Students Rag Week Trouble

Dan_Solo

fago wrote: »

So a pathetic amount of less the €1.50 per student raised. Not even the price of a drink.

So that's where the charity money raised goes! Only €1.50 to each poor alcohol starved student!

KittyeeTrix

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So that's where the charity money raised goes! Only €1.50 to each poor alcohol starved student!

:D

happyoutscan

Leo Rough Jellybean wrote: »

Its an absolute myth that the likes of the french, italians and germans dont drink like us. I have been on serious drinking sessions with all these nationalities and they dont hold back anymore more than we do.

I've lived in Germany and can tell you that the Germans certainly don't hold back when it comes to drinking beer. Difference is they don't act like like immature morons when doing so.

cheesemaker

barryd09

Nox001 you are either dilluded or winding people on here up.
Either way you havent a clue how the world does & should opperate.

Does anyone know if the 40 arrested are actually facing charges? I really hope so - it will severely dampen their career paths and any intentions of travelling.

Iwannahurl

Leo Rough Jellybean wrote: »

A lot of them think we are absolute legends actually, my Italian friends will be getting drunk with me and my Irish friends all weekend.

Its an absolute myth that the likes of the french, italians and germans dont drink like us. I have been on serious drinking sessions with all these nationalities and they dont hold back anymore more than we do.

Have you a published source for that assertion? The one about French, Italians and Germans, I mean, not the puerile nonsense about "absolute legends".

Ireland has for years been at or near the top of the league for alcohol consumption. Our drinking patterns also tend to be different from other countries with high reported levels of alcohol consumption. For example, we do more episodic/binge drinking and traditionally we have had higher levels of abstention (which means that our relatively high consumption per capita is due to a smaller proportion of drinkers).

People in countries like France, Italy, Spain and Portugal consume a large amount of alcohol (all that wine), but they do so over a larger number of drinking occasions.

The Strategic Task Force on Alcohol reported in 2004 that abstention in Ireland was 2-3 times more common than in other European countries:

In Ireland, 23 per cent of respondents had not consumed any alcohol during the past 12 months. Abstention is more common among women (25%) compared to men (20%) and is higher in the older age group. Compared to the other European countries, abstention is about three times as high as in the two Nordic countries (7%) and around twice the rates seen in the other ECAS-countries.

The STFA's stats as reported in 2004 showed that the reported total alcohol consumption in Ireland was 9.3 litres of pure alcohol per capita per year, but the total consumption per drinker was 12.1 litres. This compared to 11% of abstainers in Italy, 5.3 litres total alcohol consumption and 6 litres per drinker.

Your anecdotal 'evidence', apparently based on nothing more than some "serious drinking sessions" with people from other European countries, does not contradict the population-level data, even if the stats above are from way back in 2004. If the drinking sessions you refer to were in Ireland, I wonder whether your boozin buddies were just following the "when in Rome do as the Romans do" tradition.

happyoutscan

Deleted User wrote: »

Does anyone know if the 40 arrested are actually facing charges? I really hope so - it will severely dampen their career paths and any intentions of travelling.

The majority probably won't, although if its any consolation I've been told a fair few of them were crying like babies when 'inside'. Useless clowns (the drunks, not the Gardai).

happyoutscan

happyoutscan wrote: »

The majority probably won't, although if its any consolation I've been told a fair few of them were crying like babies when 'inside'. Useless clowns (the drunks, not the Gardai).

I really hope they do face charges. Like someone pointed out previously, spending a night in a cell and facing nothing from it will be like a badge of honour, however facing hefty fines and criminal charges could prevent the masses from doing it.

Rareroastbeef

Columc wrote: »

Amhran Nua stop using your ploitics skills and avoid the question and just say why you think that you know everything about the college life and the courses/classes that your ideas being implemented is the ened of rag week.

Colllege is not only about the learning and teaching of an educations, its the life exerpaince as well. Trying to deny that to the students would pretty much having the exact same trasnisition from secondary to university.

This one week in galway is a problem, but has there ever been much of a hassle the rest of the week. Some students want the experiance of binge drinking for 5 days straight, other want the experiance of being arrested, if thats their choice let it be and let the gardai deal with them and have repucations on their decisions!

I've read all the pages up to this point and I have noted all your comments Colum. I have been biting my tongue up to this point but I have to say that your spelling is atrocious for a college educated young man.

