Silver Marked Garda Car

mle1324

meathstevie wrote: »

The 3.2 4 wheel drive Insignia is supposed to be a crackin machine but I can't see the powers that be being willing to buy a load of them.

2.8 actually, 3.2 are the older Omegas and early models of the Vectra from 03 up. I doubt it was even the 2.8 that was tested, most likely the 2.0L Cdti.

Your right they'd never be bought. No need for them really because with the speed there capable of reaching there would be no way that gardai would pursue someone at speed of nearly 150mph/241kph. It's being mention here and the motors forum loads of times.

If it was the case the helicopter would be called in to take over.

Irish Fire

mle1324 wrote: »

2.8 actually, 3.2 are the older Omegas and early models of the Vectra from 03 up. I doubt it was even the 2.8 that was tested, most likely the 2.0L Cdti.

Your right they'd never be bought. No need for them really because with the speed there capable of reaching there would be no way that gardai would pursue someone at speed of nearly 150mph/241kph. It's being mention here and the motors forum loads of times.

If it was the case the helicopter would be called in to take over.

Straight line, car at 150mph would loose the helicopter

mle1324

Irish Fire wrote: »

Straight line, car at 150mph would loose the helicopter

Really? I always thought the Eurocopter could easily travel that fast.

Locust

Eurocopters cruising speed - 158mph without breaking a sweat
Ref:-
http://www.eurocopter.com/site/en/ref/Characteristics_87.html

gerire

Irish Fire wrote: »

Straight line, car at 150mph would loose the helicopter

And how many roads to we have that the copter cant take the shortest route?

We do not have long straight roads over hundreds of k's.

If the copter has you in its sights you'll need to be doing ninja stuff to get out of the way. Hills and clouds.....

Terrontress

Surely with extremely quick cars like Evo, Imprezza, R32, ST220 etc the whole point is that anyone who knows a bit about cars will not even dream about not stopping. Those who might be prepared to attempt to outrun a Garda Focus saloon would think again if they saw a marked car in their mirror capable of hitting a 155mph limiter with ease.

The ability and threat to do 155 is more important than actually doing it.

Locust

I've always been a believer that the average Police/Garda car should be superior/faster than what the general public have access to (along with better trained drivers). Great deterrant.

At the same time I can't believe the stupidity/foolishness of people trying to outrun Gardai going 120mph+ on an irish road - the chances of them loosing control and killing or injuring themselves increases exponentially!

Terrontress

Locust wrote: »

I've always been a believer that the average Police/Garda car should be superior/faster than what the general public have access to (along with better trained drivers). Great deterrant.

At the same time I can't believe the stupidity/foolishness of people trying to outrun Gardai going 120mph+ on an irish road - the chances of them loosing control and killing or injuring themselves increases exponentially!

Well, there is the whole issue of Chief's, allowing untrained drivers to drive operational garda vehicles. And then driving underpowered family saloons. There are kids stealing cars who think themselves superior to Garda drivers. Obviously Garda drivers make a risk assessment and will pull back if the driving required to keep up with these jokers is dangerous or else it is felt that, by pursuing, they are causing the little snotters to drive dangerously to escape.

searescue

New estate Avensis Traffic Corps car based in Tralee is silver.

source

saw it yesterday, bombing past ballyseedy, good looking car in the flesh.

searescue

Just put 4 pictures of it in the Photo Gallery

Hogzy

searescue wrote: »

Just put 4 pictures of it in the Photo Gallery

EDIT: Never mind

Manic Moran

Terrontress wrote: »

There are kids stealing cars who think themselves superior to Garda drivers.

There is something of a fun solution to that one in the US. Beat the Heat/Beat the Badge/Top the Cops/Drags not Drugs/<Your catchy name here>.

Basically the local PD hires out the local raceway/drag strip, and invites all comers to try to beat their cruisers or pursuit cars. That way they're not doing it on the street.







