a neighbour, check all the places in the house where you might have some cash, whatever). If you don't manage, and give me the €20, I can reasonably accept it and walk away.

Zab

P. Breathnach wrote: »

In what way is it an incorrect conclusion?

If you owe me €15, tender €20, and I tell you that I have no change, you have a limited opportunity to sort things out. You can try to solve the problem by arranging to find €15 to give me (pop out to the local shop, ask a neighbour, check all the places in the house where you might have some cash, whatever). If you don't manage, and give me the €20, I can reasonably accept it and walk away.

My question is whether you have to first give back the €20 before I go and find something smaller, and at what stage you cease to owe me the excess, whether it be in change or otherwise (immediately after it leaves my grasp according to this thread).

P. Breathnach

Zab wrote: »

... However, although "you owe the money in accordance with the terms of the contract (clearly understood by pretty well everybody to be cash on delivery)", you could argue that pretty much everybody would expect the terms to include change.

The part that isn't sitting well is obviously at the payment stage. It has been stated in this thread that when I hand over any legal tender I immediately lose the right to anything extra that I've handed over. The reason I was looking for it in writing was in the hope it would deal with the situation after the vendor refuses to give change.

This:

In order to comply with the very strict rules governing an actual legal tender it is necessary, for example, actually to offer the exact amount due because no change can be demanded.

Source: http://www.royalmint.com/corporate/policies/legal_tender_guidelines.aspx

And this:

However, restaurants that do not collect money until after a meal is served would have to accept any legal tender, though they would not be obliged to provide change – the restaurant is not in debt, it has been given a gift.

Source: http://www.irelandinformationguide.com/Legal_tender

slimjimmc

Zab wrote: »

My question is whether you have to first give back the €20 before I go and find something smaller, and at what stage you cease to owe me the excess, whether it be in change or otherwise (immediately after it leaves my grasp according to this thread).

Legally he probably doesn't have to give it back as you have already tendered it and he has accepted your kind gift. He never owed you the excess in the first place.

If you have a larger note the sensible thing to do is ask him first if he can give you change. If he can't or won't offer change then it's up to you to either give him the exact amount or gift him the excess.

Most people will give you back the note in order for you to get change but your pizza will probably be gone cold by the time you get down to the shop or have a rummage under the sofa.

Zab

Cheers Breathnach. That's the sort of thing I was looking for.

P. Breathnach wrote: »

This:

Source: http://www.royalmint.com/corporate/policies/legal_tender_guidelines.aspx

This is the UK obviously, but it's interesting enough. It doesn't say that the vendor can just take whatever is tendered (the other link does), it just says that you cannot demand change (it says "it is necessary ... actually to offer the exact amount due").

And this:

Source: http://www.irelandinformationguide.com/Legal_tender

I actually saw that page when I was looking before, but missed the gift part at the top because I skipped to the Republic of Ireland section. It definitely specifies gift. The article supplies a few references but the site itself doesn't instil too much confidence. I'd love to find something in the statute book. I've had a look through some acts but haven't seen anything yet.

You can try to solve the problem by arranging to find €15 to give me (pop out to the local shop, ask a neighbour, check all the places in the house where you might have some cash, whatever). If you don't manage, and give me the €20, I can reasonably accept it and walk away.

You appear to be being much more reasonable here than is necessary though. It seems like there's legal basis for the vendor immediately just walking away without giving you change. This seems at odds with what most people would expect though, and not what most would consider "right". I know there are other examples of the law being contrary to public thought.

P. Breathnach

Zab wrote: »

... This is the UK obviously, but it's interesting enough...

UK sources are usually relevant for Ireland. Most of our mercantile law is carried forward from UK law as it was when we were part of the UK. Differences exist only where the law has been modified in one jurisdiction or the other since 1922.

focus_mad

DublinWriter wrote: »

No, it's actually the principal.

Tell you what...spend a week delivering pizzas in a beat-up Nissan Micra to Irish dole-scum who can't even be bothered to cook food for their families and who'd rather feed their kids trans-fat salt-laden take-out junk food and then come on here complaining that you've been done out of €2 by some poor eastern-european/asian worker that's on minimum wage.

Walk a mile in that person's shoes and then I'll start to listen to you.

So all delivery drivers have sh1t cars? I don't
Its my experience you get tips off the so called "dole-scum" more so then off the more "well to do" households.

There is one lad that I worked with that constantly "didn't have change", people started complaining because he did it to nearly everyone!!

I found that if you actually make an effort with the customers your bound to get more tips. I had one regular that used to get me to get him a bottle of wine and smokes when delivering and I got a tenner tip everytime..

aido 1976

DublinWriter wrote: »

No, it's actually the principal.

Tell you what...spend a week delivering pizzas in a beat-up Nissan Micra to Irish dole-scum who can't even be bothered to cook food for their families and who'd rather feed their kids trans-fat salt-laden take-out junk food and then come on here complaining that you've been done out of €2 by some poor eastern-european/asian worker that's on minimum wage.

Walk a mile in that person's shoes and then I'll start to listen to you.

Jasus, Thats a bit harsh

Someone has a chip on their shoulder

antodeco

aido 1976 wrote: »

Jasus, Thats a bit harsh

Someone has a chip on their shoulder

Or a pizza

That piece about contract law is actually really interesting. Going to read up on it.