A bit of advice: Stop defending the students on the boards, switch off the computer, open a book and catch up on your english grammar. Good man.

cerebus

Rareroastbeef wrote: »

I have to say that your spelling is atrocious for a college educated young man.

A bit of advice: Stop defending the students on the boards, switch off the computer, open a book and catch up on your english grammer. Good man.

johngalway

cerebus wrote: »

Second time this week I've seen that correction corrected :pac:

Amhran Nua

Muphry's law strikes again.

cat_xx

Most of ye seem to think that all students have the same attitude toward "College Week" Clearly its only a minority that go that bit too far. Most of us know how to behave and have a good time. Just Sayin'

Wompa1

cat_xx wrote: »

Most of ye seem to think that all students have the same attitude toward "College Week" Clearly its only a minority that go that bit too far. Most of us know how to behave and have a good time. Just Sayin'

Problem is it's a very vocal minority. Maybe the students who are being labelled as trouble and haven't been acting the tit should do something to redeem themselves and distance themselves from this garbade like petitioning to get any student arrested during the week expelled from the Uni?

Wompa1

Wompa1 wrote: »

Problem is it's a very vocal minority. Maybe the students who are being labelled as trouble and haven't been acting the tit should do something to redeem themselves and distance themselves from this garbade like petitioning to get any student arrested during the week expelled from the Uni?

And the Gardaí should force those arrested to pay for any damages that they may have caused.

Dan_Solo

Columc wrote: »

Straight to violence typical attitude.

Ring the cops, they'll do nothing, curl up into a ball and cry yourself to sleep if you can. Typical attitude.

randylonghorn

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Students are guests in this city ...

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Yes, they are guests. And if guests outstay their welcome, they'll be moved along.

And sure isn't Galway really good to let these "guests" in the gates at all.

Let's move them all along, and have a nice little peaceful city all to ourselves, because obviously no well-brought-up Galway young people ever get drunk, puke, fight, piss in doorways, hassle old people, or do anything in fact to bring anything but a proud smile to their Mammy's faces.

Sure we'll see them all on Paddy's Day, when we will proudly watch as our locals go to mass, parade through the town with their shamrock proudly displayed, then go home for their bacon and cabbage and to listen to a little ceilí music before saying the rosary and an early night. No binge-drinking in this city, no gangs of under-aged youngsters roaming the streets with tinnies and spiked bottles of coke. Not in this city, no sirree!!

Let's consider for a moment the other changes which our ideal peaceful little city would encounter without these nefarious students.

Well, that's 2,200 jobs at NUIG out of the local economy for a start, many of them damn well-paid jobs too. Not so sure of the staff numbers for GMIT, I'd take a guess at 800. So 3,000 people out of work right there.

Then there's all the suppliers who supply the colleges, and rely on them to keep their heads above water. How many jobs would go there without our "guests", I wonder?

There's nearly 25,000 students between the two colleges, but that includes lifelong learning and part-time students, so let's assume the figure of 20,000 full-time students bandied around in this thread is in or around correct. Those students reside in Galway ~9 months of the year, pay for accommodation, eat (albeit probably badly and cheaply), go to pubs and nightclubs, buy the odd bit of clothing / computer games / laptops / books / stationary, etc. How much money does that represent circulating in the Galway economy? How many people directly or indirectly relying on our "guests" for their living?

It looks like there our Utopian peaceful little city will have a lot of people with a lot of leisure to appreciate it without our "guests" to disturb them, pity most of them will be on the dole.

Look, let me make something clear.

I am not defending nor do I condone anti-social behaviour, whether it's from students or locals.

Setting fires, hassling the Emergency Services or elderly people, damaging cars ... any and all such behaviour should be stamped on and stamped on hard.

And I do kind of agree that many of the children of the Celtic Diseased Kitten seem to have been brought up with a huge sense of entitlement and an under-developed sense of responsibility (Irish parents, including Galway parents, perhaps a few moments of examination of conscience would be timely? ... 'tis almost Lent, after all!)

But let's not delude ourselves that 20,000 students, or anything but what is statistically a relatively small minority of them, are involved in fires and bullying old people and vandalism. And let's not delude ourselves either that our own local young people (presumably not "guests") are all angels either. I worked as a youth worker in this city; I don't have the luxury of believing that kind of pie in the sky.

For that matter, how many of these "guests" (i.e. students) are themselves from Galway city or damn close by? A minority certainly, but a sizable minority all the same.