Of course, sometimes they cheat...



I think the Gardai should do that down Mondello way.

A related event was Pursuit for the Cure, but it hit a bit of bad press. Though it's actually a fund-raising event for cancer research, apparently people objected to officers (even off-duty) driving in-service vehicles across the US to participate in races against other cops.

NTM

searescue

They now have two Avensis estates in Tralee...both Traffic Corps and also one normal Avensis for the regular work.

Have to say, never seen the Guards use their blues so much around here since they got their new cars

searescue

searescue wrote: »

Have to say, never seen the Guards use their blues so much around here since they got their new cars

Maybe its the fact you can see the blue lights now.

Corcioch

Skoda's my foot . . . . .I wouldn't believe a word of that story.

I'm driving one of those Silver Avensis Estates the odd day . . . . . . .Ball of durt compared to a Mondeo.

Terrontress

Manic Moran wrote: »

There is something of a fun solution to that one in the US. Beat the Heat/Beat the Badge/Top the Cops/Drags not Drugs/<Your catchy name here>.

Basically the local PD hires out the local raceway/drag strip, and invites all comers to try to beat their cruisers or pursuit cars. That way they're not doing it on the street.


I think the Gardai should do that down Mondello way.

A related event was Pursuit for the Cure, but it hit a bit of bad press. Though it's actually a fund-raising event for cancer research, apparently people objected to officers (even off-duty) driving in-service vehicles across the US to participate in races against other cops.

NTM

That is a fantastic idea and a good way to engage with the community. I suppose the PSNI do something similar with taking their Evos, WRXs and R32s to car meets although they don't race them.

The difficulty would be when the kids in their Glanzas consistently beat the Garda family saloons. All those American police cars are V6 or V8s! The knacks would get the idea that they are always going to outrun the Gardaí in a chase!

lezza

conclusion is silver marked patrol cars are traffic corps cars only

nowayout1

i think there trying to have a certain coloured car for traffic corps (silver), motorways, and going about housing estates (white)

i think they should get some bmw's like they got in the uk 3series, 5series and x5's. garda cars are always more powerful than civil cars

mle1324

nowayout1 wrote: »

i think there trying to have a certain coloured car for traffic corps (silver), motorways, and going about housing estates (white)

i think they should get some bmw's like they got in the uk 3series, 5series and x5's. garda cars are always more powerful than civil cars

To be fair If I was a guard a 3 or 5 series is the last thing I want, especially after the winter we had.

DUB777

Hogzy wrote: »

Seeing as we cannot post on the photos forum i had to create a new thread.

Are garda cars switching to a silver color or is this just a demo model?

Photo

Man, the po po are driving everything these days. If your up to no good, you should consider every car on the road a cop car. I saw a 92 silver primera with Merlin motors on the surround of the reg plate[ garda cars generally didnt{until recently} have any garage advertising on them], complete with siren and flashing blue lights ripping past me the other day on church st & a pair of plain clothed coppers in it. Believe me, it'd be easier to list the cars they dont drive ie Murcielago's, 600 S class amg's, r35 GTR's. Any normal car joe soap would or could own, i'm sure somewhere in the 26 counties they've got one. They dont have their head up in the clouds anymore buying 5000-10000 corrollas in a bunch same with mondeos, although they are the most common. They've got 11 avensis, volvos, all sorts of jammers. It is practically becoming impossible to distinguish them from a normal persons car. They've even copped onto having 3 or 4 aerials hanging out of them. Times are changing.

DUB777

nowayout1 wrote: »

i think there trying to have a certain coloured car for traffic corps (silver), motorways, and going about housing estates (white)

i think they should get some bmw's like they got in the uk 3series, 5series and x5's. garda cars are always more powerful than civil cars

I cant say I've seen x5's but they're in forresters & I know for a fact they have a sweet looking 3 series bmw out in inchicore direction. Looks very boy racerish, tinted back 3 windows, skirts, factory alloy wheels. A lovely looking car, but its a branch car & I'd never touch an x-branch car, cause its had the b0110x driven out of it. All of them have, they might be maintained, but they're been well rallied & chances are in a city like dublin, cork or galway, they'd have been running 24-7, stopping for a few minutes between shift changes.

DUB777

Irish Fire wrote: »

Straight line, car at 150mph would loose the helicopter

Or drive around an airport / incoming flight path = no fly zone for copper chopper:cool:

Locust

DUB777 wrote: »

Or drive around an airport / incoming flight path = no fly zone for copper chopper:cool:

Depends what time of day it is... & anyways, chopper can watch watch you from km's outside the airport perimeter no problemo with their super cool cameras... No need to get in the way of other aircraft.

Anyway, if you were to try that in Dublin i know the Dublin Airport is surrounded by at least 5 Garda stations!

DUB777

Locust wrote: »

Depends what time of day it is... & anyways, chopper can watch watch you from km's outside the airport perimeter no problemo with their super cool cameras... No need to get in the way of other aircraft.

Anyway, if you were to try that in Dublin i know the Dublin Airport is surrounded by at least 5 Garda stations!

That may be true, but if it was surrounded by 5 cop shops, why didnt they manage to catch the 3 lads in the M5 who shot the 2 lads at tesco's clearwater petrol station before xmas? The lost them before they got to the M1.

Zambia

Not catching someone at the time is not the same as letting them get away.

kirving

DUB777 wrote: »

Or drive around an airport / incoming flight path = no fly zone for copper chopper:cool:

Garda Helicopter can go where it wants, takes priority over civilian flights.

Hogzy

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Garda Helicopter can go where it wants, takes priority over civilian flights.

Plain and simply not true
I can guarantee you my right leg that a the Dublin Airport tower would not let it in to the glide path of the runway if it was not clear. They maybe the Gardai but they are still bound by all air traffic rules and they MUST do what the controller tells them to do.

DUB777

Hogzy wrote: »

Plain and simply not true
I can guarantee you my right leg that a the Dublin Airport tower would not let it in to the glide path of the runway if it was not clear. They maybe the Gardai but they are still bound by all air traffic rules and they MUST do what the controller tells them to do.

The man types the truth, I've a friend who works in ATC.

DUB777

Zambia wrote: »

Not catching someone at the time is not the same as letting them get away.

Give it time, we'll see.
If we could bet cash or credits, I'd bet all I have on them not being caught.

schwegil

Hogzy wrote: »

Seeing as we cannot post on the photos forum i had to create a new thread.

Are garda cars switching to a silver color or is this just a demo model?

Photo

The silver gardai cars are for the traffic core unit of the force( maybe to make them more visible or noticeable?) as far as i remember and the white is for the regular duties.... maybe it was mentioned already

Maybe all the people taking about why AGS have got silver marked cars would like to come up with some evidence as to why they are now in the fleet?

Hogzy

DUB777 wrote: »

The man types the truth, I've a friend who works in ATC.

So are you agreeing with me or the other guy?

DUB777

Hogzy wrote: »

So are you agreeing with me or the other guy?

Agreeing with you, ATC wouldn't divert incoming flights so the copper chopper could chase some one. No matter what they did, it'd f#~k up the incoming flights of other aircraft behind them. They'd be taxi'ing i think they call it around the air & if it was a ryanair flight, the schedule would be ****ed for the rest of the day. ATC would have Michael O Leary screaming at them & god knows how many other airlines.

It would f~#k up the rotation mang;)

DUB777

foreign wrote: »

Maybe all the people taking about why AGS have got silver marked cars would like to come up with some evidence as to why they are now in the fleet?