Somewhat at a tangent, and certainly subjective, but the only Rag Week incident I have *personally* been the victim of is when I arrived home one night to find a young (~18) male simultaneously and with equally bad aim puking and pissing in my front doorway. I realised as I looked at him in disgust that I knew him; he wasn't in college (didn't get the points); he worked (kind of) in his father's business in town. Family quite well off, Salthill direction, pillars of the local community. But had I not recognised him, he would have been another student "guest" defiling the face of our noble city.

There are tools among the students, yes. There are also tools among our local youth, and they gleefully hide behind the students' skirts during Rag week. There are tools among the Paddy's Day and Race Week crowd, and many of those are home-grown too, and old enough to know better.

Let's deal with the tools, rather than labelling a whole grouping. Let's stamp out extreme anti-social behaviour wherever it emanates from, rather than blathering on about students being "guests" who should thank us for letting them into our city.

I'm a fair few years past my student days, and have lived and worked in this city, and that attitude in Galway that "students" are at the root of so many of the city's problems, and how we really are a long-suffering saintly bunch to put up with them at all, still grinds my fecking gears!!!

Amhran Nua wrote: »

GMIT does roll calls and attendance lists. You posted in a thread about it a few months ago.

And it never seems to have dampened the Rag Week up there, I've seen many complaints on Boards over the years that GMIT Rag Week caused more problems than NUIG's. Seems to be the other way round this year, admittedly.

LucyBliss wrote: »

There's a little too much emphasis on drinking and going to be pub as the main social activities in this country.

Absolutely, Lucy.

It's unfortunately a culture which permeates all generations and all demographics.

By the way, congratulations on some very measured and valid contributions to this thread which stand out among the tosh being spouted by the extremists on both sides.

skelliser wrote: »

just ban the thing, its clear the few have ruined it on the many.

Will that actually help?

Years ago, most events were centred on campus, they would get a marquee in, etc. There was far less trouble in the city (or indeed on campus). Then pressure was put on college because of the few very minor incidents (in the context of the incidents reported here) and college banned the marquee and a lot of the activities on campus in response.

Then the clubs in town started doing all-day events, it kept the students off the streets for the most part, but people still complained, pressure was put on, to a great extent they stopped doing it.

So now (reading this thread) it seems to have moved (for lack of an alternative) to student housing and nearby open spaces.

And each time people point out that the problem is getting worse, not better.

And I suspect that banning it completely will just make it worse again, because what will probably happen will be a completely unofficial week, and as I see the pattern, the more it has been forced underground, and the more it has been forced from controlled environments to uncontrolled ones, the greater have the problems become.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Let the clubs open at 10am as long as they do food in there and when they are absolutely rotten after a day drinking they will inevitably crawl home quietly....even if that is at 7pm. This idea of closing everything that isn't already bankrupt and basically converting the whole week into a giant bush drinking festival is evidently not working.

I tend to agree, tbh.

The problem seems to be that those who cause the trouble aren't being penalized for it. They need to bring in on-the-spot fines and the like. Guaranteed that would put a halt to gobsh1te behaviour.

Amhran Nua

randylonghorn wrote: »

Let's deal with the tools, rather than labelling a whole grouping.

Yeah, that's pretty much what everyone has been saying all along, including myself. Also, it's not like students are attending NUIG and keeping all those people in employment out of the goodness of their hearts. In fact, they aren't keeping them in employment at all, its the Irish taxpayer and a decent input from foreign students doing that.

Nice rant though.

skelliser

i dont accept that if it were banned that there would be a unofficial one organised!
by who?

i sincerly doubt it would happen.

MissMoppet

randylonghorn wrote: »

And sure isn't Galway really good to let these "guests" in the gates at all.

Let's move them all along, and have a nice little peaceful city all to ourselves, because obviously no well-brought-up Galway young people ever get drunk, puke, fight, piss in doorways, hassle old people, or do anything in fact to bring anything but a proud smile to their Mammy's faces.

Sure we'll see them all on Paddy's Day, when we will proudly watch as our locals go to mass, parade through the town with their shamrock proudly displayed, then go home for their bacon and cabbage and to listen to a little ceilí music before saying the rosary and an early night. No binge-drinking in this city, no gangs of under-aged youngsters roaming the streets with tinnies and spiked bottles of coke. Not in this city, no sirree!!

Let's consider for a moment the other changes which our ideal peaceful little city would encounter without these nefarious students.

Well, that's 2,200 jobs at NUIG out of the local economy for a start, many of them damn well-paid jobs too. Not so sure of the staff numbers for GMIT, I'd take a guess at 800. So 3,000 people out of work right there.

Then there's all the suppliers who supply the colleges, and rely on them to keep their heads above water. How many jobs would go there without our "guests", I wonder?

There's nearly 25,000 students between the two colleges, but that includes lifelong learning and part-time students, so let's assume the figure of 20,000 full-time students bandied around in this thread is in or around correct. Those students reside in Galway ~9 months of the year, pay for accommodation, eat (albeit probably badly and cheaply), go to pubs and nightclubs, buy the odd bit of clothing / computer games / laptops / books / stationary, etc. How much money does that represent circulating in the Galway economy? How many people directly or indirectly relying on our "guests" for their living?

It looks like there our Utopian peaceful little city will have a lot of people with a lot of leisure to appreciate it without our "guests" to disturb them, pity most of them will be on the dole.

Look, let me make something clear.

I am not defending nor do I condone anti-social behaviour, whether it's from students or locals.

Setting fires, hassling the Emergency Services or elderly people, damaging cars ... any and all such behaviour should be stamped on and stamped on hard.

And I do kind of agree that many of the children of the Celtic Diseased Kitten seem to have been brought up with a huge sense of entitlement and an under-developed sense of responsibility (Irish parents, including Galway parents, perhaps a few moments of examination of conscience would be timely? ... 'tis almost Lent, after all!)

But let's not delude ourselves that 20,000 students, or anything but what is statistically a relatively small minority of them, are involved in fires and bullying old people and vandalism. And let's not delude ourselves either that our own local young people (presumably not "guests") are all angels either. I worked as a youth worker in this city; I don't have the luxury of believing that kind of pie in the sky.

For that matter, how many of these "guests" (i.e. students) are themselves from Galway city or damn close by? A minority certainly, but a sizable minority all the same.

Somewhat at a tangent, and certainly subjective, but the only Rag Week incident I have *personally* been the victim of is when I arrived home one night to find a young (~18) male simultaneously and with equally bad aim puking and pissing in my front doorway. I realised as I looked at him in disgust that I knew him; he wasn't in college (didn't get the points); he worked (kind of) in his father's business in town. Family quite well off, Salthill direction, pillars of the local community. But had I not recognised him, he would have been another student "guest" defiling the face of our noble city.

There are tools among the students, yes. There are also tools among our local youth, and they gleefully hide behind the students' skirts during Rag week. There are tools among the Paddy's Day and Race Week crowd, and many of those are home-grown too, and old enough to know better.

Let's deal with the tools, rather than labelling a whole grouping. Let's stamp out extreme anti-social behaviour wherever it emanates from, rather than blathering on about students being "guests" who should thank us for letting them into our city.

I'm a fair few years past my student days, and have lived and worked in this city, and that attitude in Galway that "students" are at the root of so many of the city's problems, and how we really are a long-suffering saintly bunch to put up with them at all, still grinds my fecking gears!!!

And it never seems to have dampened the Rag Week up there, I've seen many complaints on Boards over the years that GMIT Rag Week caused more problems than NUIG's. Seems to be the other way round this year, admittedly.

Absolutely, Lucy.

It's unfortunately a culture which permeates all generations and all demographics.

By the way, congratulations on some very measured and valid contributions to this thread which stand out among the tosh being spouted by the extremists on both sides.

Will that actually help?

Years ago, most events were centred on campus, they would get a marquee in, etc. There was far less trouble in the city (or indeed on campus). Then pressure was put on college because of the few very minor incidents (in the context of the incidents reported here) and college banned the marquee and a lot of the activities on campus in response.

Then the clubs in town started doing all-day events, it kept the students off the streets for the most part, but people still complained, pressure was put on, to a great extent they stopped doing it.

So now (reading this thread) it seems to have moved (for lack of an alternative) to student housing and nearby open spaces.

And each time people point out that the problem is getting worse, not better.

And I suspect that banning it completely will just make it worse again, because what will probably happen will be a completely unofficial week, and as I see the pattern, the more it has been forced underground, and the more it has been forced from controlled environments to uncontrolled ones, the greater have the problems become.

I tend to agree, tbh.

Thanks for sticking up for us students. We really aren't all bad.

randylonghorn

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Yeah, that's pretty much what everyone has been saying all along, including myself. Also, it's not like students are attending NUIG and keeping all those people in employment out of the goodness of their hearts. In fact, they aren't keeping them in employment at all, its the Irish taxpayer and a decent input from foreign students doing that.