Evidence as to why they're in the fleet?? Yes Gard:D I'll get on it straight away;)

Hogzy

DUB777 wrote: »

Agreeing with you, ATC wouldn't divert incoming flights so the copper chopper could chase some one. No matter what they did, it'd f#~k up the incoming flights of other aircraft behind them. They'd be taxi'ing i think they call it around the air & if it was a ryanair flight, the schedule would be ****ed for the rest of the day. ATC would have Michael O Leary screaming at them & god knows how many other airlines.

It would f~#k up the rotation mang;)

Exactly. And the financial burden on the airlines would be FARRRRRRRR greater than what the criminal stole.

Manic Moran

[Edit: This post caveated in Post 98]

DUB777 wrote: »

Agreeing with you, ATC wouldn't divert incoming flights so the copper chopper could chase some one. No matter what they did, it'd f#~k up the incoming flights of other aircraft behind them. They'd be taxi'ing i think they call it around the air & if it was a ryanair flight, the schedule would be ****ed for the rest of the day. ATC would have Michael O Leary screaming at them & god knows how many other airlines.

It would f~#k up the rotation mang;)

It's called a 'hold'. They'd either be given avoidance vectors or simply be told to execute the missed approach procedure and be given instructions on re-entering the pattern, depending on where exactly the chopper was.

Actually, it wouldn't screw up the schedule too badly, they have to account for the occasional missed approach which will happen, though more often due to weather. Not always, though, I saw one go-around on Thursday in perfect weather caused when a Lockheed L12A was a little slow getting off the runway and the jet behind went missed after getting down to about 300 feet.

Assuming a similar environment to the US, it's basically at the judgement of the both controller and pilots. A pilot can always veto a controller, the most important word in the pilot's ATC vocabulary is "Unable." (The pilot commands the aircraft, not ATC, remember). This call may be used for reasons other than emergency or mechanical limitation; for example, you're asked to do something you're just not comfortable with (Of course, when you land you may be having a pointed conversation with someone about your judgement if you made an 'unable' response on questionable grounds). [Edit: Begin caveated section]If the chopper crew thought the chase was important enough, he could basically tell ATC he's going through the airspace anyway, to deal with it, and sort out the reprecussions later. I presume the determination level is something that the Air Corps, Gardai and/or ATC have a policy on. (eg Don't say that if you're chasing a guy who stole a handbag, but if you're chasing someone who just killed seven people in a shootout, airline convenience be damned). About the only thing that would overrule that would be if the inbound 'plane had an emergency, at which point air rules indicate that the aircraft in distress has priority.

NTM

sdanseo

DUB777 wrote: »

Agreeing with you, ATC wouldn't divert incoming flights so the copper chopper could chase some one. No matter what they did, it'd f#~k up the incoming flights of other aircraft behind them. They'd be taxi'ing i think they call it around the air & if it was a ryanair flight, the schedule would be ****ed for the rest of the day. ATC would have Michael O Leary screaming at them & god knows how many other airlines.

It would f~#k up the rotation mang;)

ATC will not normally divert any civilian flight to allow E256 (the Garda Helicopter callsign) to operate. I've listened in to Dublin's Tower frequency oodles of times nd you will reguarly hear ATC instructing the chopper to remain clear of the airfield.

goldie fish

Saw one of the Silver Marked Avensis estate in cork last week. Had to do a double take, thought first it was a HSE car for some reason.
Very striking.
Traffic Corps of course.

timmywex

goldie fish wrote: »

Saw one of the Silver Marked Avensis estate in cork last week. Had to do a double take, thought first it was a HSE car for some reason.
Very striking.
Traffic Corps of course.

Theres been one around pearse street garda station aswell the last few days!

Rawhead

This site really amazes me at times. How the colour of a squad car ends up being a pi$$ing contest about a helicopters right to fly over an airport i'll never know.

xflyer

Well let's bring it together!;) Are they going to paint the Garda helis silver too?:D

Haven't seen any silver cars yet. But I'll be you any money I'll see plenty of them now.