Firstly, I never said they were doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

Secondly, while the Irish taxpayer certainly subsidises third-level education significantly, most students (and/or their parents) incur significant additional costs to see them through college. Let's also remember that most of those parents are also Irish taxpayers, just like you and me, and through their taxes supported previous cohorts of students and will support future cohorts who do not include their own offspring ... as will the taxes of the students themselves in the future.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Nice rant though.

Really, Amhran Nua?

Given your posts in this and in previous threads where we have encountered one another, you really feel able to patronise me for ranting?

Such a lack of self-awareness must make life in general, and in particular your interaction on internet forums, very easy!

InchicoreDude

i dont accept that if it were banned that there would be a unofficial one organised!
by who?

i sincerly doubt it would happen.

GMIT Rag week would become Galway rag week.

And then you might see real trouble!

ciano1

Somebody would probably organise it on facebook for some random week!

Diabhal Beag

ciano1 wrote: »

Somebody would probably organise it on facebook for some random week!

Say they'd keep it in the 2 week span but no matter what it will always go ahead.

randylonghorn

skelliser wrote: »

i dont accept that if it were banned that there would be a unofficial one organised!
by who?

I don't think it would be "organised" at all, skelliser, I think that would be a lot of the problem. The three posts above though give a hint of how an unorganised and unofficial Rag Week would simply be designated.

My basic point was that the less it has been organised and official and centrally overseen, the worse the problems have become.

Driving it completely underground might only serve to escalate those still further, imho.

Amhran Nua

randylonghorn wrote: »

Secondly, while the Irish taxpayer certainly subsidises third-level education significantly, most students (and/or their parents) incur significant additional costs to see them through college.

Would you care to hazard a guess as to how much of the actual cost of their educational fees they are paying? I'm completely opposed to fees for third level education, as an unrelated aside.

randylonghorn wrote: »

Let's also remember that most of those parents are also Irish taxpayers, just like you and me, and through their taxes supported previous cohorts of students and will support future cohorts who do not include their own offspring ... as will the taxes of the students themselves in the future.

Assuming they don't wash out with a conviction on public disorder charges. Which brings us neatly to the actual point here. In your zeal to defend twenty thousand strangers you have overlooked again that nobody is blaming the student body as a whole. I have specifically stated as much many times with regard to my comments.

What people are doing is accepting that there is a real problem here, and discussing ways to address that problem, If you feel you have something constructive to add to that discussion rather than rehashing points already well covered, with an added veneer of heavy handed sarcasm for good measure, I'm sure that would be welcomed by all.

randylonghorn wrote: »

Really, Amhran Nua?

Given your posts in this and in previous threads where we have encountered one another, you really feel able to patronise me for ranting?

Such a lack of self-awareness must make life in general, and in particular your interaction on internet forums, very easy!

Normally if I have a problem with a situation (and my, how many situations are problematic in this country) I am able to enunciate clearly what that problem is and what I think should be done about it. I don't go off half cocked and lay about me with the ad hominems. And I would include discussions about student fees in that particular roll call.

Alternatively, I believe there is a ranting and raving forum to cater for general venting.

Edit: I don't actually recall ever encountering you.

randylonghorn

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Would you care to hazard a guess as to how much of the actual cost of their educational fees they are paying? I'm completely opposed to fees for third level education, as an unrelated aside.

I wouldn't have to hazard a guess, but I spoke of costs incurred by students and their families, not just of fees, even in my last post ... even if undergraduate students paid full economic fees rather than just the Student Contribution Fee or whatever they're calling it now, that would only represent about half the costs incurred by the (non-grant-aided) student / their family each year.

In my first and main post, I didn't refer to either student fees or the overall costs to each student of attending college, I discussed rather the contribution of the students and of the colleges to the local economy.

So you're right, this is a completely unrelated aside.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Assuming they don't wash out with a conviction on public disorder charges. Which brings us neatly to the actual point here. In your zeal to defend twenty thousand strangers you have overlooked again that nobody is blaming the student body as a whole. I have specifically stated as much many times with regard to my comments.

Actually, I didn't defend 20,000 students, I defended the majority of them and roundly condemned the minority who cause problems.

I also registered my ongoing distaste for the underlying attitude that sees those 20,000 students as "guests" or "strangers" in our city who should feel grateful to us for letting them inside our (in modern times) metaphorical walls, like the "wild Irish" of yore. Perhaps if those students were encouraged to feel more a part of the community of our city, they might show more respect for it?

Amhran Nua wrote: »

What people are doing is accepting that there is a real problem here, and discussing ways to address that problem, If you feel you have something constructive to add to that discussion rather than rehashing points already well covered, with an added veneer of heavy handed sarcasm for good measure, I'm sure that would be welcomed by all.

Actually, I suggested several ways to address the problem:

1) Target the anti-social behaviour and its perpetrators, regardless of whether they are students or locals (or local students) and stamp on both hard.

2) Stop thinking of students as "guests" who we are graciously favouring by allowing them into Galway.

3) Consider the possibility that the various steps so far to de-centralise RAG / College Week from the campus, and to distance the college from it, have only served to exacerbate the problems rather than solve them.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Normally if I have a problem with a situation (and my, how many situations are problematic in this country) I am able to enunciate clearly what that problem is and what I think should be done about it. I don't go off half cocked and lay about me with the ad hominems. And I would include discussions about student fees in that particular roll call.

You would be right. But then, as I pointed out above, *I* never raised the issue of student fees in my original post. I did, however, and in a somewhat satirical vein, raise the issue of the contribution which the very existence of 20,000 of these "guests" in our city makes to the local economy, and point out that Galway would be a much poorer place without them.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Alternatively, I believe there is a ranting and raving forum to cater for general venting.

There is, but then I wasn't generally venting, I was addressing issues raised by this thread.

Perhaps I should suggest to you when next you go on a tirade about the "bald incompetence" and possible "malfeasance" of senior civil servants in failing to advise their ministers properly during the boom; nay, their failure, should they have actually given the right advice, to wilfully disobey the "unlawful" orders of the democratically elected government if they failed to take that advice, to take it to Ranting and Raving Forum rather than the Politics forum?

Or perhaps I will leave it to the moderators of the various forums to decide what is appropriate for those forums, given that such is a part of their task.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Edit: I don't actually recall ever encountering you.

Luckily, I am of strong enough character to live with that, despite the undoubted pain it causes me!

Amhran Nua

randylonghorn wrote: »

I also registered my ongoing distaste for the underlying attitude that sees those 20,000 students as "guests" or "strangers" in our city who should feel grateful to us for letting them inside our (in modern times) metaphorical walls, like the "wild Irish" of yore.

If you had read the thread, you would understand that these sentiments were expressed as a rebuttal to comments like "sure what does it matter if they cause a half million damage, they bring millions to the city, ye're lucky they don't do worse".

randylonghorn wrote: »

Actually, I suggested several ways to address the problem:

1) Target the anti-social behaviour and its perpetrators, regardless of whether they are students or locals (or local students) and stamp on both hard.

2) Stop thinking of students as "guests" who we are graciously favouring by allowing them into Galway.

3) Consider the possibility that the various steps so far to de-centralise RAG / College Week from the campus, and to distance the college from it, have only served to exacerbate the problems rather than solve them.

1, already dealt with, 2, explained above, 3, agreed, with the caveat that no matter which way the uni turns things seem to be getting worse.

randylonghorn wrote: »

You would be right. But then, as I pointed out above, *I* never raised the issue of student fees in my original post. I did, however, and in a somewhat satirical vein, raise the issue of the contribution which the very existence of 20,000 of these "guests" in our city makes to the local economy, and point out that Galway would be a much poorer place without them.

Galway would not be a much poorer place without the troublemakers, as distinct from the general student body. But I have already said this several times in the thread.

randylonghorn wrote: »

There is, but then I wasn't generally venting, I was addressing issues raised by this thread.

From your comments, you haven't in fact read the thread.

randylonghorn wrote: »

Perhaps I should suggest to you when next you go on a tirade about the "bald incompetence" and possible "malfeasance" of senior civil servants in failing to advise their ministers properly during the boom; nay, their failure, should they have actually given the right advice, to wilfully disobey the "unlawful" orders of the democratically elected government if they failed to take that advice, to take it to Ranting and Raving Forum rather than the Politics forum?

Wow. With a €630,000 payoff to former financial regulator Neary and the only answer to the cabinet's feeble protests a middle finger raised as he sailed off into the sunset, you're bringing up the civil service in this thread? One might almost be convinced you're holding some sort of grudge and are using the poor students as an excuse to exercise it. Please keep on topic here.

randylonghorn wrote: »

Luckily, I am of strong enough character to live with that, despite the undoubted pain it causes me!

Again, if you can't be constructive, I don't see why you'd bother.