On the helicopter point crossing airspace point. ATC will alway refuse crossing clearance if there's a potential conflict. They have their rules they have no choice but to follow. It's then up to the helicopter pilot to decide to ignore ATC should the situation warrant it. But he'll have to justify it later when the proverbial hits the fan. Whether they be painted silver or white!

DUB777

sdonn wrote: »

ATC will not normally divert any civilian flight to allow E256 (the Garda Helicopter callsign) to operate. I've listened in to Dublin's Tower frequency oodles of times nd you will reguarly hear ATC instructing the chopper to remain clear of the airfield.

So what were they doing then? Sitting on the heli-pad munching through a box of donuts each while 2 murderers & a getaway driver escape??

Hogzy

DUB777 wrote: »

So what were they doing then? Sitting on the heli-pad munching through a box of donuts each while 2 murderers & a getaway driver escape??

No, they were taking the long way around so they wouldnt endanger the lives of 300 odd on board whatever plane approaches the runway.
Somethings are more important than catching the crook

DUB777

Hogzy wrote: »

No, they were taking the long way around so they wouldnt endanger the lives of 300 odd on board whatever plane approaches the runway.
Somethings are more important than catching the crook

Well if there is any truth to what a previous poster had said regarding 'hold' and 'unable' then essentially the cops did just let them away with it:D. More important than catching the crookS? I disagree with that, isn't that their purpose on the streets???? Protect and serve & all that b0110x they allegedly stand for?:rolleyes:? And to let a double murder take place & 3 suspects escape:eek:? Come off it? They weren't allowed escape by choice:P. The driver did his job & got them the f#~k outta there. The incompetence of the system & its enforcers just shone through on that case & there are many others like it. They wont be caught at this stage, no evidence at the crime scene bar tapes which dont show them anything. No burnt out car, they've got f~#k all but 2 corpses & a tescos shoddy recording.

Hooch

Back on topic guys.....this thread has nothing to do with helicopters!!!

Thanks

Manic Moran

Back on topic guys.....this thread has nothing to do with helicopters!!!

I'm sorry, but I do need to correct my earlier statement, otherwise I'm leaving bad information up which I don't want to do.

After looking up the details of the 'Unable' call, which is still pilot's ultimate authority, it would not be an appropriate use in the US for a police chase. However, they don't need to. FAA regulations provide that when "Special law enforcement operations [to] include inflight identification, surveillance, interdiction and pursuit activities performed in accordance with official civil and/or military mission responsibilities", a code is used which tells ATC to provide operational priority equivalent to Search and Rescue, which would basically mean ATC needs to do its best to acommodate it. There are also other exemptions to the ATC rules written into the regulations, the only requirement is that the police helicopter notify ATC in advance that it's about to break the 'normal' rules so ATC is not caught on the hop. Routine operations (i.e patrolling) do not trigger the exemptions, but active operations do.

Apologies for the US reference, but I've a US license. I don't know if IAA rules contain a similar provision. Information provided for context/example purposes only.

I return you now to silver cars.

NTM

starviewadams

Saw a silver Traffic Corps estate tearing up Dame Street today,sirens sounded very similar to the DFB ambulances.Very cool looking car!

Zambia

I asked a traffic guy here why the cars are all different colours he said and I quote. 'Resale value'

Yes indeed its a Australian/Victorian highway Patrol guy that told me that , they dont just use silver they use blue orange red black etc they just mark them up and install all the gadgets in them. After x amount of time they hand them back and get new ones. In fact I don't think I ever saw a silver one...

Hooch

Zambia wrote: »

I asked a traffic guy here why the cars are all different colours he said and I quote. 'Resale value'

The real reason here in ireland?? Toyota did not have enough white avensis ready in such a short space of time. There is no policy decision on Traffic cars being silver by management yet. It just worked out that way.

If it was resale value alone......dont you think they would have bought all silver instead of less than 20% silver???